@JayHawkFanToo Agreed. He is a 2nd tier P5 conference coach. A guy that a football school like KSU should not steer away from. Give him support and I think he will be successful every 4 or 5 years. The other years, just mediocre. But mediocre is good. Shooting for the stars with gamble hires is what sets programs back years. Bruce is a proven coach that won't go 5-25. Probably not even 10-20. Frank Martin's and Dana Altman's don't grow on trees. It is KSU's fault for letting those two get away. Now they are stuck with a Bruce. And should be happy the program is in as good of shape as it is.
Kcmatt7
11050 posts
@Crimsonorblue22 Do I think what?
Just because you aren't allowed doesn't mean it isn't easy to get one in. They make plastic guns and bullets made of copper, brass and lead don't set off metal detectors... Personally, I'd much rather a gun be allowed in games than not. After what happened in France and at other public places, seems like the only real way to protect yourself.
@JayHawkFanToo And Frank has more control of his destiny if he is undrafted than pick #60. He is bound to 1 team with no leverage if he gets drafted late 2nd round like most mocks have him.
That's all I'm saying.
If he can go early 2nd or late 1st somehow, than absolutely I want him to get drafted.
@JayHawkFanToo Yea who is now on his 3rd team in only 6 seasons.... He finished 30 games under .500 3 years with Sacremento. He then signed with Phoenix and they started Bledsoe over him. Didn't even make it a season before he was traded to Boston. Someone finally gave IT a chance.
Maybe Frank can just skip the first two teams and pick the right team the first go around. And not end up in contract hell like IT is.
@BeddieKU23 I hope Frank doesn't get drafted. I'd rather him pick where he wants to go and where his agent thinks he could make a roster. It really is almost better to end up as one of the top undrafted players than drafted late in the 2nd round.
@BShark Yea doesn't sound great. He was in foul trouble all the time though. I don't know if that is the league the play in or his style or what. But you don't get to play aggressive defense when in foul trouble.
I am confident he can't have any worse of a jump shot than Withey or LL. So Bill knows how to work around that. Not that we even need him to make a jump shot with the perimeter we will have around him. Just finish layups. If LL could do that he would have been a 12 ppg player.
The truth could be that Whitman didn't fit with the W&M coach. Either personality-wise or schematically.
If you look at their stats, they weren't a balanced team and played a slow pace. So they basically played a two man game. And Jack, the most efficient scorer, only took the 5th most shots on the team.
If LL is the standard for comparison, Jack could be a solid rotation piece. He scored more points in less minutes than Lucas. He also shot a better 2pt% and blocked just as many shots.
He also had a better box plus minus than the other post who started and took 13 shots a game. He seems like an overall positive addition if you look at what we are asking him to do.
@Statmachine I watched a couple of those games too. There is a lot to think about. His two knocks are that he struggles defensively and he lacks in-game confidence.
I think staying at KU provides him with the greater upside. If he can shake his constant deer in the headlights look that he gets playing in front of 12k people, he will be better for it. I also think he will be asked to guard much better athletes in D1 college BB than in Europe.
On the other hand, maybe he does need a tune up year or two where he is forced into an alpha role and can play with a reckless abandon because he is the best or 2nd best player on a team in Europe.
I think it is a greater financial risk to go play in Europe next season. European contracts are notoriously terrible for athletes that aren't elite. And, what if he doesn't get good minutes for a team in Europe? His value only plummets even further. The most likely rout for him to make the most money is most likely to stay one more year at KU. But that's my opinion...
@wrwlumpy about what I would have guessed him to be at.
He has too much game film to be able to get drafted on workouts and potential . He has to develop his game this summer and come back next year as an efficient, aggressive scorer and an adequate defender. He has the tools and size, he just needs it all to click.
@Statmachine I get what you are saying.
I don't think the Shoe company thing runs as deep as Jaybate. But I believe in it to an extent for sure.
Nike isn't going to be mad that Kevin Durant chooses UT over UK. But they are going to give UK anything and everything they need support-wise to ensure that UK never stops producing a profit. Just like Adidas does with KU.
@Statmachine You have two stores.
Store A is on the Vegas strip and will outsell your other store 100% of the time. Even in a down year, it will outsell your other store. The coldest of winters wouldn't keep enough people away from Vegas for Store B to outsell Store A.
Store B is in a pretty solid location as well. But not the Vegas strip. In very good year (national championship/Final Four) it can make close to as much as your Vegas store, but in a bad year it may very well lose money.
You can either send your best employees to Store A or Store B. In this scenario, wouldn't you send your employees to Store B? So that way the store performs very well and you make more money? Because you know that Store A is going to sell that much anyways, regardless of how the employees perform.
UK needs to be good at basketball for Nike to be profitable. UT doesn't. Especially with UK getting a lot more highly rated nationally televised games getting Nike 10X the exposure for their future pros that they hope to sell signature shoes of and profit off of in the long-term.
@Statmachine UT might not sell basketball specific gear. And their attendance to basketball games has been less than stellar even during great seasons.
Kentucky doubles Texas in attendance at basketball games. Texas only averages 12k in a 16.6k stadium
UK averages 23.3k in a 23.5k stadium. So UK probably sells much more basketball gear. And gets the ESPN press. And is in a better sports time-zone.
A lot more to think about than just who sells the most gear.
@Statmachine That only has to do with merchandise sold.
Is a player worth higher TV ratings if he plays for Texas or Kentucky? Does UT sell as much basketball specific apparel as UK?
It isn't about the merch contracts, it is about selling the most amount of merch as a whole.
The talent deficiency from Duke to UNC is none.
The talent deficiency from UCLA to Arizona is none.
The talent deficiency from KU to Texas, its a lot. Despite what their recruiting rankings say.
Just go look through the top players that have come out of the state of Texas and gone to Kentucky lately. KU and the Big XII as a conference need UT to defend it's own recruiting grounds. And they aren't right now.
@brooksmd totally agree. Michael Jordan didn't stop adding to his game just because he won a championship. Those three just seem to be content with who they are.
@Statmachine We will have NBA type talent at all 5 starting positions for the first time in a really long time. This is a better constructed roster than people realize.
Although, I do get what @KUSTEVE is saying. Problem is and always will be that when UT sucks and can't even recruit Texas than the Big XII will look weak.
UT is swimming in cash, yet they can't field a good basketball team. Shaka was a bad hire. With all the money in the world, they couldn't steal a Sean Miller from Arizona?
UT athletics is a mess. Until they get their shit together the Big XII will suffer. Especially in the next round of TV negotiations.
@brooksmd His problem is he has a mechanically flawed swing and is too stubborn to fix it.
He should be a guy who hits .300 with 30+ HR a season. Our MVP level guy. But the Royals rushed him through the minors and didn't change his swing in the process. He has a LOOOOONG swing and this season has had a very wild left elbow early in this season. The long swing causes a harder, faster hip rotation. That results in him rolling over and driving a ground ball right to the 2B man. Drives me bonkers. Should have been fixed 8 years ago in the minors and we would have a .300 hitter who also drops 30+ bombs.
Olynyk got what he wanted.
There is smart dirty and dumb dirty. Smart Dirty players know how to get away with things, or do something that just piss other players off. This is the reaction that they want. Oubre gave Olynyk exactly what he wanted.
Dumb dirty players, well, just look for Grayson Allen as exhibit A. Morris Twins for B and C.
Realistically, Hosmer has about $15M worth of value over 4 years. Maybe 5. He is a durable guy who plays solid D and will most likely hit .270 and 20 HR. Don't see that changing anytime soon. If he played like this the rest of the season, he'd still hit .250 with 15 HR. If the entire team could do that we would win the World Series.
@wissox How many of the 162 games do you watch? How many do you go to? How many games of teams that aren't your team do you watch?
Then ask, how many KU basketball games do you watch? How many NFL games do you watch on Sundays? Do you watch every inning of playoff baseball when your team isn't in it?
The problem is, baseball doesn't get viewership during the season. I watched like 80% of NFL games this year and 100% of the ones I could get on TV. I watched every KU game, and even other teams games. I watched 2 or 3 college football games every Saturday.
The NBA has the same problem. They can't get anyone to watch until the Conference Finals. The season is too long. Best of 7 is too long when I know the Cavs will win a 7 game series everytime in the first two rounds. So I don't watch.
Baseball can have that same affect. I watch probably 25% of the Royals games live and just read about it in 5 minutes the next day. Always have, even when they were good. Even when they were a perennial 100 loss team. It is too much baseball to consume all of it. Even shortening the season down to 81, that is too many games to watch all of them.
But that is just my opinion.
@JayHawkFanToo I thought so too, but it is on the state website usually so most reports are pretty factual.
CBS podcast with Garry Parrish is a good CBB one.
Pod Save America is another good one if you're feeling politics. Left leaning, just an fyi. But interesting and entertaining.
Pardon My Take always has good guests on.
If this redshirt transfer season goes well, we set ourselves up a nice little recruiting pipeline. In theory we could have 4 from the Lawson family on one team right? Providing Dedric doesn't turn pro after his first year here and they are as tight with their cousin as a lot of people believe.
A lot of distractions on that campus though... Hope he can keep his head on straight. I'll definitely be rooting for the guy.
New just came in. Apparently we traded Bragg for Cunliffe.
Also poking a hole in my "volunteer player."
They have own rules that allow the women's team to use guys.
@mayjay I don't see that here.
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/lou/genrel/auto_pdf/comp-rules-managers.pdf ↗
@mayjay Idk, the "managers" get to...
@dylans the only reason I say it might be worth it, is that they wouldn't have to go to class that year.
It would be a strictly basketball year for them, and a business decision that is much more long-term. Dedric is a 1st round pick if he can put together an 18 pts and 10 rbs season and improve his athleticism a little bit. KJ is ROUGH. A year of dedicated basketball might be just what the doctor ordered.
Currently, they will have to take a full 12 hours at the very least. Daily practice time is limited per NCAA rules. If they weren't technically on the roster this year, they could practice all they wanted... Without school. And neither of them needs more classes as this will be their 3rd year of classes and they have 2 more eligible semesters. If they want their degree they have plenty of time to get it for free.
It would be an intriguing thought for the family. I'm sure you are right that this probably won't happen, I'm just pointing out that it is a much more attractive choice than it first seems.
@dylans I stand corrected.
But that is still enough money to pay $10-12K for one season. If it would even be that much.
@BeddieKU23 I only bring that one up because they have similar stat lines at that lower level and both seem to be fairly coordinated guys with high BBIQ.
@dylans He made $250k the two previous seasons.
Also, by self-pay, I mean pay for one class. Could be bowling. Which should allow them to be a "volunteer" practice player, much like women's basketball teams use volunteers from the student population in practice. It would only cost like $400 for the one class and then whatever housing costs...
I almost think that is an amazing selling point. Hey, take one class during your year off and focus on nothing but basketball. Dedric can live in the weight room with Hudy and get his athleticism to where it needs to be. They don't have to focus on school at all this year, just prepping for a breakout season in 2018.
@HighEliteMajor Agreed. I'm pretty sure I did a ton of analysis two years ago trying to see if there was a way stats could prove LL was our most effective post player. Couldn't find anything to support it, and actually saw that Diallo was more effective per minute than LL. Significantly more effective...
I wish we had played Diallo more. But I think I'm in the minority with that.
@BeddieKU23 Kevin Young 2.0?
I still think the most viable option for making room for someone is that one or both Lawson's are Self-pay guys this year. It might cost them a total of $15k.
Svi might even be able to do Self-pay to come back. That could always have been Bills condition. If I run out of scholarships before you come back you pay out of pocket.
Sorry that is a little rough to read. I copy and pasted from a couple of posts. But you can get the gist.
@mayjay I posted this on another board.
NCAA BYLAW 15.02.4.2 EXEMPTED INSTITUTIONAL AID The following institutional financial aid is exempt and is not counted in determining a student-athlete's full grant-in-aid or cost of attendance, or in the institution's financial aid limitations:
(e) A postgraduate scholarship awarded by an institution in accordance with Bylaw 16.1.3.1.1; (Adopted: 1/10/05)
As long as it is in accordance with other scholarships given out for the same degree he is seeking at that institution and it his athletics have no basis on the scholarship, it is exempt. There is also a part where it says that if he is part of a research grant, that is also exempt. If he were to do research as part of his degree, such as a fellowship (which many schools provide) he would be allowed to be exempt. With his degree being in the medical field, those are all options.
There are a lot of options for Grad programs. A Grad-Assistant in a non-basketball related program would cover it fully. If he were to do research, that would also cover it. Another option is a "fellowship." There are tons of options.
I'm not saying he will get one. I'm saying it is possible. We could have taken him because he was the best option available and Tilmon and Svi both said they weren't going to be here next year. But, there are options.
We are in a very very rare scenario where we could actually have more players than scholarships. Most teams can only field 13 players that MIGHT be worth a scholarship With 3 transfers sitting out, we are in a scenario to fill a roster with a potential of 15 players worthy of a scholarship. It might be time to get creative...
@BShark I can already tell I like that family. I hope that is the case. I expect him to shoot up the boards soon. And, I like when we can have those telepathic connections.
Well, we have quite the roster conundrum at this point. Our "13 scholarships" are currently divided this way:
- 1: DG
- 2: Newman
- 3: Cunfliffe - Eligible 2nd Semester
- 4: Doke
- 5: Garrett
- 6: Coleby
- 7: Lightfoot
- 8: Vick
- 9: Preston
- 10: Jack Whitman - Grad transfer
- 11: D-Law
- 12: K-Law
- 13: Moore
But, are we REALLY out of scholarships? Out of the race against Mizzou for Tilmon? We can't get Svi back anymore?
I don't think so. What if we have our cake and eat it too? It appears as though we have a lot of options:
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Jack Whitman went to William & Mary. I have no idea if the same admissions standards are expected out of athletes, but I'm sure there are at least above average standards. It could be possible for Whitman to be on an Academic Scholarship. His father went to Vandy and his brother went to Harvard. So I think this is pretty academically focused family. And probably a successful one at that. He very well could be a self-pay.
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One of the Lawson's is a self-pay. Their father made a pretty penny the last 3 years as an assistant coach.
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One of the Lawson's or Moore is a "student manager." They don't play, but they practice. The school would then be allowed to pay them, providing they do perform managerial duties. And, they wouldn't have to even be enrolled in school full-time if I'm not mistaken. They could take 1 class and still be able to. We did something similar with Svi and Coleby during the University games so they could practice with the team all summer.
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The Lawson's live together in a house. Whichever one is on scholarship will get a stipend for housing to essentially pay rent for both and they will live off campus together. "Rent" would probably pretty cheap if I was guessing... The one not on scholarship will take a 1 credit hour class called "Hudyizing" and also be a "volunteer" practice player. Women's basketball team uses male students to practice against. Seems like that would still be within the rules...
These are the ideas I have... Feel free to add or poke holes. I think the thought that we could wiggle our way into 2 more open scholarships doesn't close the door on Svi or Tilmon yet. I don't think the NCAA rules are quite up to date with the current transfer increase, and we might be able to find some serious wiggle room and squeeze 15 guys onto our squad this season. If Whitman is indeed on Academic scholarship, Bill might just be an evil genius...
@KUSTEVE He's a little springy isn't he? Appears to me the only reason he couldn't score 15-20 ppg for W&M was because he has foul issues.
Posted in the recruiting thread, but thought it could go here as well.
Also, just to add more information, he played in the Colonial Conference. Sagarin ranked that as the 13th best conference out of 34. And William & Mary was the 4th best team. William & Mary had the 108 toughest schedule out of 351 teams. . So he didn’t play amazing competition, but he could have definitely played worse.
In the 10 games that Whitman played vs. RPI top 100 opponents:
!0_1493756745437_Whitman vs top 100.JPG ↗
I think that is about what we should probably expect out of the guy most nights.
@BShark I saw the Shiver was having a hissy fit. I'd be worried if he wasn't efficient. But to me, a guy with some skill around the basket who blocks a shot or two a game is nothing to snub.
@jayballer54 We might not be landing flashy pieces, but we have a sneaky good roster. Starting, we will have 3 McDAA. The other two guys were popping up on draft boards last year. Off the bench, we have two top 100 - 6'5 guards and now a post player that averaged 10 and 6 in 22 minutes.
Also, just to add more information, he played in the Colonial Conference. Sagarin ranked that as the 13th best conference out of 34. And William & Mary was the 4th best team. William & Mary had the 108 toughest schedule out of 351 teams. . So he didn't play amazing competition, but he could have definitely played worse.
In the 10 games that Whitman played vs. RPI top 100 opponents:
!0_1493756416116_Whitman vs top 100.JPG ↗
I think that is about what we should probably expect out of the guy most nights.
@HighEliteMajor I only used the Per 40 because it is easier to compare players than just saying he was a 10 and 6 player.
@jayballer54 There are a lot of work-arounds to scholarships in our current situation, I believe.
One of the Lawson's could literally take just one "class" that happens to be at the weight room with Hudy. And then be a "volunteer" practice player. The women's team brings in male practice players from the student population. We could do the same thing. Easily. I expect us to have 14 scholarship players on 13 scholarships this year one way or another.
@jayballer54 I wouldn't say that quite yet. Still pieces to fall. This, to me, looks like a pickup for a 4 and a sign that Svi isn't coming back.
Gives us 5 guards, 2 PFs and still only 1 C. We need Tilmon.
As far as scholarships, those will work themselves out. I still think there is a chance that a Lawson could be a self-pay for one season. Or somehow be a "student manager" for the season and still practice and get paid. They did that with Svi and Coleby during the University games exhibitions so that they could practice over the summer with the rest of the team. They literally had to wear different clothes than the team that matched the managers to be in compliance.
@Crimsonorblue22 I haven't seen him play or heard of him. I know we try to compare a lot of guys to Kevin Young, but this guy sounds like Kevin Young. Efficient scorer, decent passer for a big man, decent rebounder, gets to the free throw line.
@Crimsonorblue22 Looks like a depth pickup. Grad Transfer. Had an extremely efficient season last year shooting 66% from the field.
Jack Whitman Per 40 line:
- 18 Points
- 9.8 Rebounds
- 2.1 Blocks
- 60% from the FT line
@mayjay I'm not sure. It isn't like they are giving away plays or gameplans to other teams. If you were an opposing coach or program, what info do you gain from what he told me? A backup big who could get 10 minutes a game might transfer and one of our players who is a 6'6 power forward sucks? Most could assume it. I know I predicted a Coleby transfer months ago. And it might not even happen.
The majority of things I get from him are who we are recruiting harder or how visits went. Rarely do we have a roster conundrum like this, so it isn't an issue.