I worry that he'll have a hard time playing pro ball in the post at his size...totally agree on the skills camp. He needs to attend Moving Away from the Post Camp with breakout sessions on Getting a Jumpshot & Building a Midrange Game.
ajvan
398 posts
@Crimsonorblue22 B-Mac, Traylor, exactly! Overcoming adversity and refusing to quit. @drgnslayr I can't wait for Self to write his own book on the topic so Bilas' can fade into obscurity. Of course, there's gotta be a place for white collar toughness too...but Bilas is not that place.
@wrwlumpy It took me about three seconds to think that through and nod my head in agreement.
@Crimsonorblue22 I remember when he used to knock those down on occasion. The ones he'd hit from the middle of a zone were the best. I just made my question official with a new thread. We gonna see Jam-Tray at the 3 next year? I'd like to.
@drgnslayr LOL. Mostly he RTs favorable comments about it...when he's not photo-bombing cheerleaders or taking selfies with his Duke-blue suede Nikes.
Toughness. Bilas knows it like I know caviar and champagne.
Every night he takes the court, Traylor faces the same steep challenge: Play the 4 or 5 with a 6'6" frame. We've all talked about his mobility and quick first step. He can obviously drive the ball.
Last night's break-out performance made me start picturing Jam-Tray as a 3. Could this guy be Self's next made-not-born small forward? He's agile enough. Fast enough. Athletic enough.
If Traylor shows up next season with a consistent jumper out to fifteen feet (or further, but that would be a miracle), does Self give him looks at the small forward slot?
@drgnslayr He talks about his book all the time on twitter. And yeah, it is pretty laughable.
Big props to Hunter, he found a way to get it done and we lose this one without him. Jamari Traylor...was I the only one picturing him as an effective 3 next year if he could add a mid-range jump shot?
@HighEliteMajor Deep in his heart, Bill Self loves games with no rhythm that turn into wars of attrition. He's ok when the playbook goes out the window and it's balls to the walls, because...toughness.
Self should've written the book, not Jay Bilas. Maybe he still will.
@JayHawkFanToo Oh man, I loved that MeanWithey dunk.
@BeddieKU23 The fact that he dragged his foot about a yard and then mouthed off about it made the TO all the sweeter. Small victories.
I forget the name of Iowa St's ballyhooed PG who has something like two turnovers in the last decade (slight exaggeration), but I did smile when Mason/Graham's pressure forced him into 1-2 of them last night.
On the bright side, KU shot 23 treys (9-23). I know most of us were expecting mid-teens with 25 treys being the promised land. Too bad they didn't make two more of them.
I'm breaking my long radio silence to call this unorthodox W.
The good guys make more 3s than the bad guys and hang on for the nailbiter.
KU 73
ISU 71
Lebron didn't mention Wigs in his letter, so I'm not sure Wigs is staying in Cleveland. They might send him elsewhere and try and lure Kevin Love instead.
Where there's smoke there's fire: KUsports developing story ↗.
Well, there goes Bill's shot at the #1 recruiting class. I was looking forward to seeing KU listed above UK on ESPN for once, but I think we'll be ok.
I expect Cliff to have more immediate impact on the program than Turner would have. I also expect Cliff to take it to Turner in the post when they meet in the Big 12. Did those two ever match up in their senior hs seasons?
I don't have the hoops IQ to describe how to make Self's offense more guard-oriented, but I agree with you. KU is definitely "Big Man U." I wonder what other factors, outside the current post-heavy offense, are keeping Self from expanding KU's rep to "Big Man/Point Guard U."
He's certainly tried to recruit top guards in the past, without much luck. Maybe you're right and another assistant coach would help. What else?
I love the great post players, but I'd be even more thrilled to see a blue chip PG arrive in Lawrence.
That was a great game, but the outcome was more satisfying than the greatness of the game dictated. Nice work, Uconn
@justanotherfan I'm pumped to see Alexander in Lawrence. Oubre too, although he seems like less of a known quality.
What I keep asking myself is who is going to feed these guys the ball? Please don't say Tharpe, I don't think my nervous system can take another season of watching him.
I'd be thrilled if Self has a JUCO pg or transfer stud in the pipeline that no one knows about...
@nuleafjhawk Agreed. Wiggins can't do this alone, he needs at least some solid backup. Ellis didn't do much today. Selden was hardly better, but he scored a few. Beyond that... Conner played some D. What other positives am I missing? I hate to think of this team as depending soley on Wiggins and Embiid, but that's what it looks like after today's game.
@drgnslayr Ha, the thought of anyone on this team carrying a chip is pretty exciting at this point!
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Jaquan Lyle, come on down. It scares me that Self is forced to send messages to his starting PG this late in the season. I'm not sure what we're looking at now in the NCAAs. Point guard by committee? Is Frankamp going to shock us all and start? The Big 12 Tourney is Self's chance to decide who his best shot at a stretch run will be.
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The alpha dog finally shakes off his "nice" collar and starts growling. This is the Wiggins KU needs to survive and advance.
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Agreed. I'd take a #2 in a heartbeat and be fine with a #3.
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Don't think I'd go that far, but if THAT Wiggins shows up in the NCAAs, I'll revise to an emphatic Yes.
@nuleafjhawk "Let them be rich and famous at 22. I'm 55 and still ain't rich and famous. I've survived." That made me laugh pretty hard.
I can't agree more. PG play is a big weakness heading into the Madness. (Cue the Lyle discussion.) Perry's lack of poise and D is a concern. (Makes me think Cliff will have a shot at unseating him next season.)
But Embiid's health is front and center. No agile lion-hunter in the middle, no dice. Get well, big fella.
@VailHawk Larry Brown as the first head coach of the Legendary Birds, perfect. Nomad that he is, I bet he'll be ready for a change by the time our franchise lands in KC.
@JayHawkFanToo, my post was pretty light-hearted, but I disagree. Statistically (I've been thinking about this for awhile), Kansas City is, in fact, a basketball mecca. People here love their hoops. KC is the Nile Delta of basketball fertility. One way that's revealed is in the high interest always generated when NBA preseason games are played here...but anyway. No interested ownership group so no dice.
The Kings franchise failed way back before the Jordan era, so that doesn't really say anything about KC's ability or inability to support a team.
@drgnslayr Here's my solution.
Since we all know the NBA season is seemingly endless, this board needs to form an ownership group to lure an NBA franchise to downtown Kansas City where the Sprint Center, a world class arena, is still short an anchor tenant.
From there, it's easy. We immediately start drafting the best KU players, both to ensure that we can continue watching them for years and to ensure that the huge Jayhawk fan base in the KS/MO metro area is constantly fascinated.
The "Kansas City Mythological Birds" will immediately become a team of the people, ala OKC with Kevin Durant, inspiring rabid fan support and becoming a media darling. Those on the inside will simply refer to the team as "The NBA Jayhawks" and the Sprint Center as "AFH East."
The rage of MU fans will be both uncontrollable and impotent.
Oh yeah, and since I live in downtown KC, MO, I'll pony up the cash for season tickets. It's a perfect solution on every level. ;)
@jaybate 1.0 I think this question is what makes the Lyle recruitment intriguing, at least for me. The answers are so much less than obvious that you almost can't help taking guesses at what's going on behind the scenes.
Thanks for the shout-out! You too, @drgnslayr. After reading along quietly for a couple months, it's time to bring my limited hoops know-how to the boards.
@justanotherfan "Next year, those experienced contributors will likely be Selden, Ellis, Tharpe, Traylor and Mason. All five of those guys will have played significant minutes this year. Greene and Frankamp are a year further along at this point. Add in Oubre, Alexander and Lyle, and that's a team that could play deep into March again.
Subtract Selden, Tharpe and Oubre from that mix the following year and add a couple of Top 25 recruits to the Ellis, Mason, Traylor, Lyle, Alexander, Greene, Frankamp group and you can play deep into March again. "
Good insight. I think that's the most concise take on Self's evolving recruiting strategy that I've read.
@HighEliteMajor "With that, Lyle could ... could ... displace Mason. Mason then would get back into the rotation once Tharpe leaves. So, Tharpe/Lyle/Selden at the 1/2 spots."
Never thought I'd hear you say that. ;) But this must be pretty close to what Self is thinking. At the very least, we know he'll let the guards duke it out in practice for playing time, so the opportunity is there.
@jaybate 1.0 T. S. Eliot said "April is the cruelest month," only because he never played college basketball."
Now that's funny right there.
Good reads on Lyle's recruitment. I consistently find more targeted perspectives on recruiting from you guys than anywhere else on the web. KU Buckets attracts an elite contributor base.
@drgnslayr, I like your point about Tharpe welcoming the challenge. I think a lot of the folks who root for Tharpe to get lots of minutes don't realize that he welcomes the challenge and ultimately wants his team to win.
@konkeyDong, Cliff as a TAD or THRAD?! I hope you're right. Kind of assumed he was gone after one year.
@HighEliteMajor, Self must see something you don't. Maybe @bskeet's theory has some play.
Lyle was on hand for KU's victory over OK and Alexander is still actively recruiting him. Here's the money paragraph from Adam Zagoria's article ↗:
"Kansas expects to have several guards returning in Naadir Tharpe, Frank Mason, Conner Frankamp, Brannen Greene and possibly Wayne Selden, and also brings in wing Kelly Oubre.
Still, sources close to the program said Kansas is high on Lyle as a combo guard who can handle and pass better than their other guards and that he would have a chance to start next season for the Jayhawks."
I've wondered out loud whether Lyle could edge out Tharpe or Mason to start next year based on his rep as a very good defensive player. It hasn't been a very popular suggestion around here. :) Now throw in the handle/pass angle...unlikely but interesting.
I don't have any insider information, but this does make you wonder who Zagoria's sources are, doesn't it?
@nuleafjhawk My one big fear is of a bad loss. Here are my two most-feared bad loss scenarios, related to KU's personnel.
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Wiggins disappears. I want Wiggins to continue his gradual, measured rise into the college hoops stratosphere. He doesn't have to play hero ball down the stretch, but he needs to keep attacking the rim, being active, playing hard. If he struggles to score, he can generate offense at the free throw line by driving it and getting fouled. As long as Wiggs doesn't fade in the Big Dance, his #1 RECRUIT tenure in Lawrence will be a success in my book and will help Self keep bringing in top talent.
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Our small guard committee fails. Tharpe. Mason. Frankamp. This has been dissected enough. As much as I want these guys to play with a chip on their shoulders and succeed, PG is our most inconsistent position and this is the most likely place we'll see costly lapses. Let's hope not!
No real surprises here, but Turner has nailed down a date for his visit. Good to have an Embiid-backup in the wings if Bill Self calls his number.
@wissoxfan83 I watched that game as well. Holy cow, I didn't realize that Public League games were played without a shot clock. That was strange to watch.
It seemed like the zone defense that Whitney Young played bothered Cliff quite a bit. He made some clutch plays but had a pretty quiet night overall. I was most impressed with his rebounding. Fierce.
@AsadZ I hope you don't think I'm slamming Tharpe, as that is not my intent. Watching him step up and salvage some close games with clutch three-pointers has been a treat.
But since he plays for a defensive savant in Bill Self and because I hang my hat on defense when I play ball, Tharpe's defense (and some other things but especially his D) is open to critique.
Lyle stealing his starting spot is extremely unlikely. I'm just playing devil's advocate.
Interesting that Keegan is now "officially" noticing what board rats have been commenting on for the last several months, especially as it pertains to Tharpe's "short legs" and inability to keep anyone from getting by him.
This must drive Self crazy. We all know how he hated Taylor's inconsistency at point, but now he's mentioning Taylor in the same breath as Collins, Chalmers, etc. as part of the golden standard of D.
Tharpe's obvious shortcoming here and Mason's, insofar as he is another small guard (but with higher defensive upside) help me make sense of Jacquan Lyle's ongoing recruitment.
If he comes in next year and offers an immediate defensive upgrade over Tharpe, he's gonna get minutes.
I won't argue that he could win the starting spot, given Self's love for the experienced player, and yet...and yet...if Lyle is a clear defensive upgrade over Tharpe/Mason, I don't think you can quite slam that door shut.
@Crimsonorblue22 Games like that make me wonder if maybe, just maybe, the door isn't quite closed to Tharpe getting outsted from the starting 5 next year. Mason would be the likely candidate, but if Lyle ends up here...give him a 5% chance? Unlikely, but Tharpe frequently doesn't look like a guy who has his role sewn up.
I do my best not to yell at Tharpe, but man, he was killing me that game. There were several times late in the game where he seemed content to get the ball over halfcourt and just stall out over thirty feet from the paint. Not working the shot clock, just...dribbling and squinting over the D.
One thing I still hope to see in the post-NCAA-ring Bill Self era is a blue chip point guard.
@HighEliteMajor No, I don't see Lyle as an instant upgrade. Tyus Jones would likely have been that guy. Tharpe's lack of defense and lack of aggression on the break makes it easy for me to daydream about an elite level PG, but I don't know that Lyle is necessarily that.
Just wondering why he'd come to KU to play PG, as Cliff says, if he's third in line by default.
@wissoxfan83 Alexander says something like, "KU could really use a 6'4" point guard next year." That opens up the old Pandora's box about whether Self is "settling" with Tharpe at starting pg, or whether he's actively looking for an upgrade.
Makes me wonder how Alexander reached that conclusion.
I watched the game where Curie beat Monteverde, and Cliff was a MAN. He took over in the second half and out-toughed and browbeat Monteverde into submission. Another head to head matchup with Okafor would be fun. Seems like Cliff is eager to earn that number 1 spot.
Cliff Alexander Talks JaQuan Lyle, Myles Turner, #1 Ranking ↗
Understandably, things could have been a bit awkward for the big man during Sunday’s Public League quarterfinals at Chicago State University. Alexander’s future and might-have-been head coaches sat courtside, just a few seats apart as his Curie squad fought to a 71-64 win over fellow public league power Simeon.
Self watched his 6-foot-9 soon-to-be star drop 16 points, grab 11 rebounds and block six shots. Groce checked on 2015 Illini verbal commit D.J. Williams of Simeon. After his notorious hat-fake on signing day, he was cordial with Groce and staff and caught up with an extremely happy-looking Self.
According to Zagoria, KU still wants Lyle badly. Apparently Self thinks the PG position could be improved on next season. I can't see Lyle fighting the logjam at 2 guard.
JaQuan Lyle remains one of the few big-name 2014 prospects still on the board.
The 6-foot-4 Huntington (W.V.) Prep guard scored 22 of his 28 points in the second half Thursday night, when his team lost Kentucky pledge Trey Lyles and Arsenal Tech, 78-70, on ESPN.
Kansas assistant Norm Roberts and West Virginia’s Bob Huggins and Larry Harrison were all in attendance.
“Kansas is a real nice fit,” Lyle told the Indy Star. “They were out here tonight and I think they coming Sunday, too. I think they are picking up the pressure.”
Think Lyle's offer is conditional? Likely backup plan for Vaughn.
As crazy as it seems, I'm feeling optimistic about Self landing both Alexander and Okafor. That would make sense of the dragging of feet in the Jones-Okafor camp and the report that O wasn't blown away by the Duke visit.
Reports are that Alexander has been consistently high on KU.
KU lands 'em both.
Alexander is set to announce on Nov 16, coinciding with an ESPN recruiting program. So, where's he headed? And how does this influence the Okafor-Jones saga?
http://zagsblog.com/recruiting/alexander-enjoys-illinois-decision-coming-soon/ ↗
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