🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Also Flory running the floor and shielding for Hunter.

Flory is there every single rebound. May be out muscled but now out worked

Yeaaah Flory!

Amazing. Flory comes in and we get off the mat.

Flory! Flory! Flory!

@Texas-Hawk-10 cant score either.

Can we just play Bidunga? Jesus

What time is that USMNT game again?

Here we go fellas and ladies!

Oof. Cell phone died and I lost my response.

I like what you did here. Good framework for this discussion.

Points I like to discuss:

1. Probably in bucket C. Bill Self currently
   appears to be struggling more with the combination of players. In part due to defections and not being able to portal very well. Knowing the limitations of KJ, in particular, bringing in Hunter seems to ignoring the fact that they dont work together, and that should be easy to guess?

2. A lot of your post is focused on development but that has been flipped on its head by the portal. I do appreciate the defense of Bills historical decisions. These arguments are valid for the era they occurred in. But can we really say we expect the same level of development in transfers?

3. I suggest we have the same discussion pre and post portal era. The Lawson brothers were a headscratcher. KJ, and not recruiting over him, headscratcher. Recruiting Hunter and not retaining Zuby and/or Udeh, headscratcher.

We can only look to the [distant, in cbb years] past as evidence to be applied in the present so much, when things have changed so radically, and Self himself is on the back 9 of his storied career. Not the same situation and not the same man.

@nuleafjhawk i dont like Notre Dame :man_shrugging_medium-light_skin_tone:

Go Marijuana Leaves! Beat those Christmas
Ornaments!

@Jhawk69 no stone unturned! ;)

@Texas-Hawk-10 @Kcmatt7 yeah, i fell asleep thinking about how that Syracuse zone might have benefited White. Selden def had the higher ceiling on the defensive end.

So Self recruits White and Greene and then declares that threes are fools gold. Thats their biggest asset as players. I am not going to pin this all on Self. Things change and we are always trying to win. Players become available and you recruit over other players. It happens. And yes, looking back the talent pipeline at that time was strong.

But it was unfortunate for White nonetheless.

I think the biggest moral of the story imo is “if you arent a good defender don’t play for Bill Self”. It just is not going to end well.

@SlimShaddy54 you’re good man. Take a breather.

@SlimShaddy54 @Texas-Hawk-10 guys can we take it down a notch please? This has been a fun thread and would hate to have it get locked because people’s head explode.

Thanks.

@Texas-Hawk-10 White got 6 mpg his soph season here and 30+ at Nebraska and Syracuse his junior and senior season and shot over 40% both places. White set a Syracuse season record with 109 3-pointers.

We talk a lot about Self getting to see what players do at practice. And we say that what we see in games in just the tip of the iceberg, incomplete data. We say this when kids are doing well and we think they deserve more time. It goes both ways. When kids underperform in limited minutes and then go to other P5 schools playing big minutes and shooting 40% from 3, it doesnt look good.

Selden’s shot looked broken. He spent several seasons cleaning it up. He never became a 40% 3 pt shooter. His eFG% his sophomore season was .461 and he averaged 29 minutes a game. Whites was .559 his sophomore season.

There was a role for White, Self just didnt see it.

@Crimsonorblue22 yeah this graphic looks to be a week stale. Not sure if there is a current one.

@MoonwalkMafia Andrew White was from Chester Virginia. He was at the YMCA shooting around with his dad a couple times when I lived there. Frank Mason was from Petersburg Virginia, about 8 minutes south of Chester and my boys attended the basketball camp he ran for several years.

It was pretty interesting watching one of these local players enter Self’s circle of trust, and the other finding himself on the outside looking in.

Andrew White was a good kid and could have helped KU. He seemed to be coming on when he got hurt. Once he got injured he got squeezed out of the rotation and never got a real shake thereafter.

It was confusing to me as I am sure it was to him.

To me this is evidence that Flory needs to be on the floor until he fouls out. Certainly more time to see if the observed stats hold more water than the predictive stats are accounting for: 🐦 View Tweet/photo/1

@tundrahok i dont think that rebounding rate is sustainable because he still isnt boxing out and collecting defensive rebounds.

@Jhawk69 i dont think we can have an elite defense with KJ and Hunt on the floor together. Not against good teams. So, in my mind, the only way to accomplish an elite defense against those teams with KJ on the floor is with Bidunga at the 5 for rebounding and rim protection.

I dont think of KJ as an elite defender because of deficiencies in those areas, unless paired with someone who is a plus in those areas.

Also, I know there isnt an obvious answer here and i’m not trying to suggest that we need to feel all one thing or another with mutual exclusivity. I think you have identified a conflict of needs and wondering how you think we should reconcile it.

@Jhawk69 sorry i tried to clarify and edit my post but we are in real time :)

@Jhawk69 but KJ isnt a guard. 4 around 1 implies i think that those are 4 guards that can shoot the 3.

I guess my question is if you think 4-1 is our best option how do you reconcile that with thinking we are best with KJ at the 4? That seems contradictory. Which is better?

In addition, I think we need to focus on certain combinations against athletic teams.

Bill Self isnt the only person allowed to point at successful outcomes and declare it “fools gold”

@Jhawk69 I think you kind of missed the jist of my post.

I am saying we should not compare one player to another. We should compare the combination of players.

In this case, KJ + Hunter vs Rylan + Bidunga.

Not vs Rylan + Hunter.

Also, I would argue we dont have significant data because we have much more data about certain pairings than others.

@MoonwalkMafia I became a KU fan the season Bill Self became coach. Being a Self fan and being a KU fan have been synonymous to me this whole time.

I am still a Self fan and a KU fan, but the two are no longer synonymous.

Thanks for the article. Good find.

@Jhawk69 i think we have the potential to be better with AJ or Rylan on the floor than KJ in stretches, if they gain some confidence.

Also, I am concerned that against athletic teams, KJ + Hunter means giving up a lot of defensive rebounds and offers much less rim protection than Bidunga.

The logic of trying to identify the impact an individual has on our team vs a combination of individuals is where I feel like Bill may have run afoul.

This falls squarely in the same bucket of “only evaluating talent and not fit”

Its a big problem when you recruitguys that have critical insurmountable weaknesses. Like Hunts mobility or KJs rebounding and shooting.

I would argue that if we are playing against athletic teams, 28 minutes for KJ could definitely be a problem if it means pairing him with Hunt and sending Bidunga unnecessarily to the pine, especially if KJ has one nonfunctional arm.

@KirkIsMyHinrich he can offend?

Ha and Uconn lost. Icing.

Raftery told Hunter “great game and didnt take a 3, Bill will be happy!” Lol

Nice. I coached 6-7 year olds this morning. It doesnt get any better. Savoring it.

@Crimsonorblue22 purple? More like blur-ple

@dylans well also, if KU had the rosters Duke had over the last decade I dont think we would have people irritated with minutes distribution,
Self could throw darts blindfolded and roll out 5 studs, but I might be mistaken.

@Texas-Hawk-10 thanks for the refresher. All that up in your head? Steel trap, well done.

Cool, with y’alls endorsements I will go back and watch the full tape, good to know.

Huh Shak and Flory seem to be least impactful of starters at least in scoring column

Flory and Shak play well?

I decided to hop on with 4 min to go. Score would indicate its been a slog…

I’ve got dad duties and will catch the game late. Here in spirit on tape delay. Rock Chalk!

@dylans being the guy your coach puts in when he gives up doesnt exactly instill confidence in a young man.

Also, it became a blowout because KJ with one useless arm came back and Self didnt at least let Bidunga ride until he picked up his 5th. Will stand by that.

These are rhythm players. Cant expect same or better production from most guys when you throw them into spot minutes.

@BShark When a Mildcat comes along, you must whip it. Whip it good!

Regarding Cheick and Cliffs playing time, I thought there were reasons we kept them out of some games to avoid forfeiture of wins or some such. Not just because Self deemed someone else a superior player.

Agreed, think Jalen owned it, did great things here and continues to show solid work ethic in the league. But I do believe at the time it happened we were tossing around “here we go again”s on the board.

Well, there is certainly high drama right now, and I enjoy hearing some of the less belabored points of criticism.

Dramatic is good and I am all for a glorious finish to the season. But I think as you seem to be alluding to @MoonwalkMafia, one could argue that some of Bill Self’s greatest successes have hinged on having his hand forced by circumstances out of his control, and then adapting to it.

He has made more out of less with some of our more limited teams, less out of some of our more talented teams, and champions and runners up in 2022 and 2012 out of two teams where the talent he had was used to their max potential in the tourney.

It should not be a surprise to anyone that he sticks to his habits given the amount of success he has had with them.

But I do hope that KJs absence will force him to adapt because he is remarkably adaptable given how stubborn and resistant to change he is.

@MoonwalkMafia i loved it. Well said man!

Like I said… I might be wrong, this too might pass. I’m just not sure any more.

@rockchalkjayhawk Self’s recruiting has declined, despite a sizable NIL budget, and not because he doesnt get coveted transfers.

I dont think he knows what he is doing in the portal.

And I think the 4, 5 or 6 year guys he has recruited have holes in their game that he increasingly cannot scheme for.

Timberlake was a shooter who cant shoot. Ditto Storr (though I dont think he is as broken as Timberlake was, he seems to be getting much less run)

Hunter is an abysmal defender, whom he is pairing with a 4 who isnt a rim protector or a good rebounder. Dedric was a bad defender, Hunter is worse.

I wonder if we need a coach who doesnt favor upperclassmen or people who have been in the program in terms of minute distribution simply because of seniority, because your younger talents WILL TRANSFER OUT and TRANSFERS AND RECRUITS WILL NO LONGER COME.

With all the money in the world how are we not recruiting a God roster and making the parts work?

Why are we paying millions of dollars for players who cant or wont play a lick of D?

I am becoming convinced its because good players, or specifically good players with a complete skillset dont want to work for Bill Self and have options.

College Basketball is entirely a business and Kansas basketball is Risky Business.

I appreciate you all supporting me through this unsettling time.

A couple wins and team growth and I should snap out of it.