🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Gosh I'm going to miss Joel next year. It's not just for selfish Jayhawk reasons why I would have like to see him return to make us a definite title contender next March. I will miss his effort, attitude, and his crazy footwork. We've all questioned effort and motivation on this year's team from time to time, but no one questioned Joel's hustle. I'm sure he often masked his pain so coaches would let him play on. He did that as long as he could, until the pain took over. He did everything in his power to try to help us win. No question about that!

Historically, I've sat on the other side of the fence on this OAD topic. I sat on the side that makes the fight for kids to stay in school. These kids aren't ready for the 'No Boys Allowed' league in every possible aspect. They don't have the mental or physical maturity to hang with long seasons, gold diggers trying to snag their wealth and fame, lonely travel schedules, all the money and financial burden it places on them, and all the hot/cold interactions they will have with fans and media. And most important, their bodies are not developed enough to take the physical assault that will be unleashed on their bodies. NBA seasons (and other games) typically cross over 100 in a year (when adding in playoffs). These young kids will go up against big, physical men who know many tricks for gaining advantages, or pushing young players to their limit. Teenagers are not prepared to face all of this, period.

But I've jumped over to the other side of the fence with Joel. I didn't change my opinion based on all the money he will make, or all the money he puts at risk by returning to Kansas for another "non-profit" year of basketball. Of course, that plays into decisions, and it should, but that isn't what made me change my mind.

What convinced me that Joel needs to move on is the fact that there is no fall back in college basketball when it comes to health insurance. Joel is fully-covered as long as he wears a Jayhawk uniform. But what about after that? Fact is, he will be on his own. So any injury he incurs during this playing days at Kansas are not covered after he leaves. Most of the time, injuries follow players for the rest of their lives. Often, they require medical treatment indefinitely. This fact puts Joel at risk in a situation that could create serious hardship in his future regardless if his parents are financially stable or not. If he were to go down with an injury that ends his potential in the NBA, he'll have to move forward without it, and he will carry forward his injury to face after KU.

This fact should help many of us change our minds about players leaving early. They just simply have to risk too much by staying at Kansas. Personally, I'm not the kind of guy that chases wealth, so I hardly relate to the types of income numbers we read about if these guys get signed early in the draft. But I have experience with sports injuries. I've been dealing with several of mine ever since they happened. One particular injury has created great hardship in my life. I've been fortunate to be able to do well enough (financially) to take good care of myself, but everyone doesn't have positive outcomes from being in this situation.

Joel will never have his jersey number raised in AFH. So be it. But he will be remembered and held in high regard for what he gave in the short time he wore a Jayhawk jersey. We all know his real dream to come back next year. He's just been fortunate enough to have the right people around him explain the risk, and he's been mature enough to do the right thing under the circumstances.

Fairwell, great lion hunter! You will be missed and you are always welcome back because you are now a lifetime Jayhawk! Best of luck in the league!

Rock Chalk, Joel Embiid!

@JRyman

"You are assuming that Barnes would figure out how to manipulate a mismatch like that.

I don't think he can."

RIght... he's too nice a fellow. I'm serious.

BTW: loved your "avoidance paragraph" on Embiid!

@wissoxfan83

It just seems like most coaches have kind of a life span within their current schools. They get hot and go far in the tournament, maybe win their conference... fans and administration are happy. The future looks bright. Then they go through a dry spell... and eventually many fans turn, maybe some administration and before you know it the magic is gone.

Self recently said something about being happy here, as long as fans are willing to put up with him. It's one of his semi-dark jokes, I guess.

Many of us have harped on some of Self's moves this year. I'm pretty sure we would have made less noise had we, say, reached the Final Four.

It's really a role of the dice now. What if we get taken out of the tourney next year in the first weekend by another dud team? Just because it happened this year, doesn't mean it won't happen next year. It's kind of like thinking you predict heads or tails by what you just flipped. The odds are still the same.

I think most of us still have faith in Coach Self. I just think many of us make statements, hoping they reach him, and he gets more motivated to make the fan base happy next year. Self, at times, has proven to be stubborn, but he has also adapted several aspects of his style over recent years, and I think that shows a willingness to try new things and be hungry for growth.

I'm hoping next year ends better and we start building back more momentum in the program and with the fans!

Rock Chalk!

Concerning Roy... Roy isn't near the diplomat Bill is. He has always made remarks and done things that tick off his fan base. He wouldn't recruit back east while at KU in respect to Smith at UNC... then... went to UNC and immediately started recruiting back in the Midwest. Stuff like that pisses off fans. I know, over his years at UNC, he has made several PR mistakes with his fan base... like when he was insensitive to the cheerleader that got hurt.

All those things ad up, just like Self has quite a bit of leeway with his fan base because he's walked a pretty narrow path... he has kept his yard tidy!

But Roy is still held in high regards at UNC... and with most of the country.... even here at Kansas!

@Lulufulu85

I just read something about Calipari decided for Kittles and that was the decision made. My source could have been wrong.

All teams are different. Some try picking from upper management, but the coaches always play a role in designing a team. Management has to be involved, too. I think they often have combinations of agents, lawyers, deal makers, etc... especially when they are just picking a player or players to leverage. Then you hear about these multi-player trades. Those deals must be really involved and require many minds working on them. They put present-day valuations on contracts, and apply different values for new contracts.

@JayHawkFanToo

There were some old clips mixed in their, too... I thought of them because I remember when they ran it commonly in the 80's.

They ran that for Bird almost every other play. He'd pop around one of those moving ball screens (that is what they are), turn and nail the 3.

@ralster

Spot on. All of it.

And Ellis should be playing ball in the Bronx this summer on pavement and chain nets. Come back in the fall a little banged up, but a heck of a lot tougher after having his manhood challenged all summer.

Then Ellis would dominate for the year and enter into the draft as a 1st round pick.

As he is now, he already has a huge reputation for playing soft (especially on defense). If he came back from summer ball with one or two good facial scars, he would buy some cred even before playing another game.

Self needs some guards that play like Napier and Boatright. Those guys can d up.. not only stopping tough driving guards... picking their pockets in the meantime.

It would really be something if (someday) we were so good at guard we looked forward to March and having a huge advantage over every team we play because our 1 and 2 had kryptonite running through their veins in the spring.

I'm tired of going into March wondering if our guards can handle the challenge. When was the last time we didn't have that worry? '08? Maybe a bit longer with Sherron?

@JRyman

Now that we've all had a good laugh on this one....

Chapman has already backed off his claim.

And I was thinking he hated Calipari like the rest of sane people living outside of Kentucky.... wrong... I bet, now, he was in cahoots with Calipari on this one.

It was an inside job.

And why would Calipari want this rumor out there? It was a play to drain the UK coffers of more money.

This was generated by Cal. It came right before the game to help run protection from others think Cal was behind it, because what upstanding coach would orchestrate a high profile rumor right before tip-off?

And let's get real.. it didn't impact their play because all those who played will be leaving Kentucky after the game anyways.

It did seem fishy from the word go...

I credit Calipari for being the best recruiter in college basketball... he also isn't too bad at self promotion!

And the quick write up on Chapman's Wiki page that happened seconds after he released the statement? Wasn't that just a bit too quick? More like contrived... to temporarily make Chapman look bad. It will, eventually, be updated and removed or reduced to nothing. Chapman and Calipari will have some kind of "make up" and everything will be bright and blue with the Big Blue Nation once again.

Let's get real... the NBA isn't looking for Calipari. His record in the league stunk and he just didn't show signs like he could turn it around... in fact... he was with the Nets when Kobe Bryant entered the draft in 1996... and Calipari didn't pick Kobe... instead going for Kerry Kittles. So you can just imagine all the love Kobe still has for Calipari. Then bring him in as his coach? Ain't gonna happen.

People were not going to disown Chapman anytime soon... he was from Kentucky and was a star at Kentucky. This was all a conspired plan in attempt to up Calipari's Big Blue salary.

@ralster

"When Cal said pre-season that his guys "could go 40-0", he almost doomed them with that hype."

I totally agree.

And when he said they were reaching for perfection... that blew my mind, and apparently about everyone elses' minds, too, because it turned people negative.

I still can't believe Harrison said that. Both those boys are good guys that come from a quality family. They know better. I'm guessing it was the result of them going through a toxic year in the pressure cooker.

All those Kentucky players DESERVE to remember this tournament positively. To hold their heads up high and REMEMBER and SAVOR this moment for the rest of their lives! It doesn't sound like they feel that way now. Maybe it will come to them over time. I hope so for their own benefit.... because winning games in March is something that should be savored through perpetuity! That's what the teams they beat felt and would have felt by advancing. That is what they take away from those teams if they can't rejoice with the success they had.

@ralster

It was disrespectful to say it didn't mean anything. It should mean something to anyone getting the honor to play in that tournament. How would it feel to put your guts into it for years to get to the tournament, then get beat by a bunch of all stars that later tell you it didn't mean anything? It's total disrespect. They are marginalizing the entire game.

I watched MOST of Kentucky's games this year... and to be honest, I like every single player on that team! The Harrison brothers are awesome.

But it doesn't mean anything to them because it all came too easy. And if it doesn't mean anything to them, then they could at least have the dignity to keep quiet about it.

Harrison should be proud to have had that opportunity... and if he doesn't want to remember any of his game-winning shots, then why should anyone else?

There must be 10 or 20 million guys out there in America that would give their left testicle to have the experience that they had.

Kentucky DID do something to those other teams... they knocked them out of the tournament. They cut some of their dreams short. It SHOULD mean something to them. It SHOULD mean something to everyone playing in that tournament.

A few years of results like this and it will take a toll on America and the sport.

If these kids are going to come in here and not have a memorable moment (win or lose) then they should just go to Europe and play a year to qualify for the NBA... they should stop defecating all over our game with their trivial attitudes.

These kids literally coast into college basketball... quick and out. If they are going to do that without putting in the time and effort, the least they could do is not s#it all over the game with their attitudes.

We do have some of the same kids... and if they make comments like that I'll go to Lawrence myself and kick some arse! We haven't heard Wiggins or Embiid marginalize the tournament. If they do, they will be quickly forgotten by KU fans.

It's all part of what Kentucky is building... and it is unhealthy for everyone, in or outside of Lexington.

The expectations their fans had were way over the top... even over the top of what we have.

So now their season didn't count for them... it is swept under the rug like it didn't happen.

They advanced far beyond where we did, and I still will remember this season for a long long time. Sure, I was disappointed with our last game. We always are unless we bring home the trophy. But I enjoyed a lot of great Jayhawk basketball this year and I thank every single player for making it happen!

Here is a story about Kentucky AFTER last night...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2014/04/08/college-basketball-final-four-kentucky-wildcats/7452917/ ↗

They are already a thing of the past, even to themselves. Had they won, they would also have been a thing of the past, in just a few months from now when the NEW set of Kentucky OADs enter the program.

"And he said those late-game three-pointers that will live on in NCAA tournament lore "don't mean anything now.""

Well... they may mean nothing to him, but those victories crushed the hearts of many deserving teams that STILL have not forgotten their March performances and will cherish just playing in the tournament.

This is the fall out brought on by Calipari basketball. This team, who seemed to live in the moment when they destroyed a field of teams full of 4 and 5-yr players now is left with more hollowness than the teams they beat. This is the legacy they have left for Kentucky and college basketball everywhere...

"Don't mean anything now."

Well... to be honest... it never did mean anything, even if they had won. Because a few more points and winning the trophy took only a few months effort to earn. Try putting your guts into it for 4 or 5 years, while earning a degree, then step up to the microphone and tell the world it "don't mean anything now."

I'm disgusted with it all.

This is a total disrespect for the game, and for anything in life worth fighting for. The things to remember are remembered because they aren't easy to obtain. A few months of all star basketball will never create a memory worth holding on to.

Funny.... I remember almost everything about Danny Manning and his YEARS at Kansas. I remember his smile, his usual calm demeanor, his dynamic moves to the hole (for a big man). I remember most players on that team. I remember Coach Brown like he was still coaching at Kansas now.

"Still means something now."

So does our runner-up run in 2012 with TT and TRob..... I still remember TRob's smile...

@konkeyDong

"But when that same coach wins 83% of the time and coaches a program that in the previous 10 seasons has more NCAA tournament game wins (not titles, mind you) than any other program (and is only bested by Calipari in terms of individual coaches), I have a hard time believing he's not giving his players the tools they need to succeed on a regular basis. "

However... I believe we (Kansas) have the current record for NCAA appearances (current streak). So isn't part of that the fact that we play well before the tournament (like league play) and we've been to the tourney all 10 seasons when others' haven't?

I'd like to see someone like Jesse "crunch a bunch" of NCAA tournament numbers to give more credence to anyone's claim.

From your claim, it sounds like we are very successful in March... but what it feels like, is we are not. Feelings can be wrong, no question.

Some kind of statistical regressions and other crunches could probably make us all feel better.

Jesse... you out there?

UPDATE -

I just caught this from @DanR :

http://collegespun.com/acc/syracuse/the-25-most-successful-college-basketball-teams-of-the-21st-century-scored-by-ncaa-tournament-bracket-rules/3 ↗

This is helpful for totality... but I don't think any teams below us has made as many appearances. So we get a few extra points by having good, consistent seasons BEFORE March.

I think I'd like to see an average of all our tournaments over the past 10 years... how far do we get, on average?

Are we at the top on that category?

And if teams don't make the tournament, that doesn't count... it's just an average of advancement for teams that make it. That is one way to strictly look at March Madness performance. Should be more accurate than the article I linked to.

@JRyman

"But if he hangs on the rim wont Cliff get a T? {[Sarcasm font]}"

Some Ts are worth it!

He kind of looks like he might have a "Chocolate Thunder" dunk or two in him. Remember "Chocolate Thunder?"

He's the guy that made the NBA structurally upgrade their glass backboards and entire goal structure (all the way to the ground).

@ParisHawk

I thought they were talking about the weave... that was the basis of my thread. After further review of the footage online it's just a simple hand off. My bad. But what they show is something that has been around as long as the game.

Naismith probably invented it.

I did a quick search on youtube and put in Celtic hand off... because I recall them using it a lot and I found that clip. Same dang thing they showed which Self calls the "chop."

I got off base with the weave, because that is something previously mentioned as Self's... when it clearly is not. I think I jumped the gun because it has bothered me for years... people claiming the weave is from Self.

Here is the claim Self invented the chop:

"The play, known as "Chop," was created by Self prior to the 2006-07 season."

http://regressing.deadspin.com/how-a-clever-kansas-play-went-viral-and-took-over-colle-1560429435 ↗

I guess we can say the word "chop" in reference to this basketball move is Self's. The actual move goes back to probably Naismith days.

Turns out to be a bonus thread because both the weave and the chop were exposed as old hat!

My bad... what they are showing isn't long enough to weave. It's the simple Celtic hand off.

Still... we haven't innovated anything.

@nuleafjhawk

I love your story!

Journalism today, is largely a joke. Stories are fabricated from thin air. Very thin air. Air so thin that brains ding out. "Writers" play copy cat. One will write a story and others will jump on the bandwagon for their version of the same story. It's a habit that has taken over our media, and the consequences of riding story coat tails can create huge fabrications from the truth that spread like wild fire.

That is the case this morning.

Over at KUSports... this made their headlines today:

"College basketball coaches adapt Jayhawks’ go-to play"

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2014/apr/08/college-basketball-coaches-adapt-jayhawks-go-play/ ↗

The story was a spin off from a "Dead Spin" story published yesterday. Some journalists, obviously, didn't perform their due diligence on this story.

First.. here is where the story started:

"How A Clever Kansas Play Went Viral And Took Over College Basketball"

http://regressing.deadspin.com/how-a-clever-kansas-play-went-viral-and-took-over-colle-1560429435/all ↗

Let's take a pop quiz. How many people in here think Self's "chop" is his own? We've been told that it is his on numerous occasions.

Maybe it is a generation thing... but many of us used "the weave" way back in our days... like in the 60's. This "weave" or "chop" is not new to basketball.

Let's now give credit to who may be the original authors of the "weave" or "chop"...

The Harlem Globetrotters deserve the credit for spreading the weave all over the world.

But you don't have to take my word for it... go to this link and click on the video clip and watch one of their variants of the weave performed in 1958. Granted, this variant is slightly different from what Kansas runs... but the Globetrotters did the Kansas variant, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem_Globetrotters ↗

Or here you can see a little weave by the Globetrotters in 1950:

The clip footage didn't show long weaves, but they did often perform long versions of the weave... exactly the same weave as used at Kansas.

Who invented this basketball move credited to Kansas and Bill Self?

My guess.. it goes back to 1926 and Abe Saperstein in Chicago. It was the forerunners of the Harlem Globetrotters... the Savoy Big Five.

They were looking for ways to entertain the crowd and differentiate themselves from the traditional game. They needed crowds to fill the Savoy Ballroom, so people would stay after for dances.

I laugh at terms like "blue blood" used in America.

Part of my college experience involved attending the University of Reading. I was dining at one of my professor's house and the subject turned to his old barn he was using as his garage... I think the phrase he used was "car park" (pronounced 'kaw pawk' ).

"I'm going to tear down that leaky old barn," he said. I asked him how old his barn was and he said it was over 450 years old... twice the age of what our country was at that moment. His rafter timbers came from old sailing ships. His barn would be a historic museum if it was in our country. I'm pretty sure he knocked it down the year after I left.

The term "blue blood" really should be kept intact with it's original location... Europe. The noble rank was in it's prime during feudal days. Let's see... there was, of course, the monarch, possessing most of the powers, especially on taxation. The church, used to control the commoner while offering protection for the monarchs. The government, which executed broader powers for the State along with the demands of the noble, and of course the military structure. The peasants, who were held in check to prevent possible status movement. Not exactly a democracy or free enterprise system. The biggest barrier shackling potential prosperity came through taxation. Moving goods on ships through canals was the mode of business transport and every monarch exercised a stiff tax for rights of passage. There were castles just about everywhere and their main purpose was to extrude burdensome taxes in that area however they (noble) saw fit. It was pure thievery.

We use the term to reference the old, established programs... but knowing the history around the term, it isn't exactly a complimentary reference, by any stretch of the means.

Maybe we drop the term for Kansas and use a more appropriate phrase... like... "Home of the Founding Father of Basketball."

Let's break from the field of "blue bloods" with our own unique identity. It is the way it should be because we are not like Kentucky or other "blue bloods."

That has a certain ring to it. Let the rest of our status be challenged every year on the hard courts... like it should be. Or we start acting the role of a blue blood by levying a tax on the game last night on both sides. That would be a typical, fitting action for a true blue blood.

There is only one blue blood program in college basketball....

drum roll please...

That would be the NCAA!

@icthawkfan316

I hear you.

I don't hope many (or any) in here want to run Bill out of town. I think many feel it is time we stop trying to motivate players and work on motivating the coach first.

@approxinfinity

"ha! Apparently after I posted that they did follow up with him and he says he is keeping it:"

Truth was that he was covering up his ex's name, "Nati Hampio" who stole the rims on his pickup, dog and still.

I guess if he decides to get mad at his Cats he can just remove "Cham" so it's "2014 National Pions UK".

@Crimsonorblue22

Yes.... but Tar eventually won over about everyone. I liked him from day 1. I never jumped on the negative bandwagon. It was a good move by Self. I kept complaining that he became marginalized to a role player off the bench.

@nuleafjhawk

"Same with after the game. He was calm, polite, and he gave proper answers to the questions he was asked. He wasn't whining. He wasn't blaming the refs. I thought he handled himself very well."

I agree... he did handle himself well. But I have seen him the other way and was expecting him to be the old Calipari.

Maybe he is grooming for the LA job. He would fit well with the Hollywood crowd. Showbiz is his schtick... and LA is desperate.

Surely, deep down, he has higher aspirations than living the rest of his life in Lexington. He doesn't need money, and he doesn't need another NC. He's accomplished a bunch of unique things... like taking 5 freshmen to the title game. He can share that with the Fab Five. But I think Cal would like more fame. The kind of fame you can only get from tinsel town. He'd get to hob nob with all the celebs. Sit a few rows down from Jack Nicholson. Make guest appearances on the Kardashians. This is his one shot! Hey... it has to be better than coaching in Jersey.

@MoonwalkMafia

Right on!

I'd hire Tarik in a second.

Maybe we goofed this year and when JoJo became good enough to start, we should have pulled Perry and left Tar in there as a starter.... even if he was still adjusting and fouling. Not for his immediate production, but for his spiritual impact.

We should have built this team around Tarik. He deserved it.

Let's remove our Jayhawk eyewear and look back at Tarik and his transfer to KU. Through the entire process we only saw it through Jayhawk glasses so we thought Tarik was just taking advantage of a good opportunity. Tarik, actually, risked a lot by making that move. Memphis is his home, and he gambled a lot of good faith away to become a Jayhawk. We should have cherished that more than we did. And players responded to him more than any other player or coach.

I wish we had it to do all over... and we would have seen what we see now. I guess we can always say that.

Tarik leaves Kansas after only one year, but he will always be enshrined in me as one of my favorite Jayhawks.

"Black Death!"

I bet he stays close to the Jayhawk Nation and he comes back to Lawrence when he can. I'm sure he will keep contact with some players... Bam Bam for sure!

Rock Chalk, Tarik!

@jaybate 1.0

Actually, Cal impacted that by going to the zone, because before then UK was being run out of the gym. The quicker pace favored UCONN and their quicker backcourt.

Once the game slowed, the game tightened because UCONN lost it's speed advantage.

I can't stand Cal, but I give him credit when he actually does something intelligent. Zone helped bring UK back into the game.

Yes.. it looked like a Self "grind it out" night.

Game became so slow that my wife snored all through the second half.

If the pace had been kept up like the beginning, UCONN would have completely smashed Kentucky... winning by 25 or 30. Speed would have favored the x-axis style... and we know which team was the x-axis team!

Once again, this is a win for x-axis basketball.

I hope Bill took notes and finally realized we'll never win another championship with a combo guard running point. It's like trying to hammer a square peg in a round hole. It just isn't the right strategy for March. Yes... height can almost become a hindrance at the PG position. Harrison is very skilled, but Kentucky might have won if he was 5 inches shorter and had the added nimbleness and foot speed.

Chalk one up for the little guy! I mean... chalk up another one for the little guy...

@approxinfinity

Hahahe... he can always add "Runner-Up" at the bottom! The "9" can easily be converted back to an "8."

Cal to the Lakers?

Heck yes... they even named the place for him... Southern Cal!

But wait a second... have we forgotten this small bit of information:

"His NBA coaching experience, however, leaves a bit to be desired: In a little over two seasons as the head coach of the New Jersey Nets between 1996 and 1998, Calipari compiled a record of 72-112."

When suddenly he doesn't have a huge talent advantage over the field, he gets exposed for what he really is... a sub-par coach.

It was a nice thought having him gone, just no reality to it. Chapman said it because he hates Calipari and what he is doing to the game and UK's reputation beyond Lexington. You see... Chapman is actually from Kentucky, not like all the OAD talent Cal brings in.

In case you haven't experienced enough of this story... check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Chapman ↗

Go to the last paragraph... Wiki has already been updated with Rex's comment! The Wiki writer is a UK fan and he blamed UK's loss on Chapman for distracting the team! I bet Cal did this. It smells of his work.

Here... read it for yourself. Not exactly an unbiased writer:

"On April 7, 2014 Chapman burned all bridges leading to the University of Kentucky, as well as with his fans, when he selfishly Tweeted a malicious, unfounded rumor prior to the NCAA men's basketball championship between UK and UCONN. In the tweet, Rex claimed UK coach John Calipari would leave Kentucky to coach the L.A. Lakers,"win or lose" and that it was a "done deal". Both the Lakers organization and Calipari shot down the false rumor immediately following the game. The ill-timed tweet, no doubt read by thousands of UK fans...as well as, potentially, the UK players...was a major distraction prior to, and during the game, which ended in a UK loss. Chapman's multiple failures in life after basketball likely led to the desperate, selfish move."

Really? Chapman's multiple failures in life after basketball likely led to the desperate, selfish move? Sounds unbiased, huh?

@KULA

That's the best come back in here for quite some time!

Bravo!

@icthawkfan316

I was just posting and it looked like most the conversations were with you. Hope you didn't mind!

These kids have to be smarter than that. And hey... if they are old enough to make millions and millions (at least some) then they should learn to handle their stuff. The part that made it worse for me was the fact that it was a selfie.

He should have known this stuff would get loose. Maybe he was a trophy lay, or whatever... but he was the captain of this team.

Captain Selfie!

This youth thing of letting them off the hook all the time is starting to be a crutch for them. We all did things we weren't proud of when we were young... but I never did anything that brazen that could hurt a bunch of people.

But... to be honest... I might have done something that would have hurt people (even quite a bit worse) had I not been mentored.

That is why I posted my story. Before being mentored I bet I was a much bigger problem to people around me than Naadir is.

@JRyman

I don't see Self being fired from KU. We've had a lot worse coaches that we would never fire. I'm not sure we've had many (if any) better coaches. I guess we could argue Brown was better... maybe because he was smart enough to leave quickly.

There are two kinds of criticism... construction and destructive.

How people take criticism is another thing. Some just want to leave. Slide everything under the rug. Never face the challenge in hopes to better themselves. Others stick around but live in denial. Another form of shoving it under the rug. Running like the ones who leave, but just do it internally. And then there are those who take on criticisms and try to defeat them with a fight. Challenge those who criticize and challenge their points in hopes of "winning the argument." Then, last, there are those who meet the criticisms. Take the time to make sure they understand what they are. Then try to see if there is some validity to them by keeping an open mind and reduced ego. Then try to learn from criticisms and view them as an opportunity to grow. Then take a new path to resolve issues brought from those criticisms.

The people who become the best at what they do fit in that last category. No one is perfect and never will be. Life is full of challenges, and if the challenges stop, so does the growth.

It is tough to compete and win in certain areas... like college basketball in March. Excluding the NIT, we only pick one winner. So the other 400 +- schools fail. No matter how much effort and skill is involved, luck plays a part of that. Anyone can get hot and anyone can get cold. But over a long span of time, we do see tendencies... patterns start to appear. A few programs seem to shine more than others.

Is it all about the coach? Might other factors be involved? Administration? School history and reputation? Location? Media? Perceptions? Strategy? Conference?

I think we can make this as complicated as we want.

Seriously... can anyone see us firing Self while he owns a historic conference championship streak? Seems absurd. But there could be reasons for dismissal... like allegations arise that has the potential to tarnish the reputation of the school. Things like that...

So if Self doesn't get fired... might he leave by taking a job somewhere else? Sure he could. Will he? I certainly have my doubts for the immediate future.

Can we become proficient in March with Self? Sure we can. But it does seem like changes will have to happen. People aren't challenging Self's abilities in March just over this past lemon performance. This has been coming. We have underachieved most of the time in March under Self... most fans will admit that. It isn't just our fans having unrealistic expectations... we have fallen to some crummy lower seeds many times now. Stanford was not a quality opponent. The media fluffed them up but come on...

So if change needs to happen, will Self be willing to change? And if so, what needs to change? It is easy for us to quarterback from the sidelines. None of us can say with complete certainty we have answers. But many of us have been in competitive basketball for many decades and we see signs that seem to tell us plenty.

For me... it really isn't 100% about winning or losing. What does count for 100% with me is bringing our best shot to every game in March. Coming prepared, being motivated, hustle hustle hustle, stay focused. I know nerves get in the way. I can understand when teams sometimes come out stiff. But basketball is what they do, and they've been playing for big crowds for a long time before March. There is no excuse to play stiff all game. There is no excuse for not stepping up to the challenge when opposition charges ahead. There is no possible good explanation for not perspiring an entire game. These is no good excuse for not diving for basketballs.

It is obvious this team had issues this year, and it started (and maybe ended) with Tharpe. The sex photo was final proof that guy isn't KU material. Let him go. He should have known better and we can blame other people for not having his attention any better than that. Tharpe didn't have enough personal pride and respect for our program because if he did, he wouldn't have done that. More than anything, he let his team down. That is what leaders do? And he didn't just get into that situation over night. He was probably letting that lifestyle rule his consciousness throughout the basketball season. How could that happen without anyone seeing it and intervening? Are there other players on this team with that mindset? Nothing wrong with liking the ladies... but come on... he made a gigantic mistake.

Self should take responsibility for that. I would if I was coach. He hasn't taken that on because this isn't his team. There is a chain of command, and it starts at the top. If he isn't held accountable, what example does that set for his players? These years Self has been at KU play a big part of his coaching legacy. He can't sweep stuff like this under his rug.

He shouldn't wait for people to finally figure it out and realize accountability starts at the top. He should be proactive and mention he is accountable and responsible for keeping these kids directed positively. No one is expecting these boys to become altar boys... but we do expect them to maintain themselves in public arenas, like the internet. And also to focus most of their direction on their education and basketball. If that is too much trouble, I'm sure we can scholarship other players who maintain a little more discipline.

I just feel like Self has become too complacent. He's become too mellow. He's not hungry enough for the big prize. Winning one title has spoiled him. All media talks about him being a shoe in as a hall of famer. I think it may have gotten to him and he is having a hard time staying focused on the big prize. Can't expect his players to have more focus than him, and what was crystal clear to everyone this year is the lack of focus this team had.

The only real game we had focus and purpose was that Texas home game. Everything else was an exercise... just going through the motions.

I can point to many problem areas from this past season; lack of PG leadership, lack of team focus, lack of motivation, lack of effort, lack of a chip... it all eventually must point to the top. Under the right coaching and leadership, these areas will not become a problem.

It also feels like Self is distant from his players. Seems he is away too much recruiting or being on TV... something... but he didn't seem close enough to his players. It is obvious, now, he wasn't close enough with Tharpe, our team captain.

So I have issues in some areas... but I want them to be taken as construction criticism. I want Self to remain at Kansas... I just want to see more out of him, just like I want to see more out of his players.

Let's win it all next year... or let's lose after giving it our complete all! But enough with these half efforts and looking like deer in the headlights and then not changing to meet the challenge. That was the really horrible part about the Stanford game. They didn't do anything so great to beat us, but after the game started showing a definite negative trend against us, we didn't execute a different strategy.

@icthawkfan316

I was fortunate enough to have the very best coach during my youth. I absolutely put him on the level of Wooden. Maybe better. My coach went 10 years of basketball coaching without suffering a loss. Believe it or not. He didn't lose a game until he got stuck with me and the band of gypsies that were with me. He eventually even made us winners.

He had only one magic gift that counted more than all the tactical skills, practice skills and game coaching of any of the coaches in this conversation. He couldn't recruit like Calipari, he couldn't develop like Self, and he couldn't game coach like Izzo.

But what he did know how to do was mentor players. That's why after tonight's game, I'll phone him up still... he's approaching 80 years of age. He has players calling him every week from all over the globe.

If you want to find an issue with Self, look no further than the sex photo Naadir posted online. No player can do that who has total respect for his coach. I would have rather castrated myself than humiliate myself in front of my mentor. This should explain where the problem is.

My coach got his start from coaching boys at a boys' farm. He took all the troubled kids, and within a short time he not only had them playing excellent basketball, he had them doing everything they could to turn their lives around because it would kill them to dissatisfy their coach. I was in the same boat. I was a troubled kid until I met this man and to this day I continue to thank him for turning my life around. And though his health is not good, he made a long travel to come visit me last fall after the birth of my son. He said he wanted to be the first coach to recruit him.

We all seem to think that winning a few games in March makes these guys great. It has nothing to do with greatness.

We can all question coaching philosophies and what not. But what makes a coach great is his ability to mentor players and create a following of believers. Start there and build confidence. Build confidence and grow self-worth. Grow self-worth and develop a work ethic. Develop a work ethic and learn a philosophy. Learn a philosophy and master execution. Master execution and never lose. Never lose and always win!

Now you have a great coach.

@nuleafjhawk

Maybe you should at least follow the score on the internet. If Kentucky loses quickly flip it on. You definitely want to watch Cal cry and whine about losing. Make sure and have a nice aged cheddar available to consume with all that whine.

I thought about taking an old picture tube console TV out with me to the country.... if Kentucky wins I'll nail the tube with my double-barrel 12-guage. Repeatedly.

I doubt I'll put that much effort into this... if I did I would make sure and videotape it all so I can put it on the internet for 99.9% of America to enjoy.

@justanotherfan

Very solid post! You did your work on that one and supported your points well.

Cal didn't have as much talent going back to UMASS days, but I doubt he played a tough SOS. Still... hard to argue he isn't successful in March, regardless if seasons were vacated. He still had to win those games.

His dribble-drive is the right offense for the level of talent he brings in. Just look at Kentucky right now. No one has been able to stop the twins or Young from driving the paint and either scoring or drawing fouls. That is their strategy, and when teams totally pull their defenses back Kentucky nails the 3, especially to win the games at the end.

I'm anxious for tonight's game. I'm hoping we see the same UCONN team that showed up for Michigan State. If UCONN brings all that energy, Kentucky's backcourt will be put to their ultimate test.

I'm going UCONN on Monday night.

I'm taking their guard play and going with x-axis basketball to beat y-axis basketball once again.

It is going to be tough, against all that NBA talent and height.

But as long as the refs don't decide this game with bad blocking calls... I'm confident in the little guys!

So what are your thoughts on picking the winner?

@wissoxfan83

Sorry... heck... I just caught this! But a great read none the less.

I grew up with a neighbor from Wisconsin... he told it to me like this... "I'm from Swissconsin!"

He told me that after he knew my family spent a couple weeks in Switzerland every summer to visit family.

We always had conversation about cheese... I was (and am) a huge cheese lover.

I'm still in shock that Bo didn't figure out a better way to utilize Kaminsky. I was hoping he was get outside and pop some 3s. I felt like that was a factor, and the other factor were all those block calls going against the Badgers.

@wissoxfan83

"So to answer the question, Red and Blue pills combined make purple so I will take purple, a little of both!"

You scare me with that... we definitely don't like purple in here! hahahe...

I'm watching the game yesterday with my wife and during the first half I told her that the Badgers will be in this game unless they miss at the FT line.

Sure enough... wasn't it their only miss at the line down the stretch... missing the one that ended up making them one short after Harrison hit his 3?

@Hawk8086

Now you've opened up a different can of worms...

What matters most... to be the best conference team or be the best March Madness team?

We've had this discussion in here before. I've always praised Self for bringing home 10 straight. So I guess I value conference play more.

But others in here value March more. I don't think you can easily have it both ways. Even Calipari's method of recruiting the most talent doesn't seem to be the best way to go for conference trophies. And UCONN often has way to little overall talent and depth to be a good conference team. They just count on their PG and guard play to come on by March.

Conference play and March play really are two different seasons.

We have to pick which one is most important, then apply Self's methods to success.

I think Self may be the best conference coach of all times. And his is on his way to proving it with his streak!

But I don't put him at the top of my March coaches list.

Heck... what coach would be at the top of both lists? Maybe Wooden?

@HighEliteMajor

Bravo for the way you framed your post! Very creative, and it is hard to continue to talk about this subject framed differently, but you succeeded!

BTW, I like what you are doing here. You are, without question, the poster in her most likely to find success in coaching. You know the game, and you are persistent! It really does take hammering this topic over and over to start getting people to remove their Jayhawk glasses. I, too, wear crimson-blue eye coverings... but some things glare out at me and I'm in YOUR corner.

Everything we need to learn from this year's tournament is being shown us here.

Blue pill - We become another Kentucky, and fill our team with potential OADs and try to brute force over the real teachings of basketball with players that are not students attending classes.

Red pill - We learn from UCONN what it takes to be a winning program in March. It is all about developing top notch point guard play.

UCONN leaves a legacy in proving their point as the best March program (overachievers) in recent history. They never had the most talented team when they brought home the trophy (or even close). Let's take a peek in their trophy cabinet:

1999 - Richard Hamilton, a swing forward, was their big scorer. He was excellent, and steals much of the credit, along with the tournament MVP, but it didn't happen without PG Khalid El-Amin... a 5'10" fullback who knew how to drive the ball, protect the ball, create assists, and could score. He was a true leader and averaged 13.8 PPG, 3.9 APG and 1.6 SPG. That last number counts big. Khalid put pressure on the ball and made it tough for teams to run offense... like what you witnessed yesterday with Florida.

2004 - UCONN was actually one of the favorites in this tournament, and I believe they were a 2-seed. They were very well balanced, but were lead by 6'1" PG Taliek Brown, who is UConn's all-time assists leader with 722 in 134 games.

2011 - Who has forgotten Kemba Walker? 6'1" PG who carried this team all the way to the trophy. He was the MOP of the 2011 tourney by a land slide. Shabazz was a freshman that year, and the experience of the tourney, and playing with Kemba surely helped him and UCONN get to this year's championship game.

This year's UCONN would be nothing without Shabazz.

The 2008 Jayhawk team was loaded with talent, but it would have underachieved had it not been for their guard play. It took a miracle shot and overtime to beat a highly inferior team that had one super freshman PG in Rose. Had Rose been a senior, I'm doubtful KU would have won that game.

I'm not ready to anoint Calipari, King of College Basketball.

He is working with a minimum of 6 5-star recruits that are in that total top tier.

Basketball has changed, and these stars coming in aren't like the stars of the past. They have received a heck of a lot more coaching, and by quality coaches... AAU ball... tourneys, tourneys, tourneys with other all-stars. They even leave their home towns to go to specialized high schools that have superior coaching and play top talent.

And let's not forget Cal's kids don't go to class. They have 24-7 to work on basketball, and that is what they do.

Compare that with a coach with 4-yr players. Those 4-yr players actually go to class and graduate. They haven't had most of the bball experience leading up to college like these stars have. They don't have near the upside, so improvements come slow... like strength.

Examine Withey's story again. He worked his backside off in the weight room and he was pounding calories to gain weight. He did get a lot stronger in the (what was it) 3 years he was a Jayhawk. Still... he can work in the gym forever and may not catch the strength of a player like Randle.

Calipari's own peers... other college coaches... rank him in the middle on X's and O's. That's where I have him, too.

There is no other coach in college basketball today we can compare him to, because no one else gets anywhere near his elite talent. Kansas wasn't even close this year. We may have the two top picks in the coming draft... so what... Kentucky has 5 or 6. Compare Kentucky's backcourt with Kansas... are you kidding me? Granted... I do believe Cal has improved his coaching strategies with OADs, but I'm still not putting him in the Top 50 of D1 coaches.

Give me that problem. Make me a head coach and give me all those cream of the cream players.

People start talking about putting Calipari up there with coaches like Bobby Knight or John Wooden. Are you kidding me?

He is doing a great job of stripping all the real teachings out of the game by over-riding the key aspects with insane talent and brute force. Kentucky isn't playing basketball... they are playing some version of pro ball at the college level.

Take their story and go teach your kid basketball. Good friggin' luck. There isn't anything to teach. Either your kid can grow to size of banging his head on the ceiling or he is out of the picture.... or smash cocoanuts open with his bare fists.

You've seen Kentucky dismantle real teams in the tournament... teams that took 4 and 5 years to build into real teams. Taken down by a group of all stars who don't even go to class.

Maybe we should totally pull back from recruiting that top tier.

This can be fixed by the NCAA monitoring these athletes and making them attend and pass real classes. No more basket weaving... Western Civ... English... Calculus... Let's see them in real classes and passing them while working on their game. Kentucky would be nothing. Let them have 12 McDs AAs... they can't win without working around the clock on gaining some chemistry. Then... I might believe Cal can coach. Even then... give me those talented guys and let me work with them...

I'm afraid this championship game will be decided by refs.

Will the Harrison twins still get those blocking calls going their way when they drive on Napier and Boatright?

This is what will determine the game. If the twins and Young start getting nailed for charges, they will have foul trouble and any offense for Kentucky will be cut off. If that happens (and it should because they all constantly charge, even by NBA standards), this game could get ugly. Kentucky will get smoked horribly.

If it goes the other way, and Kentucky is able to drive on the best defending guards in college basketball, they can get the UCONN guards in foul trouble and then it gets ugly for UCONN.

I know the refs want to make a statement for this year, and their whistle goes right up the corporate ladder to numbnuts Emmert, who believes the tourney is still missing a few fans because their isn't enough offense. If that is the case, then Kentucky can do what they have done all tournament long, and beat much better teams than theirs... along with shelling out the fundamentals of the game with brute force. There is a reason why Bobby Knight hates Kentucky.

I'm sure Emmert is pulling for Kentucky anyways. Kentucky will be building a sport media empire within the next 10 years and will extend the Big Blue Nation. Fans that aren't a part of the BBN tend to hate them. This will become the biggest rivalry in all sports on the planet... UK vs The World! That is the ultimate goal and I bet there are billions and billions of dollars to be made beyond where college basketball is right now!

I'll reference one of my previous posts....

Great guard play (especially from the PG) wins championships in March.

I can't believe people still don't get UCONN. Shabazz is the replacement for Kembo. You get guards that have kryptonite running through their veins in March, who can execute on offense and play nagging defense, and you will win a NC.

UCONN's backcourt kept Florida out of any real offense all day. Wilbekin (who is a good, seasoned PG) could rarely penetrate or make proper feeds. He even had his pocket picked... something you never see from Wilbekin.

UCONN is a guard school. Big men make a bigger impact during conference seasons. But in March, with the high pressure coming on these teams, you need execution on the perimeter.

Guard execution is what makes it possible for a player like Daniels to dominate.

I'm a big fan because this is X-axis beating Y-axis... maybe if they win on Monday, more folks will start understanding what I'm talking about and realize Kansas won't be winning another NC without real guard play. No more combo guards at point!

This UCONN team would have murdered Kansas in March... with or without Embiid. The big light should have come on when they handled MSU... a seasoned team with great coach that had all the pieces to win it all.

Nice... a thread comparing TRob and Bam Bam.

I agree with a lot of what Coach HEM stated..... especially concerning size. TV never showed what a beast TRob was. If you've seen both of them live you see a huge difference in girth.

Where I may differ slightly from HEM is I'm more confident of Bam Bam's future. Bam Bam also has one talent that even far exceeds TRob.... foot speed! We witnessed several scoring moves from BB (Bam Bam) that was as impressive as they get from a 4. Those plays were impressive because of BBs foot speed.

Now... if BB can be coached properly between now and next fall, he can become a huge offensive player if he puts in serious reps this summer on moves to the rim. The guy can even shoot FTs... maybe he can shoot 3s? You just never know until a player puts in reps. We see what Kieff did.

On the defensive side of the ball, BB needs to stop fouling. Fouls have limited his minutes and aggressiveness all year. He mostly needs to improve his basketball IQ.

TRob still had a little better motor, and he definitely knew how to hustle rebounds far and away better than BB.

It isn't fair to prejudge BBs future. He has very little basketball behind him, and has made crazy improvements in his game in just a short while. Might not be on the speed level improvement of Embiid... but Embiid had a life of other sports, like soccer, to help his footwork.

1988 Championship game.... I was in Delkenheim (a suburb of Wiesbaden), West Germany. At that time, there was an East and a West Germany.

I was fortunate enough to be visiting friends who had access to an American (military) TV channel that aired the championship game. I sat alone in their living room while they slept. I think the game ended after 5am... so I had to manage by stuffing pillows in my mouth to stay quiet.

After our victory I left their house through their backyard, into an open field and just kept walking... until I was far out of reach of any houses... and I let out my loudest scream!

I've never been a union man. I come from a "right to work" state (Kansas), and for probably a majority of residents in our state we've never directly felt impacted by union progress.

I don't know how we talk about this without getting political... but someone has to let the fart out of the room. The air is stale with recent news about the direction of college sports.

I may not be a union man, but I support more rights for student athletes. It is hard to sit quietly while student athletes put their health (and futures) at risk for high profits they will never share in. What comes to mind most with me is their lack of health insurance beyond their playing days in school. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to realize that sports injuries suffered during playing days in college will linger on with these athletes throughout their lives, yet the border for their health coverage stops when they leave campus.

The NCAA has not kept up with the times, and perhaps for obvious reasons. While they sit quietly in their offices, college sports revenues from a plethora of sources, has climbed far beyond the revenues generated in many economies of foreign nations.

And we, the sports fan, are once again, caught in the middle of a fight that will most-likely never be resolved properly in our lifetimes. We know what can happen when players unions and team management buck horns. The result is a bad brand of cigarettes, burning noxious cancerous smoke into the lungs of fans everywhere... let's just call it right this time... "Unlucky Strikes!"

So on one side, we have the David in the fight:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/02/sports/ncaafootball/a-primer-on-northwestern-players-quest-to-unionize.html?hpw&rref=sports&_r=0 ↗

A small victory for the little guy... potentially the right to form organized labor.

And on the other side we have the apathetic Goliath in the fight:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2014/04/03/college-basketball-tournament-nancy-armour-mark-emmert/7265843/ ↗

It appears the courtroom gavel has awaken NCAA President Mark Emmert from his long, lengthy nap on his kindergarten rug (which conveniently resides on his scalp).

"If you're not getting sued today," he said, "you're not doing anything."

Well, I don't know about any of you guys out there, but I'm not getting sued today in my business. Oh, sorry, I forgot, the NCAA is not a business, it is an institution in need of itself being institutionalized (preferably in a padded cell).

Imagine the day when Jayhawk basketball goes on strike!

Could another form of governance come to the rescue of college sports today?

Does Mark Emmert have a partially-clad photo of Vladimir Putin on horseback nearby for admiration purposes?

Filmed at 11...

I guess I am not the only one who sees the potential for a separation soon of David and Goliath... Dan Gavitt of the NCAA sees the potential from the broader scope of regs changes to offer college athletes more benefits.

Now if we could zoom in tighter to specific programs, like Kentucky, then ask ourselves... "is this good for college basketball?"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2014/04/03/college-basketball-tournament-future-governance-restructuring/7265519/ ↗

I have to admit to only catching minutes of Badgers games before March. Since March, I've caught most of their action and found myself in a man-crush with Frank Kaminsky.

I love his long ball. It's something to have a 7-footer who can nail the long ball. 42.9% from 3? Are you kidding me?

I hope he can go 100% from 3 against Kentucky. Suddenly, UKs 'no player shorter than 6'6"' concept doesn't add up to a hill of beans (or the sum of presumed impact a hill of beans could have on someone's lower tract)!

Back in the late '70s I spent a summer in London and Reading. Punk was where it was at... it was all about young people intentionally bucking the system because their government was trying to kick them off welfare. They were forced to seek employment (most for the first time) so they went for outrageous, shocking looks to make sure they weren't hired and allowed to keep their welfare.

Can't say I ever agreed with them on that part... but I enjoyed all the expressionism of the times. And it help pave the way for a music revolution, we call "punk rock."

I saw some totally insane things. 4-ft high hair spikes.... studded everything, from clothing to skin. Also real spikes... spikes became huge and people were having spikes implanted all throughout their faces.

Total insanity.

@JRyman

Found a couple of links that relate... first... on The Clash website, a complete run down of their entire tour history.

http://www.theclash.com/gb/gigs ↗

And it shows the concert you were talking about, with a link for people who went to the concert to mingle and share photos.

http://www.songkick.com/concerts/893143-clash-at-austin-city-coliseum?utm_source=3001&utm_medium=partner ↗

Wow... sweet... Bob Marley! Never caught him either, but would have liked to. My music interests are extremely broad, and all the bands you mention I am a big fan of, too.

@RockChalkinTexas

I am well aware of the "Rock The Casbah" video.. it is, by far, my favorite all-time music video! I was, and am, a huge Clash fan! Always loved the British invasion... especially punk!

Thanks... I had no idea they made this video down in Austin. Did you catch them live? I never did, and I regret that.

@wissoxfan83

Thanks for the link.... guess I'll be watching TruTV!

@JRyman

Interesting reply.

These folks do exist. In our situation it felt like our size slowed down the guys we ran into. After plenty of talk, we convinced them we weren't from the gubment... we weren't from the tax office or the ATF. We weren't there to confiscate their stills. So they cracked open a gallon milk jug of shine. I've done plenty of hard shots in my life, but that stuff blistered my throat. I've heard from many who live near these areas that moonshine should actually be quite smooth and tasty. That wasn't my experience.

@JRyman

This link is for you -

30 years ago I had a "deliverance-like" situation on the Buffalo River in Arkansas. Fortunately, I was traveling with a true power forward. Sometimes... size matters!

Only one thing pops in my head on this thread -