Why does this require a waiver (moving forward)?
Just take it on as an early exhibition game and replace one of those silly in-state games.
I think we could still use it as a fundraiser... which would probably buy Kansas more positive PR than just financially capitalizing on another game.
What are the chances this happens every year? I'd enjoy hearing from people on that.
If it does happen, will it remain in this format? I thought this was the perfect format. Venue is neutral and safe. Raises funds for a cause. By doing it so early we get a real competitive game so we can jump out of the blocks quickly when our season starts.
I do believe this game represents an additional huge advantage we have for winning the Big 12 every year. One of our strategies is to get out of the blocks quickly and this game helps us accomplish that.
I'm Ready For Antlers Again!
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Bring it on, antlers!
Do we login using our KUBuckets credentials? Or do we have to register on slack?
First.. Doke can still earn his way onto that list. He hasn't shown the outside world enough of anything to prove he belongs on that list.
Doke needs to prove himself. That is great for all of us! He needs to show he can do more than dunk. He needs to show he can seal the boards and rebound. He needs to show he can defend (without fouling). He needs to show he can pass from the post. He needs to show he has stamina, too.
Doke is a work in progress. We all need to temper our expectations and just let him develop. He has plenty of rough areas... his footwork is marginal. But his potential is off-the-charts! I've always been high on Doke, even when he was just a recruit.
I'm thinking he will be a huge help to us by the end of the year and hopefully much sooner. But we do really have to wait and see. I'm still fearful of playing teams that use "hack a doke" as a strategy to come back in games.
"We should play MU because the game evokes passion like no other opponent."
Dang right! We can't manufacture that with these artificial rivalries... like KU vs UK. Yes... that is a great game, too, but in no way comes even close to the intensity of this historic rivalry.
"Open their minds, recalculate, and reconsider."
That is exactly what I did a couple years ago. When Mizzou left our conference I said "don't let the door hit you in the arse." And when they wanted to play again I was on board with saying "no."
After time went by I realized just how bad we need this rivalry. The only negative to this is the possibility we could lose to a lower team and hurt our rankings. But now we can even eliminate that by keeping this as a exhibition game.
IMHO, we need all the tough games we can schedule. We need the intensity of this challenge in order to prep for March and even prep for Big 12 play.
Let's just keep it like this... at Sprint Center every year so it is neutral and no funny business from the lowlife antlers.
Yesterday felt like a March game. It was exciting to watch and helpful for our guys to get a game like this in. And now Bill can address our horrid rebounding and marginal defense.
Still don't see the full replay of the game on youtube. When that gets posted it would be great if someone throws it up on KUBuckets.
"I still wish KU would’ve played WSU as opposed to selling out."
Don't fret it. The word is this fundraiser was a huge success... opening the door for future fundraising "scrimmages."
Great chance we will play the "Shawkers" someday!
lol
HawkChamp
That's the hope... especially after today.
Bill is going to chew some serious arse over poor rebounding. Also... mediocre defense.
This can be expected before the season, but it helps to have something like this to create the opportunity for Bill to do some heavy correctional coaching.
A lot of disjointed play. Something you have to expect in November... uh... oh yeah, it's only October!
"Was it worth it?"
I'll tell you after the Kentucky game.
I have huge time lags.... anyone else? This isn't watchable. Checked my speed and it is fine... it is on their end.
Will Arizona have enough coaching staff left to be competitive this year? lol
Here is the link for streaming the game ($40) -
OU will probably cause some teams some problems this year. I'm more worried about them next year, if they stay healthy and keep adding more talent than subtracting.
Or watch it streamed for $40 -
I guess the server liked my message enough to post it 3 times. Ha... sorry everyone.
Any of our guys who will get out there and really hustle... play hard defense... seal off the boards... keep the ball from sticking on offense... execute, execute, execute.... will get plenty of minutes.
I'm sick and tired of hearing about potential. It's nice to have dreams. But I want to win. I want to win now. Any player bringing game right now deserves to be on the court... NOW!
Every day I'm in shock that athletes still get treated like slaves. I know, I know... the top athletes make hundreds of millions... but those are the exceptions and not what I am talking about.
Imagine any of you having rules about how you proceed with your ability to make a living? You wouldn't like it. The pathway from college to the NBA should be without too many rules. The excuses for binding athletes always claims to be in their best interest. Hogwash! These kids are risking their financial futures every day by playing in college. Heck... they can get hurt and not even guaranteed long-term health insurance, even if their injuries suffered while making millions for the college network are ongoing into their futures, long after leaving college.
How relevant is it that an athlete goes out and makes money, changing their status to "pro" then later not being paid... and why can't that athlete go back to school? There are all kinds of loopholes where this already happens. Didn't Xavier Henry's brother already make money in baseball before coming here legally as a basketball player? Maybe it was earnings put into an irrevocable trust?
Each player will receive a participation ribbon... just like sports leagues are doing for kids now.
LOL
I believe it is quite a legal process to get something like this done.
However... TV networks and sports production companies are setup to push through the paperwork quickly.
In this particular case... I'm not sure Kansas wants this scrimmage to be overly publicized. This event somehow falls outside our current position on playing MU regularly.
You know what would be a great thing? That we use this "game" as the framework to build an annual rivalry game where much of the proceeds are used for social purposes!
That would be a huge positive PR move by both universities!
This rivalry would IMMEDIATELY shove to the top for being THE college basketball rivalry of America!
Why can't Kansas start leading the nation in basketball off the court?
Spot on with your post. Roy should be better than this.
My only hopes are that when UNC makes their next Final Four, the sparkly sports media will run a short clip on UNC's "struggle." They use that stuff to put "sports drama" into the production.
That's all I'm hoping for now. Pitiful.
If this happened at Kansas I would be crawling out of my skin. I'd probably sue the university for degrading the reputation of my coursework there.
Students pay a fortune for their accredited education, and this is what they get? Sure gives credence to online diploma mills... at least you can go that path without financing your life away.
The traditional university education is under heat now. The future of these magical places is unknown.
All of this makes me sick.
My longest stint was with a small team in The Netherlands. At the second level. I think it matches up well in comparison to a decent D2 team. This was back in the 90s. I was very well paid (lol). I'd often receive free transportation, hotels and meals!
I'm sure there are others in here that have at least this level of competitive basketball in their past.
So what happens if we lose the scrimmage?
We will never hear the end of it. Never.
And then we are just going to remain silent and distant while being called "Chickenhawks" by the entire world?
I convinced myself long ago we need to kick this rivalry back up. It is a huge national event that has Kansas basketball in it. It's always real games instead of just another milktoast game. It can only help us get ready for March.
And actually, NOW is the time to bring it back so we can bump off the UK vs UL game as THE big rivalry game in college basketball. Someone is going to step up and take that mantle now. Might as well be us. Otherwise... it will be Duke vs UNC.
Can it go that way?
Do you think the Mizzou players can go back on campus with their heads held high after playing a fluff game with Kansas?
I believe they are getting a lot of heat to really go all out and kick our arses. Meanwhile, we are treating this like an all-star game....
Today, UNC was placed on probation by the NCAA. They will be restricted from making and consuming smores for two seasons. All UNC players are considering their options.
No Courage Athletic Association... or perhaps money changed hands.
And where is the Department of Justice?
This is the kind of BS that makes me want to turn off college basketball!
I am perplexed with Bill's change of heart.
I never threw away my old deer antler rack I used to stick in my grill when visiting Columbia. Guess I can dust that off.
Question for everyone... how long before the regular season rivalry is restored?
Bring it on! ;)
wissox said:
@justanotherfan I think anyone playing at a DI level is elite athletic.
I can agree with that. I played ball for decades at a certain level. Then I jumped to some euroball and was pushed into condition that I never knew I had in me. I thought I knew training before.... but obviously I didn't.
I always had a high vertical. But after being pushed, I brought it up another 3 inches or so. That is 3 extra inches of "athleticism." God didn't just grant that to me, I went out and fought for it.
The level of ball I played is nothing compared to D1, especially at Kansas. I'm thinking our guys must work themselves into incredible condition. Their athleticism increases while at Kansas. I'm sure it works the same in other D1 programs.
Back in my college days, I dated a track star. We would train together and she would have me jump on her back while she would do 100 calf raises with each leg on a stair stepper. That's 210 lbs on her back!
I don't know about walk-ons... but I'm willing to say all D1 athletes are "elite" to some level. It just matters who you want to compare them to. I trained hard my whole life but not at their level of training. So in my comparison, all these athletes are elite!
We live in a weird world. Just a couple years ago I was putting the idea up that we should restart the border war because real rivals can't be manufactured by shoeco marketeers. I stated a level of envy at the UK vs UL rivalry. Didn't take them many years of playing again to label it "the greatest rivalry in college basketball."
Look how everything seems to be flipping. The UK vs UL rivalry is under threat because of UL's troubles. Meanwhile... suddenly Kansas has a reason to play Missouri again. I wondered how long it would take for this rivalry to return. When people fall in love, it is really tough to keep them apart. The same can be said for people who hate each other. Throw in all the publicity... and money... and now we have...
"AMERICA'S RIVALRY!" Yes... the new marketing slogan for this. And it does fit. It's about hate, money and fame! Ha... Bring it on! lol
But seriously, you all know that if we lose this game we will be pushed right back into the rivalry again. You think we will sleep good at night with a smackdown hanging over us?
This is like the alcoholic who swears he/she can have just one again.
Me, too... I've got my fingers working out every day and have increased my typing speed and stamina dramatically! My finger vertical leaping height is off-the-charts at 6"! lol
Hey... welcome back!
Hard to predict. I always fail because it is too hard to predict injuries, off-court troubles, team chemistry... at least, these are my excuses for sucking at analysis!
Thought these links were interesting reads on all of this -
http://www.pjfperformance.net/2014/09/30/role-athleticism-todays-game/ ↗
http://www.pjfperformance.net/2013/04/27/the-evolution-of-jumping/ ↗
This was fun to watch and had good points -
Funny you mention Larry Bird because I was thinking about him while starting this thread.
I was fortunate enough to see Bird play many times, including at courtside. I was amazed by his play and all I can do to describe his athleticism is to say it was "Bird's athleticism."
Years after that, I had kind of an argument with a former NBA player who told me that Bird was "extremely athletic." This was an argument I quickly lost.
It definitely makes me judge athleticism while considering the player's body. When thinking that way... Bird was an amazingly athletic! Man... I watched him create shooting space on some extremely gifted defenders. I know we can all say it was just technique and execution.... but I still doubt many other players could do what Bird did because if they could have they would have.
There is no way Bird did all of what he did strictly through technique. If that was the case, others would have countered with defensive technique to stop him and had the advantage with "athleticism."
I hope he takes real ownership of this team and he steps up big. The tools are there, he just needs to stay focused and confident.
Kind of makes you wonder... we see all the big bucks given to programs on top of the table. How much cash is given to players/families/coaches/others under the table? I'm curious to know the ratio. I think we all may be surprised just how big it is.... under the table!
It would be great if we could define and bring together all the key elements to the game. Put it in a list, in a graph, and develop a perceived grading of our guys. Point to each player's strengths and weaknesses. I know I always whine the most about players lacking many learned skills... like how to seal the boards, all the levels of hedging and knowing and using all the different fakes.
I'm thinking "athleticism" may best be defined as a description only to be used in context to a general comparison against the masses of other players.
Beyond that... this topic becomes foggy in short fashion. For example... we can state that stamina is an aspect of athleticism. The more stamina a player is, the more athletic. Perhaps? Yet... doesn't basketball IQ play a role in a player's stamina? Don't smart players know where to shave exertion without losing competitiveness in order to maintain a higher energy level?
In order for us to grade athleticism, we must experience it. Players like Lagerald are tagged with great athleticism after we see him perform in motion. There is so much involved in his performance, including self-esteem. We have witnessed his performance improvements each year as he gains more confidence.
I think most of us are willing to say that Jeff Withey improved his athleticism over his stay in Lawrence. His conditioning increased; stronger, thicker body, improved stamina. But would we have really recognized Jeff's improved athleticism if he hadn't also improved his timing and technique for blocking shots? Once Jeff started blocking more shots, everyone started mentioning Hudy and her great skills. No doubt... she helped thicken and strengthen Jeff, so he could fight harder in the paint for position. I doubt any of this would have been recognized without Jeff increasing his basketball IQ relating to technique and timing.
Interesting post.
Not sure I totally understand "God-given abilities?"
I think Hudy does a great job of setting up our guys to get in better condition. And the results are often speed, strength and stamina. Isn't a big chunk of that just based on hard work instead of God-given ability? I do think you can take two players and put them through the exact same workout regiment from Hudy and the results will be different between the two.
Genetics must be a consideration in all of this.... and I'm willing to label genetics with "God-given" as a person of faith. Everyone has their own unique genetic code. A high percentage of fast-twitch muscle seems to help athleticism when relating to playing basketball. If we are talking about long distance running... it might be best to have more slow-twitch muscle and a higher lung capacity.
As far as an overall connection between "athleticism" and "God-given abilities"... I'm just not sure. I'm pretty sure we can go back over the years of Kansas basketball and we can pull out players that can show remarkable athleticism without having to work excessively at it while others had to work extremely hard for every inch of athleticism. The point is... we've always had a mix of both kinds of players. I'm not saying we've had gifted athletes that were lazy. I'm just saying we've had some gifted athletes that would still be gifted athletes even if they didn't work hard playing ball every single day.
What is "athleticism?"
You would think I should know that answer. Sometimes I think I know. Often times, I don't think I know and I don't think we all think of athleticism in the same way.
This subject came to mind this morning after I read this link -
The statement that caught me... "It's worth pointing out, however, Cunliffe may have unseated Lagerald Vick as the best athlete on the team." This statement is linked to the following video:
Wow! Sam has some moves!
As pertaining to basketball... is "athleticism" only relative to vertical leaping height and foot speed?
Based on those two areas, is Sam "more athletic" than Lagerald?
What I experienced from the video footage related more to basketball skill levels... mostly ball handling.
How relative is basketball skill levels in determining a player's athleticism?
So if a player is a dead-eye shooter from trey... does that factor feed into his perceived athleticism level? If so... wouldn't a player's ability to shoot free throws also be a part of that? I think most of us experienced Wilt and tagged him as being "freakishly athletic" even though Wilt couldn't shoot free throws worth a darn! So... players can have big weaknesses in their games and still be defined as being uber athletic?
This thread may seem naive to many. I get that. But I wonder how we all define athleticism. It seems like it would do us all some good if we can come up with a unified definition if for no other purpose than preventing arguments based on comparing apples to oranges.
I hear what you are saying.
I think we all go into a kind of shock at the level of money floating around in sports and business.
Our modern economy is showing an increase in the space between the "haves" and the "have nots."
I don't think most of us "have nots" lose any sleep over not being one of the "haves".... but it should make us all wonder if we will earn enough to just maintain a certain comfortable standard of living.
Personally... think I'd rather go fishing than spend my mornings with investment advisors directing me where to invest my 100's of millions!
Ha... our website is probably seen as some kind of weird perversion in some countries. And I'm pretty sure we see some of those countries as having perverse culture, too. I don't really understand some of those cultures... from binding feet to stretching necks.
Think I'm happy to be where I'm at and enjoying our crimson/blue "perversion!"
This is capitalism. This is business. The 76ers had to compete to keep JoJo. And it is obvious they see JoJo as bringing back a bigger return than their investment.
No one complains about some of these CEOs' pay... and those guys don't risk their health and few even create anything, definitely not the return they cost... but they are in a position of leverage, an elite leverage... and that is part of the capitalist model, too.
I hope Devonte doesn't score as much as Frank. Instead, I'd like to see him have more assists than Frank. Frank was clutch, and a great scorer. Devonte can be a great scorer, too. But Frank often had to take it to the hole because his guys weren't fighting hard enough to get open to score.
We have this concept at Kansas... between players... that "it isn't my turn." That's the concept where you put a bunch of talent on the same team and players have a reason to take plays off. This has bothered me for years.
Players should be good teammates... but should also keep the peddle to the metal. There should be some natural competitiveness between the teammates themselves.
I know players like Josh sort of threw a wrench in this attitude just by being pushed to the top. But look at last year, with our POY point guard... and at times, it reminded me of watching one of Sherron's teams. When players would take plays off because we had Sherron.
My thoughts and hopes... that Malik is cut from a different cloth. I'm hoping he doesn't throttle back his game because this is "Devonte's team." I'm hoping he sets the example that players need to fight hard on every play.
I hope we can inspire you to post regularly. A big part of the success of KUBuckets relates to having fresh ideas in here from different points of view.
He has the potential to be the best player in the country. We've seen that a few times during his 3 years at Kansas.
Question is... will he bring consistency? Will he bring fight every single game?
Welcome aboard!
My biggest question concerning this team is Graham. This is now HIS team. He's never lead a KU team before.
My hopes are that he takes ownership and the responsibilities that go with the job. If he takes it serious, then he will come prepared every game to be "the guy."
We know what he can do. We know what he did to Hield down in Norman. That is the game he needs to bring EVERY game this year!
Frank spent 4 years learning how to be a point guard... one area where he was never "short".... bringing intensity and fight.
True. No way to compare Svi's athleticism against Vick's.
But a lot of this is hustle and having a player's mind properly focused. Even slower guys can usually play good defense... they just don't have the ability to make up for slacking off or from making a mistake.
Recall last year when we caught the vid on Svi actually buckling down on a quick guard. He even hedged a bit... something rare to see with Self players.