🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@drgnslayr

Tons of good stuff here.

The first thing you notice about the GS offense is that the guys that can shoot are always spacing the floor for each other.

In almost every clip, you see Thompson and either Barnes or Iguodala in the corner, dragging their man away from the action at the top of the key. If you help off either corner, you are immediately hurt with either an open three or a drive off the pump fake.

Golden State creates what is known as gravity. Their shooters keep defenders close because you can't give any of them open looks. Selden, Greene and Svi can do the same for KU.

The other thing that really stands out is that there is rarely a post man in Golden State's offense. The lane stays open, even when Bogut is on the floor. Golden State wants the lane free so that when a guy rolls on a screen, there is no defender waiting in the lane. There's some nifty action around the 3:30 mark in the video where Bogut, Livingston and Green are all up high working a screen weave set. Curry and Thompson (the only two classic "shooters" on the floor) are spaced to the corners, meaning every defender is at least 15 feet away from the basket. Bogut sets a down screen for Curry and the entire defense breaks down. Everybody runs to guard the most dangerous man on a basketball floor right now (Steph Curry running to the three point line) and nobody goes with Bogut as he slips the screen. The threat of the three gives Golden State an easy lob for a layup.

In fact, as you watch the video, you see Golden State score inside fairly often, but instead of scoring on post ups, they score on lobs, back door cuts, straight line drives, and fast breaks.

The crazy thing is that KU already runs some of the same stuff that Golden State runs. Golden State runs a high weave (seen from about 4:45 to 5:15). KU runs that same action. The only modification is that Golden State runs it on an arc, while KU runs it flat.

Golden State runs the high pick and roll between the circles (a basketball staple. The difference is that they raise their other post man to clear the lane for the roller, while KU spaces the other post player to the short wing sometimes. By raising both posts and putting shooters in the corners, Golden State clears the lane for backcuts by the shooters on overplays or rolls by their big men (particularly Bogut and Ezeli).

GS also screens a lot with their wing shooters screening for their bigs. They get tons of layups and dunks when a big man gets caught "in between", not sure whether to stay out and challenge the shooter (typically Curry, Barnes or Thompson) or stay on the big man as he pops out (typically this is Green). KU could do the same with Greene and Svi screening for either Ellis or Bragg, both of whom can handle the ball and hit jumpers.

Golden State forces defenders into impossible decisions. Because they keep the floor spread with shooters you either help and deal with the open threes or give up layups. For most teams this year, neither option has worked.

@drgnslayr

Both financial impact and media coverage.

Imagine that in mid October next year KU is 7-0, getting ready to go to Norman for a game with Oklahoma. KU already has wins against TCU, Baylor and Oklahoma State. If they beat OU, they are suddenly in the driver's seat in the Big 12. Gameday is going to Norman to cover the unlikely rise of KU. They are on campus in Lawrence all week doing lead up stories.

Fast forward a few weeks, KU is home against Texas. They are 10-0 now with just a home game with the Horns and a road game at K-State left between them and the likely playoff. KU is the lead story on every sports station as people debate if KU is for real and whether they should be in the playoff if they close out the season with two wins. The debate is how KU matches up in a potential playoff and where they should be seeded.

Fast forward a few more weeks, the season is over. Heisman has been handed out. KU is in the playoff and everybody is talking about KU facing some big powerhouse. The Cinderella story gets cranked up. Every sports outlet is doing some story on KU, whether its Beaty's history, or Clint Bowen sticking around, or the story surrounding the current stars, or how the program was resurrected. But everyone is covering KU in some way, and the stories run through the entire holiday/bowl season.

Halftime of every bowl game looks ahead to the playoff. What's the big story? KU of course. The bowls are basically a running promotional video for KU for two straight weeks, and that's on top of everything that has run over the previous six weeks.

A basketball title can't match that unless KU was undefeated going into the tournament. An undefeated basketball season would be the only way to match any football title.

Football.

The gains from a football title at KU in terms of money would be enormous.

The recruiting advantage for the next several years would be huge. The national notoriety would be insane.

If KU wins a basketball title, that would be a story, but KU is a basketball school. Nobody would freak out about it.

If KU went from 0-12 to national champion that wouldn't just be a story, that would be the story for months. Just being in the hunt for the Big XII title and being in line for going undefeated and getting into the playoff would be a huge story from probably late October on through the bowl season and to the title game.

The amount of extra coverage for KU would be something that a basketball title just could not match. Not knocking a basketball title, but a football title would be an amazing jump in visibility for KU overall, not just in sports, but in the general view of public opinion.

I would personally probably enjoy a basketball title more. But for the overall benefit of KU, it's football by (several) miles.

@JayHawkFanToo

I have seen that Howard wants a trade. Unfortunately, his age and injuries have robbed him of his bounce, as @Makeshift has pointed out. In addition, the Rockets offense is much better when based around Harden's skillset than when it is revolving around Howard. Howard probably can't carry a league average offense at this point in his career because he can't dominate with athleticism on that end.

Howard is probably a 16 and 12 guy at this point in an ideal situation. Houston isn't ideal for him, but he could do a lot worse before he does better. He could average 19-10 for a non-contender if he's interested in that. Just depends on what he wants at this point in his career.

@Crimsonorblue22

I believe the threshold is 30% of games/matches. He was pretty close to that and likely would have exceeded that in the next 3 or 4 games. I'm guessing that is why he chose to shut it down now.

@JayHawkFanToo

Again, we are looking at touches, not just TO in isolation. Durant is the primary offensive option for his team. Ditto for Griffin and Cousins. Okafor, Gasol and Lopez are all the #2 scoring option for their teams (sometimes the #1). Howard is the one guy out of that group that turns the ball over a lot considering the amount of touches he gets.

Withey is never more than the third option offensively on the floor at any time. Usually, he's the fourth or fifth option. If you are the fourth or fifth option, you cannot turn the ball over. His 0.7 isn't horrible, but considering he only averages about 10 minutes a game, If he played 30 minutes, he would be up near the Griffin and Lopez numbers for turnovers, but not balancing that out with scoring.

Howard averages 12 (but with 11 rebounds). Durant averages 27. Cousins averages 25. Gasol averages 16. Okafor gets 18 a night. Lopez tosses in 19. Griffin gets 24. You can't compare Withey's turnovers to those guys when he likely won't score more than 10 or so, while the rest of those guys (other than Howard) are scoring 16 or more, and Griffin, Cousins and Durant are three of the best scorers in the league.

@brooksmd

Not dismissing that at all. Just recognizing the reality of the NBA, that if you are not a star/starting caliber player, you cannot afford to make many mistakes.

Nick Collison has had a very nice, very long (and productive) career in the NBA in large part because he doesn't make many mistakes. He's sound on both ends of the floor, doesn't turn the basketball over and doesn't cause problems on or off the court.

That's life for a pro role player. 9 points, 5 boards, 2 blocks is nice, but costing them 2 possessions a night with turnovers (after all, he's probably only getting 10-12 touches on offense a night) is pretty bad.

The issue for Withey is whether he can avoid being a zero on the offensive end.

He's not going to be a big time scorer, but if he can hit open jumpers and dunk, he will be okay.

The key item I see on his stat line is 2 TO. He cannot turn the basketball over. He is not going to be good enough offensively to cost his team possessions. His 2 TO tied for most on the team along with the three primary ball handlers (Burke, Hood and Neto). That's a disaster for a big guy. If he cleans that up, he can be an effective bench big. If not, he will not make the rotation.

We should be able to handle Breunig. He's sort of like a mid major Perry Ellis. He handles the ball well and generally can dominate that level of competition, but he should not overwhelm us.

This is a game where we should be able to get out to a lead early and get minutes for guys that have been struggling to see action, particularly a guy like Legerald Vick. I would like to see him get 12-15 minutes of run in this one to see how far along he is for playing at the D1 level.

@jaybate-1.0

I would anticipate that for most Montanaians, playing at Montana is the best they can do for D1. They aren't being recruited to places like KU and the other elites, so they probably tend to land at Montana and other schools in the area. KU recruits nationally, so they won't necessarily land many Kansans.

Wichita State has five Kansans on their roster - Baker, Frankamp, Wessel, Zach Bush, and Brett Barney.

K-State has six Kansans on their roster - Mason Schoen, Zach Winter, Pierson McAtee, Dean Wade, Brian Roehleder and Austin Burke.

KU has only 4 Kansans, and three are walk-ons - Ellis, Manning, Self and Clay Young.

The competition for a spot on the KU roster is much stiffer than a spot at Montana, or WSU or KSU. You're competing with players from literally the entire world for every single roster spot. At Montana, you're competing for spots only with other guys from around that area. Yes, Montana may grab a few players from outside the area, but their recruiting budget just won't allow them to recruit the entire country (or world) for talent.

@Crimsonorblue22

Selden. Wayne takes away his quickness advantage, and because of his strength, Niang can't beat him up on the block. Because Niang isn't a high flyer, the fact he's a couple inches taller than Selden doesn't mean much. Plus, Niang and Selden played together in HS. Wayne knows Niang better than most.

When you go small, you have to be creative defensively. Selden matches up pretty well with Niang.

@JRyman

We could go to that against a team like Oklahoma when they don't have their big guy in. Definitely could do that against ISU. Maybe switch out Ellis for Diallo so we match up better with McKay. But that lineup could be lethal in small doses. Wouldn't want to extend it too much because the right lineup would destroy that group inside if they got a long look.

@KUinLA said:

Like I said before, this team need to be shooting 25 threes a game.

At least that many. There will be a game this season when both Svi and Greene get hot from deep and it will be fun to watch.

This is not fools gold. This is good shooters hitting wide open shots. This is what this team can do when unleashed.

No, they won't shoot 70%+, but guys are wide open. These are practice shots.

@JRyman

Pop isn't big on analytics, but has always gravitated towards players that are analytically sound - Robinson, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Leonard, even LaMarcus Aldridge. Pop may not pay attention to analytics, but his teams aren't exactly bucking the analytical trend. If anything, they fall right in line with it.

When nobody else in the NBA had use for Bruce Bowen, the Spurs turned him into a player that was an elite defender and hit corner threes. What's the most valuable shot in the NBA according to analytics? The corner three. Bruce Bowen went from being a non-factor to one of the most valuable role players in the NBA because he could hit the corner three. The Spurs may not have used analytics to acquire him, but he's an analytics masterpiece.

I think Pop understands what analytics try to get at, which is ultimately efficiency. But Pop's system is already so efficient that he's doing analytical things without relying on the specific stats.

I doubt many coaches can say the same. Maybe Phil Jackson in his heyday.

@JayHawkFanToo

Our tempo skews because we played really fast (and really well) in our wins against Chaminade Northern Colorado, Loyola and even UCLA. However, Coach Self has indicated that he wants to slow the pace down. This team is designed to play fast. They will be at their best playing fast, which is why they run 2 PGs out there for a bulk of the minutes. This team should play at a very quick pace.

We were playing fast against Harvard. In the first half, we had 37 possessions, including two periods between TV timeouts where we got in 9 possessions (I don't count offensive rebounds as a new possession). In the second half, we started out with 16 possessions before the second TV timeout. After that point, we had 17 total possessions before Harvard started fouling with less than a minute to go. We were on pace for 39 or 40 second half possessions against Harvard. We finished with 33. We slowed down.

We can play with tempo. We play well when we play with tempo. But somehow, when the game got close, rather than do what we do best (i.e. play with tempo) we throttled down and played half court.

We could have (and should have) run Harvard off the floor with pace. They were not ready to go up and down with us. Instead, we got drug into a rock fight. It was 30-16 at the under 8 timeout in the first half. We had already gotten 24 possessions in the game and we were playing well. Harvard was on the ropes. We had 13 possessions the rest of the half (should have gotten 15 or 16). When we should have been delivering the knock out blow, we slowed down and let them catch their breath.

We have complained the last couple of years about a lack of killer instinct among the players. This game should have been blown open, but it wasn't. That's an issue for me because that will matter when we play OU, ISU, UK and other stronger teams.

Everybody wants to play. I agree with @JRyman on that.

But the thing is, some guys know they aren't ready for D1 ball yet. Those guys are generally your 1 and 2 star players. At KU, other guys realize they aren't going to start because they flat can't out play some of the other guys in practice every day. That's what happens to 3 star talent at KU. Those guys simply cannot hang with the elite players.

The four star guys is where it starts getting interesting, because some of these guys were underrated at HS players, and could have been 5 stars if they had gone to the right school or been on the right AAU team, etc. But for many 4 star players, particularly at KU, they have a limited number of elite recruiting options. Programs aren't holding spots open for them. Legerald Vick jumped at the KU opportunity, but that opportunity existed only because Malik Newman, Jaylen Brown and others went elsewhere. If the question was Vick or those guys, Vick ends up somewhere else. That's the nature of the 4 star player.

So because of that, 4 star guys may look for PT, but they are also going to go to the best possible program that mixes PT with overall opportunity and experience.

But 5 stars can go anywhere. @Statmachine is right. If I am a 5 star and I see that now, two years in a row, KU has landed top recruits and they are in the bottom 5 among top 25 recruits in minutes, that would give me pause. I'm gonna go to KU and sit behind a guy that, on his career, averages 5 points and 4 rebounds, or 4 points and 4 rebounds? Really?

If we aren't going to play a top 10 recruit, then why recruit a top 10 recruit. There is no argument that can be made that either Lucas or Traylor is as good at basketball as Bragg or Diallo. NONE And yet they sit. Don't recruit over a guy if you aren't going to play over him.

@JayHawkFanToo

It's all about strengths and weaknesses. Coach Self has some definite strengths that make him a top notch coach. His preparation, ability to condition, instilling toughness, defensive mindset and instilling unselfishness, along with his ability to recruit make him a top college coach.

He only has a couple of real weaknesses, honestly. He's stubborn, but that's not really a weakness when you consider that to be successful in his profession, he has to stick to what he's doing.

His real weaknesses are:

1) Reliance on experience over talent
2) Reliance on post scoring

That's really it when it comes to Coach Self's weaknesses. I don't truly believe that he tightens up in big games. I think that's more a function of him relying on potentially less talented players in big spots, asking them to play above their heads sometimes.

Offensively, he wants to play inside out. When he had Wayne Simien, Darrell Arthur, the Morris twins, TRob, etc. that was not a problem. It's a problem now because he doesn't have a first round draft pick occupying the low block. If KU had Ben Simmons or Ivan Rabb, probably the two best interior scorers among this year's freshmen, on the block, that wouldn't be an issue. But since he doesn't have that, he should adapt, but this is where being stubborn hurts him a bit.

It's not that Self doesn't know what he's doing. It's that this team is potentially a tremendous team, but the makeup of this team exposes his weaknesses (much like last year) in ways that are dangerous for a deep March run.

A win is a win, true enough. And if we win every game by 5 en route to a title, sure, sign me up.

But the thing is, we won't win every remaining game if we play like we did against Harvard because we will face better teams than that.

We can't get outrebounded by 8. We can't have zero interior scoring punch. We can't play slow against a team that is begging us to play slow so they don't get run off the floor. There are other teams out there that can (and will) beat us playing that type of game if we are content to play that pace.

And that's why I complain. I don't care about beating Harvard. A win is nice, but we can't count on winning that way when we face Oklahoma, Iowa State, Kentucky and others. Does anyone here believe we can beat Michigan State the way we played Harvard?

We can beat Harvard that way because Landen Lucas, even though he isn't a superstar, is still better than the guys Harvard can put out there against him. His low mistake, low production game does well against Harvard and the like because we have enough surplus talent to beat Harvard anyway.

That won't work against the better teams in the country, which means that come March, we will need Diallo and Bragg and Ellis and a touch of Mickelson because we will need the talent even if there are mistakes because we won't have the surplus talent at every other position to cover for Lucas and Traylor.

We had this same argument when Morningstar was here and everyone ranted about how well he defended (even though Self rarely put him on an elite scorer) and how well he fed the post (even though he never had more than 126 assists in a single season, less than 3.5 a game). Morningstar didn't make mistakes, but against good teams, he was a clear liability because teams virtually ignored him on offense (he was only a dangerous shooter when he was wide open) and he was often guarding their least dangerous perimeter scorer. I remember well the night the Brady Morningstar is a top defender argument died. It was the night Jacob Pullen dropped 30 something on KU in a KU loss. Morningstar never guarded Pullen that night. That exposed the truth.

We will see something similar this year with Lucas and Traylor. Self may say that they do all of these different things, but if Lucas is such a great rebounder (our best, allegedly) then why on earth did we get outrebounded by 8 when our best rebounder was on the floor for 24 minutes? If Traylor brings so much energy to the team, then why is it that his hustle stats (blocks, steals, offensive rebounds) are so pedestrian - in 125 minutes on the season, Traylor has 5 blocks, 3 steals and 10 offensive rebounds. Hunter Mickelson, a guy not noted for his "energy" has 9 blocks, 3 steals and 4 offensive rebounds in just 59 minutes.

I'm okay with winning every game by 5, but if you can show me how this team can win that way against the better teams, then I will be happy to eat as much crow as you can possibly serve.

The question that Self has to answer is this - will not playing Diallo and Bragg in close games now cost him a game in March?

In March, talent is more important than experience. Guys have to make plays, and when that time comes, you either can make the play or you can't. When that time comes, I would rather ride with Diallo and Bragg than Lucas and Traylor.

But is Self's competitive spirit getting the best of him here? Is his desire to win a game in December against Harvard working against the goal of winning the national title? Maybe Lucas was the better choice for the short term goal of beating Harvard on Saturday. But even if that was the case, Lucas is not the best choice for the long term.

But is that a trade Self is willing to make?

It's a double edged sword, I tell you. A double edged sword.

We want Coach Self to improve in his understanding and exploiting of matchup advantages. We want this because it will undoubtedly make KU a much better team and that will result in more wins, particularly in March, which means more banners in AFH.

But it cuts both ways.

If Self improves in this aspect, he immediately becomes a prime NBA coaching prospect. Right now, his stubborn devotion to system over talent and matchups makes him a poor NBA fit, which is why the Self to the NBA rumors have virtually disappeared over the last few seasons. Self remains at KU because there really isn't a better college job, and he would be a poor match for the NBA.

But Self could learn from the NBA game. In the NBA, they measure defense based on a rate statistic so they can determine how many points a team gives up per 100 possessions. This means that you can play a slow pace and give up very few points per game, but still have a weak defense because your PPP (points per possession) is high.

The thinking of preferring to win 60-50 is flawed. If you give up 50 points in 40 possessions, your defense isn't good. You just played at a slow enough pace to still manage to win. It looks good from a points per game perspective, but you weren't really getting many stops. There just weren't many possessions.

On the other hand, if you give up 70 points in 100 possessions, yeah, the points per game doesn't look great, but that points per possession is elite level.

So let's go to the numbers:

vs. Northern Colorado - 72 points allowed, 56 shots attempted, 26 FTs attempted, 21 TO forced.

vs. Michigan State - 79 points allowed, 60 shots attempted, 16 FTs attempted, 16 TO forced

vs. Chaminade - 72 points allowed, 69 shots attempted, 21 FTs attempted, 14 TO forced

vs. UCLA - 73 points allowed, 59 shots attempted, 21 FTs attempted, 11 TO forced

vs. Vanderbilt - 63 points allowed, 56 shots attempted, 15 FTs attempted, 11 TO forced

vs. Loyola - 61 points allowed, 61 shots attempted, 20 FTs attempted, 21 TO forced

vs. Harvard - 69 points allowed, 57 shots attempted, 15 FTs attempted, 19 TO forced

By the numbers, Harvard was one of our worst, maybe the worse defensive game of the year. If we don't force 19 turnovers (a result of playing fast) we lose that game.

Lucas had no blocks and no steals in 24 minutes. He had 8 boards, 5 points and a turnover. That's not good production for your "best big man". Simply put, Lucas, like Morningstar before him just simply isn't productive enough to merit playing more than 15 minutes per game unless he is surrounded by superstars. Lucas could play, and play well, and he won't put up 15 points and 12 rebounds. He just isn't that guy. So there is no reason to play him 20+ minutes because you will never get that big performance from him. Might as well play him 12 minutes, get 4 rebounds and a bucket and call it good.

The same can be said for Traylor. He and Lucas really should be splitting 10-12 minutes per game, not playing that each.

I think he was trying to make up for missing the first few games by having a big immediate impact. The adrenaline got to him a little bit and had him bouncing around too much.

I think that will correct itself once he is able to settle down and just play.

I think he understands what he can get to and what he cannot, and I anticipate that he will adapt once he gets a few more games under his belt.

@Crimsonorblue22

Free throws are different than jump shots because with jump shots against a defense, there is a lot of stress on getting that shot off. With a free throw, he can slow down his mechanics and put those in.

But working off the dribble, he has to get his release off quick with his size, so that will put more stress and cause him to either fling or push the ball, depending on how his elbow feels - fling if it hurts to bend, push if it hurts to straighten. Neither option is good overall mechanics and that 2-12 suggests that he is doing something mechanically wrong to compensate. I wouldn't be surprised if he was on the shelf til after the New Year if he struggles in their next game.

@BeddieKU23

He won't shoot well until that elbow is right, even if he does take care of the ball. You can essentially guard him by daring him to shoot jumpers because I don't think he can be efficient right now.

Not sure Ulis was healthy last night. He played a ton, but played pretty badly.

2-12 from the field, 1-5 from three, a couple turnovers. He did have 9 assists, but he wasn't his normal steady self.

Big win for UCLA. This shows that UCLA isn't as bad as they looked in Hawaii.

It also demonstrates that we aren't as bad as we looked when we fumbled the game away against MSU. UCLA is a borderline top 25 team and can do well when at home. UK is a very good team, but Ulis is their key. As he goes, they go. If he doesn't go, they can't go.

It also showed the difference in matchups. Welsh didn't do much of anything against us. Had a big double double last night, and added a couple blocks besides that. That matchup was all the difference in outcome. If Welsh plays like he did against us, UK wins. If Welsh plays like he did against UK against us, that game is definitely closer. I don't know that they beat us, but it would have been a much more competitive game.

@drgnslayr @BeddieKU23 @HighEliteMajor

I think all of you have made great points on Perry Ellis' ability (or lack thereof) to score against length. But this shouldn't be a surprise. The first time I watched Perry Ellis play I remarked to a friend of mine that I wasn't sure how well he would do if he wasn't the biggest guy on the floor. They asked why. I said simply "he doesn't dunk enough."

If you watch his HS videos, notice that even then he's not up dunking on people, despite playing against smaller guys all the time. Check out these two videos. One is obviously Perry. The other is Ricardo, better known as Rico Gaithers. Notice the difference.
Perry>

Perry is clearly the more skilled player. He handles the ball better, shows a better shooting touch, higher basketball IQ, etc. But even then, if I had to pick, I'd say that Gaithers had the opportunity to become the better player because he's clearly the superior athlete.

Gaithers dunks on everyone in that video. He shoots a couple of jumpers and makes one layup. Other than that, its him dunking on anyone and everyone in sight.

Ellis dunks in his video, too, but the dunks aren't as powerful, and in traffic, he's content to lay the ball up. Against a 6-6 guy, that's a nifty looking bucket. Against a 6-10 guy, that's a blocked shot or an off balance flip.

Perry had a lot of success in high school and it is tough to dominate the way he did in high school, and have the type of success he has had in college (realize, he is a legitimate top level collegiate player) and yet change your game because 5-7 times a year you run into someone much bigger and turn in a 3-11 shooting night. 80% of the time, Perry will do what Perry does because there aren't many guys that size in college to give him problems.

Perry has every move in the book. His footwork is very good, he handles the ball well, his fundamentals are solid and sound. He has mastered the game below the rim. Against most opponents, that is plenty. But 20% of the time, he needs to go above the rim. He has yet to develop a counter for the biggest opponents. He can get you off balance with fakes and jabs, but if you just stay big, he has yet to counter that. He is a jujutsu do expert on the floor, using his opponents momentum against them at every turn. But what happens when the opponent makes him use his own momentum? Perry is good at the counter, but has not developed the devastating frontal assault or brute force attack.

@Crimsonorblue22

I agree. I was in BG's position as a HS player. I wasn't nearly as good, but I was a very solid player. I was frustrated for a number of reasons, but the fact that I wasn't playing was driving me nuts, especially after losses. If we won, I was as happy as anyone, but when we lost, I was frustrated and angry, especially if I didn't play and thought I could have helped turn that L into a W.

But I wasn't the type of guy that complained to my coaches about PT. I was the guy that just unleashed in practice every single day. My team only lost one scrimmage the entire year. One. And I didn't play with the starters most days. I kept my mouth shut and just unloaded all that frustration every day. But that was my personality. I wasn't going to sit around and gripe, other than in private conversations with my dad. But around my teammates and coaches, I just played, and I played hard. I ran hard in sprints. I went after every loose ball. I grabbed every rebound. I took it personal if my man even got a touch on offense, let alone score. I studied our team defense and barked out rotations, even from the bench during games.

My coach still didn't play me much. I don't know why. I haven't spoken to him in almost 15 years. But I didn't quit playing hard, either in practices or in games. I just didn't play for him. I played for my teammates, and I gained their respect, as evidenced by the fact that even though I was 6th or 7th in minutes for my squad, I was the guy that everyone looked to when they had questions about what we were running, or should run, or how to break certain schemes, or to say something before games, or in timeout huddles. My teammates respected my talent and my knowledge more than my coach. And after all this time, I have found that the respect I earned from them was worth more than the minutes my coach didn't give me.

I just hope BG can find the same peace. If you're frustrated with your coach, play for your brothers. Find someone that you can trust to blow off steam, someone that will not talk to the media or anyone else, so when you have a tough day, you can vent without it ending up all over social media. But either way, play hard because if you play hard and play for your brothers, you will find a way to enjoy the game.

Greene is like a lot of guys. He wants to play because he is good.

No doubt about it, Brannen Greene is a very good basketball player that would be starting at all but maybe 15 or 20 schools in the country. Think about that for a second. Brannen Greene sits on the bench at KU and he looks out and sees guys that he knows he is better than playing for other teams every night. That's frustrating.

Now, when some guys get frustrated, they channel all of that energy into practice and just unleash every day to prove they belong on the court. For others, that frustration becomes a burden and it weighs them down. I think BG got burdened, and then boiled over. It's a bad look, but at least we know he's a competitor.

Honestly, I can't be mad at a player for taking the highest offer. If I was in the same position, I would take a higher offer to change companies rather than stay where I am at. Of course, there are other factors, but if someone is offering you 20% more for the same work, it's hard to say no, especially since with baseball, you're on the road every other week anyway, and you can basically live wherever you want in the offseason. It's not like baseball requires you to move to the town you play in.

@benshawks08

I think (correct me if I am wrong) that what you are getting at is that there are different types of leaders. There are emotional leaders. Perry is clearly not that type of leader because he doesn't give you any emotion to follow. There are quiet leaders. That's more in Perry's wheelhouse. They lead by example by showing up on time and just being generally a good soldier.

But this team has lacked an emotional leader. I think Diallo has helped Wayne kind of unleash his inner fire this year. Wayne in some ways tried to be more like Perry and follow Perry's even keel lead. But if you are a fiery player, that's how you will play best and we see so far this year that Wayne is more fired up and he's playing his best ball.

We've been waiting for the NCAA to free Cheick, but maybe, in truth, Cheick freed everyone else.

Perry should play the 4, but when guarded by length, he should step away from the basket and use his quickness and ball handling to beat his man. Perry also needs to become a facilitator against length. He makes it too easy when he is being guarded because he rarely passes out of the post once he starts an offensive move. This makes it easier to time his shot because you aren't concerned about the kick out pass. On his career, Perry has 103 assists in 112 career games. If he can become a bit more of a passing threat, that will change the timing inside and may actually make him a bit more efficient as an interior scorer.

Last night was (or should have been) the beginning of the end as far as double figure minutes for Traylor and Lucas. They have represented KU well during their time in Lawrence. They have been great Jayhawks and I will be happy for both when they start and give their speeches on senior night in a couple of months. They both deserve that and should be applauded for it.

But from a pure basketball standpoint, last night made it quite obvious that the rotation should be Diallo and Ellis starting up front, with Bragg off the bench and Mickelson picking up some minutes as well. On the perimeter, it should be the current starters plus Svi and either Vick or Greene, depending on if we need offense or defense. That's the rotation that our talent dictates. At this point, I think we even should go Vick over Greene because Vick provides another potential ball handler.

There were so many moments last night where it was clear that our best four bigs are Ellis, Diallo, Bragg and Mickelson. Diallo's chase down block in the second half comes to mind. There aren't many college bigs that can make that play. Seeing him play last night, Diallo confirmed my suspicions - he raises the ceiling on this team.

It also made it clear that Bragg is at worst our third best big. He's already likely our best passing big man and may be the best overall ball handler once he gets a bit more confident in his skills. Perry will continue to be steady and I think the fact that he can be a contributor instead of the star is really helping him. Perry can get you 12-15 a night and, if at the end of the day we are talking about Selden, Mason and Diallo, I think that helps Perry even more because he doesn't have the burden of making every play when he ends up in a bad matchup.

It's also clear that Mickelson is absolutely deserving of that last big rotation spot. His shot blocking and offensive skills make him the easy choice. He can do everything Lucas can, at Lucas' size, but slightly better. I feel bad that Landen is going to lose his spot while he is injured, but I can't see a path for him to get back in the rotation now that Diallo is available.

I think Greene is in the same position in his competition with Svi and Vick. Getting suspended is always dumb, but getting suspended when you are competing with a couple of guys that can play is really dumb.

Self has to walk a careful line here, because basketball is the easiest sport to see who should be playing. Self can praise Jamari all he wants, but its abundantly clear that Bragg and Diallo are better at basketball than Jamari is. And if that's clear to us as fans, I can be pretty sure that's clear to the players in practice. It's not like Diallo and Bragg don't give effort. If that was the case, I would be all for keeping Jamari in the rotation to keep the effort high. But Diallo gives great effort. Bragg actually probably needs to pace himself a bit more so he isn't rushing offensively.

I would take the title.

As @JhawkAlum says, Wilt is better known for his pro exploits than what he did collegiately. He is associated with KU most often by other KU people, not by the wider basketball world. I think part of that is that Wilt, unlike many elite college players of his day 1) did not win a college title and 2) did not play 3 years.

So if Wilt were to have never played ball, it would not do much to affect the legacy that KU has currently, whereas a title would certainly have a profound affect on how KU is perceived.

@Statmachine said:

He said he is ready to dunk on people!

I hope he does.

Often.

With malice.

@BeddieKU23

I agree wholeheartedly. I am still high on Selden because he has an NBA body and NBA size to handle the wing. That is not a question for him. For a lot of college 2's and 3's, they have to answer the question of if they can stay effective while adding the size/strength to be an NBA wing player. Selden does not have to change his body to play in the NBA, which is a huge advantage.

@BeddieKU23

If Selden is consistent, he will be a late first round pick this year. He has always had NBA level size and athleticism. He just never really played like it on a regular basis.

Wayne controls his own destiny at this point. If he is consistent, he will be a first rounder. If he starts disappearing again, like he has through his first two seasons, he will be back in Lawrence again next season. For this season to go the way we hope it does (ending in Houston in April) we need first rounder Wayne.

As for the casualties of KU basketball, we have to remember that these types of things will always happen at a place like KU. Simply put, not everyone is talented enough to play at that level. Let's scan some names --- Downs, Woolridge, Galindo --- just a few names there of guys that ended up being good D1 players at different schools, but never would have made it at KU because they would not have gotten the playing time necessary to develop.

A lot of people on here talk about VanVleet and Baker. Neither of those guys would have played at KU. Could the Fred VanVleet that averaged just 16 mpg at Wichita State have hoped to get more minutes at KU behind Elijah Johnson and Naadir Tharpe? Maybe had he stuck around the next season as a sophomore he could have grabbed some minutes when Tharpe struggled, but it's likely as a freshman that he would have sat behind Johnson and Tharpe, and as a soph he would have been behind Tharpe and Frank Mason. The minutes just would not have been there for Van Vleet. Maybe 5 mpg as a freshman and 10 or so as a soph.

For Baker, he would have sat behind McLemore and Releford. Remember, Baker only played in half of WSU's games as a freshman because he struggled early on. If that happens to him at KU he's buried so far in the bench that he never gets out of that hole as a freshman. As a sophomore, Wiggins, Selden, and Greene arrive, so Baker probably is still stuck behind a lot of traffic on the depth chart. Two years of mop up minutes don't make you an All American.

KU is a place where you have to be good enough to play as a freshman. If you can't, you probably won't ever be good enough because somebody more talented shows up every year.

@HighEliteMajor

You can win without the three ball if you have a lottery pick in the post. KU does not have that right now. If we had an Embiid, or an Okafor, or a Towns or someone like that on the low block, we could certainly win by allowing that guy to dominate games.

But we have Perry Ellis who, while very good, cannot flat out dominate night in and night out. We have no one in the post that we can just dump the ball in to time after time and get either a bucket or a foul.

That's why the three ball is critical. I hope that Self saw last year that pounding the ball inside actually limited Perry's effectiveness as the season wore on because he was banging against bigger, stronger players all year. Let Perry punish smaller guys on the block, but against bigger players, he should be facing up with regularity.

As @Texas-Hawk-10 points out, KU is actually not very good inside, due in large part to the fact that KU isn't really all that big in the post and lacks a dominant big man that can own the paint. Shooting a poor interior percentage means that KU gives away points by throwing the ball inside for "easy" shots because KU can't hit them at an average to above average rate.

Ideally, Self plays primarily with Diallo, Ellis and Bragg, his three most talented interior players, with Mickelson picking up the spare minutes and Lucas and Traylor relegated to mop up duty.

However, knowing Self, he will lean on his veterans at the expense of Bragg (only getting minor minutes now) and Mickelson (stuck behind Lucas even now). This of course assumes that he will play Diallo in front of Traylor and Lucas, which is no guarantee.

Diallo is the perfect compliment to the particular KU team because he can run around in the middle while the rest of the team is spaced around the floor in the four out game. Whether he's paired with Bragg or Ellis, either of those guys can face up on offense. If Diallo is out of the game, Ellis and Bragg can take turns inside since both can also step away from the bucket. This is the perfect set up to play four out regardless of personnel, provided that Self plays his best guys (Diallo, Ellis, Bragg, Mason, Graham, Selden, Svi and Greene if he gets himself together off the court).

Numbers that matter:

VS. Michigan State 3-15 from 3pt

VS UCLA 10-23 from 3pt

And that's with no Brannen Greene and Svi not shooting the ball well from distance (2-9 from beyond the arc). This KU team should just anticipate shooting 20+ threes every night.

KU had 12 assists against Michigan State.

KU had 19 assists last night.

Almost all three point baskets come from assists, as most players not named Steph Curry are decidedly worse shooters off the dribble than when set from three. This KU team will be defined by the ability to drive and kick to open shooters, or the ability to throw into the post and make the extra pass on the rotation to get the ball in the hands of an open shooter. Five different players hit from three last night.

The only thing we must do now is get Carlton Bragg more minutes. We cannot continue to have such a talented guy getting just 10 minutes of run a night.

@Statmachine

I get that. But too often, the comparison goes beyond that to saying he's the next this or that and it blurs the line. I want Svi to be Svi because if Svi tries to play like Lebron, he will not play well because that's not his game. I'd rather he play like Reggie Miller because that's in the sweet spot of his game, with a little more defense like he showed last night.

I hate the comparisons of players to guys that are in no way similar. Andrew Wiggins is a tremendous basketball player. However, his game is in no way similar to Lebron James.

Their builds are different.

Their styles are different.

Their games are different.

I would argue that Svi is more like Wiggins than Wiggins is like Lebron. Svi is more of a pure shooter. Wiggins is all speed and fast twitch muscle. Lebron is a freak of nature.

But from a basketball standpoint, they are even more different. Lebron is a passer at heart. Even as a rookie, Lebron averaged almost 6 assists per game. He had to develop his shooting and post game, but he was always a gifted passer.

Wiggins is an explosive athlete. He's all speed and spins and jumping. He can shoot a little, but needs to develop that more. He's not a punishing player by any means. He should someday become a truly disruptive defender, but he will likely never be the passer/ball handler that Lebron is. He may become that level of scorer, but won't be that type of passer and facilitator. Wiggins will likely be much more similar to Paul George than Lebron.

Svi is even more skewed towards shooting and away from the explosive Wiggins game or the power and passing of Lebron. Svi is much more similar to a guy like Reggie Miller or Richard Hamilton than he is to Lebron.

Nobody would call Tony Parker the French Lebron James even though Tony Parker is probably the best player ever from France. Nobody ever called Dirk Nowitzki the German Jordan, even though he's far and away the best to ever hail from Germany. Why burden Svi or Wiggins with being Lebron when that isn't even their game?

The key is to put the clamp on Alford first. He's a volume shooter, so disrupting him will disrupt their offense. My belief has always been to put size on shooters and speed on slashers. Alford is a shooter, so you put Selden on him to start. This may also be a night where you put Vick on him and tell Vick that while he is on the court his only concern is to make sure that Alford is within arms length at all times.

In the post, I would play behind their big guy and dare him to dominate. I don't know that Welsh is good enough to score with his back to the basket on every possession, even against a team lacking size. He's not Karl Anthony Towns or Jahlil Okafor. He's a guy that averaged just 4 points per game last year. The temptation would be to double him, but I think KU is better off not compromising the defense and daring him to beat us because honestly, I don't think he's good enough to do that.

@Second-Prize

He gets hated on because, while he has a lot of creative plays that can get guys open for threes, he only uses them at the end of half and the end of games! It's like he only allows himself and his players to use that creative strength for 4 minutes of a 40 minute game. That's what is so frustrating. Self has the ability, but his stubborn devotion to a system has stymied what can, at times be a very creative basketball mind.

KU is a team that happens to have a lot of average to above average three point shooters. I don't know that this team has a great shooter other than the currently suspended BG, but not a single rotation perimeter guy is a flat out poor shooter. Left alone, any one of these guys could hit 3 or 4 threes in a game. In fact, other than Vick, every single KU perimeter player has, at some point in his career, hit at least 3 triples in a game. The shooters are very capable.

Chaminade and Northern Colorado were/are both overmatched in the interior. That means that when KU throws the ball inside, as they insist they must do, those teams were forced to double every single time. What happens when you double the post? Well, against a Bill Self team, the ball starts moving and, when you combine that with a group of average and up shooters, the ball is going to end up in the hands of someone who is:
1. Wide Open
2. Capable of knocking down a three

That's a recipe for hitting a ton of threes. However, against a better team, they don't have to double the post on every entry because they have capable interior defenders. As a result, when the ball is kicked back out, the quality of looks degrades considerably. Remember, this is a team of good shooters, not great ones. Good shooters with good looks are highly efficient. But if you don't have to double and the defense isn't scrambling, those good shooters aren't wide open, so they aren't hitting 50% of those shots because they have a hand in their face.

This could be remedied if KU starts attacking the basket off the dribble. This will allow them to collapse the defense and create the same scrambling effect that happens when team's double the post. In all honesty, this KU team would benefit from running a variation of the dribble drive motion. We lack a post player that can dominate every night, but we have lots of decent ballhandlers and good shooters. Drive, kick, rinse, repeat. Eventually the defense gets bent the wrong way and somebody gets all the way to the rim or a shooter is left alone. The parts are there for an efficient offense. Just not an efficient high low offense.

I think the Cliff Alexander situation is hurting us, honestly. How does a guy go from being a top 5 recruit to barely playing prior to his suspension? That's a killer on the recruiting trail, especially with such good things being said about Alexander in Portland. The problem wasn't Alexander's talent, so the issue must be something at Kansas.

Bill Self's refusal to play his most talented guys is burning him on the recruiting trail in my opinion. Why go to KU if Self is going to play Jamari Traylor or another veteran in front of you?

@Texas-Hawk-10

Self plays offense like Perry Ellis is Wayne Simien. He is not. Ellis can be bottled up on the block. Since Embiid left, KU has not used an NBA quality interior scorer (Alexander was, but for reasons that have been well documented, he did not get to exploit that) during the season.

Self wants to pound the ball, but his best offense is to turn it into a perimeter based game - utilize Selden, Greene, Svi, Mason, Graham and Vick to slash and kick to their heart's content. Utilize he four out offense that was effective last year for stretches.

Self has to recognize why VCU happened. That KU team absolutely should have killed VCU inside. When you have two NBA starting bigs and another lottery pick interior talent, you absolutely pound the ball inside. If anybody on this KU team ends up as an NBA starter, it will not be a big man. It will be Selden, Svi, Bragg or Vick. Those are the potential NBA starters. Other than Bragg, who has more of a face up game anyway, none of those guys are inside players.

So why not invert the offense? This KU team should be shooting 17-25 threes a night. Self has to accept that his interior scoring isn't good enough to pound the ball inside and go to what he is good enough at - shooting threes and slashing.

@SoftballDad2011

KU fans will always push for more, just like Duke fans, UNC fans and Kentucky fans.

That's the nature of the elites.

@SoftballDad2011

Izzo is a coach that will get the max out of his players come March. His record says that he always does that.

Self's record is the opposite. Self gets the most out of his team in January and February. That's why he wins conference titles all the time. He gets the most out of his team so they don't lose random games to weak opponents on a non-descript Tuesday in February. Self generally doesn't drop those games.

But come March, he doesn't maximize his opportunity because he tries to make sure his team is ready to beat Texas Tech in February, even if that is at the expense of developing a guy that can help beat Kentucky in March. He's doing it now with this team. He's playing Lucas and Traylor, guys that can be steady enough to beat the weaker teams in the Big 12, but they can't help you beat a tournament team because they just aren't good enough. KU may be better off in January to use the more experienced guys, but come March, they need Bragg and Mickelson because they need the raw talent upgrade.

Talent is the variable that helps you get through the bad bounces. Talent is what bailed Kentucky out against Notre Dame last year. A lesser team gets beat in that game, but UK's talent advantage won the day. Same for Duke against Wisconsin. Wisconsin is national champ, except that even with Okafor not playing great, Allen and Jones were both very good in that game. Coach K was able to put the game in the hands of a top 30 freshman and his top notch PG, and that beat Wisconsin.

There are lots of uncontrollable things in each game. But if you're good enough, you can overcome that stuff. If you aren't, you won't.

I get the emotions expressed on both sides.

On one hand, yes, KU is successful, and will have another good or even very good season. 25 wins and another conference title are probably well within reach. For most schools in the country, that would be cause for celebration.

But on the other hand, this is Kansas. While conference titles and 25 win seasons are nice, the real challenge is March, and the way KU played on Tuesday makes another March flameout not only possible, but likely. There was nothing displayed on Tuesday to make you feel like a Final Four or even an Elite Eight run is in the cards.

KU has very good talent this year, but not elite talent. That would be enough for a deep run if Self were willing to utilize that in a certain way, but insisting on playing Traylor and Lucas over Bragg and Mickelson puts a definite cap on how far this team goes because Traylor and Lucas have limitations that will show up against the teams that will still be around deep in the tournament, and can be exploited in the right matchups by smart coaches.

This is where Self gets burned. He is excellent in preparation, excellent in motivation, a top ten recruiter, etc. But Self is not a matchup coach. He does not punish you for guarding a good player with a lesser player. I am still fuming that he didn't tell Perry to hang 25-10 on his old HS teammate vs. Wichita State. There is no way a 6-4 guy should be able to do anything with Perry Ellis. Perry eats those guys for lunch. He was 4-9 against WSU. He tallied 17, but only because he was exceptional from the line. He should have had 25. Instead, he and Self let Wessel play him to basically a draw (12 points, 9 boards for Wessel on 4-6 shooting vs. 17 points, 8 boards for Perry). That matchup, which should have been a decided win for KU, cost the Hawks the game. That should have been 25-10 from Perry on 8-11 shooting, with Wessel only playing 15-20 minutes because he couldn't guard anyone and had to be benched.

But that's the problem. Self doesn't exploit matchups. So every year in a big game, someone disappears. Selden had 0 on 0-5 shooting against WSU. Wiggins had 4 points on 1-6 shooting against Stanford. Tyshawn Taylor had 2 points on 0-6 shooting against Northern Iowa. How are our top notch perimeter guys disappearing with regularity against inferior opponents in March. That's a problem, and it has not been corrected in the last five years.

This is where we are heading. 25 wins. Conference title. Losing against (insert fairly average bubble team here) in the Round of 32. Selden or Greene or Svi having <4 points and a poor shooting night in defeat. Somebody copy this down so that we don't have to re-type it come March.

I looked at KU's roster right now and asked myself - if I needed one guy to take over a game against a big time opponent, who could I say that guy would be?

And an hour later I was still thinking, not because there were that many options, but because I couldn't find that guy.

KU as a team is a bunch of good and really good players. But I look at that roster and I don't see one elite or near elite player in the group. Could you see Wayne Selden just going on a tear for a week and carrying this team through the Texas/ Iowa State/ Kentucky gauntlet in January?

I don't see it.

Perry? No. Frank? Not every night, he'll wear down. Devonte? Not as good as Frank. Svi? Too inconsistent. BG? Could get hot, but his turnstile defense will limit his minutes. Vick? Maybe next year. Bragg? He's probably the closest, but again, he doesn't seem like he will get the minutes or chances to do so. Lucas, Traylor, others? Not talented enough.

There are a ton of really good players on that list right there. But I don't think the elite teams spend nights awake worrying about what those guys might do. That's why I wanted KU to nab Brown or Newman in recruiting. Those guys are potential elite level talents. Brown is off to a good start, Newman not so much, but their talent level dictates they can take a team to the next level.

It's obvious this is now a joke, so I think I am going to take a break for a while.