Going to be a really interesting test for the Hawks on the road this early. We had a road game already which should help in that aspect, but we'll see how they handle adversity this early. It can't hurt that they already played somewhere other than Allen & it's going to be a big test for some of our newcomers.

As far as the matchup goes it's going to be a bit of a challenge for our front court. UNC started a ton of size in their first game against the #347 team via Kenpom (Green Bay is #334) for reference. They started 3 big's in Caleb Wilson (star freshman), Jarin Stevenson (Bama transfer) & Henri Veesaar (Arizona transfer) who are all 6'10 and taller. That's a lot of size for KU to deal with since White and Rosario are 6'6/6'7. Will they adjust to more traditional lineup based on our matchup or stick with it. Will be interesting to see what they throw at us. The matchup of White on Wilson is perhaps the biggest one. I think Tiller is going to play a bunch of minutes in this game at both the 4 and 5. We'll likely see if Mbiya can provide us anything based on the matchup.

Their backcourt isn't elite by any means but does include some guys we are very familiar with. Kyan Evans was someone we targeted in the portal and is their lead guard now. Seth Trimble is back another year & he had a big game against KU in Allen last year (19 pts). Jonathan Powell (transfer from West Virginia) had a good game against us in Allen last year as a freshman (11 pts). They have another international freshman who was playing pro ball in Luka Bogavac. I'd say on paper this is a mid-tier backcourt, not nearly as good as UNC has had in the past and hopefully that's where our advantage lies. I'd imagine Trimble will be guarding Peterson based on similar athletic profiles because I can't imagine Evans has much of a chance of guarding him.

I see KU is favored. I can see that. If we can limit Wilson that's probably a good recipe to winning this. Rebounding as a team seems like a big deal.

I think we need to do some full court pressing and we also need to force their bigs into mismatches on the perimeter

They will beat us again at some point, would rather it be regular season than tournament

@kjayhawks

Prefer it to happen another year tho

Three pointers to open up the lane a bit. White and Tiller could hit some deep shots and Rosario I can't figure out yet he's shot air balls from three and on drives is he a great defender?. We made ten treys last game at about a 35% clip with 4 of those pretty late in the game. Tiller is a frosh and we will ask a lot of him along our transfers who are going to have to step it up all season. Jamari and Elmarko will need to produce more and more. Are we really that good defensively that kept a top team like Louisville at bay at arms length? Council, White, Tiller, Peterson and Flory are athletic enough to not get embarrassed. Jamari was hard nosed in going to the boards his first year and he will heave a few up too. If we are having to play Jamari and Elmarko at the same time I just don't know. We seem like a seven to nine deep team on paper including Mbiya. Cross and Calderon are 6'8" guys who would help things alot. The flash's I've seen from Ngala left a good impression. He's really fast like a water bug. By the time Christmas gets here we might have a better understanding going into this crazy good conference grinder. I mean holy freaking cow. I have come to realize how being stressed out the last two years is how I'm still feeling.

@BeddieKU23
This type of game is what we need to see what we are made of. It will be geez guys, okay, what was that, hey Flory you keep on keeping on, we should practice our free throws, Tiller I can see you becoming a Jayhawk favorite. (I would never name a dog or horse Jayhawk or say I miss Jay Bilas or Fran. This is based on shouting would you shut the eff up.).

Per Jamari...can somebody tell me what his skills are? It's been a few years and i'm still not sure what he does as a basketball player.

That's no disrespect, but ya know how you can see a guy play, and know what he does well? I still don't know with him.

Just seems like a body.

@rockchalkjayhawk My take on Jamari is that he gives good effort on both defense and the boards. But most importantly doesn't often take on more than he can chew. He's not out there hunting his own shot but if you leave him open he will actually shoot it and can make a three every now and then. He and Elmarko have been with Self for a few years now and so have a good understanding of the system and an eye not just for where they should be but their teammates as well. I've seen more of that from Elmarko tbh but it sometimes is important to have a guy who generally knows where he is supposed to stand on offense and where the next move is (pass, dribble, fake, etc.) when he catches the ball. He's a decent enough ball handler that he can be a 3rd option to help break pressure (though I don't love him catching it near the inbound line...). He's fairly reliable and can be counted on to not fall completely apart when Self rips into the team or even him individually for lackluster play which is a big unknown with a lot of new comers. While it sounds good to have 5 scorers on the floor at all times, with a guy like DP, who needs the ball in his hands a lot, a guy who knows he's not "the man" and is perfectly comfortable with that, can have some value on the floor.

Jamari looks more comfortable out there and see effort from him on both ends so far. I saw a play where he got switched onto their big on Monday and he completely boxed the guy out from getting to a spot to get the board.

On offense you see him moving the ball and generally just staying out of trouble. Takes an open shot when in the flow of the offense.

I have no idea if he's going to play actual minutes as we get further along unless injuries happen but if he does I'm not sure what we are getting.

I will say this about Jamari and Elmarko, neither has ran from adversity and its year 3. They both generally seem to love where they are and I keep thinking at some point that's going to pay off. They are here and working their tail off.

@Zabudda

Agreed. I think its a winnable game as I think UNC has a weird mix of guys but their length in the post is going to be a challenge. Caleb Wilson has been terrific so far, was the #5 recruit in the last class. There's a ton of impact freshman this year and he's absolutely in that top tier along with Peterson and is a matchup issue for us. Hopefully the difference is that we have Peterson and nobody else does. It's going to be a team effort to win but I have this feeling DP will be out to prove a point early in the season. Kid has a poise and maturity to him that I haven't seen in a KU jersey in my lifetime.

@BeddieKU23 If Peterson stays healthy, we're going to have a very good year. He's the real deal. I haven't been this excited about a freshman since Danny Manning. (Although, unlike Danny, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that he'll ever be a senior)

It will be interesting to see the match up because of the size advantage they have. Normally I’d say bring them out and make them guard the perimeter but I’m not sure we have guys that can do that.

We just need to run!🏃🏾‍♂️🏃🏼

@BeddieKU23 said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

On offense you see him moving the ball and generally just staying out of trouble.

Yea, that pretty much sums it up. Not an Alpha. Not involved. Not sure how helpful that is. I personally think all that hair is holding him back! :)

As someone who lives in Fort Collins, CO and watched a chunk of Colorado St last season...the UNC point guard who came from CSU (Kyan Evans) really got paid because of two good NCAA tourney games. Perhaps he's gotten better in the off-season, but if he's guarding DP...well, I like KU's chances with that. He's also pretty slight of frame so physical play can affect him when he has the ball.

@focojayhawk good insight!

@focojayhawk

Nice, that's why I see Trimble guarding Peterson on Friday but they are open to try the Evans experience if they want. DP is going to have a size advantage against just about every PG we play but this matchup specifically is advantageous for him if that were to happen.

Evans had 15 in their opener. He's one I'm watching to see what improvement he made from Soph to Jr year based on how KU was on him in the portal for a bit. He wasn't a great fit here and I'm glad we got Council.

I’m thinking like we go out there pressure them full court and push the ball down the floor. I think their bigs will have a good game on our smaller less experienced Flory.

I heard we haven't lost to an ACC team since 2o18. Hope the streak continues on.

I think our problem possibly for this game will be trying to match up with their front line

@SlimShaddy54 said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

I think our problem possibly for this game will be trying to match up with their front line

Right our lack of shooting consistently concerns me we will need to beat their big guys up and down the floor while trying to make them guard on the perimeter

I will be monitoring. Driving to Wisconsin for a minor thrill tonight. I'll be watching a kid I taught and followed his career closely go up against the Badgers in Madison. He starts for Northern Illinois. Had a 14 point, zero turnover, 10 assist night against Louisiana Monroe Monday. His highlight that I've seen was watching him throw a half court alley oop pass on a fast break. Oh, I should mention it was in the 8th grade state championship game. If you take a moment and check it out on BIG Network, he sticks out on the court for his blond hair.

Name?

This is the first time that Kansas vs NC will be played in Chapel Hill. This is also the first time that NC has opened a season with five straight home games since 1918-19 with two of the games played against the Durham YMCA with no Jay Bilas on the call. What would that mean for your SOS? Kansas has won the last five games and leads the all-time series, 7-6. NC probable starters are Kyan Evans, 6-2 Junior, Guard from Kansas City, Seth Trimble, 6-3 Senior, Guard, Caleb Wilson, 6-10 Freshman, Forward who is on the preseason watch lists for the Naismith and Big O Trophies, Henri (don't call me Henry) Veesaar, 7-0 Red Shirt Junior, Center, and Jarin Stevenson, 6-10, Junior, Forward. 33-1 in total tallness. It is now nap time.

All the talk about NC front line being an advantage for them , might be the difference in the game. It very well might be but I think this might be a case where we see more minutes from Tiller along with Flory at the same time might be able to help out more. I'm OK with that, I think he is going to be a solid playe for us as the Season goes on

@SlimShaddy54
Yes, I like our bigs having an early season gut check.

Sigh. my first missed KU game in quite some time.

They're messing with us passionate fans. ^%$#@! Disney and YTTV!

Well noticed first problem of the Season. White is going to have to be better .-- -ONE REBOUND no free throw attempts in TWENTY ONE MINUTES that's not going to get it done we need his production

I think as long as we can score at least one more point than them, we should be ok.

You can sign up for a free trial with FUBO and get ESPN and then cancel before you have to pay. That's what I ended up doing

The more I think about it, portal additions need to give us 30+ points almost every game. I'm thinking Council and White can't be passive at all. If they go hard and deliver both from deep and on the break then it's looking good.

Kansas Jayhawks Sports Network to listen online.

LFG

RockChalk

An obvious foul not called and that's an ugly possession

We'll see how DP handles the pressure

Too many open shots allowed in the paint.

How many long rebounds are going to go to NC? Jeez

Playing relatively ok besides the rebounds

Tiller being able to hit that 3 from the corner is big time

Bench needs to bring it

Foul trouble. Not good

SMH. Sloppy

Lot of bad misses so far

If we can survive without DP until half that’s all we can really ask of this bunch.

Also a lot of ticky tack fouls for how they’re letting Trimble guard DP

Elmarko has looked unplayable

Not getting anything at the rim. We started getting some buckets there but haven’t been able to in several minitea

@Kcmatt7

Lots of passive play

I saw David Booth right behind the bench

Killer Trill3r

Big time shots from Tiller and Council on defense has been stellar of late

Jamari is in for defense

I’d rather play Jamari over elmarko right now. At least Jamari knows to get the ball to an actual scorer. That elmarko pull up looked so bad early in the game.

Nine offensive Tar Heel reb

Wow Tiller

@Zabudda Several long rebounds.

Flory helped cause Vesaar’s travel.

The difference of the game is Tiller hitting those 3’s.

We are 6/14 on 3’s and NC is 3/15.

@patoh3 said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

@Zabudda Several long rebounds.

That's 3Pointers for ya.

I don’t think awe will shoot that good second half, would love some post presence

After that timeout they played aggressive and gained momentum off making shots. Need to have a stretch where we do the same again to win this one

Bidunga cannot get his 3rd foul in the first 4 minutes. That's really a key to watch here.

Thank goodness tiller is better than we thought!

Those ties! Ugh! Who dresses them?

Caleb Wilson has his Jersey out

UCONN with 32 points in 9.5 minutes with a 30 point lead.

How long a rope will Kohl get?

Who is guarding Vesaar?

Losing the effort battle now

Good to see Rosario hit a 3

Poor defense. Getting away

Outscored 23-9 in 6 minutes. Not gonna survive at this rate

Tiller has 4th foul.

Tiller's done for the day

Someone else needs to step up.

This one's ova

I’m not writing them off yet.

We seem too tentative on offense right now.

We have no answer for Wilson and Veesaar. Look very limited on both ends right now

Just back from an event. We gave up 31 points in 8-1/2 minutes of the 2nd half - after 28 total in the 1st half?????

@DCHawker

Yes we are getting severely outplayed this half.

Tiller is done.

Tiller showing his lack of experience.

NC cannot miss even if they tried right now.

So, 41-18 UNC so far this half. They may score 7o....

Going to be a rough year

The one thing I thought was a given about this team was that it was going to be salty on the defensive end - win ugly games. So much for that...

Between 1st and 2nd half, it looks like UNC was playing with their food before they came in for the kill.

UNC has score 44 points in 8 minutes in the 2d half...Outscore us 44-22. I don't believe that the Tarheels are really that good...

I know we expect an awful lot from our team but have to admit they are getting out hustled.

@RockChalkinTexas

Concerning how badly this half has gone

Makes you wonder if KU is already tired and not able to keep up.

@BeddieKU23 I agree but it will be fixed. We need scorers besides DP.

Wilson has outplayed Peterson by a bunch

At least DP hasn't had cramps or it would be a hell of a lot worse

Appears that we don't actually have anyone who can score the ball other than DP...

Crap. I should have stayed with YouTube so I couldn't have seen this

Hmm.. i just got the trial fubo membership when i got home 10 min ago but im not sure about it….

Haha jinx @nuleafjhawk

@DCHawker Tiller hit 4 three pointers in the 1st half. Then he fouled out halfway in the 2nd half.

You would think that if we were making 11 shots from the arc at a 45% rate, we would be putting up 100...

Put in the little guy

@approxinfinity

Rough game. Exposed defensively in the 2nd half and limited offensively

Jamari got hammered with no call!

Unc kid is a carry machine

Peterson out with cramps again

Jackson is out now with 5 fouls.

Gave up 59 points in the 2d half...

UNC hit a high percentage of their shots in the 2nd half.

We shot 48% from 3 :)

39 rebounds for unc to our 27

We scored 37 points in each half.

Peterson only scored 7 of those points in the second half, so 30 points came from the other players. Tiller did not score in the 2nd half.

Missouri is down by 6 to SEMO near the 16 minute mark of the 2nd half.

@patoh3 seems like cause for optimism. This team doesnt seem offensively deficient.

@approxinfinity and crampless

@DCHawker said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

Gave up 59 points in the 2d half...

I mean this is clearly the issue. Not saying offense didn’t have its woes, but this was supposed to be a team with some defensive prowess.

Well that wasn’t our best half, not super worried this early in the season. We have to learn to play as a unit defensively. No help and very little rotation my biggest concern is we have zero post presence at all. Flory was bullied all night long man I miss Zuby feel like he is the missing link. We need a big dude down there that has girth. Elmarko maybe worse than his freshman year at this point so that’s disappointing. We lack anyone that can get to the rim consistently outside of Peterson. To me the best player on the floor won in Wilson.

Jamari and elmarko are just brutal

Start Tiller. I genuinely don’t care who you bench but Tre seems like he’s more likely to pout about getting benched.

Other guys just have to better man. Council has to be able to make outside jumpers. Dawson passed up too many open 3’s and I was immensely disappointed by Flory tonight.

Worried we are wasting a generational talent this season because we don’t have the pieces around him

@kjayhawks said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

Worried we are wasting a generational talent this season because we don’t have the pieces around him

It’s the truth to a degree to be honest. We don’t have a secondary or third scorer. That’s an issue even if DP is a phenom.

@kjayhawks I'm more worried about his constant cramping. He doesn't need much talent around him. The trainers better figure this out in a hurry.

@TYOHawk I’m just not sold at this point, but it is very early and I probably shouldn’t jump to conclusions.

@kjayhawks said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

@TYOHawk I’m just not sold at this point, but it is very early and I probably shouldn’t jump to conclusions.

The thing that alarms me is when he isn’t on the court is that they look clueless. We’ll have a lineup out there with guys like Melvin and Tre and it’s like..Darryn isn’t in. We need you guys to score.

A few things we may have learned (but yes, it's early):

-- They generally played well in the first half. I thought it was looking like an easy win.

-- Not to pick on just Elmarko, but he was a freaking revolving door on defense tonight. Not good at all. Wow.

-- Tre White shouldn't really handle the ball in traffic much.

-- VERY happy to see Tiller knock down some 3s. Those looked solid.

-- VERY happy Kohl hit the actual net tonight (after his first airball)! Hoping he gains some confidence after making a few.

-- Agreed with another poster. When DP is not on the floor, we seem lost in the headlights. Did we even score in the first half after he went out? I'm not sure we did score while he was on the bench. We just seemed to pass the ball around without much purpose.

-- There were times in the second half when the team seemed to have no clue they were playing a basketball game. More than a few times they just casually tossed the ball to the TarHeels! that was weird.

Oh, well. I'm happy i at least figured out a way to watch the game. Tough roadie.

@TYOHawk said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

@kjayhawks said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

Worried we are wasting a generational talent this season because we don’t have the pieces around him

It’s the truth to a degree to be honest. We don’t have a secondary or third scorer. That’s an issue even if DP is a phenom.

Not trying to be a smart ass @TYOHawk , but just reliving a lasting memory as a KU student.

A smart professor once used the word "tertiary" on me. My face went blank. I had to go look it up afterward. that set me on the right track after a dicey start to my education at KU (perhaps aided by too many $1 Hawk glass refills). Haven't looked back since!

A truly "deer in the headlights" event in the second half. We were overwhelmed by the crowd and tar heel enthusiasm.

Wilson is an absolute beast. He's NBA bound next year.

Let's see how we respond from this. I remember when Kentucky shellacked us on our own court in 2022 and we responded with a trophy in April.

Our defense was horrible... especially off high ball screens, back doors, and really anything that put one of their players in the paint at the rim all alone. It kind of looks like we haven't worked on defense in practice yet. lol

Even though we lead most of the first half, we were never in control of the tempo. They killed us on rebounds. We have several guys that should be claiming more rebounds.

At times we look horrible on both sides of the ball... but we only lost by 13. Hopefully, this will be our worst defeat this year, but who knows?

Love them Tiller treys!

My biggest concern from this game is that the switching at all five positions just might be a bad scheme but we seem committed to it. It worked in the first half against a young team early in the season but a few adjustments and they were off to the races getting whatever they wanted. That second half reminded me way too much of that Gonzaga game where they just scored at will. Run some ball screens. Get the mismatch you want. Force help. Dunk or open three.

@benshawks08 Yes I’ve hated the switching everything we have done the last 5 years. It’s for teams that can’t play defense IMO. It only worked in 2022 and that team was very average defensively. Not sure how many times their bigs got switched to a guard and went in for a dunk but it seemed like about 50.

@kjayhawks fwiw Bill Self agrees with you and doesnt want his players switching out of laziness on “weak ass ball screens”: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/3029910/2021/12/23/off-switch-coming-for-kansas-breaking-down-lazy-ball-screen-coverages-and-what-needs-to-change/?source=user_shared_article ↗

I think switching is a necessary evil in the 3 ball era and even moreso in the NIL era where rosters are built every year.

We have a roster with length and athleticism this year. If we play with consistent energy our switching only when its a necessity should theoretically work.

@approxinfinity I agree if we switched periodically, it could work better. White and Kohl trying to guard a 7 footer didn’t work and seldomly will.

The worst realization for me is we aren’t winning this conference with this team. We aren’t beating Houston, BYU, Baylor, Tech and Arizona. We aren’t beating Duke next week but hope we can sweep KSU and make it outta the first weekend in March for only the second time since 2018.

I also haven’t paid enough attention to the rest of basketball. Is that UNC team really the 25th best team? If so, yeah we are toast. We definitely COULD have won that game but we aren’t going to win many against teams better than that.

Well, we did beat higher ranked Louisville already. But as I watch St John’s vs Alabama, not sure we could compete with their athletes. Come back, Zuby!

It seems to me that Self was trying to build an athletic run and gun team, but left off the gun part.

Self doesn't do run and gun. Hes running the same offense every year and doing the same crap on defense that doesn't work. Nothing new really, just the same.

It's going to be a rough year but I'll remain hopeful for improvement. Hopefully some of the pieces around Peterson step up.

@benshawks08
It was easy at the basket pick and roll the last two years and we blamed it on Hunter saying he was just too slow. It was one of the Texas teams that successfully ran it five straight times at the start of one game. Every team has figured it out. Last year we were dared to shoot threes and scored at a low 70's rate. This game we made twelve threes but couldn't get within ten points after they blitzed us. Without Tiller in the first half we only scored 25 pts. Last year we had a top 15 team defense. It's not last year or the year before I know but giving up 58 points in the half and 48 points in the paint I am actually encouraged we only lost by 13. Tiller has the physical size to help and the fouls should get less frequent. On offense we have seen him finish inside a time or two along with being a pure shooter but stopping the offensive boards is where we need help just like before.

@BeddieKU23 said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

Self doesn't do run and gun. Hes running the same offense every year and doing the same crap on defense that doesn't work. Nothing new really, just the same.

It's going to be a rough year but I'll remain hopeful for improvement. Hopefully some of the pieces around Peterson step up.

Yea, agreed, but with the new roster he built, it sure seems like he wanted to try.

@rockchalkjayhawk at this point it’s a proven fact Self sucks at roster construction. Did we give up a top 5 basketball program for. 5-7 win football team is the question of the day.

I don’t think so.

My personal opinion is that everyone is wound way too tight for the SECOND game of the season. Nobody knows these players and how they're going to develop. Let's lose our stuff on about January 15th or so.

Hey at least this team is a lot more fun to watch!

@approxinfinity said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

We have a roster with length and athleticism this year. If we play with consistent energy our switching only when its a necessity should theoretically work.

We were just beat yesterday... because our energy level dropped off the table. We had just enough energy in the first half to lead by 8. The second half, the Tar Heels came out with more energy and our response was to go Beta instead of Alpha... Bill Self learned something yesterday. Right now, as this team sits, they fold when getting punched in the mouth. He's got to change that.

I'm not sure who will step up to lead this team. DP is great, but is he alpha enough to lead the team? Council mentioned that he will lead this team. Not sure what will happen. But we need someone who will keep our guys composed when attacked and actually TURN IT UP to meet the challenge!

Switching or not... I'm old school and want to see my guys fighting through screens. Eventually, it wears down offenses and they sort of give up setting high ball screens when they don't work.

If we took advantage of our speed and size... our big man could step out into the path on the screens and cause havoc enough and usually get back in time. That also requires our guard to get out there quick enough to make it hard for their guard to throw the lob.

Anything is possible when your TEAM has HIGH ENERGY! We really fell in that second half.

@drgnslayr

Previous teams folded when punched in the mouth so it's something we are becoming accustomed to

@BeddieKU23

Self's offense is not a one pass and go.

@BeddieKU23 - All too similar to last year. Hope the men respond with grit and not just bag it for the $$$.

Guys , can someone please what the hell was that we had to watch in the 2nd half last night ?When NC came out and hit us square in the groin we folded like a cheap suit
We acted like we never heard the word defense or how to play it , there is no excuse for opponents to be shooting 75 % at any point of a half. Then for some reason we decided not to try and run any kind of offense, they just came down and jacked up a three after three after three attempt clanking them or even worse missing everything
.
Then we see Flory doming up MIA for most of the 1st half I mean not even getting the ball or well just nothing. Scored a quick six points in the first half then poof No pointd not even a rebound I truly wonder hoe much he has progressed in the off Season Pretty easy to fill your box score line when playing teams such as Green Bay but what you doing against true quality opponents ?
Then I think our going to see some changes in the starting line ups pretty soon right now seems like we are playing three on five again right now, Trey and Kohl are really doing nothing right now other taking up space I think against Gb he had five points and one rebound and Kohl scored like three and is one for eight from the three. I think your going to say Jason much better then Trey rebounding wise and scoring wise & I think Kohl will be coming out soon, not sure who is taking his place but needs to come out and come off the bench for awhile. We will have a decent Season but no World beaters unless things change

Capping off another great KU sports weekend, let me go vomit

Dropped 10 spots on Kenpom to #29. Says a lot

Not dooming yet after game 2. It's a tough schedule. Players will improve. I'm as excited for Bryson and Kohl as I have been for a frosh in awhile not counting DP. Both should have a bright future here.

@BeddieKU23 said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

Dropped 10 spots on Kenpom to #29. Says a lot

Mostly it says there are not a lot of data points.

The first half of the game I was thinking UNC was going to be a lot better later in the year. The second half I thought the same thing about KU. 🤷‍♂️ it’s early neither team is a finished product yet.

OFFENSE: Is it enough for our guys to learn the Self "4-out" and "3-out" weave on offense and that's it? I know it's just November... and I know it helped create the "shot experienced around the world" with Chalmers for the Nattie... That offense is okay when we keep our bigs in the post the entire time. What beat us at UNC was their bigs stepping out and using pick and rolls, and just creating mismatches and taking advantage in the post.

What I like to see is more off-ball screens. Run plays to free up a shooter. Back doors.

I'm hopeful Self will write up some new offense for this team. He has a very different team from all past years. No other team is really close to the same player types as this one.

I was doing some thinking (dangerous for me) and my biggest complaint so far is Elmarko plays too much while being rather worthless. I'd prefer that neither of Marko and Mari be in the top 7 by seasons end but it is also clear that Elmarko is another in the long line of Bill pets. His stats as a Freshman for the minutes he had, there are about 14 players in that range during Self's entire time at Kansas. All of them other than Svi washed out of the program and Svi had the excuse of being 16 or however old he was exactly. I think Tiller could very well end up being our second best player but it is FAR too early to say. Melvin is a good player but he does need to show me some shot making against P4 competition. Main thing for Tre is just getting his rebounding up to how it was his previous three seasons. Against UNC it was somewhat understandable given their front line but he also didn't rebound against Green Bay...

How many teams, no matter which, would have withstood UNC taking 35 second half shots and only missing ten of them? We hit from everywhere and were able to stay away from a blow out. I'm officially taking heart from that while avoiding BShark's admission of becoming sometimes dangerous.

@BShark Everything I do is dangerous. Especially my advice. Want to go broke? Take my gambling advice.

Elmarko... I have to say my biggest disappointment in this game was not the loss, or the "deer in the headlights" of all our new guys. It was Elmarko and seeing him find ways to disappear while in the lineup. I cut him lots of slack two years ago... largely for what @Texas-Hawk-10 posted about him being pushed into too much too fast and being out of position.

I'm not sure what his real issues are. Maybe low self-esteem? He has respectable athleticism. Enough to do whatever needs to be done out there. It still seemed like the game was playing faster than him. Self mentions "game speed" often as guys get going after long layoffs from ball. I can relate to this with my own playing experience (obviously at a lesser level of ball than at KU). Practice and game speed are not the same. And it can't be replicated. It just can't.

I do think Elmarko will be a key piece to this big puzzle. His quality of play will be part of deciding our destination. He doesn't seem to be well-gifted on offense. So he better compete well in other areas to compensate. He should be a high-energy guy who fills a stat sheet with other things besides points. Steels... rebounds... assists... and then how about setting on and off ball screens? How about someone give up their body for the team? I've noticed in this small sample of games... our rebounding sucks. Part of that is we play teams that shoot long balls and create long rebounds. Elmarko should become the master of the long ball rebound!

@drgnslayr @BShark I couldn't watch but listened to the first half. Even though I couldn't see everytime his name was uttered nothing happened. I remember thinking this dude has to be better than this.

I should say this. He and Jamari hung around Lawrence. Kudos to them in this day of the grass is always greener. We should honor them for their loyalty but i seriously doubt either will go down in KU lore.

@wissox @drgnslayr funny how expectations are heightened for kids who stick around but then we cant appreciate why kids want to start over elsewhere.

@BShark Elmarko and Mari are huge disappointments for guys that have been in the program for multiple years.

@approxinfinity Come on now buddy, you know we have to have sacrificial lamb or lambs to be able to unload on when we play like crap we HAVE TO blame someone just so happens these guys are easy marks - you have hear the phrase-- Take one for the team lmao

We are still in the top 25. 25 in AP and 24 in Coaxhes poll. Also 5 of the top 10 are on our schedule.

Saw a stat about KU on the road. They have lost 15 of their last 20 road games and 17 of their last 20 to ranked opponents on the road. Didn't realize it was that bad lately on the road but makes sense going back through the last 2 years. Hopefully this was an eye opener for the group. Self used the proverbial word to describe how the team played. That usually gets a response

BPI projection record 19/11 and 11/8. We need to break this cycle. Play for each other and not for ourselves, Other coaches try to isolate and break that down. They will continue to face guard DP and he'll still get 20. White and Council have to get it up. They are seniors. Tiller and Flory will be limited by size and youth but if they can play up to their high talents we will walk over lesser teams.

@BeddieKU23 That road record is so not in our DNA until recently. Did something just change in D1? I know the glaring change is the portal. Maybe portal players just don't have the same level of commitment to Kansas. Level of commitment is definitely relative to road play. Otherwise... I always look at coaching to explain extended situations... but I really have a hard time thinking Self can't adapt and lift us out of this.

@Zabudda Sounds logical. But is sports logical anymore? And now we are discovering how many players are getting paid to rig games. I'm not saying KU guys do this... I'm just saying the game has become so unpredictable. I use to do much better in picking winners and now I might as well flip a coin. And so for my analogy... there are no more Pete Roses left in sports. Guys that will slide face first and eat dirt. Ha... I've turned to sarcasm because I have ZERO answers for anything anymore. This team might end up a 500 team, breaking Self's record for March Madness... or they might bring home a trophy. It's not just them that are completely unpredictable... so are the other 362 teams.

@drgnslayr I would not expect either extreme outcome. This team looks more like a second game of the tournament flame out than not making it or advancing far. Not enough talent or heart to win it all. DP is amazing though, watching him for a year will be fun. Better yet I think Tiller will be a guy we get to watch develop into a stud.

@dylans My guess is second weekend but it will depend on seeding and match-ups of course.

It's way too early to hold a burial ceremony for this team. We didn't look great in 2022 either... until late. I know we aren't a huge lineup team. Neither was our 2022 team. We have the guys who can do what we did in 2022 if they come together and learn HOW to leave all their guts on the court. I'm sure they were exhausted after the UNC game, but that second half was completely disorganized, and overmatched. They didn't respond the right way to compete and got blown out in that half. They lost composure. They could really use some leadership... maybe it will be "leadership by committee" like we had in 2022.

@drgnslayr
Way too early is true. Could we please have someone(s) plus Tiller hitting threes in bunches. I can't remember what early game it was last year when Bill unleashed the team from deep but the shooters were abysmal and the whole season was distressing after that. Happy Veterans Day.

@Zabudda said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

@drgnslayr
Way too early is true. Could we please have someone(s) plus Tiller hitting threes in bunches. I can't remember what early game it was last year when Bill unleashed the team from deep but the shooters were abysmal and the whole season was distressing after that. Happy Veterans Day.

Yea, this team doesn't appear to be set up to make a ton of 3s. I hope that turns out to be not true.
It's my yearly complaint...but i haven't won any national championships.
Repeating what i posted awhile back: this team seems built to run and gun, but Bill forgot you need shooters to make that work.

@drgnslayr

I took a look at the last few seasons for some top teams on the road.

Here's a quick scan of some top teams for the all with + win/loss records on the road in last two seasons.

Uconn/Duke/UNC/Kentucky/Bama/Tennessee/Mich St/Purdue/Houston/Iowa St/Arizona/Texas Tech.

Might be more but that's enough to paint a good picture of what's going on.

@BeddieKU23 said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

@drgnslayr

I took a look at the last few seasons for some top teams on the road.

Here's a quick scan of some top teams for the all with + win/loss records on the road in last two seasons.

Uconn/Duke/UNC/Kentucky/Bama/Tennessee/Mich St/Purdue/Houston/Iowa St/Arizona/Texas Tech.

Might be more but that's enough to paint a good picture of what's going on.

KU used to be a mighty road team...Self would always emphasize that.

I was readimg different KU articles today. Came across a article wish this NIL would of been in effect at the time , we could of used it for some of our past players that transferred out that we sure could use now, Dickinson really hurt us.

There was this article that talked about previous KU players :- -Zuby went from relly nothing here at KU is averaging 22 points per & 8 rebounds-- -how about Udeh ?-- right now he is averaging 11 points & 12 rebounds and 3 blocks pe ggame- - -and just not getting the right people and knowing they are a bad fit, Coach came out and said our /boy from Alabama was a bit fit--well this year he is averaging 18 points a game-- Rylan is Averaging 12 points a game -those two were just not Bill Self style players and the way Bill runs his offense was not good fits for them - -we sure could of used them--would LOVE to have Zuby was named to pre season Big East Player of the year. Dam

Even Coit , I mean yes I agree he was used pretty well but still another player doing better NOT in Coach's system-- Averaging 11 points per game

Does anyone really want more Diggy Coit?

Kohl Tiller and DP may be able to hit the 3 consistently. That seems like a solid core for the 3 ball.

We have the guys who can hit 3s... but their success will be based on how our offense runs. We have to space/time well and then they are open. We've got trey shooters at several positions including the 5 (or 4) with Tiller. Tiller is the real deal from 3 versus Dickinson. He truly was a case of false gold for us. I think he was 50% of the problem we had the last 2 years. The rest we all described in detail both years.

I'm still very psyched on the potential with this team. Would be good to know if DP will iron out his issues and play solid minutes every game.

We don't have super height, but we have good all-around height. What we have is pretty good athleticism. For me... that spells the need to always bring high energy to games. If we don't, we stand a pretty good chance of looking like the second half of UNC again.

Many of you have been here for years with me. I've always been a big fan of Bill. But I've never claimed he was a cheerleader-like coach that could get his guys jacked up before a game. It's just not his style.

If this team ever comes out with the gusto UNC showed the second half we will smash ALL teams in D1! I feel 100% certain of that!

So if Bill isn't going to push the "ra ra" button on this team, who will? Maybe Melvin! He's a pretty animated kid and he's full of speed and energy... he could do it!

@drgnslayr If Peterson can’t play 30 minutes a night, every game (at least in the tournament) KU’s ceiling is much lower. Boy is he good, but I prefer him as a player to a cheerleader.

@dylans He's awesome. But we need more than DP to go far this year. We need to make it happen as a team.

I'm having my doubts if he'll be a guy we get for 30+ a game, every game. There is a very heavy focus on keeping him protected from injury. Not only is this about saving him, it's helping us recruit more top shelf talent in the future. I've been mentioning this for a while... our recruiting philosophy has changed somewhat... along with our coaching style.

Whether we like it or not, for the most part we can expect to replace at least 75% of our roster every year. And because of that, Self has shifted to going after more top shelf HS recruits, along with changing his coaching style to be a little more forgiving away from his origins; a "defense first" style of play, and beating down harder on his players. You can see it now. We have a very athletic team and he isn't guaranteeing they will become a defense that fights over screens.

Also... I think Vaughn is now "in trial" to become his replacement. I still think it will be 2 - 5 years away, unless Bill has another health episode. I'm very amped up with the thoughts of a Vaughn Jayhawk coaching legacy!

I’m glad Vaughn is on the staff, but it rarely works that an assistant takes over a program and does well. Vaughn has been a head coach, but had not had success. I don’t know if it’s lack of opportunity or if that’s his ceiling.

Good points about Vaughn, of course, but it's fun to think of this as Self's coaching tree but with the branch trained to stay close to the trunk - a few years' fertilization and we get to keep the fruit!

Vaughn didnt coach college. Nba is a different animal and i think he did a good job developing the young talent at all of his stops. I have yet to be convinced that his time in the nba foreshadows failure at the college level. The contrary.

@approxinfinity Agree 100%. I don’t think anyone would have been successful coaching the Brooklyn dumpster fire he stepped into.

@approxinfinity Jacque is 50. Probably close to a finished product. I’d rather see a younger hire.

@dylans Bill was 41, Roy was 37. But 50s the new 41 :) especially for a former elite athlete.

Jacque Vaughn had a 13 year pro career that Bill didnt have. If he didnt he would be 37.

I think at this juncture hiring an nba veteran is the right approach. Kids want to play for a pro. That pretty much means they are going to be older (and healthier) than Bill when we hired him.

@approxinfinity Nope. Outside of the sleezy Larry Brown KU coaches last over a decade. Jacque barely has that in him and the job isn’t available yet. That would not be a long term hire and we’d be back in this spot very soon - assuming he can coach and is allowed to finish his tenure. There are many better candidates. What I have leaned is fans are terrible at these decisions. They are emotion based - which is the absolute worst way to make a decision. - See both the far ends of the political spectrum- all retards driven by emotion.

@dylans so youre saying Jacque isnt sleazy enough. You dont think most of the machinery around Self would stay on if he retires? You dont think Jacque knows how the money works having spent 13 years as a pro and then coachng pros thereafter?

@dylans said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

@approxinfinity Nope. Outside of the sleezy Larry Brown KU coaches last over a decade. Jacque barely has that in him and the job isn’t available yet. That would not be a long term hire and we’d be back in this spot very soon - assuming he can coach and is allowed to finish his tenure. There are many better candidates. What I have leaned is fans are terrible at these decisions. They are emotion based - which is the absolute worst way to make a decision. - See both the far ends of the political spectrum- all retards driven by emotion.

Are you saying my desire to see Vaughn head coach at Kansas is emotional? ARE YOU SAYING MY DESIRE TO SEE VAUGHN HEAD COACH AT KANSAS IS EMOTIONAL?! lol

Okay... let me phrase that differently... lol

I never even thought of his age. It is a point worth making. But who is the young one to step in? If you go too young, they have little experience and seem more risky. If Vaughn were to step in within the next couple years I think I'm still cool with his age. He could possibly go 20 years. I think the coaching situation in college basketball is starting to change just like the player situation. I'm not expecting we land a 30-year coach from here on out.

@approxinfinity said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

@dylans so youre saying Jacque isnt sleazy enough. You dont think most of the machinery around Self would stay on if he retires? You dont think Jacque knows how the money works having spent 13 years as a pro and then coachng pros thereafter?

No I am saying he’s old as fuck. Don’t hire old dudes to coach 18 year olds. An entirely new staff is in order. No carryovers - how many of Roy’s guys did Bill keep around? How many of Larry’s guys did Roy keep around? A fresh start/clean slate would be in order to keep the loyalty from being divided. Roy’s guys basically revolted for Self (never bought in) - imagine if the assistants had all been the same? Ugg

Youre just being contrarian :)

Vaughn, currently at 50 could coach for 15 or so years if he took over in the next couple of years. He also has strong NBA connections that would be a selling point for high level recruits and transfers with NBA potential.

@approxinfinity Not on this one. Jacque was my favorite player until Mario came along. I don’t want an old coach nor is Jacque on my list of dream candidates. Dream assistant sure, head coach no way.

Do you guys remember Luke Barnwell from sunrise in wichita? I was hoping we'd pick him when he left and joined Iowa's staff. I saw his brother in wichita yesterday, he use to play on our team in the summer. He told me he would've joined KU's staff if they would've asked. Wondered what you all thought? They're a big KU family, and I think Luke did a great job at sunrise.

@Crimsonorblue22 said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

Do you guys remember Luke Barnwell from sunrise in wichita? I was hoping we'd pick him when he left and joined Iowa's staff. I saw his brother in wichita yesterday, he use to play on our team in the summer. He told me he would've joined KU's staff if they would've asked. Wondered what you all thought? They're a big KU family, and I think Luke did a great job at sunrise.

Nice guy not good enough for KU imo

@dylans said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

What I have leaned is fans are terrible at these decisions

If this is true, then there's a pretty good chance we are all wrong.

I'm assuming all of us are KU fans...

Right or wrong, google says "The average age for a Division I men's basketball head coach was 50 in 2023"

@bskeet A fan, yes. That is a big reason (oh that and I don’t have the knowledge - so take my uneducated opinion for what it is) I’m glad I’m not in on the hiring process.

KU is not the average NCAA program; 120 years, 8 coaches. Hiring some old dude isn’t the way.

@dylans im sure the next century will look a little different than the last one.

@approxinfinity Yes... it wouldn't surprise me if in the very near future head coaches will be aided mostly by AI and a prompter.

@dylans It's all perspective. To me, he's a young pup - still wet behind the ears. Get someone with experience. Say, Roy Williams.

@approxinfinity said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

@dylans im sure the next century will look a little different than the last one.

Currently circling the toilet.

@dylans sure with that attitude

@approxinfinity I have nothing to do with KU sucking at sports currently. The NCAA does have a lot to do with that. Why would I embrace losing culture?

@dylans oh i thought you were talking about the world circling the toilet, not KU sports.

Anyway, reality is perspective right?

@dylans i went to a ncaa division iii tournament soccer game yesterday. On my left were parents of travel soccer players from a few states away whose children now play for the local team, Hampton Sydney. They were uptight and generally boring, small minded people, full of negativity. The announcer said something about “respect is the name of the game” to which one of the mothers muttered “winning is the name of the game”. Her son was on the bench after season ending surgery.

The people on my right were Hampton Sydney college students who knew less about soccer but were excited and positive about the game. They were enjoying the moment. Fun to be around. Happy to shoot the shit.

I am an optimist and I like to believe the the people to my left are the past, and the people to the right the future.

Everything can be what we want it to be. Sports, society, everything. That requires accepting it for what it is and fulfilling the small part we can play to get us there.

As for losing culture, i dont think where we are is too far off from where we need to be.

And i dont want a weirdo stalker or wife beater. So thats where i am coming from.

I havent heard any strong argument that Jacque cant be the guy here.

None of us can predict the future. We've certainly taken hits for several things in the past decade. Maybe the biggest was conference changes.

In the end... it's business. And what makes good business? Fans of schools being able to watch their teams and also with more attention to rival games. Slowly... things are settling down and old rivals (misery) are being scheduled again.

Where we really get screwed now is on tv packages.

@drgnslayr said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

None of us can predict the future. We've certainly taken hits for several things in the past decade. Maybe the biggest was conference changes.

In the end... it's business. And what makes good business? Fans of schools being able to watch their teams and also with more attention to rival games. Slowly... things are settling down and old rivals (misery) are being scheduled again.

Where we really get screwed now is on tv packages.

What are they (ncaa) doing for the fans? This is a farce. I just wish the mob would get behind KU so they could start covering more spreads. @jaybate was right, the entire system is broken.

@approxinfinity said in UNC Matchup Friday Night:

@dylans

Everything can be what we want it to be. Sports, society, everything. That requires accepting it for what it is and fulfilling the small part we can play to get us there.

That is the biggest pile of horse shit I’ve ever heard in my life. You should run for office.

@dylans small minds can't see past Uranus

[link text](

@dylans

I used to be as optimistic as @approxinfinity ... and it's a sad day when I'm not that positive. The people who really know me always counted on me being a bright source of light. My light has dimmed... brought about by the changes in college sports, but also our society and how cold blooded a large percentage of our population has become. I'm not wanting to start a political conversation so I won't point fingers.

What I still believe in is some form of organic process that will usually bring us to a more palatable situation in college sports. That's why I point to things like Kansas and Missouri starting to see the light in how important rival games are. I'm not up on if that has made a difference in our recent games or is this just some SEC-B12 thing. When I say "organic" my example is when America decided for prohibition. And then the market exploded with illegal booze and speakeasy establishments developed.

Players being paid... that should have happened a long time ago. Eventually, just like the portal, things will settle down and make a little more sense.

Society has changed a lot less than the media brain washed people to believe. Go outside people.

I’m going to take a break from this toxic environment. Best of luck this season Jayhawk fans!

@dylans lets talk in dms.

!nothing is fucked here ↗

@dylans Great advice!

Come back after your fresh air!