Well I don't care if we play a 3-2 or a 4-1 or a 0-5. Let's just get a win tonight. Let's go Jayhawks.

Let's go #Jayhawks. I am so ready for the season.

RockChalk

so, is this the game thread?

I wasn't sure so I just made it. You all can use the other one too.

Looks like we're starting two bigs. Thumbs up.

That one camera is missing one of the the RGB channels

Is Moss playing at all tonight?

I thought I heard saturday that moss won't play

Great thanks

Let's Geaux Jayhawks!

Nice fake Devon.

It's been a long time since the end of last season.

That was easy for Garrett.

Nice Drive!

Is Hurt gonna do that all night?

Wow. we should play some d.

Dot not great so far

We can't have 2 bigs on the floor if we're gonna give up wide open 3s.

the drone camera needs to die in a fiery crash

Why did we just lose the ball? Stupid ESPn camera angles no clue.

How is that a 3 second call? We weren't even in our set offense.

(Bilas said 3 second call)

Phantom

Defense is offensive

But let's see how this game settles down

I warned you guys about Hurt. He's their best offensive player.

Just reviewed the 3 second call. Legit call.

Who was it? @wissox

Hurt and Jones can shoot, we need a couple shoots to open up the lane more.

Gotta throw it inside all night long.

If Jones hurts us from deep then I'll live with it. We need to contest Hurt.

@approxinfinity DeSousa I think? His foot stayed in the lane which is a violation.

Ball screen defense seems the biggest issue may have to go to some auto switches and see if we can hedge passing lanes

I'll be looking for Duke's 3 second calls starting the countdown from the moment their PG crosses halfcourt from now on @wissox

Not sure Bill will make it through the game without pulling Mitch's redshirt

Coach k has the refs nice and tighty

Bad lineup for Duke need to take advantage

Was that a 3 second call?

Didn't see the travel there.

@approxinfinity You can do that, but I really think it was a legit call. The three count didn't start with the scramble. It was definitely after that.

Bill needs to sit Doke for a bit

Oof. yep.

Hahah doke walking to Pennsylvania

Who's #2? Oh, and newsflash Zion can jump.

At least we are driving and drawing fouls

Walk

Stanley travelled on that save.

Not a foul

Two missed travels on Duke. Come on.

Jones TRAVEL

I don't consider myself to be Un-American, but Azibuke is the biggest disappointment I can ever remember in a Jayhawk uniform.

They used up their quota of travel calls on us.

our offense is crapola. what is this?

They hated to call that foul

Once we settle we're going to route these kids.

Looks our fastest guy is about 8th on their team. No speed shown thus far, better wake up fellas.

We aren't looking to shoot the 3 at all

Coach still trying to find the right squad.

@Crimsonorblue22 I hate to be that guy, but I went back and watched. McCormack violated dukies vertical space. Pretty clear call.

Duke fans throwing stuff on floor.

Duke bigs hitting threes and Doke is a turnover machine. Not ideal.

Gary woodland there

Enanura wet

First shot as a Jayhawk! Way to make it count!

Hope.we.can stick with a 4-1

Oh.my Dave!

approxinfinity said:

Hope.we.can stick with a 4-1

Yes plz

Offensive foul

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Gary woodland there

Justin Thomas is with him

What a call.

First time I yelled at the TV all season. Has anyone ever seen a call like that?

7 turnovers. Killing ourselves

Love how much ground Agbaji can guard.

So far Dave > Doke

So dumb

Woodrow said:

7 turnovers. Killing ourselves

Stop turning the ball over and it's a win

What's the deal with the Avatar filter?

Their overhead cam is jacked! That's as close to red uniforms as we are getting this year

Is it bad that I wish Wilson would have stayed with Michigan and I had lightfoot in right now.

@bmensch1 A little too early to tell if Wilson's going to work out don't you think?

bmensch1 said:

Is it bad that I wish Wilson would have stayed with Michigan and I had lightfoot in right now.

Wilson is def gonna take time but he will be good. Hope he sticks it out at KU. Wilson, Braun, Enaruna is a really nice core by year three.

That's a garbage call.

Duke ref

Wuss

Wow that was great Agbaji

Enaruna with the length as mentioned.

approxinfinity said:

Wow that was great Agbaji

Holy smokes that was sweet

Finally

Man if we stop turning the ball over we may win this. Sloppy sloppy.

Enaruna is going to be a kid that's hard not to play. Some real poise in him

So... From what I've seen I don't think Doke is going to be happy with his PT this year.

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

Man if we stop turning the ball over we may win this. Sloppy sloppy.

No kidding

approxinfinity said:

So... From what I've seen I don't think Doke is going to be happy with his PT this year.

Honestly, should he have even come back?

I'll see myself out.

Its game 1

@stoptheflop I thought it was my tv. Weird

approxinfinity said:

So... From what I've seen I don't think Doke is going to be happy with his PT this year.

If they are not going to get him the ball in the post then he’s not too effective. When you have 11 turnovers in 12 minutes it’s hard to get into any sets.

Self needs to draw a play up for him. Get him a touch or two where he can work.

@BeddieKU23 if enanura and Braun are ahead of schedule, doke is the worst ft shooter and the worst rebounding 5.

What's duke shooting? 20%?

Not sure if Dotson is 100% tbh

Wilson will do well under coach

DanR said:

What's duke shooting? 20%?

31%

A lot more shots for them due to KU turnovers and crashing the offensive glass (in part due to missing so much).

Agbaji looks like our best player right now but I will reserve judgment for when Dot is fully healthy.

Bilas is in full putz mode

What in the F was that

Shiiiiiiiit

My god they suck

So many missed chances but that wasn't a walk lmao

Huge lols

Hahaha that's an offensive foul

@BeddieKU23 Who sucks?

I wish we had another PG so Self could sit Dotsons ass after turning it over out of a TO

duke flopper. Always have to have one

14 turnovers . Pathetic

Woodrow said:

14 turnovers . Pathetic

Absurd really.

What a joke

Give me a break.

WTF is that call on Ochai?

STFU bilas you P****

@BShark

Whatevs

NO SHIT

That was in the cylinder. When you put your head on another plays shoulder, that happens. Give me a break.

Toughening Box, population: Doke

So KU gets freedom of movement fouls on both ends🤷🏻‍♂️

It's almost like Bilas is in love with Duke or something. Weird.

Bilas can fuck off

What about the new head flop rule?

Meh when you play d like that that's what ya get

Too much pressure on Doke

Trailing in a game where we should be up 10. Woof.

Both teams playing like crap, but these KU turnovers are nuts

@Crimsonorblue22 is there a new headflop rule?

It's not like Duke is even doing much defensively ffs.

At the game.

The turnovers are just absurd. Should be winning by double digits

Dok and Mac with 2 fouls each. Time to pull Lightfoot's redshirt. JK

Kcmatt7 said:

At the game.

The turnovers are just absurd. Should be winning by double digits

Exactly. Just get heads out of asses and this can still be a W.

Mitch would be a calming factor

Man some of the calls are bad but mostly we are just shooting ourselves in the foot. We can't keep turning it over like this. This is pathetic.

Stop talking about freaking college football.

Get this joker off my TV

Good hard foul by Enanura. Like this kid a lot.

ESPN is so stupid. Go to a half screen while a basketball game is happening.

wissox said:

ESPN is so stupid. Go to a half screen while a basketball game is happening.

:hundred_points: get this guy off the screen.

I'd rather listen to these two talk about football than listen to BullAss slobber over Duke.

Dotson is out of it

@approxinfinity yeah, DG would have trouble

DanR said:

Dotson is out of it

Definitely still hurt don't care what he or Bill say.

Just a matter of time before 16 turnovers cost you the game

17

Hard to watch

Gonna get bad now

Flop so hard.

Tripper

Duke refs

Of course you thought it looked like a foul, bilas

They watched all of greyson Allen's kicking highlights

Game again, ugly

Good break!

Our turnovers, the zebras, and ESPNs clown coverage. Formula for making this look like a close tough game.

It's gonna feel good when we win this game.

Nice drive

Pretty sure we're killing them on the boards

Pretty sloppy by both clubs as you’d expect first night out. Disappointed every questionable has gone Dooks way.

Tristan had a layup

Tristan needs to just jam that sh

Tristan buddy they gave you the layup.

So sloppy

Lolz enaruna

Dunk it

Look at it

shoot in that situation

9 offensive rebounds for Duke

Duke ref

18 turnovers in a half lmao

We’re to veteran of a team to look this shitty against a team this young

There's no way that was out on Kansas.

Get rid of the zombie drone camera ESPN.

@DanR is that on purpose?

I watched the highlights of the Wiggins Duke game and man oh man, that was better ball

Kcmatt7 said:

We’re to veteran of a team to look this shitty against a team this young

Need time actually playing together.

The good part of that half we cant possibly play any worsr

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

There's no way that was out on Kansas.

Might be the worst call of the night. The fact that Duke is only up three is insane.

Lots of different pieces and parts. Our team is going to be very very good this year. Not worried about that. Right now I just want to do what it takes to smoke these fools and leave with the W

@Crimsonorblue22 not intentional... got a camera problem

We good.

Halftime bullet points:

Stop turning it over.

Box out.

Keep your feet on the floor unless you're going to shoot the ball.

18 to's and only down 3 against duke

Wow, was that sloppy. No poise whatsoever. Lucky to be down 3.

Here's my rant on replay. Why is a play in the last two minutes of a game any more important than a call any other time? That out of bounds play should be reviewed. It's a potential 6 point swing in a game if they get a 3 out of it denying us the chance to get a 3. If you're going to have replays change the rules so a team can challenge twice in a game whenever.

Rebound and don’t turn it over and it’s a 10 point game.

EIGHTEEN TURNOVERS - - -EIGHTEEN in ONE half. - -what the hell , we got anyone who can handle the ball ? - - Eighteen to's but only down 3.

Our intimidating frontline - - - - 4 points - - 5 fouls.

looking for a different 2nd half

Duke has taken 14 more shots. Crazy...

Watching these kinds of Kansas games make me feel like I drank 64 oz of coffee and took an ambien.

BShark said:

Duke has taken 14 more shots. Crazy...

TO'S

BeddieKU23 said:

The good part of that half we cant possibly play any worsr

I'm looking for less then 10 TO'S in 2nd half - - - -bets?

Doke has 3 fouls?

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

Watching these kinds of Kansas games make me feel like I drank 64 oz of coffee and took an ambien.

Lol

Fun stat. Hurt didn’t score once we put Marcus on him. Dude can play.

@Crimsonorblue22 I didn’t think the officiating was bad. Dook just got the benefit of the doubt on several calls.

Remember that Kansas team that had to play a perfect game to scrape past Duke to the F4 2 years ago? That's not this team. We are the deeper, more talented team. And if we see these guys in the tournament, we're going to crush them.

So not joking. My company recently closed and I have a job interview in 50 minutes. I'm going to have to watch the 2nd half on replay. I hope we win. Cheer hard, boys.

KirkIsMyHinrich said:

So not joking. My company recently closed and I have a job interview in 50 minutes. I'm going to have to watch the 2nd half on replay. I hope we win. Cheer hard, boys.

Good luck man!

@approxinfinity Thank you. And by my company I mean the company that I worked for.

@FarmerJayhawk our perimeter D with Marcus and Agbaji should be able to get big stops.

approxinfinity said:

@FarmerJayhawk our perimeter D with Marcus and Agbaji should be able to get big stops.

Yup. We’ve guarded the absolute donkey ish out of them

There you go DAVE!

FarmerJayhawk said:

Fun stat. Hurt didn’t score once we put Marcus on him. Dude can play.

Yeah Marcus is good, I won't blame him if KU loses this game.

Nothing changed

Our FT defense is pretty stout tonight.

Marcus does need to make uncontested layups though. Blew 2.

approxinfinity said:

Marcus does need to make uncontested layups though. Blew 2.

That was pretty bad :(

Guard that

More poise

Yeah I'm sure Tre Jones is why Hurt chose Duke. Totally.

Wow Doke. Ok! Quick getting out of that double. He's got a handful of nice passes now.

I don't remember that cut play from last year. I like it.

Hurt is a wuss

Looks like this team got coached up at half time

One of these two coaches is a halftime God.

BOOM

@approxinfinity K's only hope after the half is to work the refs.

AGbaji magic

Oh no, Ochai please be okay.

That's what I want to see!!!!

@wissox

He already paid them now he just bitches to remind them

Amazing what happens when you don't turn it over every damn play.

@BShark cramping?

@BShark

What he land on?

That was foul, couldn’t follow thru or land clean easy call for most folks.

Should be 4

@BShark It wasn't every play that we turned it over because if it was, we'd have zero points! Just felt like it.

@Crimsonorblue22 Hope so. Really don't want it to be his shin acting up again. For his sake and ours.

@FarmerJayhawk @kjayhawks Duke refs.

@wissox :face_with_tears_of_joy:

Giddy up

🐦 View Tweet

Bilas makes me miss Billy Packer.

@BShark blue men

nuleafjhawk said:

Bilas makes me miss Billy Packer.

Let's not say things we can't take back! :p

Bilas makes me miss vitale

Fouls mounting on some of our guys.

@BeddieKU23 NO

@BShark they Garrett a shit call in the first when wasn’t a foul!!!

DanR said:

@BeddieKU23 NO

Diaper dandy dipsy do kangaroo. Had to say it

Bwag said:

Fouls mounting on some of our guys.

Silvio appears to be the lost man. Wonder if he will get tick due to foul trouble.

Is Dicky V still alive? I asked that question at the beginning of each season.

Ochai is the best player in this game. Don't @ me.

@DanR yes he is, Bilas isn’t usually this bias to us. Will call out everything on KU but crickets on Dook.

Good thing we didn't ask you, jay

@DanR I think he is. But regardless, he can shoot FT's better than Azibuke.

Who do you want on the break? Ochai, my friends.

Don't show him!

Yeah that's a foul

That probably hurt

So slapping someone in the face when they throw their head back is considered flagrant review worthy but landing on top of someone and slamming them into the stancheon isn't. Makes sense.

keep the FOOT DOWN

Legit hate to see that. Hope Javin is okay.

I don't know why y'all dislike Bilas. I don't see much bias in him.

Another wuss

@wissox Your Duke comrades must have compromat on you.

Of course a Carey 3 ends the run

Not sure what Dmac is doing on D, but it's not good

Tristan is gonna be a DUDE eventually.

Just missed a bunch of FTs. Big lead disappears.

34% is generous, Jay.

White can stay on the floor while bleeding all over the place.

wissox said:

Just missed a bunch of FTs. Big lead disappears.

Neither team wants to hit them apparently.

Oh well 2 misses

@BShark We were 8-11 at the half

Pure on that second freebie, DOkE

Smart of them to foul Doke tbh

Tristan not ready for prime time

Oh my god how many steps are you going to give Jones?

DanR said:

Tristan not ready for prime time

Agree but I think he will get there eventually. Very promising.

Tristan is forcing everything.

@BShark he travels every time he touches the ball, but luckily they aren't calling it

@approxinfinity Well it is in Madison Square Garden. Refs usually don't call those there.

Woodrow said:

Tristan is forcing everything.

By far his biggest issue. He isn't a playmaker yet, he needs to do what he can and move the ball.

Come on Dotson. He’s been awful with the ball.

Turning it over again...

This comeback not induced by the duke whistle. It's self induced.

The lead was nice for a few minutes

Should have called a timeout two plays ago, Bill.

Gotta make that wide open three.

Silly turnovers and walking up the floor, brilliant if you want to lose.

After looking so good...now 3 TOs in a row.

Why do I get so worked up over a game a bunch of teenagers are playing?

Sweet

Garrett could probably do that every time. Nice.

ESPN box says it's 4 on Doke.

I'm not happy with the kerning on A ZUBUK I 's jersey

Any layups???

All right, let's kick some butt the final quarter

Can't fault the effort at least...

Any higher a lob and it would've been over the backboard, Jay.

Jay=fran

Walk

Bilas is an idiot tonight.

Five point turnaround, Dotson

Duke just inbounded the ball after our last FT's to a guy inbounds who walked out of bounds. NO CALL.

5 point swing. Just killer

Missing Doke's boards

Agbaji didnt need to pass the 3 on 1 at all. He should have posterized the dude.

3 secs

Crimsonorblue22 said:

3 secs

Should have been lol

Oh no Silvio...

What is with Dotson.

Complete slopfest

It’s November but there is no reason KU should lose this game. Will be a bad loss.

Cant make layups cant do nothing

Woodrow said:

It’s November but there is no reason KU should lose this game. Will be a bad loss.

Really is a bad loss.

That’s it

Should be duke ball

No more Big Dave jumpers

They didn't overturn the call at the end of the half.

Game paused because a rat is on the court.

Lol K goes check cleared

Five minutes of good basketball will win this easily.

I should go back to grading papers.

DanR said:

Five minutes of good basketball will win this easily.

Not sure if this team is capable atm

Time to pull the redshirt off Mitch.

Just lazy defensively and walking down the floor. They want it a fair share more than us.

Enough of this BS, time to watch the Smithsonian channel.

Seriously, we need someone out there who can set a screen and be in the right place

It was 46-37 with 14:35 to go. 6 points in 7 minutes ain't gonna do it.

Feels like they are up 20

Shut up Bilas, he raked his head

I've seen a lot worse.

Time to find a new pg

Free throws

That wasn’t a foul and the ball was of Ochai

The curse of greyson lives on. That one took a trip around the rim.

@Woodrow Luuuucccccky

Need leader

Pathetic

Shoot all the 40 footers you want, Duke

Moss should be able to help this team.

Good gosh

Time for ugly ball. Just drive it.

Jesus Christ. Marcus needs to be able to shoot that. Wide open

.

Call a F’ing TO Bill

Ok there isnt any point playing a post guy who cant make a move

MARC G

Nice feed

push off my ass

@DanR finally

The commentators are overdubbing their own calls onthis game.

isn't that Doke's 7th foul?

Push off this

27 turnovers and leading is insane.

would like to see garrett or Ochai drive instead of the Dave 12 footer

Are you kidding me Dave!

Get up Garrett, please. :crossed_fingers_light_skin_tone:

Matt Hurt is legit

If our best offense is a McCormack jumper let's scrap that playbook bill

My wife just got home and after watching the game for ONE MINUTE, she said "whoever is talking hates KU"

BShark said:

27 turnovers and leading is insane.

Not anymore

BeddieKU23 said:

If our best offense is a McCormack jumper let's scrap that playbook bill

Maybe Bill thinks he has Matt Hurt.

Crazy that we are still in the game lol. Hopefully Garrett is okay. Defense has to be good here.

Seriously, if Dave takes another jumper...

I don't think Mac taking that jumper is in the playbook....

Well, at least Dave got a shot off before a clock violation

@BShark I think Self is butt-hurt over Hurt

DanR said:

isn't that Doke's 7th foul?

If you've been listening to the announcers, yes.

I mean it's not like we have anyone who can shoot on the floor anyway other then a wide open agbaji

Nice!

KU is +10 on the glass. They've shot 9% better from the floor. They've made and shot 6 more free throws. They should be up by 15+. Instead, they're down one because turnovers.

From a guy on twitter that is absolutely correct.

Dot has had that lane all night. I guess he was just waiting

Geez

Drive it, Dotson.

D dot🤷‍♀️

Dot seems to be at about 80%

LET"S GO.

Rim monster

Well. Dotson. Picture Frank Mason.

Game

DanR said:

Dot seems to be at about 80%

LET"S GO.

Seems clear to me as well

@BShark he's hopping after some of those drives. Definitely favoring one ankle.

I am shocked how bad KU looks. Duke is not very good at all. Not right now anyway .

I guess I’d rather Jones hot that that Allen in the elite 8. Just too sloppy to pull it out tonight

Its a one point game and we have the ball

Dmac

Dotson.

LOL

Marc G

Braun in for... ?

Need a 3, game over :)

Why foul him?

Well that was awful

2hours I'll never get back

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Why foul him?

Only 3 second difference in clocks. Had to foul.

Dave has to be better than that Doke was wide open.

@Woodrow but him?

God that was so stupid

@BShark why put Dave in the position to have to make that pass?

DanR said:

@BShark why put Dave in the position to have to make that pass?

Exactly. He could not do anything with it there. Dotson has been awful.

Shocked Dave is still out there

Can't even make a layup

I miss Mitch.

What the f are we shooting a 2 here for

Good job good effort

Just a very very average team

Enanura Braun Jalen Agbaji Dotson. Shoot a 3

No way this is a Final 4 team no way.

Duke sucks. But we got a lot of work to do.

You guys are nuts. We are so much better than this Duke team once we figure it out.

We have nobody that can make a shot again

approxinfinity said:

You guys are nuts. We are so much better than this Duke team once we figure it out.

Very much agree with this.

Doke and Silvio haven't played in a year

Hard to believe we looked this bad not starting a single freshman.

Have to be smarter and shoot 3s better. It is that simple. Athleticism isn’t the issue.

Silvio was better two years ago than he is now, based on this game.

Our issues are fixable.

Bill needs to start recruiting bigs that can shoot.

@DanR how can you tell? he barely played.

We have zero shooters

Moss

Post-mortems: death from a 1000 cuts and inability to get offensive flow.

BShark said:

Bill needs to start recruiting bigs that can shoot.

He did. One plays for the other team. And Wilson just isn’t ready.

We only took 11 threes. Wow.

Oh well. F Duke.

Kcmatt7 said:

BShark said:

Bill needs to start recruiting bigs that can shoot.

He did. One plays for the other team. And Wilson just isn’t ready.

True, true.

With 28 turnovers you don't get to shoot many threes

I’m pissed, Jones is the player better than Dotson. Dook has better players and a better coach.

BShark said:

We only took 11 threes. Wow.

Bill “no analytics will change the way I play the game even if I make a FF with four guards” Self

@kjayhawks whoa! U can have him!

kjayhawks said:

I’m pissed, Jones is ten times the player of Dotson. Dook has better players and a better coach.

no

I don't think we can blame the Duke whistle on this one. Duke is ranked 3 in the country. Maybe the pollsters are right and we just lost to a really good team in our first outing of the season?

Didn't seem to have a 3pt shooter on the floor - or ability to get someone open on the wing to take the shot.

@kjayhawks Have fun watching Duke this year. Come back when they're a round of 32 out and Kansas is rolling.

@wissox Yes, but we were our own worst enemy.

wissox said:

I don't think we can blame the Duke whistle on this one. Duke is ranked 3 in the country. Maybe the pollsters are right and we just lost to a really good team in our first outing of the season?

Honestly both teams looked bad to me. I want to see this KU team with a truly healthy Dotson (he was clearly still hobbled a bit) and Moss in the mix as well.

wissox said:

I don't think we can blame the Duke whistle on this one. Duke is ranked 3 in the country. Maybe the pollsters are right and we just lost to a really good team in our first outing of the season?

I refuse to believe this watching the game. We shot ourselves in the foot 20 times tonight.

@Kcmatt7 Good news is we had a lot of correctable errors.

@BShark I forgot Dotson is still hurt. That's comforting.

Modern basketball 1-0-1, you have to make and guard the 3.

@BShark Yes...Moss should help. We need another outside threat.

Dotson is clearly not 100%, but running the hi-lo offense through Big Dave ain't going to do it either.

Guys were practically running into each other on offense.

approxinfinity said:

@BShark I forgot Dotson is still hurt. That's comforting.

He was getting by guys at times still but you could really tell he wasn't right. Rest up and get a W on Friday.

This team is going to steamroll people once they’re healthy and develop chemistry. Calm down people.

@approxinfinity right lol because Jones made Dotson look foolish repeatedly I’m a Dook fan right. You from Missouri?

DanR said:

Dotson is clearly not 100%, but running the hi-lo offense through Big Dave ain't going to do it either.

Guys were practically running into each other on offense.

I'm very over playing 2 5s at the same time.

@BShark me too!

@BShark hasn’t worked in years, 16-18 was great with four guards.

BShark said:

DanR said:

Dotson is clearly not 100%, but running the hi-lo offense through Big Dave ain't going to do it either.

Guys were practically running into each other on offense.

I'm very over playing 2 5s at the same time.

FF with four guards and Bill writes it off immediately

4 guards that can shoot with Doke only got us a final four, who knows.

kjayhawks said:

@BShark hasn’t worked in years, 16-18 was great with four guards.

The problem, at least as I see it is playing two true centers specifically. Guys with no range at all. We have the pieces to put legit size out there at the 4 spot without completely sacrificing spacing which makes it even more frustrating.

Kcmatt7 said:

BShark said:

DanR said:

Dotson is clearly not 100%, but running the hi-lo offense through Big Dave ain't going to do it either.

Guys were practically running into each other on offense.

I'm very over playing 2 5s at the same time.

FF with four guards and Bill writes it off immediately

Does who those 4 guards are matter?

@BShark I'm not so sure. The concern was how they would do on defense. Our defense didn't suck. Duke shot only 36%. We just need to get it together on offense.

Bwag said:

Kcmatt7 said:

BShark said:

DanR said:

Dotson is clearly not 100%, but running the hi-lo offense through Big Dave ain't going to do it either.

Guys were practically running into each other on offense.

I'm very over playing 2 5s at the same time.

FF with four guards and Bill writes it off immediately

Does who those 4 guards are matter?

Sure. And we have 4 guards on this team plenty capable. Especially now that Enaruna has looked way better than I thought he would at this stage.

Give Tristan, Jalen and Braun all the minutes they can handle.

@tundrahok I agree I've been saying offense is the issue. If we had a guy that could consistently hit that Marcus Morris elbow midrange jumper it would be a different story.

I think Jalen and Tristan are promising at the 4. Wonder what direction Bill will go in.

I better get off here, I’m too mad and will probably say something very bad. We can fix the turnovers but having zero shooters like last season after Vick left is Killer. You can’t make them pay for double teaming the post without it. We had no business losing that one, if we just played smart for more than 6 minutes.

approxinfinity said:

Give Tristan, Jalen and Braun all the minutes they can handle.

We see tonight what Self really thinks of Braun and Wilson.

@BShark Our freshman show promise, but they still look like freshmen. Bill hangs his hat on defense, and the newbies will take a while to figure that out. I can't see him making any changes just yet.

Shooting wasn't the problem 44%

4/11 from three. Just didn't get enough shots due to the turnovers

DanR said:

Shooting wasn't the problem 44%

4/11 from three. Just didn't get enough shots due to the turnovers

100000%

A normal turnover game and this is an easy win.

BShark said:

@tundrahok I agree I've been saying offense is the issue. If we had a guy that could consistently hit that Marcus Morris elbow midrange jumper it would be a different story.

I think Jalen and Tristan are promising at the 4. Wonder what direction Bill will go in.

Bruh you posted the exact opposite like a week ago. We’re going to be a great team. Get Moss, get Dotson healthy, we’ll be fine.

@FarmerJayhawk Defense can still be an issue depending on the opponent. Offense was CLEARLY an issue tonight. Can't shoot, turnover machine.

We will be fine guys. We out shot them in fg% and 3%. Turnovers can be fixed. We will get it figured out by the Michigan State game

rockchalkwyo said:

We will be fine guys. We out shot them in fg% and 3%. Turnovers can be fixed. We will get it figured out by the Michigan State game

We have to beat UCLA or BYU to even play MSU most likely. I'M NOT CONVINCED.

@BShark well we played the stretchiest perimeter team out there and made them look stupid all night. Offense will get a lot better. We’re going to win the league by 3 games.

We have one play maker, Dotson, who didn't make plays or lead. Agbaji is not very good off the ball yet. I think the Lightfoot red-shirt is a mistake. Self's best teams always had a senior who calmed things down simply by being in the right place and doing things correctly.

I'd rather play a stinker like this the first game of the season than the last one.

BigBad said:

We have one play maker, Dotson, who didn't make plays or lead. Agbaji is not very good off the ball yet. I think the Lightfoot red-shirt is a mistake. Self's best teams always had a senior who calmed things down simply by being in the right place and doing things correctly.

We need Dotson's ankle to heal. I'd give him mine if I could.

On Mitch, when you read the statement Bill put out it seems fairly clear to me that Bill wishes he had Mitch available but this is what is best for Mitch getting his post grad paid for.

Our bigs need to finish! Geez!

BShark said:

We have to beat UCLA or BYU to even play MSU most likely. I'M NOT CONVINCED.

Nah we got it

We out shot them percentage wise, field goals, 3 point percentage, (yes they made 4 more total) and free throw percentage. Out rebounded them too by 10. One more block then the dookies, one more steal, even in assists.
Turnovers - 11 more then them. It was close ... Biggus Davus made a bonehead pass, but it could have been us to win
Let’s hope we meet the blue dookwads again in the tourney.

November 5th - - - have to laugh. - - 28 turnovers - -equals 28 less opportunities to score the ball - -- - your point guard turns the ball over 6 times - - your opponent only shoots 36 % - -and you only lose by 2.

Bright spot in this game if there can be one - - -Udoka - -making 2-3 from the ft line - - - -75 % free thowing - - atta boy.

This game is behind us - -time to work on ball handling -- free throw shooting and all that other good stuff - - Dad gummit - so much for us running the table/perfect Season lol - - -can only laugh/that or find new cuss words - - I'll laugh. - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Look at it this way. If we turn it over ONLY 25 TIMES we win. My lord.

We got Moss’d.

FarmerJayhawk said:

Look at it this way. If we turn it over ONLY 25 TIMES we win. My lord.

Imagine if they cut that number in half.

I actually don't feel too terrible about this loss. Just kind of venting with some typing/verbal diarrhea.

Bosthawk said:

We out shot them percentage wise, field goals, 3 point percentage, (yes they make 4 more total) and free throw percentage. Out rebounded them too by 10. One more block then the dookies, one more steal, even in assists.
Turnovers - 11 more then them.

All that ads to a loss. - -final Duke 68 KU -66 - -pretty hard to win when the opponent gets 11 more chances to score - -1st game - - NEXT

We will be much better with Moss. We will be hard to guard.

Had a pretty good 8 minute stretch at the beginning of the 2nd half

Not trying to pile on Dave, but just thinking back to some wasted possessions in the last 3 minutes... illegal screen, stupid bounce pass to Doke. Clanked followup on Garret's miss. Love the dude, but not the guy I want involved in clutch time compared to pretty much anyone else on the team.

DanR said:

Not trying to pile on Dave, but just thinking back to some wasted possessions in the last 3 minutes... illegal screen, stupid bounce pass to Doke. Clanked followup on Garret's miss. Love the dude, but not the guy I want involved in clutch time compared to pretty much anyone else on the team.

Career High and team leading 13 rebounds

@jayballer73 Yeah, I know. Just wish he would've kicked it out to a guard on that last board.

@jayballer73 padding his stats w/misses

Well, it's nice to be old enough to know this game won't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Honestly, we deserved to lose. But Duke really did too.

jayballer73 said:

DanR said:

Not trying to pile on Dave, but just thinking back to some wasted possessions in the last 3 minutes... illegal screen, stupid bounce pass to Doke. Clanked followup on Garret's miss. Love the dude, but not the guy I want involved in clutch time compared to pretty much anyone else on the team.

Career High and team leading 13 rebounds

And? If Self goes back to the 2 big lineup this team WILL NOT reach its potential. This isnt 2010. Our bigs will get exposed on d all season.

@DanR Agreed. This is almost like a practice game. Good for the film room to teach. We will improve from this. We've seen some ugly openers in this thing in past years and recovered.

Devonte Graham scored 35 tonight in an overtime loss.

I think Silvio’s impact was greatly overstated. I’m sure he’s rusty but he didn’t show much of anything tonight. He might not see very many minutes.

BigBad said:

jayballer73 said:

DanR said:

Not trying to pile on Dave, but just thinking back to some wasted possessions in the last 3 minutes... illegal screen, stupid bounce pass to Doke. Clanked followup on Garret's miss. Love the dude, but not the guy I want involved in clutch time compared to pretty much anyone else on the team.

Career High and team leading 13 rebounds

And? If Self goes back to the 2 big lineup this team WILL NOT reach its potential. This isnt 2010. Our bigs will get exposed on d all season.

Uhhh... we were lights out on defense... their only offense was our offense.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@jayballer73 padding his stats w/misses

Or OR OR maybe - - just maybe rebounding other guys misses when we could actually get a shot up WITHOUT turning the ball over

BigBad said:

jayballer73 said:

DanR said:

Not trying to pile on Dave, but just thinking back to some wasted possessions in the last 3 minutes... illegal screen, stupid bounce pass to Doke. Clanked followup on Garret's miss. Love the dude, but not the guy I want involved in clutch time compared to pretty much anyone else on the team.

Career High and team leading 13 rebounds

And? If Self goes back to the 2 big lineup this team WILL NOT reach its potential. This isn't 2010. Our Big's will get exposed on d all season.

if you notice and or Heard Self he said that he thought Dave did a pretty decent job in the open floor. - - having 2 Big's - WAS NOT the reason we lost this game - - - believe that - -when the other team gets up 14 more shots then you because of your turnovers - -When your main Big man only get 4 shot attempts for the ENTIRE game and you lose by two - -IS NOT because of having two Big's on the floor -that's a pretty good AND?

jayballer73 said:

BigBad said:

jayballer73 said:

DanR said:

Not trying to pile on Dave, but just thinking back to some wasted possessions in the last 3 minutes... illegal screen, stupid bounce pass to Doke. Clanked followup on Garret's miss. Love the dude, but not the guy I want involved in clutch time compared to pretty much anyone else on the team.

Career High and team leading 13 rebounds

And? If Self goes back to the 2 big lineup this team WILL NOT reach its potential. This isn't 2010. Our Big's will get exposed on d all season.

if you notice and or Heard Self he said that he thought Dave did a pretty decent job in the open floor. - - having 2 Big's - WAS NOT the reason we lost this game - - - believe that - -when the other team gets up 14 more shots then you because of your turnovers - -When your main Big man only get 4 shot attempts for the ENTIRE game and you lose by two - -IS NOT because of having two Big's on the floor -that's a pretty good AND?

100% YES ABSOLUTELY

Idk a starting line-up with three guys that can't shoot sure doesn't help. That said we did see that bully ball can work, gotta clean up the TOs.

@BShark which 3, I got 4

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@BShark which 3, I got 4

Not giving up on Dot yet.

And we didn’t even have our best shooter.

I cooled down after a shower, I got a little heated there sorry folks. Just disappointed in the last few days here. Lost a game we thought would be a good one Saturday, then complete blow this game with turnovers. Rough week for the hawks.

kjayhawks said:

I cooled down after a shower, I got a little heated there sorry folks. Just disappointed in the last few days here. Lost a game we thought would be a good one Saturday, then complete blow this game with turnovers. Rough week for the hawks.

Saturday is on you a bit I think, though you are not alone, many got tricked. I expected KSU to roll as this is far from my first rodeo.

I'm not seeing the big improvement of Dave. You guys?

@BShark I wouldn’t say I was bold enough to predict victory, just wanted a game in a packed house. I never saw 28 turnovers coming tonight tho. Not with with Dook have freshman. It like the roles were flipped tonight. We played like freshman especially in transition.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

I'm not seeing the big improvement of Dave. You guys?

One game and he barely played last year. I think he will be fine but we have too many 5s. I think both him and Doke would do better as the lone true post player.

@Crimsonorblue22 I thought he was okay, had a couple bad turnovers on a night that everyone wearing blue did as well. I love how strong he is on the glass. He needs to stop shooting jumpers if he can’t hit them tho, his shot reminds me of Cole Aldrich behind the head ugliness.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

I'm not seeing the big improvement of Dave. You guys?

Oh I see it. Can’t teach his motor. He’s just a bit late on a lot of plays now where even thinking of making the pass wouldn’t cross his mind a year ago.

@FarmerJayhawk What do you make of the Silvio situation? Seems like Bill is pissed at him.

@BShark he even stated that, not pissed but you know

BShark said:

@FarmerJayhawk What do you make of the Silvio situation? Seems like Bill is pissed at him.

Honestly I think Silvio is playing like a true freshman. He made some super effort plays but wasn’t that sound. 4 boards in 7 minutes is awesome. Good FT shooter. But missed some bunnies (0-3 shooting) and just never got in rhythm. Needs reps between Friday and legit games in Maui.

Silvio just doesn’t add anything that Doke and Dave don’t already do. Everyone kept talking about how he was developing this mid range jumper but we didn’t see it. He couldn’t finish around the rim and doesn’t hustle as much as Dave. Right now he is clearly #3 in that rotation if we go to 4 guards. I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if he only plays 10-15 MPG at this point.

The last dook hero gets it 🐦 View Tweet?s=21

Bill, “I think we made easy plays difficult.” Exactly. Not like we played out of our skulls and lost. We threw our D game and lost by 2. Probably played a B+ game on defense and a F——- on offense. We raise the offense to a D and we win by 10.

FarmerJayhawk said:

And we didn’t even have our best shooter.

Yeah where was Moss?

@chriz hamstring pull. Self said he's only practiced one day since he started here.

I don't think a 2-point loss to a good Duke team is going to ruin the season. We have a lot of things we can work on and a lot of things we can get better at. I believe we can get to April if we can avoid turning the ball over 28 times in a game.

On to the next game. Let's learn from this and keep getting better.

A lot of time over the next three games to get healthy, correct some stuff and try to figure out rotations.

Lol Illinois most to Nicholls at home. CC: Adam Miller

The bread and butter of 2 bigs and selfs high low was predicated in having a 4 that could at least shoot to 15 feet. None of the 3 bigs can do that. The reason doke didn’t get many shots is because there wasn’t room. Nobody respects our 4s range and if Garrett is in with them forget it. This team need to go 4 and 1 and rotate the 3 bigs. I guarantee we evolve that way.

How I miss the clutch guys... Devonte Graham, Frank Mason III, Cole Aldrich, Jeff Withey and Thomas Robinson.

I don't know whether to view tonight's game as glass half full (27 turnovers and only lost by 2) or glass half empty (27 turnovers represents our skill level)

@bskeet We turned it over 28 times and only lost by 2 to a pretty good team. I'm going with glass half full. Turnovers can be corrected.

I feel like we had 6 or 7 turnovers in transition. A could of times Ochai had an easy layup or dunk that he passed away.

kjayhawks said:

I feel like we had 6 or 7 turnovers in transition. A could of times Ochai had an easy layup or dunk that he passed away.

Ochai is a bad passer and Dotson low key isn't too great at it.

This team has to go with the 4 best shooters and Doke period. Aside from Dotson leading like Frank or Devonte, how fast Enaruna can gain Self's trust may be the most important element to this team.

@KirkIsMyHinrich "turnovers can be corrected"

I hope you're right. The turnovers I saw last night were stupid and I've always heard you can't fix stupid.

@nuleafjhawk that’s the trouble with yes Dooks pressure was good but so many of them were grade school type of plays.

We were out-coached in this one. We didn't come prepared, and we have enough experienced players that we should have been better prepared.

We should have had more plays to work from so the game would have been better scripted to beat a defense that was allowed to completely overplay the passing lanes and double down on Doke.

For example, if we are going to count on some form of a hi-lo then we need to isolate Doke. Make it much harder for him to get doubled. Heck, Duke was doing that to us and they almost fouled out Doke.

We all know both David and Silvio are weak on perimeter defense. They can compensate by playing out tighter to use ball denial. And if they play out tight, if their man drives past them he will have to face Doke in the paint.

Funny that we played a game where our guys played tentative, trying not to make a mistake, and that style actually pushed them into more mistakes. The way to beat aggressive defense is to attack it. So we would drive the ball and blow by defenders then immediately stop and pick up the ball and then get pinched. That made no sense at all. Our guards need to finish at the rim after they blow by. Marcus was the only one that understood that.

Except for a few minutes in the second half, Duke controlled this game and deserved to win.

This isn't a team that will do well playing free style. This team will need to run more off a script. The good news is that we have the personnel to be very effective off a script.

The loss may help us more than if we scored 4 more points and won a nail-biter. Keep building chip!

@drgnslayr I'm not a basketball guru - just a fan, but I've always felt like we're a better team without Doke in the lineup. His turnovers and lack of FT shooting ability really hamstring us. I have nothing against him, he seems like a super nice kid, I just think he's a terrible basketball player. Every time he matches up against another 7 footer (or close) he gets embarrassed.

A few very negative things that I saw last night.

Dotson was timid being defended against Jones. Jones really seemed to rattle his ability to run the offense the way we know Dotson can. If I was a scout seeing that game I would be deeply concerned about Devon leaving after the year. Of course there will be 30+ more games for him to prove otherwise but the man that's supposed to lead the troops was taken out of his comfort. He may not be 100% as well but he's going to have to do a better job leading this group against the better teams. This was more or less the opposite of how he played last year in the Champions Classic.

The turnovers were atrocious. To even lose in single digits after an almost school record amount is quite remarkable. I think that shows how average Duke is right now more then anything that they couldn't pull away after getting 28 empty possessions from KU. I get the stage was bright but we saw a lot of careless mistakes. Up 9 in the early to middle stages of the 2nd half with all the momentum and Duke gets a pair of 3 pointers and then 3 consecutive inexplicable turnovers ruin it all. That was the turning point of the game momentum wise. KU could have blown it open. It was game 1 but to me this was biggest negative we could see all season long. The lack of chemistry and value of the ball was on full display.

What to do with Doke? He had no clue what to do with double teams or the awareness on how to make the defense pay. As much value as he's provided at times in his career and the numbers clearly back that up, last night was a major step back for him. Rusty? I don't know he definitely wasn't aggressive fighting the double teams and at his size he gave all the advantage to Duke.

Moss's absence. According to Synergy Moss was in the 99th percentile for spot up shooting. He has to get healthy and give this team a deep threat. Ochai cannot do it alone. Might be the entire key to opening up what was one of the worst offensive performances I've ever seen. Just having a shooter on the floor would limit how many double teams Doke sees and the way defenses can stop this offense from punishing them.

One major positive, the defense was solid last night. We can put out big lineups that force easy shots to become difficult. I thought KU had a good defensive gameplan besides some lapses on Carey and Hurt from the perimeter. This years defense looks promising.

Duke defended a Doke high pick and roll perfectly. They doubled the ball handler and left Doke alone. They knew they he couldn't take advantage of the space that far away and that their defense could meet him far enough from the basket so he couldn't just dunk it. When this happened with Dotson it was a real effort to pass around/over the two defenders which always gave duke enough time to recover.

FarmerJayhawk said:

And we didn’t even have our best shooter.

yet another way to look at it - - Moss which from everything I've heard probably going to be our best 3 pt shooter - - no Moss - - 28 turnovers - - our main Big only 4 shot attempts -- and LOSE by only 2 - -not THAT concerned. - -for sure need work to do taking a lot beter control of ball - -but I mean 1st game of the year.

look at it this way - -they talking about how deep we are and all that jibber jabber & it's true BUT -no matter how you want to twist - - turn & kick it - - Bottom line is were still a pretty young team ourself.

Dotson - -Soph - - McCormack - - Soph - - -Abaji - -Soph - - Desousa - - been inactive for year - - rusty as hell. - -Ya , Ya, I know Dotson been starting - and all that garbage - -at times not going to mean squat - -this was one of those times. - - As lousy as we played it was TWO points - -1st game.

It just stuns me how all the Coach cushion Beer drinking Pretzel eating arm chair Coach's pop up - - talking smack - -all what the F- - - is Self doing? - - Time for Coaching Change - -Self should of done this -- Self should of done that -- Self - - Self - - Self. - -I know we got a 1001 Arm Chair Coachs that are un-defeated and always have that PERFECT play call - -bout makes me sick.

I've always said to these people , but don't think any have ever taken me up on it YET. - -if your that great of Coach - - you got the answers - - plays situtions - -for every circumstance - - every game ? - -The solution is quite simple - -how bout you just trot your your happy little fat as right on down to the athletic dept Beer in one hand - - hoagie in the other , and a bag of pretzels stripped to your belt and put in your resume - tell them your ready to take over help out - - HELL we won't ever have anything to worry about - - just have them Fed-E us the NCAA trophy for the res of our lives - -we got THE COACH.

it's stone funny really- -I mean holy fricken crap -some people think things are the end of KU basketball because we lost a game. - -let's see- -how did that Kentucky/Michigan State game turn out? - -wonder what those fans are thinking? - -Wonder where the arm chair Coach's hide when we rip off 10-11-12 wins in a row - -where they are at when we won 14 straight conference championships? - - wonder if these Coach's do realize that Calipari hasn't won any more titles then KU has in the same length of time? - thingsthat make a guy go hmmmmm. - -Ok I'm done -- have a great day lmao. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

Hey doke was 2 for 3 from the line. Spacing for Doke is huge. Having 4 guards that you have to respect from 3 creates that spacing.

FarmerJayhawk said:

Crimsonorblue22 said:

I'm not seeing the big improvement of Dave. You guys?

Oh I see it. Can’t teach his motor. He’s just a bit late on a lot of plays now where even thinking of making the pass wouldn’t cross his mind a year ago.

Love how he attacks the glass. - -A lot of times his motor goes faster then the rest of his body. - - he is going to be fine. - -by his JR & SR years we gonna have us a stud for sure - -the kid is just scratching his potential

@kjayhawks

We don't have 4 guards to make that happen unless the freshman grow up fast

BeddieKU23 said:

@kjayhawks

We don't have 4 guards to make that happen unless the freshman grow up fast

I don’t disagree we have at best 3/4 respectable shooting guards but, last night we didn’t get to see Garrett’s new form from 3. If there is such a thing that is.

Belatedly chiming in - was at the Garden last night for the games. Great atmosphere. Strong KU contingent, but Duke crowd seemed a bit larger, or louder. I bought ticket late and was primarily in with MSU fans - who were all rooting for KU (or againt Duke). Was also next to Milwaukee Bucks scout who had some interesting observations. Assume it came through on TV, but what was so apparent in person is that Doke, Dave and Silvio were all, as HSBC likes to say, "sped up." Bad footwork and poor (often slow) decision-making. And, because we had virtually no threat on the perimeter, it allowed Duke to throw multiple bodies at them. Really, no Jayhawk played well - Garrett was solid and Enaruna looked (surprisingly) comfortable, but that's about it. Having said that, playing as badly as they did (at least on the offensive end) and still be in a position to win with half a minute to go is a positive. One troubling "trend" is that Self, as he usually does, really shortened the bench in the second half, while Duke was substituting fairly liberally (4 subs with 10+ minutes). Our 3 perimeter guys all played 36-38 minutes. That's not sustainable over the course of the year. Maybe it was just that he really wanted to win this game...

🐦 View Tweet?s=20

Most people are a lot more optimistic after last night than I am. That is not a good Duke team. I do not care what their ranking is they have no depth, and not a ton of high end talent. Jones is a fine PG who can not shoot, Hurt is going to be a great college BB player, and Stanley showed some flashes. Carey was a huge disappointment and looks very unathletic and not very skilled. ( a lot like Doke)

Seems like everyone thinks Moss is magically going to come in and be a dead eye shooter and solve a lot of problems. I am going to have to see that before I believe it. He is our best outside shooter but that isn't really saying much.

Dotson and Ochai still can not shoot from the outside. Ochai missed two wide open looks from the corner. He sure as hell does not know how to run a fast break as he turned it over twice and another time slowed down to toss it to Dotson for a 3 when he had a wide open guy for a dunk. Of course Dotson missed the open 3.

Then there is the problem with the bigs. None of the three can make anything outside of 5 feet. So when Self plays them together the floor shrinks so much that it takes away the advantage that Doke has. Self is stubborn so there is no reason to think he is going to go away from playing big. I am actually very surprised the RD Mitch, because he at least is a threat to hit some outside shots and is a poor man stretch 4.

Tristan was great in the first half but awful in the second and had some awful turnovers. Wilson and Braun were just bad in the limited minutes they saw.

@Woodrow I think there are many people very down on the team. I would agree Duke isn't very good. There are problems sure but but it's still just one game. I want to see how Self and the team respond. They need time playing together and Self could change things up. If this team still looks like this in February then we have a problem.

@Woodrow said: "Carey was a huge disappointment and looks very unathletic and not very skilled. ( a lot like Doke)"

I personally felt like Carey looked like Wilt compared to Doke. Of course, most games I would look like Wilt compared to Doke.

@Woodrow

I agree with a lot of this post.

Moss by all means graded out last year as an elite spot up shooter. Think Svi his senior year. I think that if he can get healthy and get on the court that will make a difference. How much of a difference we have no clue yet. Self thinks it will be impactful.

A lot of mistakes last night. The bigs were sped up. Dotson didn't look 100% or was rattled by the stage and the pressure Jones was giving all night. So many careless turnovers. It's either just a blip or part of the identity of this team. Time will tell

Scouts seemed to be impressed with Agbaji last night. He's definitely not flying under the radar..

BeddieKU23 said:

Scouts seemed to be impressed with Agbaji last night. He's definitely not flying under the radar..

He was really hot and cold.

I think this team can still be very good but it's not going to necessarily be fun to watch. Many wins can be had off of defense and rebounding. Cutting the turnovers down is massive. At least bricking a bunch gives a chance for rebounds.

@BShark

Yeah he flashed and disappeared at times. If he makes those corner 3's or makes the right decisions in transition a few times I wonder how different the narrative would be today. I thought he defended well, had some good rebounds and flashed his athletic ability. I think he's capable of more and hopefully he'll get there

@nuleafjhawk You can, though. You can decrease your stupid by reading books and stuff. At least that's what I heard; I don't read.

nuleafjhawk said:

@KirkIsMyHinrich "turnovers can be corrected"

I hope you're right. The turnovers I saw last night were stupid and I've always heard you can't fix stupid.

You can, though. You can decrease your stupid by reading books and stuff. At least that’s what I heard; I don’t read.

@KirkIsMyHinrich You know, we all are not enthused about their play last night. You don't have to be so hateful.

Lighten up, Francis

I agree with @drgnslayr that this team had no script or couldn't follow the script for dealing with pressure last night. They had one back door cut play they used 2 times to punish Duke for the overplays. Hard to say with so many turnovers if players didn't know where to be, made bad decisions, or didn't even have a plan. I do think this reinforces a lot of what Self likes to say about "cutting of the head" and why good defense on a point guard can be so important. Tre Jones cut of the head last night. His pressure up top set the tone for KU's offense. The only release valve for that pressure were the two back door cuts and then letting Garrett run the point. If Garrett is going to be the second ball handler on this team he has to drive to distribute better. He's improved with the ability to go left a little more this year, but once he starts driving there's no doubt he's going to try to take it all the way himself.

I've been trying to figure this out in my head all day - given the fact that we had 28 turnovers and we can't change that - would we be happier if we had, say 8 turnovers and lost by two points?

@nuleafjhawk I don't think so. We played like crap and barely lost to a pretty good team. We can see the potential. The outcome of the first game of the season really doesn't mean much.

Just think last year at this time we thought Grimes was a stud.

@benshawks08 Good insight. HCBS basically went with his starting 5 last night. Those 5 can be very strong defensively - control the boards and apply pressure - albeit with one glaring vulnerability - to a stretch 4 - as was demonstrated. It's on the offensive end that those 5 will likely struggle to score, at least against other athletic and disciplined teams.
The box score shows that we were 4-9 from behind the arc, although the shot chart shows 11 shots taken. Put aside Dotson's meaningless end of game banked 3, and we hit just 3 shots from behind the arc. Not sure but I believe they were all in the first half (was 1 of Ochai's in the second stanza?). But more remarkably, we did not make a single shot beyond those outside the paint all game. We had virtually no outside presence.
And, as you note, none of our perimeter guys are particularly good dishing the ball. While they drove the ball to the rim reasonably effectively (although not always finishing strongly), I don't recall a single instance of driving and dishing for an easy bucket. Our PG had 1 assist for the game! Basically, it's go downhill and hope for a put back if the shot is missed on the drive. That's not an offense.
None of Doke, Dave or Silvio are skilled enough or have good enough footwork to deal with quick double teams. But the only way to avoid that happening is to make teams pay by making outside shots - which isn't going to happen that often if Dotson, Garrett and Ochai are all getting 36-40 minutes a game.
The sky isn't falling - despite 28 turnovers and generally poor decision-making, we had a chance to win an ugly game, which is what HCBS likes to do. But, if we continue to go with 2 bigs and those 3 on the perimeter a substantial majority of the time, there are likely to be a lot of ugly games ahead....

Why do people think it's impossible for us to clean up the turnovers? Isn't that the natural progression of a team as they get more experience playing in a system together with their teammates? I think so.

I'd say all turnovers have some degree of carelessness, which is in part caused by an uncertainty of what to do in a particular situation or what a teammate will do in a particular situation. That uncertainty decreases as players get more comfortable in their roles and with their teammates. They understand their teammates' behavior and body language, and are better able to predict what they are going to do.

They also can learn how to do things better (like feed and pass out of the post) and things that they shouldn't do (leave your feet to throw a pass), and that helps too.

So, ya, I think we can clean it up a little.

@KirkIsMyHinrich we looked pretty good getting that 9 pt lead! Then they hit 2 3's, and we had several to's on fast break. To many unselfish passes. Och and DDot. Missing Doke when he's wide open. Tristan needs to go on in, and he'll get better. But D Dot has me scratching my head, he's had great defenders on him before. Changing his mind after he goes in w/no options. Those fast break passes will get better. Marcus did a good job on hurt. Their big was 2-2 on 3's.

@Crimsonorblue22 I agree with Enaruna getting time. He has so much upside and just needs experience.

With Dotson, I don't think it was just Tre Jones or Duke's defense that gave him problems. Our offense wasn't great. Our post-passing sucked, our big-men can't shoot, and probably the biggest thing was that we started three guys last night who didn't attempt a 3-pointer. The lack of perimeter options and lack of spacing forced Dotson into some tough plays. He could have played better but I don't think it was entirely Dotson's fault.

I aint blaming the refs but just doing a little what if.

What if the end of the first half was reviewable? ESPN sure didn't want to give us the replay and damage Dukes sterling reputation, but I sure wish we'd have had at least a chance to score 2 at the end of the half.

I mentioned this on the game thread. I confirmed this sequence with my DVR. KU FT good. Duke guy grabs the ball out of bounds and throws it in bounds to a guy who does their inbounds passes. The guy who got the pass goes out of bounds to then complete a 2nd inbounds play. Total violation. Total botched call by an official who is supposed to be watching for such things. KU had no back court pressure might be the stripes reason for not watching it. A little while earlier something similar may have happened, I do remember thinking, wait, what was that? It may have even been us doing it? But it sure as heck went uncalled. Just for the record, Duke went down the floor and turned it over to us, so this is somewhat of a moot point, but it might have been a big missed call.

Garrett got called for a phantom trip where O'Connell fell over his leg. @wissox

How many travels did KU have in the first half that weren't called the same way on Duke. Jones walked a few times to long island

Neither team looked very good last night. I will say that KU would've won fairly easily without that level of turnovers. Offensively, KU looked pretty much like I thought they would with two bigs out there. Defensively, I thought KU looked good. If you tell me before the game, KU would hold Duke under 70, I'll take that every time.

None of the teams last night looked very good so I wish ESPN would go back to having this event the second week of the season so everyone could get a game or two in to improve the quality of the games. Last night was two ugly games that definitely looked like the first game of the season for all 4 teams.

KU should’ve won by 20. They gave it away. I’m not scared of Duke in the tourney.

@BeddieKU23 I agree. I usually don't like to whine about officiating, but I saw several walks that weren't called.

@nuleafjhawk

I don't think I would generalize and say we play better with Doke off the floor.

I think, for a large degree, we play as well as Doke plays. If he's playing good, we are playing good. If not...

Doke really lacked composure. Of all his weaknesses, this has always been his biggest issue. He gets way too emotional in games when he needs to bear down and focus.

The key for all teams playing us is to disrupt Doke. Double-team or whatever, but get him playing with too much emotion and you have taken him out of his game. Draw a few fouls on him. Make him do things he doesn't want to do. Put him on the line. I'm thinking Doke missing FTs hurts us worse by getting him upset more than losing a couple of points, though he made a couple of FTs in this game.

@Hawk8086

Come on, man... we played DUKE! There will always be "Duke calls." Yeah... I counted at least 7 Duke calls. Enough to decide the outcome.

If we stay healthy I feel even better about this team after that horrible performance. Bilas kept saying it... "Kansas is sticking around in this one with all these turnovers!"

We should carry a pretty big margin of error all year... meaning... we can play mediocre and beat most teams, even ranked teams. I know that doesn't sound positive, but really... in March.. you can count on us playing a bad game here and there and when we don't have margin, we go home. This team should win most or all of those games!

@Hawk8086

Overall it was an average to below average called game which is completely normal. Just pointing out the whistle wasn't flowing both ways on the same calls. But the refs had minimal impact on the outcome which is what we like to see

PER's after game 1 are not good. Ochai at 15.6 led the team. Dotson, Azubuike, Silvio, Dave all well below their average. Garrett is the same player so far he was last year. Enaruna graded out the highest of the freshman, also played the most minutes which matters. Had some flashes but his 2nd half was freshman like. I really hope Self keeps drilling minutes into him. Coming off that screen when the defender dipped below him and nailing the 3 was a pleasant surprise. His length should be considered at the 4 spot depending on the opponent

@BeddieKU23 Yeah I'm not too surprised. Going to be ugly after a game like that.

BeddieKU23 said:

Enaruna should become a big time player for us, hopefully we will see some of that this year. It's about keeping him aggressive because he has the skill set. I think we will see a much improved player after the new year.

And we can use him in spot detail at the 4 if we can't get our bigs to guard the perimeter but he really doesn't have the strength. This is a better assignment a year or two from now after he puts on some muscle.

I'm going to be shocked if Silvio and David can't learn to guard the perimeter. It's easy peasy. Just get out there and stick a hand in their face and go straight up. Don't get caught having to make up space as they are going up or you are going to foul. If they drive the ball get out of the way and let someone close on him, preferably Doke. What we want to see is 4's driving to the lane. This is where we teach some guys how to take a charge. Just watch how Tre Jones did it. He's been very well coached on it. You stick your face into the ball handler. Face/head are completely off limits for contact and even though you may be out of position and coming in late, any time a defender gets clocked the foul goes on the ball handler. None of our guys knows this or practices this. This is where coaching comes in.

And then there is the high ball screen. Come on. We were taught to defend that in junior high. There are two good clips on KUSports showing how we got beat on the perimeter. One on a ball screen, the other where Hurt faked the drive on David and he immediately went backwards, like he had to stop the drive. Really poorly played on both plays. Shouldn't be like that in D1. Players should know better already. Actually, it was Dotson who screwed up on the ball screen by going over the top and then continued to fail by following the ball handler, leaving Hurt wide open.

@drgnslayr I realize I wear my heart on my sleeve and I tend to get mouthy after (any) loss, but I really have never liked him as a basketball player. I feel that his inconsistency on the court rattles/drains the whole team. His one claim to fame is his field goal percentage (well, the other claim to the opposite fame is his free throw percentage), but who gives a crap if he dunks the ball 5 times a game and makes 3 of 9 free throws? Give me a more athletic big man who can shoot from 10-15 feet and make 65% or more free throws. Someone who can make and catch a pass.

Just my opinion.

@nuleafjhawk

I think last year sums it up. Weren't we undefeated until he went down? Granted, we had some powder puff games in there... but.

I'm sure you and I could sit down and write out a long list of Doke's faults and we would totally agree. But what we can't take away from him is his presence. He has a big presence and he makes other teams adjust their game. That is huge.

This game wasn't exactly any kind of barometer for the season because it was our first real game. I can't believe they push this series up to being first. Back when they were a bit later so teams played a few real games first really made a big difference in the quality of the games. By making it the first game of the season they sort of make a mockery out of the top 4 teams who play.

@drgnslayr True. I'll bet the Michigan State fan boards look pretty similar to ours right now.

@drgnslayr Doke does seem to play better when he is the only Big on the floor. Without the threat of outside shooting (which hopefully will improve when Moss can play) and two big guys that can't step outside and hit a shot (and/ or pass well) this will likely continue. We need to obviously improve in those areas for Doke/ Dave or Doke/ Silvio to play well together.

Hawk8086 said:

@drgnslayr Doke does seem to play better when he is the only Big on the floor. Without the threat of outside shooting (which hopefully will improve when Moss can play) and two big guys that can't step outside and hit a shot (and/ or pass well) this will likely continue. We need to obviously improve in those areas for Doke/ Dave or Doke/ Silvio to play well together.

The 4 out definitely maximizes the effect of Udoka.

@drgnslayr

I think we'll continue to see flashes from him this season but its all dependent on the minutes. Offensively I see value in trying him at the 4 spot as he shown the ability to get into the lane where he could be a mismatch against 4's and has shown at least something of a perimeter jumper that may pull a defender out on him as well. Now if he is only an average shooter from deep (which has kind of been the label on him coming in) then 2 bigs may be the better option but I see the value in trying him there at some point. Defensively your right he isn't strong enough to defend a traditional 4 man with strength and size but he is 6'8 with a 7 foot wingpan and had two blocks in the opener so I think its dependent on matchup. If we see a bunch of Matthew Hurt's playing the 4 all year why not? Or if Self ever decided on some zone defense I can see them masking him at the 4 in that scheme too. Just thoughts. He had some good moments on a big stage and I think we need to see what else he can do. I can't imagine Self was thrilled what he got out of his big man lineup and Tristan definitely looks like has some position versatility that could be used if needed

@BeddieKU23

Gosh, imagine if we had a 4 who could bomb the trey? Sure would help out Doke!

I think we can build plenty of offense and have a chunk of it work through Doke, even if we play two bigs. Simple.... use Silvio and David to set screens for our guards. Then have them cut to the basket and crash the offensive glass! Just being effective at that suddenly makes our big 4s a real plus instead of how they are used now, just clogging up space. We should never stick one of our big 4s on the perimeter unless he is setting screens because that allows our opponent to play us 5 on 4 since neither of our bigs is a threat from the outside.

This really isn't rocket science and I get frustrated watching our guys play like this is complicated. Teach them the basics... that's all we need. But this gets to my one big complaint; development. Focus coaching a bit more on coaching and perhaps less on recruiting. It's frustrating to watch all the talent we get playing out there without being coached up enough. I'd rather watch a little less personal talent who is coached more.

drgnslayr said:

@BeddieKU23

Gosh, imagine if we had a 4 who could bomb the trey? Sure would help out Doke!

I think we can build plenty of offense and have a chunk of it work through Doke, even if we play two bigs. Simple.... use Silvio and David to set screens for our guards. Then have them cut to the basket and crash the offensive glass! Just being effective at that suddenly makes our big 4s a real plus instead of how they are used now, just clogging up space. We should never stick one of our big 4s on the perimeter unless he is setting screens because that allows our opponent to play us 5 on 4 since neither of our bigs is a threat from the outside.

This really isn't rocket science and I get frustrated watching our guys play like this is complicated. Teach them the basics... that's all we need. But this gets to my one big complaint; development. Focus coaching a bit more on coaching and perhaps less on recruiting. It's frustrating to watch all the talent we get playing out there without being coached up enough. I'd rather watch a little less personal talent who is coached more.

There was one play in the first half where Dave crashed the lane after a double team and got 3 point play I believe. We have 3 bigs that can't pass the ball effectively at least from what we saw in Game 1. Actually this looked like a below average passing team if Duke is the barometer. Duke had a good game plan defensively, reminded me of the Nova game we obsessed about in the F4 years back. I don't think anyone really handled the pressure that well. At least now they have film and experience to practice against this because other teams are going to see how that blueprint worked against us. I'm concerned our poor passing from the bigs and the team in general is not just because Duke game-planned well. We'll see how the troops rally starting tomm

@BeddieKU23 all of our bigs will learn how to pass out or the double or we will go to the 4 -1. We have clearly practiced it enough to try the entry pass from the bigs but not enough yet to be good at it. Give it time.

@BeddieKU23

Nice reference to Nova. That should help you and others (and me) with perspective.

I think we can safely say that very few of our teams ever could really handle big defensive pressure.

In a perfect world where teams are coached up to some degree these teams prefer to be hit with pressure because it creates an abundance of opportunities to exploit.

Here is the most-basic exploit. Devon had lots of trouble with Tre's defense including when he got nailed for an offensive foul that was almost converted to a flagrant. Tre is well-coached and he leads with his face. Simple solution here. Devon works on drawing fouls. Devon learns how to create situations where Tre overplays him then he drives right into him to draw fouls. He could have done that at least a dozen times in this game. Do this twice in a game and usually the defender gets it and backs off or foul trouble is coming.

None of our guys know the first thing about drawing fouls nor the advantage it creates by demanding spatial respect. Gosh... this is really basic basketball. This should be covered a few times during one week of practice then the guys should be reminded in heavy pressure games to apply it. So so basic. In this game, we would have quickly ended Duke's heavy pressure. We could have done the same thing in that Nova loss.

What we don't do is counter tactics used by other teams. We will call time outs and then come back out and do the same thing. We did have a brief moment in the second half where we played more of our ball and we created our lead.

From my own experience, I was coached on things like drawing fouls and sometimes a coach would tell me to draw fouls, so I drew fouls and the games changed. It's like playing chess and countering an attack. We should have these things coached into our players so we can counter off this. Most of the readers in here remember some of my old posts on all the different fakes. Without this very basic education in basketball we will always be vulnerable to teams who can bring big time pressure.

@drgnslayr I do remember your post on fakes but would love to dig it back out... I tried to Google it but couldn't find it :-/

🐦 View Tweet?s=21

Little of subject here BUT sending out a Silver /alert lol -- missing Person - - -What has happened to KU Steve? -- he is GONE - -anybody happen to know what happened? - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

@jayballer73 No one seems to know about him, or JayhawkFanToo, for that matter, as far as I have heard.

What ever happened to Jaybate? Did he get offended and leave? I miss his artful wit.

@drgnslayr

I believe the offensive foul your talking about was Agbaji using his forearm to create separation from Jones and caught him in the face due to his defensive positioning. Jones is a + defender and neither Dotson or Garrett handled it well when defended by him. Dotson looked very timid against him, almost freshman like. I know the kid will bounce back as we know he's tough as nails but I was really surprised Dotson didn't rise to the occasion given the high profile matchup. KU could have done a better job freeing Dotson from the pressure with ball screens. A lot of things were out of sync that I think will look better tonight at home. I do think Dotson will be the guy that can draw fouls consistently especially with his elite speed. There are very few PG's in the nation that will be able to contain him when he's at full speed and gets game reps.

Not sure where Steve is. Jaybate said he was heartbroken by the adidas scnndal I thought, from what a friend of the family told us. Jayhawkfantoo had family stuff to attend to.

@BeddieKU23

Forgot about the Agbaji foul. I was thinking he drew an offensive foul on Devon, too.

Devon just needed a few plays where he changed driving direction suddenly and go right into Tre without lowering his shoulder or swinging his arms. Then "sell the call" too.

I put more blame on everyone else not reacting to the pressure. Devon didn't exactly have anyone open to pass it to while he was being pestered by Tre.

mayjay said:

@jayballer73 No one seems to know about him, or JayhawkFanToo, for that matter, as far as I have heard.

just vanished

drgnslayr said:

What ever happened to Jaybate? Did he get offended and leave? I miss his artful wit.

Dam forgot bout him - -people dropping like flies - - miss Jethro lol

@drgnslayr

I'll be surprised if Duke's team defense is as good as it was Tuesday the rest of the season. Jones is always going to be their best defender but I think KU played so poorly that it overstates their defensive stance, the 28 turnovers are such an outlier. Playing in MSG for these kids can just completely overwhelm them and I think that had a big impact on a lot of the individual performances. 30 NBA scouts were in attendance and its easy for kids to choose showing off instead of playing for the team and having poise.

Tonight's a good game to see how they bounce back from a poise and sped up standpoint. The focus should be better in front of the home crowd too.

@BeddieKU23 I think they played good defense but Devon was nervous and still hurt. Combine that with the fact that KU's offense made it easy to defend and I would tend to agree Duke isn't a defensive juggernaut.

Duke looked like they should been ranked about 15 when KU played ‘em. It was just a sorry showing by the good guys in the first game of the season. It’ll be ok, things will get cleaned up soon. No worries.

Evansville needs to foul here

Or not