Yeah not bad. What could change things and what we don't know is what positions the staff views these guys. If Silvio and Dave are viewed as 5s and KJ is mainly playing the 3 suddenly Mitch is right there as the back-up 4. I'll be interested to see how things shake out. Mitch isn't a bad player, this is just a stacked KU roster down low.
BShark
33646 posts
@kjayhawks 22 but still lol
Mitch only knows one speed...
"That's like 3 out of 10. In practice it's 10 out of 10, guys be going at it, man," Lawson said. "There was a play the other day in pickup, Sam [Cunliffe] went up for a dunk and Mitch went up with him. He fell hard. It's just how coach got us playing and the competitiveness."
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@dylans Mitch had 22 pts in scrimmage today, 6, 3's.😳. I know, just a scrimmage. From the video, he did look bigger.
Mitch def fooled around today. I'm going to try to make it to the open scrimmage tomorrow.
@jayballer73 No. The final 12 is out.
Stunning development: Grimes, JRE and Hurt all on the final roster of 12.
@justanotherfan Philly seems like a great choice.
Texas Hawk 10 said:
DoubleDD said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
@DoubleDD There's nothing wrong with the idea of Mitch redshirting. This year's front court is going to be stacked, especially if Silvio plays. That would give KU 5 legitimate bigs and that means someone is not playing many minutes.
If that person ended up being Mitch, why wouldn't you redshirt him. When would he have more value, 2018-19 as the 5th big playing primarily garbage time next season or as a 5th year senior in 2020-2021 when he could be a legitimate starter for KU playing 25-30 minutes per game.
You're focusing on the small picture of the 2018-19 season impact of a potential Mitch redshirt, take a couple of steps back and look at how a move like that impacts KU long term.
KU is likely going to be an incredibly young team in 2020-2021 and having a 5th year senior like Mitch on that team would be a huge boost for a group of very young players because he is a great leader and could be a coach on the court type player.
I'm not against redshirting. Yet I don't see how you sit Mitch? A proven commodity versus raw talent that may or may not pan out.
Who's the raw talent Mitch is playing ahead of? Dedric Lawson who won American Conference POY, KJ Lawson who averaged 12 and 8 his sophomore season at Memphis, or Silvio DeSousa who already passed Mitch on the depth chart last season?
If you're referring to David McCormack, they don't play the same position and would have no impact on Mtich's potential minutes.
Mitch is already last in the rotation at the 4 spot next year so redshirting isn't an unrealistic possibility for Mitch next season.
Almost commented on this myself. Suffice to say I agree. Dedric is very skilled.
@Crimsonorblue22 Also bshark dot com mentioned it a bit ago. :grinning: :
@BeddieKU23 Agree. I also think, and I mentioned this earlier but it bears repeating that McCormack is very likely to start at C his SO year. You don't want him going into that relatively cold when he can be afforded 7-10 minutes a game pretty easily.
I mean to be fair I said I don't think he redshirts DD. Really it's just being brought up as a possibility. It takes a special kind of kid/player to want to redshirt and it's not something the staff would try to force.
But to answer your questions, not counting RS years for transfer players like Withey, Lawsons etc or guys like Tyler Self/C Garrett who just took a RS year for another year around the program.
5
4 (BMac left after one year)
1 (Lucas, who RS his first year, obviously it worked out for him)
The list is Brady, Releford, Jamari, Lucas, BMac. BMac obviously wouldn't have RS if not for his academic issues. A cool walk-on RS case was Conner Teahan, who ended up being a rotation player in his 5th year.
@DoubleDD It only matters if he is better than the other players at his position next season. By the end of last season Silvio had surpassed him. Speaking only of guys that can also play the 4, both Lawsons will also be ahead of him.
It is sounding more and more like KJ will find minutes wherever needed, probably mostly at the 3 but 3 or 4 really.
All this said, I do not think Mitch redshirts. The staff really leaves this up to the players. They will let Mitch know his pt prospects as the season approaches and it will be on Mitch to determine if he wants to play a little bit or RS to try and play more down the road.
@jaybate-1.0 This all started well before the FBI stuff came to light.
@HighEliteMajor I certainly don't want to see Mitch playing even close to 15 minutes a game next season.
Dedric 25-30
Doke 25
Silvio 20
Then divide the possible 10 remaining minutes based on match-ups and readiness between Dave and Mitch. It still wouldn't be the craziest idea for Mitch to RS though I don't think he will. I favor Dave getting minutes when possible because he's probably going to be the starting center his 2nd year.
Apparently at this recent camp KJ was working w/ guards and bigs at times.
McCormack has really slimmed down. Impressive.
@drgnslayr Now I can't really comment on this w/o getting into speculation but Vick almost wasn't on the team this last season from some things I have heard/read.
I agree wissox.
Just so there is no doubt this thread wasn't to slander him or anything just posting Self's comments because they pretty much shut the door.
Nick Schwerdt
@nick_schwerdt
2h2 hours ago
It's more likely that Udoka develops a lethal three point shot than it is that Vick returns for his senior season. That relationship is over.
Self pretty much slams the door here.
"Lagerald and I talked at the end of the season, and it was a situation where he was going to do his best to prepare himself and put himself in position to stay in the draft," Self said Saturday. "And if he didn't stay in the draft, there was certainly the option for him to transfer.
"I haven't made a final decision on the situation, but the talk we had at the end of the season would be that he would go somewhere else if he decided to stay in school. That was something we talked about; we kind of agreed on that."
Self will be away from Lawrence until mid-June while he coaches the U-18 national team. When he returns to campus, he said he will sit down with Vick and figure out what's next.
"He should look into whatever he wants to do, or look into other schools or whatnot," Self said. "But there will be a point in time when I get back that I'm sure we'll sit and down and we'll visit and talk about the situation.
"But I have not planned on having him back since the season was over."
Vick's mother told the Kansas City Star that the G League was the most likely option for her son.
:joy: :joy: :joy:
@Crimsonorblue22 :blush:
@JayHawkFanToo I think if he were making the choice then I could see all the merits to returning to KU. I don't think it is entirely his choice.
@BeddieKU23 I'm sure he has been working at it, just takes time.
justanotherfan said:
I think Vick could return. I don't think Vick does return.
Sometimes you need a different environment and a different voice to reach your full potential. I think that is the case with Vick. He has grown as much as he can grow at KU for a variety of reasons. Now, it is time for him to move on. I do think he has basketball in his future. He has a lot of talent if he can get more consistent, and he fits well in the modern NBA as a 3 and D wing when he is engaged.
I could see him getting a shot in the G League. The playoffs have proven that every team needs at least 3 wings that can handle that responsibility. Teams are going to be willing to take the risk in the G League to see if he can develop.
He needs to really work on the d part but he can definitely be an alright spot up shooter and have a pro career somewhere.
Okay so people that view critical analysis as negativity/bashing might want to avoid reading this post.
Spot on about his consistency issues B.
@JayHawkFanToo Vick's shooting could be good, but it's his shooting vs...everything else when compared to Garrett. Garrett can dribble/handle, pass and defend. Things that Vick was often averse to trying or just shouldn't bother (dribbling). I think the combination of KJ and Garrett won't shoot as well as Vick could at times, but overall will play better, consistently and be more of a net positive for the team. Hell his advanced numbers weren't all that different than Garrett last year, but thing about Vick is he could go supernova, or give you next to nothing on both ends. He also did not show much improvement from the previous season, whereas Garrett if he does improve his shot even a little bit becomes the far superior option. KJ's advanced stats on a bad Memphis team were not that great. He and Dedric had to be the guys though. If he can take to being a glue guy, move the ball and defend he will be very good for KU. KJ is also 22 now, so he will be a bit of a man playing among boys. Technically a SO, with the age of a SR.
So if he comes back there is a minute crunch. Dotson, Moore, Grimes, Garrett and KJ are all expecting to play. Self really only plays 5 guards, so Vick coming back would really throw a wrench in things, and I'm not even sure that he would be ahead of anyone. If Self had options last year, I think Vick would have found the bench more.
@wissox I like your style. ;)
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@jaybate-1.0 I saw Paul McCartney in wichita last summer w/my son. No words!
I went to see James Taylor not that long ago with my mom. One of her favorites actually.
@jaybate-1.0 I'm relatively young and I am familiar with the artists you mentioned in your last post. I got into music through my mom though so I am very familiar with the classics, as well as everything motown. Aretha Franklin, The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, The Four Tops etc... I was raised on it during car rides essentially.
That said, I've also done a lot of my own research now. Like @approxinfinity said radio is kind of dead. So to find good, relevant new music you have to dig yourself. Most people don't want to do that, they want to be presented with music (so either radio or youtube).
So it was difficult to pick ONE Hozier song even though he only has one full album.
Really I recommend listening to his entire debut album.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BShark I would add players that can be coached to that list
This is pretty big. Just looking at it from a KU angle guys like Releford, Garrett, Darnell etc...
Then the counter point of Zach Peters, Rio Adams, Naadir Tharpe, Brannen Greene, Carlton Bragg...
jaybate 1.0 said:
BShark said:
jaybate 1.0 said:
HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark @jaybate-1-0 We can win without high level three point shooting. Definitely. But one thing for everyone to remember -- Self is different now. He's accepted the three. He has seen the proverbial light. I expect it to be incorporated much more so than it had been our prior post-first teams. The fool's gold talk is dead.
We can win pre-conference and conference without it, but the odds appear very slim that we can win a ring without it, if other Top Ten teams get stocked up with 3-6 trifectates, as Nova likely will be again. And if Nova has 2 bigs again that can shoot > 39$% from three (which I have not heard forecasts of one way or the other), it just seems effectively impossible to defend our way to a ring.
Roy was very lucky to appear to be the EST team selected to win the ring the season he did, when Nova hit a snag, the other apparent pre-selects ran into difficulties with their OAD stock ups and with injuries and eligibilities, as I recall.
Didn't Roy have one of his weakest shooting rosters in his tenure at Easy Hill that year? And it faced the first real post hyper dump truck Carney field. He was very fortunate to show up with his apparent usual dump truck load of bigs, when distribution asymmetry was apparently being revised and an anomalous number of highly athletic > 39% 3 point shooters at post and perimeter were being remarkably ranked 75-100 and routed to Villanova for "development."
Its hard for moi to imagine that not one of the elite EST teams will round up at least 3 > 39% trifectates and maybe one > 39% big, after what Jay and Nova showed happens when 3 is feasibly greater than 2 on a regular basis.
And if one is from the CST and has to depend on the kindness of referees to supply the foul calls necessary for short treys? Woe, woe, woe, is thee.
So much fiction.
Truth is routinely stranger than fiction and so those invested in believing in fictions use "so much fiction" as a lame rhetorical cloud of squid ink, don't you agree?
:-)
Oh, wait, I forgot. I apologize. There is no channeling of players and big gaming wants a fair game, right? That is what you appear to be asserting. I am just saying, both things are starting to quack like ducks, so we'll have to wait and see. But I sure wouldn't want to be defending your position. I am blessed to be discussing appearances with a wait and see attitude about what the actual realities are that come out.
You, however, are stuck polishing "so much fiction." Not much wiggle room there, is there?
Good luck.
Howling!
If the outcome of sporting events are predetermined, why even watch?
Let's see if everyone starts copying Villanova. Seems more likely that most programs just take what they can get. Even Duke, ran by long time 3pt aficionado coach K had a rough trey balling team last year. I think coaches run into trouble when they just start trying to take the highest ranked players, instead of looking for players that fit their system, defend and can shoot.
I did not say players were not paid. They definitely are.
@jaybate-1.0 Instead of giving Jay Wright credit for identifying talent you work under the assumption that it is fed to him and that there is some sort of global ranking conspiracy*. The truth is he finds players that fit his system, and are willing to be around for multiple years.
*Yes yes, conspiracies are for suckers, which sounds odd coming from someone that routinely posts conspiracy theories as fact.
jaybate 1.0 said:
HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark @jaybate-1-0 We can win without high level three point shooting. Definitely. But one thing for everyone to remember -- Self is different now. He's accepted the three. He has seen the proverbial light. I expect it to be incorporated much more so than it had been our prior post-first teams. The fool's gold talk is dead.
We can win pre-conference and conference without it, but the odds appear very slim that we can win a ring without it, if other Top Ten teams get stocked up with 3-6 trifectates, as Nova likely will be again. And if Nova has 2 bigs again that can shoot > 39$% from three (which I have not heard forecasts of one way or the other), it just seems effectively impossible to defend our way to a ring.
Roy was very lucky to appear to be the EST team selected to win the ring the season he did, when Nova hit a snag, the other apparent pre-selects ran into difficulties with their OAD stock ups and with injuries and eligibilities, as I recall.
Didn't Roy have one of his weakest shooting rosters in his tenure at Easy Hill that year? And it faced the first real post hyper dump truck Carney field. He was very fortunate to show up with his apparent usual dump truck load of bigs, when distribution asymmetry was apparently being revised and an anomalous number of highly athletic > 39% 3 point shooters at post and perimeter were being remarkably ranked 75-100 and routed to Villanova for "development."
Its hard for moi to imagine that not one of the elite EST teams will round up at least 3 > 39% trifectates and maybe one > 39% big, after what Jay and Nova showed happens when 3 is feasibly greater than 2 on a regular basis.
And if one is from the CST and has to depend on the kindness of referees to supply the foul calls necessary for short treys? Woe, woe, woe, is thee.
So much fiction.
I'll get this out of the way now, the answer is technically no, due to your very specific restraints. However...they did beat teams with great three point shooting.
So, I'm not sure why the EST caveat matters. They had to beat Oregon, the beloved of Nike, who had 3 heavy minute players that were above 40% from three, and a bench player as well.
Gonzaga, who they played in the final, had 6 rotation players at or above 39%, but again west coast.
They also beat UK's NBA factory, but with only 1 40% trey baller in Monk.
Oddly enough, Villanova with a similar team between their title teams lost to Wisconsin in the second round. Go figure.
@approxinfinity Sure. I don't think either is particularly well known. I think you need a good grasp of French to appreciate the lyrics. There are some others but I used to listen to these two a lot in college.
I could listen to Keny all day.
@dylans It's definitely a song that merits some analysis.
A couple of my absolute favorite rappers rap 100% in French (I took French throughout school) but I didn't post those because even if you can find the exact lyrics in French, it's not going to translate properly and quickly.
I could keep going, there is plenty of rap with depth to it. It's a bad idea to cast off an entire type of music because of some dumb examples when you can find those in any genre.
And that is pretty much Aesop Rock's most simple song, I highly recommend him.
Official list out
https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2018/06/mu18-finalists.aspx ↗
Cuts are being made.
Bryan Antoine, Scottie Lewis, Kira Lewis, Trendon Watford all cut.
Also Vick's defense was pretty poor.
James Taylor is actually one of my favorite folk musicians. Dylan, Simon and Garfunkel, Hozier etc...
I will be stunned if he ends up back at KU. I seriously doubt it. Would also create an awkward log jam where someone in line to get minutes now wouldn't.
Lol deep state.
@jaybate-1.0 They had two okay three point shooters, just like KU will have next year. One right at 37%, the other at 38%. To go along with this they defended and had a solid 4 man post rotation.
jaybate 1.0 said:
To dream of defending our way to a ring in the 3pt era is a pleasant past time, but do not mistake the dream for reality.
It literally happened a year ago.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/north-carolina/2017.html ↗
And they played Gonzaga in the final, the #1 defensive team that year.
@Crimsonorblue22 Trae thinks he is the best player in the draft. He's not even the best guard, however.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
Vick doesn't have the mental makeup of a leader, it's not a choice. He can barely talk in interviews, it's very painful for him. Reminded me of a young Perry. That girl had a lot of problems!🤐
From someone who has dealt with it before, he appears to have anxiety and confidence issues.
@Kubie Lots of speculation that Vick was well behind academically.
@jayballer73 Tharpe, Greene, Vick.