🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@jaybate-1.0

The Graduate Transfer is likely to see some changes in the future and might become a fad. Today, its almost like Free Agency. I'm certainly all for players having the right to transfer but we are definitely seeing some alarming trends to this loophole.

You are already seeing smaller schools that are looking to restrict players from red-shirting which puts them in line to be a graduate transfer down the line. These smaller schools invest a ton of time to see their star players or players that took 2-3 years to develop leave because they can without restriction.

For now its benefiting major programs that have turnover at seasons end and is also providing kids who started off at smaller schools the opportunity to play for a school they might never have thought they would have the chance to play for.

I think in terms of recruiting, whether it be High School, Junior College, or Division-1 there is a lot of parity. KU might not have even looked at transfers 10 years ago but today if your not on the radar for transfers you might have a baren roster. Some schools can still rely on recruiting High School talent but even the elite programs have started to take transfers when they need them.

@kjayhawks

Yeah its definitely still early for Mason. I just expected better coming from him. 15 missed shots, I can't remember him ever missing that many. Fox has looked the part of the Top 5 pick they made him and Mason's goal would have been to prove he was just as good a shooter he was in College to compliment Fox's athleticism/speed/defensive ability. So far he's fallen short of expectation and you only get so many opportunities in this league to prove otherwise.

Mason has shot what 4-19 in 2 games? Not a good first impression and with the Kings having 2 other PG's its going to be hard to see him not being shipped down to the D-League if they keep him.

Sounds like Jackson had a rough 2nd game and hasn't put any criticism about his shot to rest putting up 1-9 from 3 so far. He's obviously been a factor defensively/rebounding/ and finding other ways to score.

Selden and Diallo have lit it up so far. Very promising to see from those two guys

@REHawk

I'm sure he will continue to keep an open mind with Graduate Transfers etc. Whitman for example seems like he will be an important role player this year and Tarik Black was equally important a few years ago.

Svi, I believe we lucked into when recruiting others at the Nike Hoops Summit (a similar situation was how the staff got Frank Mason). There is a lot of European talent out there, I'm sure Svi helps with our visibility to those who wish to come to the states for Education and playing.

@jayballer54

He visited Duke recently, expect every major program to be on him.

@KUSTEVE

We know the staff wants 2 guards in this class. I get the feeling we land one in the fall and hopefully another in the spring.

Under the assumption Newman isn't coming back there is that need. We all expect Newman to do well this season and its been widely known he only wants to spend a year here.

Whether its at least 1 additional point guard to go with Charlie Moore, its safe to say we are after a ball handler and 2-way guards.

If Vick has a monster year I expect he'll test the NBA waters. His athletic ability will give him a chance especially if he tests well at the Combine. If he doesn't leave I expect he could slide to the 2-guard position as a Senior and whatever guard(s) recruit we land will probably be his backup.

Dotson (primarily a PG), Grimes (can play both on/off the ball), Dosunmu- 2 way player, Carey- another 2 way player are the primary targets KU can realistically get at this point. We will know starting this weekend who the staff is really following with the most important stretch of AAU ball upcoming.

The situation down in the post is fluid.

We could see Doke and Preston leave.

Preston seems to be the most likely candidate seems how his game is a fit for the Modern NBA and if he presents enough upside even after a year I think he goes to the draft and stays. Plus Self recruited over him with Dedric and that will play a huge factor in him going. If Lightfoot continues to develop there won't be much of a need for a PF. I expect we could even see KJ play some 4 with his defensive and rebounding skills. Seems like a position we have locked down and can focus on Jeremiah Robinson Earl in 2019.

Doke, no denying he's the type of player that could be extremely valuable for KU this season. His value in the NBA has diminished considerably with how teams are going small. Doke is the throwback, power Shaq-type that can't shoot and will have to prove a lot this season. Too early to know what he's going to do and the staff will probably be hoping all the top big's in the class commit in the spring so that KU has a better chance with any of them. Right now I would say Doke returns for his junior year (even though he came to KU saying he was a 2 yr player).

There is however a need for a backup big (primarily to play the 5), especially if Doke did return as a Jr. The staff doesn't seem to be interested in any of the middle tier 4 star recruits that teams are scooping up (recently USC, Purdue, Creighton, Stanford, Villanova, Michigan St, Maryland have all locked down good post talent that KU could have easily been involved for). Off the top of the head it seems KU is all in on the premiere bigs in the Top 20 and will as usual now be in play for graduate transfers/de-commits from other schools etc in the spring.

Will be very interesting to see what players join the good guys. Potentially 1-3 starting spots up for grabs depending on roster movement

Ian Steere is off the board to Creighton. Liked his upside..

KUSTEVE said:

@wrwlumpy I think Vick starts, and Svi becomes our 6th man.

It will be interesting to see what fits best in the lineup.

Vick has the athletic ability and intangibles that extend plays (hustle rebounds) and with Graham/Newman cemented in the lineup his different element might be what is needed.

Svi obviously spreads the floor with his shooting and has shown more aggressive ability to drive in his junior year.

The deciding factor is who can be a better defender for me. Both of them left a lot to be desired on that end. If one of them can show improved defensive ability I think Self will have to start that one.

Regardless no team in the nation has the collection of wing talent that KU has

At this point KU is unlikely to snag any of the top 10 recruits. Not to say things can't change with any of these guys especially if they slow play their recruitment but to this point I don't think there is any evidence out there that points to KU being a favorite or serious threat for any of those listed in the article.

I hope we land some of our known targets and the last 3 weeks of July should really help those interested figure out where we stand with these kids

@BShark

And even more kids off the board in the last few days. Same song and dance.

9 of the top 30 off the board.

9 from 30-50

19 from 60-100.

That makes 37 of the top 100 gone already. Seems to be filling up earlier then past seasons

approxinfinity said:

@BeddieKU23 awful news. so he can play in the Summer league and get picked up on a guaranteed contract by another team right?

Not sure how that works, I assume the Kings haven't given him any guarantee this year yet?

Sucks for him. The kings signed George Hill. I really wish he ended up anywhere but Sacramento

Whole slew of top 100 kids off the board and none of them to the good guys..

Whole slew of top 100 kids off the board and none of them to the good guys..

@globaljaybird

He had a really good starting thread/discussion point. I fully agree that Self hit a home run with the cycle of players we have leaving the program between this past year and this upcoming season. Landing 3 of the most sought after transfers that were not only high school Top 100 kids but studs at the College level already adds even more to it. We don't have to use the brain too hard to understand these guys are starters waiting in the wings. Whether they help us win championships which a lot of this conversation went towards is another story/unwritten conclusion at this point. I know one thing, they certainly give us a foundation for 2018/19 that Self can work with.

And its clear after 2 + months of no KU games that we are already starving for games. The off-season discussions always veer off the wagon and have no balance because there are no games to fill in the gaps.

BShark said:

http://kentucky.247sports.com/Article/Kentucky-Wildcats-hosting-top-50-junior-Marcedus-Leech-for-unoff-53378575 ↗

He hold early offers from Kansas, Iowa State, Miami, Missouri, Vanderbilt and Washington among others, but told D1Vision that Kentucky is his dream school.

Just another kid KU was supposedly the early favourite for that will end up at UK, Duke or AZ.

It's not like we have heard anything about KU's involvement in almost a year with him. The staff might be after others but I wouldn't agree with that decision. Leech is worth attention

@Kcmatt7

No I don't think he's doing sub-par to the rest of the staff. He's gotten a lot of criticism since he's been here, part of that falls on his arrest and poor judgement. I've held nothing against him in that regard and see no reason to. I had forgot he has run point on some other guys we currently have or will have in the future as well. I think he's starting to get settled in and connect with recruits and with him being younger then the rest of the staff he has an advantage.

I was just making my opinion that if Miller doesn't come to KU (given he's already a top 25 2020 kid) with the connection he has with Howard then we'll have to discuss that when it comes up.

Doesn't look good but we'll see what happens. Will the NCAA even take notice with all that they have going on.. How valid is this brother's story going to be. It seems hard to take 100% for granted with the way this is being brought to the public.

We all thought Preston would have issues and from everything we know he'll be playing next year. Oak Hill really must be magic.

BShark said:

The plan is definitely that Newman goes pro after this year. He might be the best guard (in terms of talent) Self has had at KU so yeah. Obviously Graham is gone. This situation should make recruiting easier. You still never know though, Trae Young was offered the keys and turned em down. Even not counting Smart, Quickley or Quinerly (good idea imo) that's a lot of really good guards KU is in on. Self just has to bat .333.

Yeah Howard's job should depend on whether he lands this kid (with the expectation that he keeps improving and KU continues to prioritize him. It sounds harsh but at some point your assistants have to prove themselves when you have the upper hand in a recruitment. Him being a key player for Newman was a positive step IMO for him. There is literally not an acceptable excuse out there if he doesn't land Miller with the connection he shares with the mother.

We'll see what happens with Grimes. At least we know an official visit is a certainty.

Swider is definitely getting the Duke bump. Not that he hasn't improved, he's been the leading scorer so far on his AAU squad that has caught a lot of attention.

Did you see the Bamba possible eligibility issues? I haven't dug deep into it but some messy stuff possibly happening..

Encouraging news about Miller even if he's a long ways away from picking or going to College. Never hurts to be in already for a 2020 kid with ties to the program.

Looking like Quinerly to Arizona. Jeez they are unstoppable right now.

Bagley to visit Duke this summer.. no other visits planned at this point.

Grimes latest interview makes it seem like he will be dragging out his recruitment.. Will KU wait on him and get burned again? Seems like the next in line to do so.

Some more 18 prospects off the board. Smith- a high upside top 40 guy to Maryland. USC picked up a Top-100 big. Neither were on KU's radar.

Ayo eliminated Northwestern from consideration after visiting.. No KU visit planned as of yet and frankly I'm not sure what they are waiting on to get him here.

Looks like Duke will be on the board soon with Cole Swider, a rising PF who I'm sure the recruiting sites will overvalue because he signs with Duke.

Matt keeps saying KU sits in a good spot for Langford, which I don't believe. We hear "we're in a good spot all to often" line

dylans said:

Lavar Ball was even too much for fake wrestling. They cut away early and had to issue an apology for his use of racial slang.

His youngest son I believe was the one using the slang.

@mayjay

True, the jury is out on draft picks. I have similar questions about Fultz and Tatum who went #1 and #3.

I liked Ball coming out of HS and for the most part I thought he was very good at UCLA. I try not to let what his father has done ruin my judgement of Lonzo but I do admit its hard to imagine his father is going to fade away from the limelight now that he's gotten himself front and center. Having said that, Lonzo did/does have the one trait that surpassed all other draftee's in that he really has the ability to make those around him better. Very unselfish player on the court and the move to the NBA should actually benefit him in many aspects.

The reason I question picking him so high is if his potential is Jason Kidd or a pass first PG with some offense I'm not sure the Lakers made the best move in my opinion. If he ends up an All-Star, or LA can surround him with good enough players where Lonzo has the ability to elevate everyone's game and become the floor leader the Lakers have missed for years then picking him 2nd becomes a bargain.

How long will the Lakers be willing to wait on Lonzo is the question? Immense pressure to succeed right off the bat has already been placed on his shoulders by Magic. They did, just trade Russell who they picked in the Top 5 2 years ago and dumped him away to the lonely Nets so we know the recent track record for the Lakers waiting on guys is not reality.

@justanotherfan

The question I have still is; was Ball worth the 2nd pick if he's never going to be a dynamic scorer?

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 I think CP3 signs a 1 year deal somewhere with a 2nd year Player option. Then I think he opts out so him and LeBron go win a championship somewhere together the next season.

Certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

If I was a PG, young or veteran sans the cold of Minnesota I'd want to be apart of that trio they have. No team is poised to make a bigger jump then they are.

the off-season is too long. is that the gist of the this so far?

@Kcmatt7

Good points. The amount of money Paul can get staying with the Clippers is staggering but I was throwing it out there because of how exciting adding Butler to Wiggins/Towns is and the thought that the biggest name out there might possibly look at them as a destination. If he wants to win then I'm not sure the Clippers are going to be what gets him there.

@Kcmatt7

Huge point about Ball that you made. I do think it all depends on who is around him.

Was he worth the #2 pick if he's not good enough to be a stand alone talent? Maybe its too early to tell. He is a gifted passer (possibly in the mold of Jason Kidd) and has overcome any criticism thrown his way so far but I do think the NBA will be a much different environment for him to try and succeed in. His father's antics have made it even harder now. Vets are going to go after him in spite of who his dad is.

Should be a very exciting season watching these rookies grow.

@Kcmatt7

Any chance they become an option for Chris Paul?

I really don't know how the $ thing would work for the T-Wolves but I've seen what it would take for the Spurs and Rockets to possibly land Paul and the price was steep.

If your upgrading from Rubio to get shooting/scoring etc I didn't see a PG Minnesota should be jumping up and down to get.

Bledsoe would be the best option but I don't know if the Suns plan to keep shopping him now that they have a 3rd piece to go with him and Booker. That wouldn't make much sense for the Suns.

There was reports that Rubio for Reggie Jackson during the season could have been an option. Maybe the Pistons PG becomes an option this off-season..

It's clear the Wolves need and are looking for an upgrade to this team going forward at the PG position.

approxinfinity said:

Also, on the flipside, maybe LA saw Josh as a threat and wanted him in the East, hoping Boston would take him.

There was a period where it seemed Josh had a great chance of ending up in LA. Maybe that was a smoke screen all along but he was one of what 3 guys who got a 2nd workout? Fox and Ball being the others. When Ball got the last 2nd workout that seemed telling and then the trade of Russell just made it easy to fill in the blank.

There could have been some resistance for Josh going to Boston because Danny Ainge is so unpredictable and the pick whether it was #1 or #3 was open for trade the entire time. I don't believe the Celtics wanted to draft a wing all along and there is no guarantee Tatum makes it the whole summer as a Celtic as they continue to test the market for big name free agents. With multiple wings on the roster already I can see Tatum being moved for a bigger piece.

@approxinfinity

That is how I'm viewing it as well. I think Jackson and his agent had the Suns word if he fell to 4 and they made it happen. While he loses out on some money as well as landing on a Eastern Conference contender he might end up in the best situation for himself in Phoenix.

As I said before I think we are seeing how much power Agents/players have over teams. The Celtics didn't need a personal workout from Jackson to draft him nor did the Sixers or Celtics need one from Ball but yet each manipulated their own situations to go where they wanted to go.

Texas Hawk 10 said:

@jaybate-1.0 Malik Monk and Donovan Mitchell are both listed at 6'-3" and were each lottery picks last night. The NBA is trending smaller than when Chalmers came out so bro g a 6'-3" combo guard isn't that big a deal in today's NBA.

Both players you listed are unbelievable athletes. Newman tested with a 35 inch max vert in 2016 so he's not even close to them athletically which is a big factor in why their other measurables didnt stop them from going in the lottery. Monk was also the best shooter in the draft, Mitchell was coveted for his ability to create offense and play pg.

We have no idea yet what Newman will standout at but we hear good things about his offense

Kentucky players/recruits on the U-19 roster. Diallo & Washington- freshman. Recruits, Quickley (rumored to be a done deal to UK), Romeo Langford, King (KU Targets), Reddish (Duke done deal).

Kcmatt7 said:

@BeddieKU23 Yea I think they will give him the qualifying offer, but that is it. Odds are someone else will give him a shot. Knicks are rumored too. My personal pick would be him to be in Chicago. They get televised quite a bit and he would get a lot of PT. Would fit well with Fred too I think.

I hope he lands somewhere with a chance to turn things around. Ben has underachieved in the NBA and while his situation was never the best with Sacramento he needs to prove himself at his next stop because he may not get another. Whatever city gets him is getting a great person off the court as well in the community.

@Kcmatt7

It is odd he or his agent chose to decline the workout with Boston. Maybe they seriously thought the 3rd pick was going to be traded after they traded down from 1. With Ainge I don't think anyone ever has a clue what he's going to do.

But I think with them drafting Brown last year that had a big part in this. I think JJ was looking for a spot he could become a featured player. The Suns have young pieces, Booker had a breakout season but Bledsoe was on the trade block so JJ ends up in a situation where he's possibly one of the top 3 options as a rookie? The Suns GM really was sold on JJ so maybe they had guarenteed him a draft promise at 4 if he threw off the team directly above them.

What the 2017 draft has started to show is how much power the players and the people around them (agents, fathers) etc have on the draft process now. Hardly any of the top picks test at the combine and we now have players choosing which teams they prefer or don't want to land at.

Kcmatt7 said:

It doesn't look like McLemore will be in Sacremento guys. More likely will end up going to a good team and coming off the bench. Talk that the Cavs should give him a look. Also fits what GSW are doing.

Your probably right, I think its in the best interest of both parties for Ben to find another team.

Texas Hawk 10 said:

KU has 3 potential 2018 lottery picks right now and 5 guys total who could be drafted.

Newman, Preston, and Azubuike are all possible lottery picks with Azubuike being a potential top 5 pick with his size.

Full on hyperbole with Doke.

justanotherfan said:

I don't think it was a slap in the face to KU that they only had two guys drafted. KU only had three guys in the draft, and we all knew that Lucas being drafted was an extreme longshot. Josh went one pick lower than many had predicted, but he was too talented to really slide once Boston didn't take him. At that point, he was the best player on the board and Phoenix picked him immediately.

Mason went earlier than a lot of people probably expected.

Self doesn't load up on NBA type athletes, so he's not going to get guys drafted at the same rate. Look at the current team. Graham is a smaller PG, so he won't be a lottery pick, though he will likely get drafted. Newman is explosive so he probably will, and maybe can sneak into the back end of the lottery. Preston is a first round body, but needs to match that with production. Azuibuke is the same. Svi is a late first round/second round type talent. Same for Vick. Nobody else on this years team is even a real prospect (not counting the Lawson's since they aren't eligible to play). Six guys are potential draftees, but none are surefire lottery picks and half of them are probably late first or early second round type picks.

That's just the nature of it.

I feel you gave an accurate description of next years Jayhawks that might be in the draft.

A lot of bordlerline 1st round picks unless some of these guys really take the next step.

Newman is a tough one to predict. He's not going to be a natural SG in the NBA at 6' 3 1/2 (what he measured at the 2016 combine) and he's not going to be the primary ball handler at Kansas this year with Graham so I'm really wondering how NBA folks are going to view him 2nd time around? I also feel like there will be some scouts that hold him hostage for his 2016 combine performance (think Josh Hart this year). Now having said that it certainly does look like Newman has improved a lot in his time at Kansas already and might be in best position to change people's opinions as long as this year goes well.

approxinfinity said:

He's got Buddy Hield and Fox, two good kids. He's got two older short PGs to beat out on the roster in Collison and Lawson. I think the PT is there and the start of a younger core that Frank can help head up (assuming the front by office makes good decisions going forward).. Half the team is going to be younger than him. Maybe the dysfunction is a blessing in disguise if he gets a lot of PT.

If the Kings move on from Collison or Lawson that would be ideal, I can't see them getting rid of both from a veteran perspective but at least 1 would pave the way for Mason to possibly get some playing time next year.

I forgot about Hield, who played better for the Kings then he did the Pelicans and they are obviously very familiar with each other from the Big-12 battles. Maybe the Kings are finally headed in a direction that will be positive.

First off, congrats Frank. You have a ton of fans supporting you and what a wild ride its been for this young man this year. He can support his child and his family now.

The negatives: He lands in NBA purgatory.

There is nothing positive to say about an organization that has fallen so far off the cliff. Landing anywhere but the Kings would have been ideal from every perspective.

He gets to play with Ben, I guess that's a positive.

Kings did take some steps in the draft Getting Fox, Justin Jackson, Harry Giles & Mason. Giles is being touted by a lot of people to be a good NBA player if his knees ever hold up.

Here's a thought, Frank Mason wins every College award and is the best point guard in the nation but the Kings take Fox with the 5th pick over Mason. I'm sure Frank is going to use that as motivation to beat him out in the future, I just have this feeling he will. Fox couldn't beat you and I in a game of horse if the game was played outside the FT line. He's a young Rajon Rondo without the court vision.

We will see what the future lies for BIFM!!

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

approxinfinity said:

@BeddieKU23 You think? I was pretty impressed with him at Duke.

I do I think he's a selfish player and was one of the main reasons duke had chemistry issues

Team cancer.

Maybe his game translates to the NBA but he doesn't defend or pass and he was not a better shooter then Jackson in any stat outside of free throws

Wooo

approxinfinity said:

@BeddieKU23 You think? I was pretty impressed with him at Duke.

I do I think he's a selfish player and was one of the main reasons duke had chemistry issues

approxinfinity said:

@BeddieKU23 nah I get it. Tatum has some nasty upside.

Not athletic enough

Absolute junk pick by the Celtics

espn about as clueless as can be in their update of 2019 rankings.

Markese not ranked, in fact he doesn't exist to them yet

looks like Jackson could slide to 5 to the Kings. Career suicide if that happens

KUSTEVE said:

I think it's time to pull out the dead horse image again.

:horse:

BShark said:

BeddieKU23 said:

Garrett could be 6'9 on the official roster by fall. haha

:joy:

At this rate he will be 7' by the time he gets minutes.

Just in time to take over Doke's position at the 5

Garrett could be 6'9 on the official roster by fall. haha

jaybate 1.0 said:

@BeddieKU23

This sucks, but...

Charlie was ranked a 4-star as a recruit, despite being Illinois POY.

He's 5-10 in KU inches.

And Cal probably hasn't given a ride at PG to a 4-star recruit, since sometime before Derek Rose at Memphis.

Coaches play favorites for sure. But a 4-star player just wouldn't have a prayer getting picked over OAD and 5-star talent regardless.

KU has to break the apparent embargo on OAD and 5-star talent at the 1and 5.

Further, it appears KU may soon have to break a potentially emerging embargo on freshman.

Transfer U should NOT be the moniker of an elite major.

I think it was Self who said he didn't play great so not surprising that he missed the team if he didn't perform well. Kids in the past have used this experience positively.

The 2nd part of this is that Calipari is hand selecting every player that 'A) is either on his team currently and 'B) is actively being recruiting by him for the 2018 class.

Still 6 cuts to go but I have no doubt in my mind this will be a predominately UK flavored squad