no foul on the mason attempt you have to be kidding me
BeddieKU23
31745 posts
uggly ugggly start
my hope record is pretty poor as well. We just have to hope that either Lucas or Traylor can make a few shots and not turn the ball over.. That's the reality of this situation now. I don't see Self magically playing his small ball lineup because the reality of that is he never really surprises you.
i dont know how you can feel confident Hunter will do anything when he's played 71 minutes total this year. We will need him for fouls but otherwise I don't expect anything positive from that
starting traylor.... this isnt good
i was too but TCU just inst that good
you didnt really think they would win did you..
thats as likely as ku playing zone defense. or finding jesus in the stands
looks like his last game in a KU uniform if this is the way its going.. and in terms of the tourney means nothing good
texas has out rebounding their opponents in their last 3 games and those all ended up in loses. We clearly need to rebound the ball well against them because they are not a good shooting team and the fact that they are playing in Allen should help them miss more. We will see it would be nice if Cliff or anyone put on their big boy pants because lately that hasn't happened.
I'll agree with that assessment. It's not like he has the handles or quickness to create his own shot right now so most of his success has come off spotting up. I think this off-season he will work on improving that part of his game as the next evolution in him getting more minutes.
Well said, they have had their chances and failed miserably to keep themselves off the bubble. I don't think going on the road in the most hostile place to play in the country not just the Big 12 is going to give them the edge they will need to win. KU is playing for just as much or more now and it's going to be a great game for KU. We started a 4 game losing streak for them earlier this year and we get a chance to give them another 4 game losing streak tomm.
I could see a blowout because of the Atmosphere that is likely to occur with a bounce back game and gameday crew in town. I think it will be hard for our players to not be jacked up knowing they can control their own destiny these next 3 games.
Factor in the players only meeting and I bet a few things get corrected on Saturday that we need to see.
Texas has played horribly since we beat them in Austin. I've watched 3-4 games and they are a horribly underachieving team that doesn't seem to have good chemistry. That guy Yancy has come on for them lately
How has he not been suspended for the next game for that is beyond me. The guy from Seton Hall got 2 games for punching a Villanova player in the face. What's the difference in this one it was clearly a blatant act
Baylor is a team that can get far in the tournament with its blend of 3 point shooting, odd defense and post players. I wouldn't be surprised if they made it farther than any Big 12 team again depending on matchup. It's not like we beat the pants out of them this year
The only time I will ever say this. Thank you Baylor and Scott Drew. Okay that's over I hope that this thread helped the cause and helped some of us heal back to normal. Now we really control our destiny and just need to take care of business at home.
I think we can thank the Baylor Bears a little bit for taking some of us off the edge of the cliff including myself.
Whatever criticism we have about what's happened is warranted, and even with as great a program as we are we are not accustomed to seeing these "down" games.
Now as fans, we have the opportunity to get behind this team for the final stretch, the 4th quarter 2 minute drive. These kids need our fans to be turned up Saturday & Tuesday. I don't think it will be hard to do, and I sure as hope they respond to some home cookin.
Do we?
Do we want to earn the title on our own or with some help?
Tonight's game in Ames would gift wrap at least a share if they lose and KU wins at home Saturday & Tuesday. We don't really want OU to win in Ames Monday because that could set up the game in Norman to mean more for them than us potentially.
I admit, I was rooting for Texas and Oklahoma St last Saturday but both teams were painfully terrible to watch and rout for playing ISU & WVU. Go Baylor... for one night only.
KU will have to collapse to drop to a 3 seed. Our #1 rpi is going to keep us on the 2 line unless we lose 2-3 more games. Notre Dame just lost last night to Syracuse so their resume just took a hit. Notre Dame has to have everything go right to get ahead of us at this point because their Non-Con schedule was horrendous.
I'd say you forgot the debacle in Oklahoma St. as well. We simply rolled over in that game. We had an 8 point lead in the 2nd half against K-St then made 2 baskets in a 10 minute period as was pointed out by others, if that's not rolling over I don't know what is. I'm not arguing your points just sharing a different point of view from how I see how we have played on the road.
A lot of things can play out in these last 3 games for us as you have pointed out.
The players left have these games remaining.
Iowa St: Tonight vs Baylor. Sat @ KSU. Monday vs OU. @ TCU next Saturday.
OU: Saturday vs TCU. @ Iowa St Monday. Vs KU next Saturday.
West Virginia: @ Baylor Saturday. @ KU Tuesday. Vs Oklahoma St. next Saturday.
If KU & Iowa St head into next Saturday without a loss, then KU will have a lot of motivation. I give that the only plausible way we walk away from Norman with a win. If OU survives in Ames then they will be playing at home with a hungry team. Those are recipes for disaster.
I haven't lost the faith at all but my comments I stand by because that's the reality. We are not going to become magically better on the road in a week. We've seen this script 3 weeks in a row.
If the game in Norman means OU can get a piece of the league title it will be madness there.
Tonight's game between Baylor and Iowa St could be our saving grace. If Baylor somehow wins, all KU has to do is win its 2 game home stand for a share.
all this talk about the conference championship being a burden is just perception to us fans. I'm sure the players from time to time think about the streak but at the end of the day it has no bearing on how we are playing on the road.
You have Perry trying to take this team on his back like Monday and nobody else on board. Mason & Selden are non-existent in the leadership category. As a team they are not rallying among themselves to pull out wins and that's a sign of a young immature team without a collection of leaders. Allen Fieldhouse has masked many more issues, without the home field advantage we wouldn't even be in the conversation for #11. Unless this 2 game home stand finds a way to re-energize these kids the rest of the season will end just like the losses to OSU, WVU, & K-St have been.
I agree that there is no way we win in Norman especially if they find a way to beat Iowa St in Ames. They would be playing for a share of the crown and you can bet your bottom dollar Hield & Cousins will go off. This team is just a poor road team and it pains me to be right about it but its the truth. We as fans have to realize that this team is going in the wrong direction and nothing short of a coaching miracle is going to change that.
we got that steal and then Ellis doinked a jam. Ball goes out of bounds.. We inbounds and throw it away and there went the lead.
From there it was a 37-22 run.. Pathetic was the only word you missed
HEM, I think you were just 2 days off on the "title thread". February 23rd was the day the season died.
they didn't play any defense. You win on the road playing defense. It doesn't matter about anything else when you cant stop the other team from scoring. This is exactly the team many of us are criticizing. This isn't a great Self team, its not even a good Self team. 22-6 record with some good non-con wins is just clouding what we really are. Conference play has exposed that and if it weren't for Allen Fieldhouse masking everything at home as well we'd have more losses.
We didn't want it, we gave up layups to nobody's. Johnson was unconscious.
you get 42 minutes from Lucas ,Mari & Cliff and you get 3 points and 8 boards. That's SAD news right there.
Mason was on a suicide mission in the first half it was like he was literally trying to fix the game. That 3 pointer he shot in the 2nd half looked like someone took over his body and shot that. I couldn't believe how horribly it looked.
Every one of Selden's t/o's turned into points, maybe I'm wrong but I know most of them did.
The bottom line is this team doesn't know how to finish. Up 41-33 Mason throws an idiotic pass to Ellis feet goes out of bounds. K-St scores not even 20 seconds later. We all knew the lead wouldn't last. We have seen this picture 10-15 times this season. Christ we had seen in 3 times in the first half before that. That's not something Self can correct, its on the players.
Maybe the most disappointing regular season loss in Self's tenure. it's on par with TCU.
game game game
mason with a i dont know what im doing 3
its over now
meltdown mode
nigel johnson is killing us already 2.5 times his season average. why did thomas get 2 first half fouls again
of course, he saves his job if he wins tonight and worse is that foster transfers after season
we should just roll with Graham. You can't trust that mason is just going to magically stop trying to fix the game
can it get any worse? we play well, have some bonehead plays and have 1 player our PG on a suicide mission by himself. he completely ruined Perry's great half
Foster hasn't been starting since coming back.. I bet that changes tonight.
Last year he had 20 at home against us as we forgot to cover him all game. This year we guarded him well in the 1st half then he made contested 3's 2nd half.
It's the whole key to stopping them. They don't have a single reliable shooter on their team other than him. I know Self will focus a lot of his game plan on him. Let Gibson get his, he usually does but if Foster is cut off so is the team.
I think we just want to survive tonight. Play well enough to survive and get ready for a juiced home game on Saturday and Tuesday. I don't think it matters whether we win by 30, we didn't win by 30 against them at home when they shot terribly so I don't see any reason to believe we blow them out.
I do want to see a road effort worthy that we can hang our hats on for the last 2 weeks of the regular season. A loss is well bone-crushing and unacceptable, there's no other way to put it. K-St is in turmoil and their best player is a couple games away from either being forced to leave or leaving on his own.
This game comes down to defense. If KU plays good defense and doesn't let KSU score easy baskets we will win. I'm confident that no other factor will affect the outcome that hard nosed Self defense will do. That's always been the staple for winning on the road, was punching them in the mouth on defense.
If and that's the magical if, we get to play UK again this year we can all assume Self won't run his standard stuff against them. He would scheme to find a way to get the open shots we didn't get 1st time around. Self is a master at planning payback games. Mason for most of the season has been deadly at driving to dish to open shooters. So those are a few things going into our favor if we did get the repeat chance. You'd have to think mentally our guys would be amped up to give some payback as well.
I thought the model on how to beat them would be to shoot a high % from the field and out-effort them but we've seen teams make 11 3's on them and still lose (ole miss) and we've seen A&M struggle from the field and nearly win. Those close games have all seen the bounces go their way whether it be FT's, rebounds, shots etc..
The tournament is always a different story than the regular season. I mean how does UConn & UK make the finals without a lot of luck going their way. UConn went to OT in the 1st game, UK needed 3 point Heroics from the Harrison boy more than once. Offensive scheme change or not, it could come down to 1 shot, 1 loose ball, 1 rebound to knock them off...
You make a very good point about this team with the statement
"Well is this team getting any better"
I bet you can ask 50 KU fans and get a wide variety of answers on that subject.
I think the team got better over the break and our Big 12 Stats say that we have been good enough to win any given night. I think this team has come in spurts or "runs" especially if you break the season down into segments.
If we focus just on conference play we've either gotten better by game or worse. This also includes playing at home vs away. We've won ugly at home (OU 2nd half, TCU, K-St, OSU), we've lost ugly on the road (WVU, OSU) not counting ISU because we just weren't prepared and we did fight back to make it close. We can take games from certain half's or 5-10 minute segments from others where this team is great, clicking on all cylinders. Then we can point out how quickly those cylinders come off just as easy.
I think as fans, especially talking about everything KU everyday we are invested and therefore its easy to be critical. We know what this teams ceiling can be and when we underperform its hard to understand why but that's all part of the madness and why this game is so great.
To me, we've yet to put 2 half's together since the Iowa St home game that were games with great effort that will win Tournament games. That's my opinion of where we are currently. I think the team is struggling to put it all together while its finding ways to win at home and completely looking lost at times on the road. Monday's game will either further that belief or finally give me a more positive outlook.
Ellis is trending way up. You can see it in his game that he's really starting to show off on offense. It's not just the dunk he had but those spin move hooks are a thing of beauty. If you notice Self is playing him more minutes lately and he's responding with it. It's great when your best offensive talent and Jr is playing his best basketball. That to me is a great sign that we could get 20 out of him almost every night. If he makes a few more FT's yesterday he would have been close to 30.
The thing that scares me the most about this team is when we build a lead we blow it quicker than it took to get there. Ellis had 2 slams and made it a 16 point lead. TCU goes on a 11-2 run immediately after. Not a dragged out run either, we lost a big lead in minutes. We had a 5 point lead at WV, it took all of 30 seconds to lose it. We had a 11 point lead at half against OSU, lost it in less than 2 minutes. It's those few minutes of play that leave that sour taste in your mouth.
I'm trying to enjoy the ride as much as I can, sometimes its hard because negativity is harder to shake than all the positive. We are 22-5 with a 1 game lead still. We have a golden opportunity to finish these last 4 games out with W's and head to the tourney's on a high note.
Devonte had a great game. He single handily with Mason & Ellis saved this game. It was great to see him respond to his own criticism of his game and then come out and have maybe the game of his career.
I think Self just rode the hot hand and with 2 driving point guards out there we were just too quick for TCU. Selden had one of those games where he was just kind of there, a few plays that don't show up in the box score but offensively he was just out there.
Devonte must now keep this aggressiveness. If he performs similar on Monday on the road I will believe this game wasn't just a quick up because before yesterday his game was trending way down. His turnovers in the West Virginia game were very freshman like. He's averaged 3 points a game on the road including Zero in his last 3 games away from Allen. It's much easier for a freshman to perform well at home then away so I will be paying attention to how he does against the kitties.
I absolutely agree with your assessment. It's too late now to expect Cliff to change into this player we need him to be. His injuries might be holding him back and he might not mentally believe he can fight through them to help this team out. Or is he just saving himself from further injury so he can get paid in a few months. It's a great mystery to anyone probably including coach.
I thought because he got benched in the WVU game that he would come out with an edge. I didn't see it, I saw early fouls again plague him, I saw missed offensive opportunities, lack of effort on the boards, lack of effort to stop your man from getting an easy layup. All the things that continue to keep him on the bench. When he got that cheap 3rd foul out on the 3 point land that was the last straw for me and coach.
The question I have is "what motivates Cliff". I've yet to see him talk about himself and be like "I need to get better", "I need to do these things". Devonte called himself out and look what happened he had a monster career game. That to me tells me the character of Devonte vs Cliff. What kind of Character does Cliff have if Coach has continually challenged him and he just doesn't get it.
I will give him a pass for being a freshman and in general every big man at KU has struggled their first year, some much worse than him. He's just under the microscope because we don't have 2 more talented kids then him, he was a top 5 recruit and All American and the expectations that he could come in and help us were real. So when you look at it, expecting a freshman big man to be the savior to this storied program in a system that usually spits kids back to reality their first year might just be unrealistic.
I have no doubt in my mind that the lessons Self is trying to teach him are in his best interest even if its taking away his playing time. Yesterday before the game I was wondering why Cliff doesn't get the coaching in game, then give him the chance to learn from that lesson. Yesterday's game told me why that doesn't happen. We are stuck with Mari & Lucas giving us just enough to maybe hold on for #11 but if Ellis isn't playing at the level he is now in the tournament it will be the death of our season. Anything less than a Mitch Mcgary showing is going to change his season around. Maybe this struggle is what he needs so that whatever offseason uniform he is in, he can look back and get hungry from it.
only if you want to be really mad in stretches, ellis & graham great games. The rest well yeah
no what is being said?
yees
if he did the things he was supposed to, he wouldn't be but because his consistency to play dumb keeps happening whats the point
no like he deserves to be out there
our defense is just horrid against anyone that even thinks about driving
perry was fouled, no call
zeigler not even touched foul
to know this team could give up 9 straight after those dunks by ellis is exactly why we don't have what it takes
we are a 2nd round team at best this year. we just don't know how to finish
wow ellis that was unbelievable