I absolutely agree that cheating was most likely the standard everywhere. This Melo situation says its still happening not even 4-5 years ago at a major university. It will be interesting to see how much this truly affects them. I see they can even defer the penalties start date by a year. Why come down on them hard if they get a pass for year just because they signed 4 top 100 players. You make the penalties effective now, not a year from now where they've had the time to adjust and plan for it.
BeddieKU23
31745 posts
Seemed more an institution based problem than it being certralized around a Roy Williams problem. If that was the case I think information would have leaked that jeopardized his job already. You know the media wouldn't stop until they ruined his career, its what they do..
I think KU fans underestimate the value of the conference tournament because we never have to worry about fighting to make it in. For the small time schools this is the chance to get their name out there. Helps with recruiting/revenue to the school etc..
Besides that since the Big 12 has only 10 teams now and we are playing each school twice it's saturating the quality of the tournament because teams have already battled each other. What's their to gain by playing Baylor, ISU, OU, West Virginia again. Really there isn't any value to that.
In other power conferences like the ACC, Big 10, Pac 12 your not playing the same school twice anymore so if you get a say Duke/Virginia ACC final that actually has some excitement to it but if KU plays OU in the Big 12 finals its oh really a 3rd matchup.. The excitement of it is gone.
The story that came out about how Fab Melo is disturbing. How coaches wrote a paper to get his grade changed. How did he get into College if he was still learning the basics of the english language. There's no way he passed a SAT or minimum requirements to get into College if their wasn't cheating happening before he even got there. Crazy story
So everyone, before we embark in the Big Tourney let's have a pick em. Who's everyone feeling in this tournament? Any upsets? Will it be formful or will some madness come a week early? Please share your thoughts..
Wednesday's matchups are okay. I'm glad Texas matched up in the other side.
I'm going with Kansas St in the TCU game. Not because I think K-St is a better team but because they will be playing relatively close to home and should at least have some fans on hand. TCU is probably a better team but I'd rather not face a team we've beat twice already this early because a 3rd time is really hard to do. I think we can use the K-St matchup on Thursday to fuel us to the final especially when we owe them something for that game in Manhattan.
I'm going with Texas against Tech because Tech just isn't that good of a team and I think Texas will be playing for dear life these next 4 days.
Thursday's first game is a great matchup. I'm assuming Huggins rested Staten and Browne for this game and with them back I give them a better chance then they fared in the regular season against BU. Baylor flat out dominated them in both matchups, can they do it again? I'm picking Baylor because I'd rather face the zone then the stupid full court pressure again.
Obviously I'm picking KU against K-St here. Revenge factor.. hopefully a Healthy Ellis & Selden and head screwed on tight Greene will play. It will be a close game but we will pull out a 8-9 pt win in the end.
Oklahoma/Oklahoma St. is crazy that your quarterfinal game might have 2 rivalry games in KU/KSU and this one. OU is clearly the better team and Oklahoma St isn't coming in here on all cylinders. OU wins easily in this one I think.
Texas/ISU. Interesting matchup in the fact that Texas needs to win 2 games to secure a bid and with ISU a highly ranked team gives them that chance. ISU wasn't a good road/neutral squad and like KU relied heavily on the home-court advantage to finish 2nd in the conference. Part of me wants Texas to win so the league gets 7 bids and eliminating ISU early would be a nice haha you suck to their fans. I'm picking Texas in the upset.
Friday's semi's
Baylor/KU. Man a 3rd time against these guys could be trouble as I pointed out beating a team 3 times is hard no matter the opponent. When its a team that's good and played us really tough twice makes it harder. Basically I want BU over WVU because West Virginia would wear out our guys if they were to win, which I hope happens to Baylor so that we have fresher legs late in the game. I also think we play much better out of a zone then a press. I'm picking KU to win because I want to believe in this team going forward and enjoy the ride. We could certainly lose but I think we pull it out.
Texas/OU. I think OU will win this game because Texas having beat ISU gets its signature win to stay off the bubble. OU will shoot well from outside and wear down a Texas squad who will struggle to score from outside. OU to the finals
Finals:
KU/OU. A repeat of last weeks thriller. Can't believe we let another team beat us at the buzzer but heck our guys played a heck of a game to come back at the end. The game was won in the first half where Selden and Graham built a few brick houses shooting the ball. That was last week, Saturday we will have our team back minus Cliff and that's good enough to beat OU this time and claim the crown.
Sounds promising that we will have him, I'm sure he will want to play. How athletic or aggressive will he be though? An injury like that can mess with your head and we just started to see Perry playing at a level we had never seen before.
We should get Greene back, and a more healthy Selden. Although besides his ankle he needs his momma to give him a spark again. His shooting lately has been lacking.
We are definitely not coming into this tourney on all cylinders which has to make us the most vulnerable we have ever been in even a conference championship.
Stat's don't really distinguish things.
You have Turner who got 7 double digit scoring games for I think it was 9.9 conference average. Oubre had 11 double digit scoring games for 10.2 average.
Then you have Oubre who started every conference game but 1 vs Myles Turner who comes off the bench.
They both did well rebounding the ball. Block shots clearly go to Turner as he's 7ft.
The biggest deciding factor to me was impact on the team. Oubre was indispensable to this teams run to #11. Turner didn't do anything to keep Texas from finishing no where. Reputation won him the award nothing else.
I think we'd rather play Kansas St then Tcu in the quarterfinal. Tough to beat a team 3 times in one year and it isn't like we played well in either matchup. K-St would provide a little revenge factor for us. We need any edge we can get. Semi's looks tough if we make it that far, again it's either Baylor who'd be really hard to beat a 3rd time or those West Virginia guys again. Nothing fun really about that prospect.
Wasn't it Townsend that found him while scouting Mclaughlin who's a freshman at USC this year, another PG we missed out on. Regardless his improvement has been remarkable and he deserves all the praise he gets. He has PG skills still to work on but that's what the next 2 years will provide him the opportunity to do. And it allows Graham a great role model to learn and grow with. I think our PG duties are in the best hands the next few years. Next year we can focus on signing one we can groom up for the future.
Mason deserved first team but sometimes the politics of the polls don't give you the best player over the course of the year. I think we can all be happy he didn't end up at Towson.
those results are a joke
First team
Juwan Staten (without him West Virginia would be average at best this year.)
Frank Mason (without him KU would have been right back to crying about no PG)
Buddy Hield (competitor, what can you say we wish he choose KU instead)
Perry Ellis (came on strong at the end to earn first team)
Rico Gathers ( best rebounder in the country has improved his offensive game immensly)
2nd team
Phil Forte ( have a strong disdain for him personally but he became an all around player)
Isiah Cousins (improved to become lethal 3 point shooter with Hield)
Taurean Prince (comes off the bench to average 14 a game improved leaps and bounds)
Lebryan Nash ( just a scorer, and a good one)
George Niang (probably 1st team on reputation, I think others proved more)
All Freshman Team
Oubre-KU
Turner-UT
Carter-WVU
Williams-T-Tech
Motley-Baylor
COY
Self in a landslide
POY
Hield for consistent play in Big 12
FOY
Kelly Oubre (if Turner wins this, people don't have a clue or watched any Big 12 play)
Newcomer of the year
Tashawn Thomas
Comments:
Mason probably loses out on first team because of Staten & Hields reputation but he belongs. Niang I thought wasn't consistent enough to earn first team and Ellis & Gathers really had monster games that put them on it.
If Turner wins Freshman of Year you haven't watched enough basketball to tell me he deserves it. 7 games in double figures plus many more where he didn't show up at all. He couldn't even start on a team that might not even make the tourney.
Oubre had 11 games in double figures and earned his keep in the lineup.
This is what his 3rd official time to the doghouse and he's a sophomore. What are you missing about that. While most of the team has no problem doing what they need to do as teammates he's yet again cost himself and his team more distraction. Greene had a chance to get major minutes today and we needed it because selden and graham couldn't hit a bucket in the first half. Whatever has gotten himself in trouble definitely came at the worst time.
yes today above all else was the perfect game for him to get starters minutes and show what he can do. Now we know that when the opportunity presents itself he goes and does something selfish. I love Brannen but what else can Self teach him.
You would think after the 1st or 2nd or even 3rd time being suspended for probably the same thing that you would get it.
Apparently Greene can't and that has to cause some doubt to where he will be in the off-season. How many chances with Self do you get before your shown the door regardless of talent
The only thing that it meaningful is that a loss today gives us 7. A possible loss in the Big 12 tournament gives us well everyone can do the math.
And that scenario can be the difference between seeding in Omaha or being placed further away from home. Our schedule has kept us squarely in the 2 line but 2 more losses would really put us in jeopardy of that. And playing a 15 seed especially in the last few years is a major difference in playing a 14 seed.
So not having Greene is totally on him, and a letdown to his team and his coach.
I know that we all are trying to be optimistic that we could somehow pull out a win today but those odds look awfully low.
Let me break it down
Mason Graham Oubre Traylor Lucas will start.
Your only subs are Svi & Mickelson.
Kids will be tired out by the under 10 of the 2nd half.
Self say's irresponsible.
Sweet so it looks like 7 eligible players today.
Awesome way to end the regular season.
Defense. We didn't play good defense down the stretch the first meeting. The 2nd meeting we played poor defense the first half and then 2nd half we brought defensive intensity we haven't seen consistently all year. And that goes to how young we are, and how certain things can motivate an entire team to play bigger than themselves. Is this team capable of that same fire on the road and on a neutral court? Well our recent sample of road games says no. We will see if that trend continues
When it comes down to this team shooting 3's or not, it's back to the identity of the coach. Self wants what he wants, he knows what can win a given game. I believe he knows that we have the 3 point shooters but relying on it from game to game is unlikely to win as many games as we have so he's doing things his way. I'm speculating, I'm guessing at the brain of the man behind #11 straight conference championships.
Do I think our 3 point shooting is as bad as it's been the past few games, I don't. I believe the key with most teams is momentum and when we make perimeter shots it makes the rest of the game come easier for us.
One of the biggest weakness of this team is passing. We are not an overly unselfish team that looks for the best shot on any given possession. We rely so much on Mason creating his own, Ellis driving and exploiting his defenders quickness to react to him. We've seen a lot lately of Mason taking shots without even passing, or driving to the hoop with no regard for a wrap around pass or a kick out to an open shooter. But I'm not mad at Mason because I know that he's trying to shoulder so much while continuing to become the point guard Self wants him to be. He still wants to score and he's damn good at it.
A lot of the good teams know their identity. Duke lives and die's by the 3 with some post game because they have it this year. Next year they will still be chucking 3's and making them. It's just what Coach K knows wins games. Wisconsin shoots a lot of 3's, their 7 footer is the best shooter on their team. A low possession team that makes a high % of shots and makes a good deal of 3's is who they are.
In conference, Iowa St is reliant on the 3. Oklahoma relies on the 3, West Virginia relies on the 3, Baylor relies on the 3. All these teams have built good programs competing with KU and they are all dependent on making perimeter shots.
So what's holding back Self from transforming this team to combine the dominance of his Hi/Low and make shots outside. I think he's bringing his team down to the competition by not realizing that the 3 point shot is an equalizer, a momentum changer, a dagger I can go on. We fought tooth and nail to win this championship and it won't be any easier to win #12 next year even with a majority of this team likely to be back. Self has to adapt so that he can keep the edge and the competitive advantage over the rest of the conference. Will he is the bigger question and not one we will ever know until we see it. He had the personnel to make such a change but he couldn't do it. We will live and die by Self's way and that's just how it is.
True, could be 2008 Final 4 all over again when we played North Carolina and just blitzed the pants out of them in the first half.
I'm sure the hype surrounding either an UNI or VCU rematch would hopefully put some fight into these kids.
We all hope that Self finds the edge to keep these guys winning. And more importantly the players find that edge in themselves. The good thing about this great tournament extravaganza is that a team like KU which had ups + downs can transform into an unstoppable machine. Uconn & UK were perfect examples of teams that just found themselves in March. The regular season didn't matter anymore and KU certainly has that chance.
Two issues I have with the Cliff situation and some of this goes back to how much of a Joke the NCAA truly is.
You have no governing of Agents, you know they exist and have an influence especially this time of year. Why are Agents allowed to roam free without punishment. They know what they are doing, its not like its public knowledge when they "sneak" around to gain access to pay days. Your never going to hear a Agent tweet " meeting with Cliff Alexander about gaining his services for the NBA". No, it's an allegation after the fact of whatever has happened and now becomes Cliff's fault. How the heck ( I will refrain from using profanity) does that become the players fault if he has no knowledge of the fact. That part is not known yet and will probably play a part in any punishment he receives.
The other issue I have is Cliff's family. Seriously you couldn't wait a month if in fact they did take some benefit. You weren't born yesterday, you know that if you take something from an Agent while he's still playing College ball that this is going to become an issue. How dumb can you be. I'm totally shocked that they could be this uneducated into this. Again I'm just speculating that they took something, and if it comes back that they didn't then this becomes an even bigger joke on the NCAA's long list of failed governance. It's truly sad that the Athlete will suffer in a present so that you can gain something in the future.
Rant over, but this brings up valid points that don't get addressed often..
Depends on how you look at things.
If you look at how we play on the road as an indication on how they will perform in March than we are probably on upset alert in the 2nd round.
Will we have Ellis healthy? Will Cliff be back or suspended? Will we be playing in Omaha or farther away from home? Will we be coming off a loss in the Big 12 tourney? Will we run through the Big 12 tourney and go into the Big Dance on the upswing? Still a lot of questions to be answered.
One of the things that sucks about whatever Region we will be in is the possibility of playing somebody we have already played. And do we want to get matched up against past demons like VCU, UNI. Suddenly the list is close to 15 or so teams. Hopefully wherever we get placed is favorable and possible to overachieve if that's how we are viewed. Of course we can win the whole thing but we will need some help and for Mason/Ellis to carry this team on their backs.
Totally agree, we survived the gauntlet and came out victorious again. Self should at least win Big 12 coach of the year. I mean no other school in the conference can replace the Top pick & #3 pick in the NBA draft and do what he's done.
Wiggins to Oubre wasn't a big drop off at all, you can even argue that Oubre has fit into this team so well that you don't even know he was a freshman. But to replace Embiid with nothing, not a single Center, just a collective assortment of bigs is astonishing.
But this is KU where winning is the culture.
For that the media darlings will probably hand the award to Bennett. I don't blame them for it UV has 1 loss and a collection of players who bought into his system. No stars, no thrills, just plain good basketball. Seasons like that don't come around often and especially with a team that wasn't expected to be as good as they were.
Even when he wasn't playing at the beginning of the year his stock never waivered. He's been around the 8-12 range since the season began basically.
His play lately has done nothing to suggest he won't be drafted in that area. He's even got a chance to go higher once he gets into workouts and shows off his wingspan, size for the position. It's wishful thinking to hope he comes back, but I think most of us understand that he's in a position to go Lottery and you don't pass that kind of money up.
You would have to think Bennett and Jacobsen are the front runners for COY. Virginia still winning without their best player. Nobody would have thought UNI would be any good much less ranked all year.
Self will always be undervalued in these awards because the fact that he wins every year has become a given. No matter if he takes a new starting 5, 1 starter here, 2 starters there it doesn't matter.
Mickelson's game reminded me of the one he had earlier this year against Lafayette where he was the spark that turned that game into a route. Games like that and how he played against WVU have me wondering why he hasn't played more.
We clearly can use him for defense, yes he fouls a lot but he also can block shots which is something we desperately need. He has shown he can finish around the hoop which is another issue some have (Lucas). At this point the more PT he gets is better for us going forward especially if the Cliff situation goes south or doesn't get resolved anytime soon. I hope he continues to get 10-15 minutes a game and see what he can do.
I have heard that one of Diallo's best attributes will be perimeter defense because of his quickness for his size. He's an elite defender, has great instincts for blocking shots and has a quick 2nd jump like Wiggins does. Clearly his biggest improvement will be to learn how to score against guys his size and establish go-to moves. I thought he was the perfect big for Self's system because he will be the perfect opposite to Bragg and 2 guys that don't project to leave after 1 year.. We will definitely see how this all turns out soon enough.
They have a similar player in McKay who isn't a jump shooter but is a run the floor shot-blocker and rebounder. That's kind of Diallo's game as he's about 3 years away from really have a solid offensive arsenal. Early in his career he's going to be a master at putbacks and assisted baskets near the hoop.
So they do have a shot with him, and they have apparently recruited him as well as everyone else if you take what people say to heart. St. Johns is the local sell, Kentucky & KU are the elite, and Iowa St is selling Hogue/McKay's role to him. Because he's basically said nothing we have not much to go on,
I honestly think it comes down to roster turnover with his decision. He is like everyone else and waiting to see what bigs leave UK. With Cliff's situation uncertain or certainly to leave that has to be positive for KU landing him.
He's got plates full of CROW he's got to eat on Andrew Wiggins as well. Dude straight up hated him for nothing
Recently the word was Iowa St.
KU has been to see him I think it was last week.
We know Kentucky & St Johns are still working him as well.
Really nothing new to report other than KU has been in contact recently and he's been very tight lipped about where he might go. Roster turnover seems to be the key to his decision.
I think we dislike most of the good teams in the league these days each time we play them. ISU certainly has become the new Mizzou. K-St lurks around just enough like last week to make us dislike them. OSU just seems to bring that punk mentality out when they play us. Texas has had its spurts of being a rival.
Tonight we put all that aside for the fact that an OU loss =equals the chance for 16,000 fans to light the Fieldhouse up if we win tomm. I can see it being the type of post game atmosphere that inspires and motivates these kids into the tournament. We all know this is a fragile team and needs confidence. What more than bringing #11 home on our own court.
If its his family, how is Cliff supposed to control that aspect if he say has no knowledge of the fact ala a Cam Newton situation.
If Cliff willingly knows that his dad/family is shopping his services then he probably gets suspended for the rest of the year and goes pro like he was going to anyway.
If he only gets a few games suspension or none at all, do we even want him back with one foot out the door already? He'd only be back to try and improve his "own" stock.
A lot of ways this could go down if in fact its a benefit situation...
so you'd rather not win the Conference outright at home then see Iowa St. hand us the chance on a silver platter. It will be magical if ISU wins tonight and gives our boys a home game to celebrate #11. What's better than that???
Personal feelings aside about Iowa St. and how much you may dislike them, you root for them to score more points than OU tonight because if Saturday's game involves OU playing for a share of the title its not a good situation.
word is this involves his dad. no confirmed source but if that's true that's gonna cost him games.
there is priority on this case so chances we know something sooner than later look good.
Yes your are right and nobody thought Iowa St would fall off their face in a week either.
I thought Hunter played fine in the few minutes he got Saturday. Assuming cliff has played his last game here we will need spot minutes from him. If Lucas or Traylor get themselves in foul trouble we certainly could use Mickelson's rim protecting ability.
I like it, you only have to jump for roughly 2 hours. I'm sure Iowa St will be fired up after the week they had in having their title dreams crushed.
After Saturday's events which saw KU claw to victory against Texas, OU benefit from terrible officiating, and K-St take out its 2nd big victory in a week in Iowa St. Monday brings a big matchup between OU and ISU. If Iowa St holds serve at home we win the Big 12 with a win Tuesday.
Last week I started the root or "rout" for Baylor Bears thread and we were graced with a victory from them over ISU. This week it's the opposite we want Iowa St. to win at home against OU and practically eliminate them from any championship hardware.
Everyone knows our last game is at OU on their Senior day and we don't want to go into Norman with Oklahoma having something to play for. We need the Cyclones to kill those dreams and KU can crown themselves at home. How great would that be for all this team has gone through to beat West Virginia and claim #11 at home. I certainly can't think of a better situation.
So for One night Only I will half heartedly become a Cyclones fan. Who's joining me??
Great post, one of your best I have read in a long time. It goes right with the Feb 21st the day the season died post.
We certainly saw 20 different ways this team could lose a game but still pulled it out. If it wasn't the constant fouling on drives, letting guards blow right by, terrible out of bounds defense, non-existent transition defense, missed shot after shot and yet we still won while making 1 3.
1 Three from Mason which totally changed the momentum of the game. This team thrives off momentum and to think that we wouldn't want to use that to our advantage all the time is beyond me.
A blue blood team that knows who they are is Duke. They shoot the 3 religiously while doing enough of everything else to win games. A dominate 3 point shooting team comes to KU and Self does everything he can to kill that dream. We just have to accept that our coach don't give a damn about scheming for any other way that he doesn't see fit. We will either die with it or in the tournament this team will find ways to score from the perimeter.
I tend to think we will die with it but until we see how this team responds to tournament atmosphere/matchup I can't predict for sure which team we will see.
I absolutely agree, Cliff has given us those moments too but when you realize he was a top 5 high school player and he's sitting the bench against role players your opinion of him leaves you wanting even more than we expected from #0 freshman year. The likelihood is we never get to see Cliff turn into the player thomas did.
The only defense I have is that freshman T-Rob was no better than freshman Cliff. Putting Jr. Robinson's year on Cliff's freshman year is unfair. Cliff is a kid who clearly needs skill development wherever it might be before he can truly become a good player. We just expect so much from cliff because of the high school accolades he had and the fact that this team had a glaring weakness in the post. You would figure that he'd be better than Mari and Lucas combined but that's not the facts.
I believe your right. The lack of a true 5 we can throw the ball to is going to kill us. And we haven't really seen anyone step up to the plate to take on a bigger role. Kelly can be that guy but its asking a lot for a freshman to be our 2nd leading scorer.
Mason has gotten out of control again driving to the hoop, he's trying to do too much. I don't fault him for trying to put this team on his back but his midrange and 3 point shooting are more important than him getting shots blocked. And you will notice when he does that he's taken himself out of the play on defense because he's going to the ground and the other team is on a run out.
For this team to be successful in the tournament its going to need stingy defense and great production from its bench. We can't get goose egg games from Traylor, Graham and 2 points from Greene and truly expect to win games. Ellis has completely taken over and that's great but he needs help. A collective help will do more than expecting near 30 points a game from Ellis. Teams in the tourney will double him, texas choose not to because of their size.
Usually I'm one that would worry that our season could be damaged but Self doesn't run that kind of program here and I'm just going to keep the faith that what this is, is a single person act (Cliff) doing something.
I believe there are 2 scenario's in play. He was cleared by the NCAA to go to KU, then they find he took a benefit in HS after the fact. They suspend him for the remainder of the year for finding this out.
He was cleared by the NCAA and while at KU he's talking to an agent which I believe is the most likely situation. I pray its not a booster that has gotten into his ear but we would hope Cliff isn't that dumb. I hate to talk so brandish about someone but from the beginning he just hasn't looked like he was invested into this team. Kelly certainly has bought in. Cliff has had singular games of development followed by consistent inconsistency. If he really has his head where it was supposed to be he would have taken the constant benching and coaching as learning experiences. We just haven't seen it with him and it's sad because everyone wants him to succeed but if he's got 1 foot out the door already, why not kick the other foot out as well.
The bright side to this is Lucas can continue to develop with extra minutes and this has to be positive for recruiting if he's gone
Ku would have to be in trouble with cliff like a cover up or a ku booster giving him some benefit for example would be how ku could be tied to this.
Memphis was told before playing rose that he was being investigated. They choose to play him anyway all year and when he was found ineligible after the fact they punished them
It seems self and everyone are shocked about whatever it is and that happened and with that belief it will be hard without evidence to prove this is nothing other than cliff himself doing something wrong.
It's not surprising a poster on .net has ties to the team and knows some one in his circle that has been hinting at behavior that has contributed to his slow development. He also said yesterday that he believes he's gone after this year anyway. Self may have his first big man that ends up a bust
The ncaa can only punish ku if whatever happened ku was involved with. If this is cliff being dumb and doing whatever on his own then he is solely punishable and ku has done the right thing by keeping him out of games. No worries, worst thing that can happen is cliff is ineligible and he goes pro and does everyone a favor
only 4 guys have scored thats the difference in the game. 2o missed shots at home we are playing to lose instead of the other way around
dont worry its not gonna last
because we are letting them, this team is underachieving
and he fouled 94 feet from the basket to put them in a 1 and 1, you sit after those freshman mistakes
junk refs but when have we ever had good ones