I cheered for Kentucky once and only once.
It was an Elite game vs Duke.
1992, the Grant Hill pass, the Laetner shot.
I will never make that mistake again and only cheer for the time space continuum to implode right before the opening tip and the game never to happen.
Now before I ask this I will say I like Bill Self and what he has done while at KU. Sure he didn't have to turn a program around or rebuild it, but he has done some great things here, even though most of you would give them up for a NC.
But here is my question, do you think the lack of being able to recruit and get a top flight D-1 PG is because KU plays the high low post game? Is it because KU is known for it's Big Men like Georgetown was in the 80's?
Could that be an issue as to why we are not getting the prolific PG we all so much want and need?
@icthawkfan316 NOrm tried to to run Coach Self's system at StJ's but it never took and they went all KU football on him and didn't give him a lot of time to instill his system with his players. They have won with some of his players and a different coach, but nothing like what StJ's used to be in the 80s.
I think all of these guys learn a lot from Self and he in return listens to him, but it's like getting advice from your kid, its the same advice you gave them. Then again those are the coaches you want on your bench and not ones that will argue with you so they can get a leg up in the biz.
However, credit to Calipari that he just let his athletes run around and use it to their advantage in the tournament.
In the SEC championship game when they made their run Cal wasn't doing much coaching he was letting them play. I even told a buddy once he gets involved again they will lose the game, they can't be coached and he can't coach that well.
What happens he calls a time out and tries to run a set play trying to have a guard come off the wing into the top of the key while trying to get around a defend. He slips ball comes lose.
You can say he slipped or not, he lost the handle on the ball, Floridas D stepped up, he didn't have anyone set a pick or anything, he set up a play to go one on one.
Not saying he hasn't gotten them to a better place this year than when they started, but lets give credit where credit is due. He has a loaded team full of players and athletes, they should be winning a lot of games and never get blew out.
@FarSideHawk Even if that means in 5 to 10 it might be vacated?
Florida
UConn thanks to Ollie would have never cheeeed for them without him.
Wisconsin
Kentucky
@Crimsonorblue22 auto correct no glasses on. Lol
Is the pic on his twitter account or someone else's?
@Crimsonorblue22 his twitter it whose?
@JRyman & @globaljaybird -- Don't think for a minute that "we really don't know squat."
We know the game, we know who the players are and we know the coaches. The game of basketball is overly simple, it is made complex by those who don't get the simple objective of getting the ball into the peach basket.
What I am saying is we don't know what happens in the locker room, the film room, in the one on one meetings. We don't know how player A is at practice compared to player G, we are not there, there fore we do not know squat.
We aren't in the time outs, we can hear what a sideline reporter reports, but we aren't in the huddle.
Having a knowledge of the game does not give one the knowledge that it takes to coach. Just because you were a great player does not give you the knowledge to be a great let alone a good coach. Anyone can pick up a book and take a test and become a basketball official, that does not make them knowledgeable.
We don't know what Coach Self is telling his players in practice there fore we can't say how they should play in a game, we don't know if he tells them to play this way and they just don't do it.
Unless you or anyone really close to you is on the staff we don't know squat.
I do think there are always things to investigate & learn from & move forward after every season is over, though not much time can be spent away from the job to recharge now & reflect. Bill does this every year & while it's so simple for us to convey our "expertise" & wishes for the Jayhawks, Bill's system has reached many peaks in his tenure here. A tweak here or there is all I'd suggest for gameday matchups. That & being a better game coach in the dance with shorter times to prepare your squad might be desired also, but I personally ALWAYS enjoy the "ride" just some years it's a little more or less so & longer or more brief than others. KU Athletics/BB is what & who I am & always have been. My Dad ran track & vaulted in Memorial stadium in the 1920's & I listened to the 1952 NC with him when I was literally in the crib because we didn't have a big enough bed. I cried when Carolina won the 57 NC & again when Texas Western took the game from us in 1966. My children went to college there. I share all these things with total strangers because its who am, day in & out, each day I live. I would never mortgage any of our accomplishments in all of the histories we've earned through the blood & sweat of those before or after us. Never. The ride is always very good for many like me & always will be. It began with horses & buggies, emerged on trains then automobiles, & continues on with Boeings & Learjets. I would not be critical of those who do not view things as I, but will always try to take their points & thoughts into consideration to better understand all. After all-we are all on the same side, with the same goal, with the same team, and that is reason of in itself to enjoy the ride, because this is The University of Kansas Athletics...Rock Chalk !!
Enough said!
@AsadZ- There are only minor tweaks that I'd suggest for situational contests by & large, cause there's no way any of us can propose that Bill's system needs a "makeover" because it's just not true & we really don't know squat. IMO
& we really don't know squat. IMO Couldn't agree more. Sure we can second guess and use hindsight, but non of us have been to a practice or shoot around or in the locker room at halftime.
Maybe Self wanted to change up his D's in the tournament, but knew his younger squad couldn't perform for him like teams past?? I don't know I wasn't there.
We can assume this and that, but we all know what they say about it when you assume.
It's been a week now since KU lost. We have all speculated as to why KU lost, who is to blame, and so on.
It's been a rough week, playing if's and but's and the blame game. Basketball has continued to be played without Kansas, without North Carolina or Duke. It went on with teams like Dayton, Virginia and Kentucky. Where does that put Kansas?
It hurts to see a team like ours lose in the first weekend, it stirs up emotions of Bradley, Bucknell, and UNI, but it's not the end of the world, we need to look forward now, the past is just that the past. We can't change it without Doc and Marty, but we sure can complain about it.
So like any other hangover, lets get some fluids going, and move one with our day as rough as it may be.
Because if, if's and but's were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas.
@approxinfinity I'm just saying if the 08 title didn't happen the Bradley and Bucknell loses and the fans are on him more than they are now. No bonus from KU for winning the title can't get the extension he got either and his alma matter comes calling with a blank check from T Boone.
It becomes a domino effect. You change one thing and who knows what else changes along with it?
@JRyman well clearly my analogy works as you are both the entertainment system guy and the 10 conference title guy :) would you trade the one title Self won (ie erase Marios shot) for ten more conference titles?
So 20 straight conference titles and no national title since 88. Tough one.
Probably not but since that 08 title landed within the original 10 year span why does it have to go?
Heck let's open a can of worms now. Say that Mario's shot doesn't go. Does Self leave after that season for OKst? Then where would Kansas basketball be? He is getting all these great recruits down there and winning 6 straight conference titles while KU is and 8 seed in the tournament?
@approxinfinity I don't know how big is my tv? How powerful is my surround sound? How comfortable is my recliner?
Due to some of my health issues I do not like to fly as it causes some of the worst headaches you could imagine for about 48 hours. So I'd have to drive a long ways for any of those. So sitting in my recliner wouldn't be so bad.
First analogy that comes to my mind is would you trade your awesome home entertainment system / furniture in the den for a European vacation? The den might serve you well for 10 years, but that European vacation is the stuff of memories!
I'd rather go to the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone or the red wood forest than to Europe.
@wissoxfan83
Ok so you have this old pair of high tops. Their broke in they for just right you can play decent D in them hit a few jumpers but miss a few more threes than you'd like. But you can't dunk in them. So there's a new pair you can get that guarantee you to dunk just one time down at the Y. Now your D won't be as good, your jumper is gone and no one at the Y really wants you on their team like they did before. But you get to dunk one time.
What do you do? Keep or old shoes and become a legend at the Y or go for the new ones for that one dunk?
I went with the kid to make it hard. It wasn't meant to be easy. It was to make people really think. It's an apple to oranges comparison but it was made to really make you think about what the original question at the beginning of the thread asked.
I want to add this question for all that would trade 10 straight for one national title.
Would you trade your 10 year old ADHD child that makes you laugh, cry, makes you angry, amazes you and frustrates you for the senior class president that never gets in trouble you don't have to calm down or work with to become better????
Would you? You have to give up those ten years for just one year. Would you still?
It was said once or twice above about the perception of KU ball in the area. Sure with k-st and mizzu fans in the greater KC area they are going to point things out more. The same as it is in Omaha dealing with their fans and being the lone jayhawk fan around.
If you go to North Carolina you will hear wake forest fans, nc st fans and unc fans pile on duke for their early exits.
Go to Kentucky and they still have to hear about last years NIT first rnd out by Louisville fans after they won it all. Even though UK has beat them more times than not in the past ten years.
I am guessing ohio st is hearing about their early out to Dayton this year from not only Dayton fans but from Michigan and Michigan st fans too.
National perception about KU is based on an east coast biased media. I pointed out in another thread that duke has more early outs in the tournament than Kansas does in the past five years. But espn and bcs don't make it a story like they do Kansas.
Kansas doesn't get credit for a lot of things like three of the greatest basketball venues named for KU alum. That wilt played at KU. Sure UCLA can boast about some of their legendary players and coach, not to many other schools can.
My perception of Wisconsin basketball is they play D like a hockey team.
My perception of Villanova basketball is speedy guards and muscle in the middle.
My perception is my opinion, so it what espn and cbs has to say. It's their perception.
My perception of KU basketball is solid team year in and year out. A team to be reckoned with every year. Not only 10 straight conf titles but 25 and counting NCAA tournament appearances in a row, the longest such active streak.
Yes we all want KU to win the tournament but all it takes is one bad half and you go home. There are no re-dos or best ofs. It's win or go home. Sore as die hard fans we notice it more when KU loses early. Yes those loses hurt, some burn more than others too, but to give up something like ten years of greatness for just one shinning moment is not right.
To compare KUs streak to gonzagas is a joke. How many nba players did they have to go up against? Was there a Durant in the WCC? Griffin? Beasley? Smart? No. So it's not apples to apples.
At the beginning of March everyone was happy that KU got their 10th in a row. Now it's a bad thing. I don't get that, not one bit.
Also if you are a 1 or two seed you are more likely to be upset if you don't reach the final four or regional finals due to seeding. Was Kentucky beating WSU this year really an up set? Yes by seed it was but in the overall scheme if the game no.
KU was predicted by most to lose to New Mexico and test they lost to Stanford.
So I will ask. What's a better loss? To Stanford or by Dayton? If it's the team that beats you than losing to Stanford would be a better loss than loosing to Dayton.
If you say losing to a hot Dayton team you can't be upset by losing to VCU, they were hot and made the final four.
I love KU basketball. I wouldn't trade anything they've done for anything they didn't work for and deserve.
Coach K changed his philosophy and he has lost in the first round two of the past three years.
Calipari hasn't changed his and missed the dance last year.
I'd rather Self keep his philosophy and find a true point guard that will be around three or four years and be able to teach those behind him on the bench. One that is a team leader, a defensive stopper and can run the offense.
We don't need a bunch of three point shooters. Sure it worked for Dayton this year and for Iowa st at times too. But how'd it work for duke and creighton?
@dylans Surely no agent in his right mind told Smart to return while being a potential lottery pick.
I don't think he is an agent but I am guess T Boone Pickens might had a hand (in his wallet) in Smart staying one more year thinking OKst could get a conf title.
@dylans 2-3 years of Bill Self, Coach K, even Calipari will prepare these guys much better for the next level.
A lot of scouts have said that guys that have played for Calipari have shown little to no improvement under him. Most notably Anthony Davis, he didn't have a great rookie year and he is just now starting to come on offensively in his second year. John Wall has never done much in the league but win a dunk contest, and Rose scores a lot and take a lot of shots for a point guard.
I would have used Williams, Miller or even Wright over Calipari to get guys ready for the league, not just drafted high.
@truehawk93 Not sure we could have kept pace with Dayton's guards without a huge amount of turnovers. They were pesky guys got the Stanford bigs frustrated and in foul trouble. KU is deeper on the bench than Stanford but not sure I would have wanted KU to play Dayton the way they looked last night.
@VailHawk Make sure you have sand protection on your laptop or mobile device. That and that salt air can really cause some damage to an actual keyboard.
You may want to take your blogging to the Southwest, the air is dryer there.
@VailHawk You know with this whole internet thing you could move to South beach and still be connected??{[Sarcasm font]}
NO matter the score, no matter the time on the clock they don't get rattled, they don't get over confident. They keep playing their game.
They don't rush bad shots, they don't try to score to quickly when its not needed unless it's there. They just play very consistent from tip to buzzer.
If they are up 12 points with 10 minutes or up 2 with 58 seconds they just keep their heads, no panic. That's impressive. But they are an older team that has played a lot together.
They kept saying how there wasn't a first end pick on the Florida team, if they win the title that will just someones attention.
@dtdjayhawk Ok, I was with you until you said "Tharpe tries his absolute hardest ..." I have never seen a player under Self that I questioned his heart, desire, and effort more than Tharpe. Is my conclusion wrong there?
Not sure you are completely wrong, but he has shown his heart, when he gets benched, he doesn't sit an cry to the nearest reporter, he doesn't make excuses for his play. He shows great character by going back out there time and time again trying.
I do not believe he goes out there looking to fail or to just go through the motions. Therefore by reasonable deductions he is trying.
@icthawkfan316 I guess distraction would have been better use of wordage, but if you are distracting from the team you may become a cancer.
Though he hasn't been able to stick anywhere so one has to wonder if he is a head case or just can't get a long or fit in to a system.
@truehawk93 To me guys with heart go a lot further than talent in college.
Look Arizona and Kentucky is the only team left with a phenom freshman. Kentucky is there due to multiple freshman, Arizona is there because he has guys with heart on the team to keep things going. Duke, Syracuse and KU are all at home with a bunch of talent.
Stanford played with heart and they over came a talented KU team.
When losing hurts so bad you drop to your knees like Black did against Stanford, it shows he had heart, a lot of those guys just went and shook hands and walked off the floor.
Maybe long term projects aren't bad but there is no guarantee how long they stay or if they pan out, maybe if he stayed four years he would have the heart the size of Black.
Black not only was muscle on the court, but a leader and a teacher off of it to his teammates.
I'd rather have Tharpe who is a team player over any cancerous kid that can dribble better.
I have read threads that said he wasn't trying to win, or hasn't tried to win since 08. I have read that he is to stubborn to play other players, that he won't change his D or his offensive sets late in a game. He doesn't press enough.
Well thats what has gotten him 10 straight conference titles, an above 75% all time winning percentage.
I understand criticism, but to hindsight his decisions are ridiculous. Like any other coach in the land I am sure when he watched game film he makes notes about himself.
You don't change your starting lineup at tournament time unless you have an injury. You don't change your defense and offense at tournament time because it sounds fun. You stick to doing with what you know.
He coached these kids since August, and even last summer. He instilled in them his philosophies, his style of play, what he expects of them. If he changes that on them this late in the season does he really trust them? Or even himself?
Coaches screw up, yes. Players do too, even refs and fans. But to hear all the things I am reading and hearing about how bad a coach he was this year is complete and absolute nonsense.
I see a lot of people blaming Bill Self for this loss and for not doing this and doing this and being stubborn won't change his ways, plays the wrong guys, uses guys in the wrong way.
OK who, who is Kansas' next head coach if Bill Self can't get it done anymore?
Who is all I want to know that can recruit like Self, win like him and graduate players and be respected like coach Self?
Go
@drgnslayr-I've done some really good work in my life when PO'ed. Also made some damn big & regrettable mistakes.
Take out "work" replace with "drinking"
Been there done that
I can't blame a coach for a loss, he can't go out there and make lay ups, get steals and make the right pass.
What Coach Self has done was given his players to knowledge and tools to do all of those things.
I don't see why he has to change his coaching style when the ball just won't go through the net.
I see people say we needed to press earlier, sure makes sense in hindsight and away from the game, but do you want to run your players legs out from under them to early in the game? if you are not a a pressure team it is hard to apply pressure for long periods of time.
Look their height bothered us, coach Self can't stretch the players to new lengths, they made baskets. It wasn't our D we turned them over we got steals and stops, we just couldn't hit water if we fell out of Noah's Ark on day 32.
It happens, we all just need to take a collective deep breath, count to 10 and exhale and wait for next year and see what that brings.
Looking back on a year with lots of ups and downs.
We replaced all 5 starters with a pretty good nucleus of new comers. This kid from Memphis transfers in, some kid from Cameron that will be a project, a McDonalds all american. A local Kansas boy, and perhaps the biggest name to come out of high school last year.
We won out 10th straight Big12 regular season title, along the way found out that JoJo was amazing, and Black could play a whole game. Traylor was a spark of energy and that Ellis is so steady its almost not human.
On the down side our home winning streak came to an end, but a new one started. We lost to Okie St and Kstate on their floors, but no back flips on ours. We lost to Texas but got revenge bigger and better. We beat ISU twice this year lost in that pesky Big12 turny.
Found out Andrew could score as much as he wants but only when he wanted to??? Huggie bear got a $25,000 bonus for beating KU, maybe he can start shopping at the same place Al Davis got his sweat suits now?
KU was good this year, not great. We have no idea what next year will bring or who, but what we do know is, basketball will be played again. Kansas will be good, we will fall in love with some players and get mad at others. We wil praise Coach Self one week and question him the next. It's sports, it's the original reality TV. There is no script, there is no crystal ball, but thats why we watch, thats why they play the games on the court and not on paper.
Let our emotions run wild, screaming after a dunk and highfiving a stranger, to the lows or lows where they catch a young rabid fan on TV with tears in his eyes, but still with a glimmer of hope.
It's basketball, it's the game we love and hate at times. It brings out the worst and the best in us as fans, but we never wafer, from our team we don't leave them to go cheer on someone else next season. We are KU fans. We are Jayhawks through and through, live and die and bleed out that Crimson and blue.
Rock Chalk Jayhawk
Thank you 2013-14 players coaches and fans like me.
What a ride, what a ride.......
What gets me is that Ku takes a hit all the time for an early exit in the tournament, sure there was Bradley, Bucknell, UNI and VCU. Only two of those were in the first round.
Recently Duke, has lost in the first round to Lehigh and Mercer along with an 07 loss to VCU in the round of 64. Why don't they get the moniker or early outs?
Now to add to it this year the Ohio st university and Duke go out early and Syracuse in the rnd of 32.
I don't want to hear how KU doesn't have to play a single seeded team now til elite 8, cause they don't seed the teams, they don't play for other teams. KU wins theirs and when Syracuse looses thats KU's fault how?
As much as those early round loses have killed me in the past, it's the ones to other teams that make me laugh and yet wonder why they don't get the same scrutiny that KU does???
My wife and kids were in St Louis all week enjoying spring break and they actually went to the shoot around yesterday, they said Mason's dunk to end practice was really cool and unreal.
In 1988 my dad got to see Kansas practice/shoot around in Lincoln before their first game. In 2008 I got to go to their first round game in Omaha.
We all know how those years ended up, so I am hoping my Wife, two daughters and son carry that same magic with them.
@jaybate 1.0 Doesn't he need to pass the ball and have at least 4 assist?
I'm not winning after day one. I am thinking about taking my bracket and going to another group.
wahhhhhhhhh wahhhhhhh wahhhhhhh
Oh never mind that's to much work
I will simplify my reasoning for liking Andrew Wiggins over a lot of OADs.
He's a player. He's not arrogant or selfish. He just plays the game like he's been there before.
That's why he didn't go to Kentucky
This is my opinion another one at that as to why the '08 Jayhawks get over looked.
They were a balanced team, there was no stand out like an Anthony Davis on the team. They played like a team, it was 7 guys deep.
I also think so much hype that year was about Rose and Memphis that KU got lost in it.
Is it fair? No. Just reality.
So there is now over a full page of entries.
Who has the best bracket name though?
@Crimsonorblue22 I have one shirt like that and it confuses the he!! out of husker fan. love it!!!
@DinarHawk The reason the '08 KU squad is over looked is becuase KU is West of the Mississippi river.
@drgnslayr I have a hard time wearing anything red here in Nebraska, cause when Ido all my friends and family think I have changed my alliance and went back to being a Husker.
That aint ever gonna happen!!!!!!
@konkeyDong Well dang it anyway.
I did laugh at CBS trying to say Duke had been so many straight years, but they worded it as Coach K has made it so many straight years. Because he missed a year of coaching due to his back and they were terrible that year and didn't make it in.
Nobody talked about the KU streak, I think it gets lost because of a few bad loses here and there, but still in the dance.
@Crimsonorblue22 who plans a wedding during March???!!
In Nebraska no one schedules them from August thru November.
Ours was mid April, after the Final 4, no football it was perfect.
@Crimsonorblue22 I'm surprised they put him ahead of every ones new golden boy Hoiberg.
But glad to see him at #1. Way to go Coach Manning!!!
It really is, the best time of the year. It's March madness, it's the pinnacle of college basketball.
Upsets, Cinderella's, fanatic finishes, 68 teams one goal.
I mean this is the time of year when a cocky Mislose team lost to a 15 seed. Duke too.
It's emotional, it's great its bad its frustrating and cheerful all in the matter of an hour.
This is when power teams that aren't supposed to make it past the third game make the NT game.
This is when Kentucky goes to the NIT every now and then. Or When Indiana refuses to play in the CBI.
This is the best time of the year because since 1990 KU has been playing this weekend. It's the longest stretch ever (and lets face it the only reason they missed 1989 was due to the NCAA holding them out, not the comittee).
This is the most wonderful time of year.