@JayHawkFanToo and @Crimsonorblue22 the in game announcer called it a "man jam"
Here's a clip with some bench reaction and sound.
JRyman
1097 posts
@JhawkAlum look I get it. Everyone is upset that we had a close game with Harvard. I get that people aren't happy about Diallo not playing at the 5 for 30 mins a game.
I get that people want to voice their complaints and angst as the season goes on.
One of the things I was trying to get at was to look at it another way and not just half empty.
Look after the MSU game I raised questions and had opinions. I'm not saying one can't. Just saying look at it in a different way.
You aren't the first nor will you be the last that I've thrown that out there on about being at practice. If I say something that sounds like I've been there then please call me out on it.
Checks and balances.
It's all good to disagree. If not then why is anyone here? Is that passive aggressive? Nope but that was
Anything between *** and *** sarcasm font.
@JhawkAlum nothing passive aggressive to what I said. But it's arguable depending on wait side you see it from so I'll stop with it here.
I have stated many times to many other posters the same thing about practice. We aren't there so how are we to know who should be playing in certain situations. Who should be starting against certain teams. What offense we should run.
We can all voice opinions but to pass ten off like a fact or knowledge of the situation is a farse at best.
I don't know if you've played sports or at what level. But there are some guys are gamers, they aren't great prescribe guys but they kill it in games. There's other guys who show up to practice as all Americans but in a game and under the bright lights the faulter.
There are guys that are great teammates on teams and guys who don't mesh well with his fellow players.
A coaches job or his staff is to figure out who is who. In a young season they rely on practice die to not having enough game film to represent each and every player in a position to get playing time.
As a fan, short for fanatic, I do get to yell at my tv, shake my head and ask why. But as someone who has played, coached and worked camps I get it. I get that there are things we don't see or know. Things we don't even have a clue about. Any good coach is t going to show his hand I. A post game interview or on his weekly radio show. It's called gamesmanship.
That could also be a reason coach self isn't playing the young ones is due to hiding them from scouting reports? I don't know. Just an opinion as I have no insider knowledge or contact with coach.
For all those players you listed and to why they'd didn't play?? I don't know I was offering an idea an opinion. Then again it's coach Selfs system maybe they just didn't want to follow it his way? Of they came to KU they knew what they were getting into. If they didn't then wow that's on them for just guessing how it was going to be.
@Crimsonorblue22 I'm pretty special too. Just ask half the posters here.
@Crimsonorblue22 special indeed
@JhawkAlum or perhaps they under perform at practice after he says these things?
Maybe coach says these things to open the door for them and then they go to practice and underperform or when they do get in the games they forget what they are to do?
I don't know I have never been to a Bill Self coached practice. Have you?
@JayHawkFanToo to add to the play of the Harrison twins was a knock on their basketball IQ more than their ability.
I read this after their freshman year before they decided to stay another year. It came from that un-named NBA gm.
But as I watched them play last year I saw that a lot. They missed key passes on set plays and so on. A lot of the time late in games they dribbled around playing one on one and missing open players in the corner for an open shot just so they could take their own. They hit a lot of them and that just built their egos.
Maybe we are all looking at this wrong? Maybe it's Devonte that gets the bench for one game?
Frank and Wayne at the 1-2. Svi at the three maybe Perry? If Oerry starts at the three then KU get real big with two guys in Hunter and Lucas.
Yeah well I didn't think so either. Just throwing it up against the wall and see what sticks.
@Statmachine let's be honest in a few directions. One non of the walk ins that work hard and are upper classmen play the 4 or 5 spot. So that's a voided argument.
Number 2 there is a talent drop off between Diallo/Bragg over Traylor/Lucas/Mickelson. And a Grand Canyon in difference of talent between Diallo/Bragg vs Manning/Self again making that comparison void.
Everyone who plays college ball works hard. Is that what you want me to say? From the number 1 recruit in the land to the last walk on to make it at the lowest ranked school.
They all want to play. They all work hard.
Some are talented. Some are super talented. That hard work that some put in might be physical and or mental. Some guys get it and others think just cause they run faster jump higher they should be enabled to play.
If Self wants to see hard work and you want to play well that's on said player to work hard. Senior. Freshman. The number 90th ranked player or the #5 ranked player. If you want in his stem you better beat the guy out in front of you each and every day. Both physically and mentally. Learn the system. Run the system as you are coached and play Team ball not individually. If you want to be an individual play tennis.
@Statmachine He hasn't had this many upper classmen in a few years.
Cliff was already setting his sights on his pro career and was never fully buying into Selfs scheme.
I think of Diallo and Bragg work hard and buy in they will get their minutes.
As for Diallos pay check if Self is worried about that then well damn that isn't good for KUs future at all.
As for lil Manning and Self playing I never brought up walk ons.
@Statmachine usually agree with a lot you post but to say that 5 star guys want to play right away and to recruit 4 star guys.
Well I imagine they want to start right away too. 4 star, 3 star and even the two star recruit wants start right away.
That is indeed the reason they all play the game.
I think Self is going to start Hunter, throw him out there and see what happens. He's given Jamari and Landon a chance to show what they can do. Now it's Hunters turn.
I'm guessing unless KU goes for 64 in the first half and Humter has a triple double at the break the Mext game Bragg gets a start and then Diallo will get his.
This will give them all a chance to play with fresh starters, play from the get go. Get reps in practice. Give them all their own personal showcase if you will.
This will not only show each guy where they stand but will show their teammates what they can do. It also will show coach Self who he can and can not trust in the starting role.
As for us fans it will just give us more to talk, argue, bicker and over analyze about.
@nuleafjhawk see I knew there was a way to get people to all commit to NOT winning a national title.
@wrwlumpy nope. Not much talk about #2. More about Lucas and Diallo, pace of play and so on.
@jaybate-1.0 Man I had to go back and retread all these empty threads and couldn't believe that you forgot this one:
Would you give up Allen Field House forever and ever as our home gym just to be guaranteed a National Title.
@HighEliteMajor doesn't pain me to see Self's quotes at all.
In all actuality it shows that he knows what he's doing by getting his freshman ready to play with in the team aspect of the game and play his system and not just running very basic offense sets to fit them.
When the best players play in system good things happen. When the best players play out of system it shows they aren't ready so you have to play the best available for that system until the mental part matches the physical part for younger players.
The season is very very young. A lot of time left to get these younguns ready to play for conference ball and adjust to Self's system.
@drgnslayr agreed
That's why my coach friend practices them throughout practice and without notice.
So players get it built into their minds and bodies the different types of FTs.
Had another coach tell me years ago as a team you want to be over 70% on the year. 75% is great. 80% wins you games and anything over that is icing on the cake. Teams that shoot high percentages over 80% win a lot of games even if they are less talented cause all they have to do is keep it close.
He added that a talented team will win because they win it on the floor and not the line. But look at more talented teams in close games and how the pressure at the line gets to them.
@wissoxfan83 yes all late in the game too. After the first miss I was mad. After the second I was stressed. The third about killed me. I did make three out of four in OT but too little too late.
My couch told me in film after I apologized to the team for my misses that it's a team game and everyone missed something in that game. That no one has ever played the perfect game, coached it, or officiated it either.
The older I get the more that rings true.
Man they have it rough up there in winter, I mean if you have to run a snow blower with a helmet on. Ouch
This last game Kansas shot a team percentage of 52% from the stripe, you don't win many games shooting that horrific from there. It was worse in the win against Loyola at 46%, not as glaring in a win by 33 points. The best game of the season percentage wise for KU was at 85.7% against UCLA but then again KU was hot from anywhere on the court that game. It's second highest percentage came against Michigan St at 80%, and a mark in the loss column.
Are free throws important in winning? Yes they are, more so than their percentages as you can see above. Even though a higher percentage usually tilts the odds in your favor of winning. There is more to it than just makes and misses though. It's how you get to the line as well. Are you driving the lane or taking it strong to the rim? If so then you are getting them in trouble and are able to get two shots guaranteed at the line.
If you are getting fouled out top and are taking all 7 fouls to get to the line for a one and one then you are only prolonging the game due to inbounds and not guaranteed points. Making the front end of a one on one gives you one point and allows you the opportunity for a second. Missing that first one only hurts your percentage by al little instead of going 0 for 2 as it could be kept, and really killing percentages of teams and players a like.
The free throw is almost the easiest shot in basketball, their are no shot blockers, body contact or changes in distance. It's the same shot every time, 15 feet away three people to your left, three to the right.
After talking to a High school coach this weekend about it he opened my eyes a bit about how the free-throw changes for each player in different parts of the game. Are they having a good or bad night from the field? If they are struggling to make a shot from the floor, then they begin to question their mechanics as they shoot FT's. As he put it, "It should be muscle memory from the line, but way to much mental ilk." How beat up are they when they get to the line? Did they get fouled going to the rim hard or was it a touch foul? If they got beat on a bit it can affect their ability to shoot straight, maybe they are getting sore? Are they tired? Easier to take that shot late in the first quarter than the 4th. Legs are fresh, arms are full of blood.
This each said he has changed how he shoots FT's in practice. 15 years ago he had them shoot FT's at the beginning and end of practices. Now he has them do it throughout practice as many times as he can. Gives them a more game like feel to it, even during drills and not scrimmages. It also serves as a break in practice, much like a game you can use the free-throw as a break and resting period for your players without substitution or timeouts. You can even coach them up from the sideline during a game for two of them.
In the past three seasons since implementing this way of practicing FT's his teams average has went up by 7% and the past two years has been over 80% for the season. This season after two games as a team they are shooting 92% and he has three players at 100% with more than 6 attempts for each of those players.
Another aspect of the free-throw is the "and one". Are you able to finish strong when you are fouled and able to close the lead or extend your won lead? The old fashioned three point play can be a killer to the opposing team especially late in the game. You made your shot, added a fouls onto one of hitter players and you got a free point as well.
Now the Free-throw itself is staying on your toes, using you legs, keeping your elbow in, reaching your fingers into the rim like a cookie jar on your follow through and watching the rim and not the ball as you release it. When you watch the ball you have taken your eye off the target, when you stay flat footed or fall back on a FT you are either going to leave it short or try and over compensate and use your arms more and shoot flat and long. Also by falling you back you make it easier for the defender the block you out.
Is the Free throw tough shot? For Shaq it was, was it form and function or mental?
My old HS coach used to tell me to clear my mind when I was stepping to the line. Not to worry about what just happened to get the foul or what the score was, just take the shot. If only it were that easy, I was always worried about the score especially if the game was close or if we were behind.
A little story ab out FT's and I will stop. We were in a tight game and it was a rough game. Went into over time. On an inbounds play down a point with less than 5 seconds to play, we were under our own basket, the ball came to me and before I could gather it I was knocked down and the ball went out of bounds, as it went off of a defenders foot. The refs didn't call a foul and gave them the ball. I was pissed, even told a ref that he missed not one but two calls on that play.
As we were walking back to the locker rooms that ref is in the hallway and he looks at me, and he had done a lot of our games that season so we knew each other. I reached out to shake his hand as a good sport and I had cooled down, and that's when he said something that struck me in the heart and has stayed with me ever since and why I value FT's so much. "Ryman I might have missed a call or two tonight, but if you would have hit the front end of three one and ones you guys would have won the game in regulation." He then shook my had and said we were even and no hard feelings.
Gonna open a can of worms here.
What would Fortes roll be if he had indeed come to KU?
My two cents on playing freshman out of the gate.
What is the team need? That being do they need a position to be filled? Do they have a large amount of upper classmen with in game experience? Did they graduate a lot of players? Have players transfer? Injuries?
Are coaches trying to ride the Kentucky and now Duke blueprint of playing young guns and see what happens? Roll the dice sort of speak.
I do believe that every school that plays freshman X amount of mins bs another school that plays a freshman X amount of mins either greater or less is based in the need of position for that team.
If Landon didn't redshirt and Jamri didn't have to sit his freshman year and Humter didn't transfer in then yes I do believe Bragg and Diallo would be getting more playing time. But there is a back log on the block at KU.
It could also be that Self is saving them for the stretch run. Like what the Timberwolves are doing in the NBA with their rookie big man. The coach stating that the college game and the NBA game and season is a lot harder. Same is the change from highschool and college.
These are just my opinions about it and giving other points of views than what's been stated before.
FTs make them #%%£|€{ $)(/&; <>{}#***^%>
@Statmachine Even Chaminade (1-6) got a win over Cal State San Marcos (3-3).
That has to help our strength of schedule out.
@jaybate-1.0 Honestly I have not watched them play a game. Highlights and have read post game AP wire.
But from what I've seen is I don't thinks he's coaching the team. Just letting Simmons do what he wants.
Remember there were a lot of people that wanted Selfnto let Woggins off the "team" leash to show off his skills.
Then came the game @WV and KU wasn't playing well and Self let him off the leash for what 41 and we lost.
Then people said it was Wiggins selfish play that cost KU the game. Or that Self sabotaged himself by letting Wiggins do what he wanted.
I just don't know of Simmons has enough around him talent wise to keep up with him and help him out. He may put up the best Freshman scoring numbers in years but will he make the NCAA tournament?
@HighEliteMajor if all you are looking for is the negatives you are only going to find negatives.
If unwanted to waste my time reviewing a game that has no relevance at this juncture in time I could find everything bad that Humter did. Never focusing on any positives and make him look like the bench player he is.
If you want to argue that Hunter and Braggs production would go up if they had Traykors mins go for it it. It's a void point. They aren't playing those minutes. Maybe they aren't practice players and if a coach bases his playing time on how a player produces at practice then I guess they need to work harder in practice.
If you want to argue that I don't put in the time and effort to find all the things wrong Jamari does then you'd win cause I'm not going to knit pick at it. I'm not going to look for every negative a player does.
I guess I'm I'm just a blind fool for following coach Self and not questioning him. I guess I'm ill informed for not following you and believing in everything you say and not questioning you.
Maybe Jamari was at your local gym and didn't pick you for his team or he out played you so wildly you were laughed out of the gym. I don't know. But your über dislike for Traylor is well known and documented. We get it.
Does anyone have the number to the Kansas Humane society? There's a man beating a dead horse again.
Wear Crimson and Blue and Rock Chalk
@JayHawkFanToo I was just sharing the tweet knowing that it was on this site. So people could see it.
Didn't mean to get involved just letting people get the whole story.
@JayHawkFanToo. This is in the thread when he was suspended.
@Texas-Hawk-10 surprised the NCAA hasn't stepped in to make sure all schools follow the same rules to protect the "student" athlete.
I do like that as a prerequisite for one to have their Jersey in the rafters. The degree!
@drgnslayr no trophies here either. Some medals in a box somewhere. I assume anyway.
I have a few scars from back then and well my headaches but I wouldn't change a thing about my past or how I played.
I might have some grainy VHS game tapes by those medals?
Anyone got a VHS player laying around? Show my kids that dad...ah never mind they won't care.
@drgnslayr ewe yeah there is that too.
Solid point! Just gonna keep those packed away.
You know until I was great!!
@drgnslayr my wife won't let mine come out of the storage box it's been in since before we got married.
Guess it will be worth more if it still smells like HS?
Just saw that Davidson will not retire/hang up Curry's jersey until he has his degree.
http://espn.go.com/espn/now?nowId=1-14284125 ↗
This is unlike Texas that hung Durants Jersey after only one semester of classes.
Perry should watch some Creighton film of Doug McDermotts play his junior and senior years.
He could post up, use his body to crest space to get a shot off.
He could play the wing and find the lanes to get open to receive a pass and be open for a jumper without a dribble.
He moved well without the ball to get open. It worked for his game but also drew defenses to him to open up his teammates either in the paint or on the outside.
I really hope BG doesn't transfer, hopefully he is a man of his word or should I say tweet? And stay at KU tough it out and become and alum.
This kid has a great stroke, passion, even flare. In the words of Crash Davis about Nuke Laroosh, He has a million dollar arm and a 5 cent brain.
In a way that in a round about way sums up BGs time at KU. Able to shoot at anytime but yet doesn't think about his actions.
Just hope when his 6 is up he comes out under control, with the understanding of his role and kicks some serious a$$ for this team.
@ralster I'll add Adrian Peterson who not only tore his ACL but his MCL and PCL. He has come back just as good as he was before that injury.
20 years ago he would have never played again let alone walked without a limp.
Medical magic has come a loooong way
@wrwlumpy can someone show those to Perry? He even smiled after that Oop from Frank added in a high five. Say whaaat?
The game is fun Perry enjoy it
@ralster Aaron Craft would foul out in 7 mins of game clock this season. His ability to play D was souly based on his hand checks on guys hips keeping them from turning the corner.
I spoke with a college coach that coached against him his sophomore year. He said before the game at a few timeouts and at halftime he reminded the officials his D was illegal. He was upset because Craft didn't foul out and still had three steals. He also said when he did get beat he had a lot of help in the paint to bail me out so he could over reach on D whe he wasn't hand checking. To hear this coach talk about it would make you laugh.
But yes back to his free throw blunder. Hahahahahahaha still makes me chuckle because his basketball IQ was so great according to everyone that worked at ESPN.
@ralster especially how TRob got after Sullinger. If he came at Lucas that way TRob might scare Landon off the court.
@Statmachine that's truly what makes watching this team play so much fun. And not so stressful.
Perry having an off night? Oh wait Wayme will pour in 25.
Wayne not shooting well? Frank will get to the rack.
Devonte having a rough night? Jamari and now Cheick will get after that loose ball and dive in the floor.
There is not a poster child for this teams except the team photo itself. They rely on each other, support each other and most importantly play for each other. Be it the bench guys getting minimal minutes, they give it all or the starters getting it done even on tired legs.
When the break the huddle they should all yell, "TEAM!"
I'm gonna get my cah down at Hahvahd yahd
@HighEliteMajor Ahhh OK no worries. All a good
Rock chalk
@HighEliteMajor I've never told anyone to stop posting. Just to try and not be such a negative Nancy about what they say over and over and over again.
@joeloveshawks It's not just Perry, Hunter, Landon and Jamari have all tried to finess the ball in the hole instead of slamming it home. That's why inthe MSU game they missed so many bunnies.
Soft finishes don't draw fouls. If anything they get blocked or altered. Go hard to the rim. If you get fouled you get a chance at the line plus a short breather plus you get their guys in foul trouble. Especially the way they are calling the game this year.
Heck just like last night when Wayne got the alley-opp dunk or Jamari had his out back dunk in the first half it got the crowd into the game.
All of CDs dunks got the crowd on their feet.
@JayHawkFanToo my mistake. He was just a very quiet three point shooter.
I apologize
@Jyhwk_InTigrtwn Don't stop posting now!! Heck it can only get better. I mean does anyone wrote "the old man and the sea" their first time out? NO.
So keep reading keep posting and have fun.
@wissoxfan83 he really had no choice. He had the shot lined up shoulders square. Good lift.
By no choice meaning that Hinrik passed as a senior of taking a shot. Maybe the play was designed to go to Lee but he was never known as a great three point shooter.
That's what I never understood.
@wissoxfan83 Unfortunately I remember that game all to well due to those missed FTs over Lee's shot getting tapped away.