I said before and I will say it again, Foster is the real deal.
JayHawkFanToo
13427 posts
I still hate Zenger!!!
The only game I have been able to watch so far is the UK game and it is the one I would have preferred not to watch. We have 3 more games that will be blacked out...how more stupid can it get?
I am not sure if most KU fans know but it is not only the men's football and basketball games that get blacked out in the State of Kansas and the KC Metro area, all KU sports on ESPN3 get blacked out including women's basketball, volley ball, soccer and track and field. Zenger needs to lose his job over this; it has to be the worst contract ever, I have tried to figure out how I can make it worse and I cannot come up with anything; it is as bad as it gets...all the while I can watch all the MU, KSU and WSU games, some even on ESPN3 without a problem.
The voters showing a lot of respect for KU. After the UK pasting I figured KU would rank no higher than 15.
Yes and no. KU has a gigantic bull's eye whenever they play on the road; remember the red-outs, black-outs, white-outs teams have when playing KU? They do not seem to have these type of hype for other teams. The Big 12 is going to be super competitive this year and I would think a 14-4 conference record (KU's last season) would win the conference; heck, maybe even a 13-5 might. Five Big 12 teams (50%) are now ranked in the top 25; no other conference comes even close.
I have seen Svi play and yes his passes are crisp and he does not hold the ball, this is what the 2 does; his dribbling is not up to speed to bring the ball up court against the press, which is what the opposing team would do. Not too many 6'8" players can play PG, yes, Magic did it but he was one of a kind, had a bigger body and strength to protect the ball and had played at that position his entire life. I would say play Svi at the 2 and let him distribute the ball from that position and move Selden to SF. Just my 2 cents.
I agree. Coach Self is too good to let one game define the season. The conference is extremely competitive this year, but to quote Rick Flair, to be the Champ you have to beat the Champ...and KU is still the Champ.
Too bad we don't get to play UK early next year, when KU hopefully has several returning starters, experience and extra practice and will have played in the World University games...a lot like UK this year. Hopefully the game against Florida will have a better outcome this time around. Florida is trying to replace 4 starting seniors and much like KU, it having trouble integrating the younger players into the rotation. They just lost to UL Monroe, so obviously are not the team that went undefeated in conference, lost only 2 away games to ranked teams and lost in the Final Four to eventual Champion UConn.
The big 12 is shaping out to be the toughest conference again. WVU is 5-0 and just beat #17 and defending champion UConn.
The latest Bracketology projects the Big 12 having 7 teams in, which at 70% matches last year's record percentage. As comparison, the Big 10 and the ACC each has 8 teams but the Big 10 has 14 teams (57%) and the ACC 15 (53%), so the percentage is much smaller. Other conferences include the PAC 12 with 6 out of 12 teams (50%) and the SEC 4 of 14 (29%). Nobody is even close to the Big 12...and the seven conference teams do not even include West Virginia.
I guess you missed the last line of my response to your original post...
It could be one of many things such as missed class, missed assignment, poor practice or another issue that got resolved...who knows. However, I am certain Coach Self would not have played him just to bow to OAD pressure, he is just not that type of person.
"I looked at that Florida game as thoroughly embarrassed. Wiggins made a flurry of threes in the last minute. I know Florida was good but we were not very competitive that game and looked like the KU JV playing FLorida."
I guess you missed the part where KU started 4 freshmen and one sophomore against a Florida team that was playing at home. was favorite to win the National Title and started 4 Seniors and one sophomore and yet KU got within 4, lost by 6 and outscored them in the second half by 9...I just wished UK would have embarrassed us like that.
"And its fair WEATHER fan!"
Really? that is the best you can come up? Color me impressed; maybe I should have use "band-wagon" fan instead and since KU is always good, you would be aboard just about all the time on the KU basketball wagon...or until one bad game happens.
"A simple switch to MLB's system will removed the loathsome OAD that is ruining this game and let us enjoy our teams again without fear of guys leaving early and without fears of whoever is the best recruiter hoarding the best players like is happening now."
And how exactly you suggest the NCAA achieves this when it is NOT and NCAA rule, it is an NBA rule?
"And to top it all off, I just heard KU gave up 430 yards to some kid from OU, costing Melvin Gordon his record for yards in a game! Yes, I'm a Badger football fan too!"
Yes, you are a true Badger fan indeed, since you have lived through years and years of Badger basketball underachievement and continue to support them and yet you bolt after one bad basketball game by KU. Apparently it hurts you more that your beloved Badger football record lasted, what? ... all of one week? than KU being at the perceiving end of said record. True KU fans will continue to follow our programs even when they get thumped by OU or when they win the Orange Bowl and end up with the best record in college football. Call us crazy, but we are true KU fans after all...
You really should be posting here... ↗
Good post and I agree with all your point except perhaps the one on Oubre. A I mentioned in previous post, I understand that Oubre's dad told Coach Self to be tough on Kelly and not give him any special treatment and if necessary, he might stay an extra year. This leads me to believe that there might have been an off-court issue that had Kelly playing only a few minutes the game before. Aslo, IMHO, Oubre was KU's best player against UK.
On a better note, maybe a less than optimal team this year means that lot of the players will come back and we will have an experience team like we did in '08...and that turned out rather well. Also, don't forget that next year, the team will have not only months of extra practice but it will play in the World University Games representing the USA against world class competition in July of 2015 and will start the season a lot better prepared than this year..
"I pity the fool" - Mr. "T"
I hope KU puts a 30-40 point beating on Rider and the players get the bad taste of the UK loss of their systems. I understand practices have not been going the way Coach Self wants and this game will tell us a lot about the team as a team and also the individual players.. Maybe a refresher course by the Marine Corps instructors is on order.
We have to keep in mind that KU went from playing a super experienced, senior laden team in 2011-2012 to very inexperienced teams that at one time started 4 freshmen last season and this season has already had 4 freshmen on the floor at the same time. UK, on the other hand, for all the talk about their OADS has an experienced team with 4 sophomores and 2 juniors that started or played heavy minutes last season and have Final Four experience, in addition to their highly touted Freshman class.
I am frankly surprised by your post. I did not think a Jayhawk fan could write one like yours.
" Getting thoroughly embarrassed at Florida was my first inkling that this was not going to be a great era in KU basketball. "
I would like you to explain how exactly KU got "thoroughly embarrassed " by Florida. KU lost the game by 6 point and actually outscored Florida by 9 in the second half while starting 4, that is correct FOUR freshmen against a veteran and experienced Florida team that was favorite to win the the tournament and was playing at home? Having said that, the UK loss was embarrassing.
"They're asking us fans to invest emotional energy into following this team that will look drastically different next season."
No one is asking you to emotionally invest on any team; true fans invest in their teams because this what true fans do, in good times and in bad times. The good times only fans are called fair-wheather fans and you seem to be the textbook definition. We are 2 games into the season, that is right...TWO games and you have already given up?
"Major sports leagues have taken measures to ensure competitive balance,"
You are forgetting that college sports are not professional sports where the League can impose salary caps, but unfortunately college athletes are not paid (at least not official) so that option does not apply. Do you actually believe that the NCAA can tell a student where he can or cannot attend school? How would you suggest the NCAA ensures competitive balance? The system is what it is and either you learn to take advantage of it or you get left behind. Calipari has mastered the system and every other programs is desperately trying to catch up....or at least until the law catches up wit Calipari, if he is indeed breaking it, or as lawyers say, it is not whether he is guilty, it is about what you can prove.
"Most of you know that I have a deep passion too for Wisconsin. And the contrast between the two programs is stark this season. One blue chip recruit on the whole team that was a missed shot away from knocking off UK. A veteran laden team. Frank Kaminsky said playing in the NBA sounds boring, so he came back for another season instead of getting picked in the 1st round like he would have. Players contributing to the team who redshirted a year. Happens almost every year, and happened again this week. "
I would very respectfully suggest that you go back to cheering for Wisconsin and forget KU altogether. You can cheer for Bo Ryan, one the biggest underachievers, and a team that last season finally made it to the Final Four for the first time since when...2000? Maybe we will see you in the Final Four in 2028? By then we will probably have another dozen Conference Titles and hopeful;ly more than one National Title as well.
@wissoxfan83, please be assured that this nothing personal and I would post the same thing to any other member that posts something like you did. Best of luck following Wisconsin. RCJHGKU
P.S. We will see you next game?
"Bill Self has never cultivated the mid-range shot as part of his game plan. I first noticed this during the 08 season, when it seemed the whole offense was 3 pointers and alley-oops."
I am curious, what do you think the percentage/distribution of 2-point and 3 point shots should be? 50-50? 70-30? 90-10?
You described a "perfect storm"scenario. Is it possible? YES; is it likely? NO. Good exercise though.
Don't discount Coach Self's ability; he will uncover some surprises soon.
" I thought Frank was actually one of the bright spots for KU. "
You and I must have watched different games.
I feel your pain. I constantly see members indicating that Calipari is not a good coach; however, every list I have seen that ranks top college coaches, has Calipari ranked in the top 10 and most in the top 5. As I have said before, underestimate Calipari at your own risk.
Maybe we don't agree with his methods (me, me, me), or don't like his personality (me, me, me) but it is hard to argue with the results.
The answer to Frank Mason's issue is easy. He was volume shooter and scorer in HS and he still has that mentality. At the UK game he kept driving to the basket, drawing a crowd, and instead to passing the ball to the open players, as the game plan called for, he tried scoring over the tall UK trees and we all know how that turned out.
If I were Coach Self. I would sit him in front of a screen and have him watch footage of RussRob. He also came to KU as a scorer and when he finally embraced his role as a PG/ball distributor/game manager, he became one of the better PGs in recent memory and a crucial component of the '08 Championship team; without his steady play KU likely does not win it all in '08.
The new polls don't come out until next Monday. Look for KU to drop 10 places.
I believe you have it right. As I indicated in my post, Coach Self gave a "diplomatic" answer. It could have started with KU not showing enough interest and that got him upset with KU and made statements about not wanting to play at KU...which in turn turned KU off.
Come on Jayhawk fans, it is not the end of the world. Yes, the game was not even close but then KU played well below average where Kentucky played the opposite and it happened to be in the same game.
If you take all the games both team will play this season and you found the average, then in a scale of:
1 - Well below average
2 - Below average
3 - Average
4 - Above average
5 - Well above average
I would say that UK played between a 4.5 and KU played a solid 1. This is not going to happen every game for either team as statistics suggest that play will revert to the mean over a number of games. Maybe at Tournament time KU plays a 4 to 5 and UK a 1 to 2 and then we might have a different outcome. I ma confident that Coach Self will right the ship and I pity Rider next Monday, I believe KU will take its frustration on them and it will not be pretty.
I meant to address this item in my reply to @HighEliteMajor . The truth is that none of us know why Oubre played only 4 minutes in the UCSB game. I understand his dad told Coach Self not go easy on him, and it is possible that he missed classes or slacked off in practice and he had to ride the pine. It is big assumption to imply that he started the UK game just because of the pressure of playing McDonald AA; Coach Self is not known for bending to pressure and I seriously doubt this was the case. Just my opinion.
Did you see my post on Cauley-Stein? The dude did not want to play at KU, most people familiar with the local HS sports scene in Olathe knew that.
I was wrong, you are not better than that...
I read your entire post several times and you make several excellent point; however, I have a disagreement on a couple of them.
On items 2-5 you appear to indicate that Coach Self had a plan and then he didn't, particularly when you quote him about the "game plan crap." I believe you are misrepresenting what he was trying to say. Coach Self does have system and a game plan that consists of doing what they do in practice. The comment in question was made in reference to reporters asking him repeatedly before the game if he was going to change his plan, and he always indicated that KU has a plan and will stick to it and will not change for just one team. In other words, you do what you have done before, and that by and large, has worked rather well before. The drive to pass was exactly part of the plan that you indicate he did not have, and while the concept was good, in practice the guards kept driving and trying to shoot over the trees and obviously it did not end up well; 4 assist total is an indication of a team not passing the ball. As far as throwing the ball inside, the ideas was for our forward to get inside position behind the defender using quickness (many posters in this forum suggested the same thing), receive the pass and score, obviously the UK players did well holding the inside position and when they were beaten, another one would come from behind and block the shot The height inside proved to be too much; KU actually had more offensive rebounds that UK but could not capitalize on second chances, even missing on a few follow up, point blank dunks or getting the ball rejected; I can't think of a game where the opposing team had 11 blocks, can you?
This is just my opinion, and it is just that, a subjective personal opinion. It does not mean your points are not valid, it simply says we see them differently, that's all.
On point 9, I find it ironic that Cauley-Stein's mom would make such comment; maybe she should have talked to her son. Anyone that lives in Olathe and knows kids that attend High School (he went to Olathe North West) knows that he made it very clear that KU was not in the list of schools he wanted to attend, and it would have truly been a waste of time to recruit a player, even a highly ranked local one, that had no interest in your program. I believe Coach Self was very diplomatic answering the question. By the way, I know several people whose kids, knew him in HS and all though he was an arrogant a-hole, not that it changes his skill set, but makes him a lot less likable and a potential future disruption in the locker room. Again, this is based on conversations with many kids that knew him in High School.
Having said that, nothing takes away the sting of witnessing perhaps the worse loss in as far as I can remember.
Let me preface my post by pointing out that Jaybate's post is based on the speech given to the Nation by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the wake of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
I find it in extreme poor taste to use the President's address to the Nation after the Pear Harbor attack in which thousands of American lives were lost to make a point about a basketball. game...a basketball game...particularly when the anniversary of the attack is less than 3 weeks away.
Jaybate, you are more than capable to write your own speech, please don't take take a speech that was given in the wake of the most deadly attack on our country by a foreign power to that date, and one that trigger our entry to WWII that resulted in another 400,000 American deaths, and turn it into a college basketball satire. Maybe I am old fashioned, but there are things that you just don't do and one of them is satirize a speech given to a nation in mourning.
This is not about our differences, Jaybate, this is about common decency and I really would like to think that you are better than that.
Ouch, ankle breaker.
I agree with you 100%. Many posters grossly underestimate Calipari based solely on the slimy image people other than UK fans see; however if you underestimate him, you do it at your own risk. Yes, he has better and more experienced personnel, but I have to admit that his platooning worked rather well last nigh, and he plainly out-coached coach Self.
Actually KU had more offensive rebound 20-15 and the overall rebounds UK 47-42 were not that different. The big difference is that UK scored a lot of points off those offensive rebounds where KU got their shots blocked. I was so frustrated watching KU players drive to the middle and attempt a shot while surrounded by 3 unibrow-like players only to have their shots blocked.
It is not like UK had a particularly good offensive game, 72 points is really not a big offensive show; the problems is that KU's offense could not score.
I have mentioned before that if you look at Svi's stats, while not a slouch, he is really not know for his 3 point shot either. I don't understand why some people (not you) continue to expect him to suddenly become an ace from 3 point land. Having said that, the kid has some serious upside to him; he does not get rattled and stays composed all the time. Once his shot starts falling, he will be a special player.
...more like fugly!!!
Mr. Zenger...this is the game you should have blacked out.
Absolutely painful to watch except for the first 3-4 minutes and the last 4 minutes of the first half.
Most telling stats:
KU 3-23 and 12 point total in the second half.
UK: 19 assists, 5 TOs; KU: 4 assists, 11 TOs in the entire game
UK: 11 blocked shots.
Lowest point scored in game in the Self ear at KU; previous low was 49. Completely dominated in every aspect of the game, and when KU got offensive rebound could not capitalize. Compared to the offense, the defense was not terrible, although it could not box out on rebounds and UK got tons of point on second chance shots. Offense was non-existent so I can't say much about something that just was not there.
Which begs the question...do we really want a player whose defining criteria is a Snapchat post? I mean...really?
ROTFLMAO!!!
In Vegas gambling is legal and until your bookies gets nabbed, you can gamble locally as well. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, what happens at KUBUCKETS.COM goes to the entire world.
In previous years men's basketball teams were not permitted to practice prior to the Friday closest to October 15. In 1971, Coach Lefty Driessel at Maryland started a celebration that included running in the track at the stadium right after midnight on the first day of practice. In 1982, Kentucky started what they called "Midnight Madness" and in 1985 under Larry Brown, KU started "Late Night at the Phog." These tradition have stayed in place even after the practice rules have changed and some.like KU, chose to keep it as close as the traditional and original date, except with an earlier starting time; others, such as Kentucky, have opted for having theirs later when they can have the greatest impact and more importantly, a later visit by top prospects.
There you have it, tradition versus marketing.
I guess some would have an issue calling height a skill, since the word implies that it is something you develop through hard work, while "height" is God and parent-genes given. Maybe we can call it a desirable attribute/feature/characteristic/trait/quality, rather than a skill? Just a suggestion...
What does any thing you wrote have to do with my post?
I guess you missed the memo that indicated that SMU, even without Mudiay is still a top 25 ranked programs this year, 22 actually, and with him they would have been top 10...but why let the facts get in the way of yet another long post.
I like Coach Brown a lot and I believe he is one of the better coaches ever and nothing I said indicates otherwise; however Coach Brown got out coached last night, it happens...it happens to the best including Wooden, Knight, Self and just about every other top coach that ever graced the sidelines.
I understand that you have this pathological need to rebut anything I write...let it go, Jaybate, let it go...there is really nothing sinister about my posts. Peace out.
Larry Brown and SMU got killed last night by Mark Few and Gonzaga, 72-56. Just sayin'...no need to reply.
This is an excerpt of the ESPN recap:
"First-half foul trouble for Karl-Anthony Towns, who eventually fouled out, and Andrew Harrison (two) also forced Calipari to move from a two-unit system to a matchup-based mix of players from both groups. Kentucky shot 34 percent and committed 10 first-half turnovers."
I read somewhere else (UK ??? site that I can't find...I will try to find it) where he indicated that he might have to use this approach more and the platoon less.
Thanks for the heads up. I know Cox was granted a 6th year medical red shirt since the KU Athletic site indicates that much, so it probably was Bourbon??? If that is the case, then he might not be coming back.
This article ↗ indicates that Bourbon was indeed honored as a senior, so he likely is not coming back. Bourbon is a 4.0 student so he might have finished his graduate degree and if the NFL is not in his future, it would certainly make no sense for him to come back.
Vegas does not care who wins or loses, they just care about making money and they are very good at it.
If you are familiar with Vegas betting, you know the opening line does not mean much; it sis simply the first number that is reported and it usually is gone once the big books announce their odds.
Also, Vegas does not base odds on what the score will be or the point differential. it simply adjust the odds so one half o the bettors will bet one way and the other half the other way; this guarantees a payoff for them. Although the spread tends to mimic the potential point differential.
Last night, most of the services had the line at 5-1/2 and today it went to 6-1/2 which means more bettor were taking UK by 5-1/2, but now that the lines is higher, bettor will be less inclined to take UK by 6-1/2 and will take KU instead and the bets will balance.
This is probably the best source to get odds:
You will see that the actual line opened at 3 and now the consensus is at 6-1/2; it was 5-1/2 late last night, but game day action changed that and it might chance even more during the day and prior to the game. For another example, look at the Wichita State-Memphis game, It opened at 4-1/2 and not it sit at 9; you would be crazy not to take Wichita and the 4-1/2 points but Wichita and 9 is a different thing altogether.
Here is a good summary of their situation ↗. They are both 5th years having red-shirted before and both have graduated and chose to stay at KU. KU lists Cox as having been granted a medical red-shirt but it does not say anything about Bourbon, but I will guess the same is true for him.
Since they have graduated, I believe they could transfer to another school and play immediately; however, since they both stayed and are attending graduate school, it looks like the will be playing at KU one more season. I hope this answers your questions.
The Vegas lines from the traditional places are starting to come in the consensus seems to be 5-1/2 point with UK the favorite. I thought it would be little higher so UK must have not impressed yesterday.
Calipari already abandoned the platoon system during the Buffalo game and indicated that he will use the players that match up best against the competition. I t was just gimmick that did not last long.
I think that is a typo since the Vegas lines have not even been announced. If you look at the Michigan State Duke it shows Duke +25. which makes MSU a 25 point favorite? NO WAY! Duke will be the favorite in that game, no question about it. There is no way that the unanimous #1 team would not be favorite over the #5 team, even more so when the game is a short distance away from Lexington...it is like KU playing at the Sprint Center in KC.
To add...Oklahoma guard Buddy Hield went 7-7 from the 3 to tie a conference record. OU has a great starting 5 and a very good coach...I am not sure about depth though.
You wrote...
"ESPN3 webcasts the games provided by the Jayhawk Network. But you can't watch ESPN3 (legally) without a Comcast account."
That is not exactly true. ESPN3 is not limited to Comcast; you can have ESPN3 as long as your ISP has a subscription to it; I am with Consolidated Communications/SureWest in Olathe and it has a subscription to ESPN3 and I can watch any sports program except KU's teams. ESPN3 is blacked out for all ISP provider in Kansas.
The only way to watch these games is if your ISP has a subscription to Metro Sports, the Time Warner Channel that has the contract with KU's Athletic Department. Comcast has a subscription to Metro Sports (at least in the KC Metro area) so the games can be seen on the regular channel Comcast assigns to Metro Sports. The ESPN3 stream on Comcast Internet is also blacked out on Comcast Internet. BTW, The Metro Sports Channel is not part of Comcast's basic package, you have to get an updates package with an extended channel lineup (most of them truly worthless) that includes Metro Sports. It is a racket and KU's Athletic Department is smack in the middle of it.
By the way. did you know that the black out of ESPN3 in the State of Kansas is not limited to football and men's basketball? It includes all sports including women's basketball and volleyball. Un-effing-believable!!!
Haven't the C and PF become one and the same anymore? A few years ago, most current PFs in the NBA would have been called Centers and most teams don't even list a Center anymore. College follows the NBA and the same trend is present, KU does not list a single Center in the roster, even Mickelson and Lucas are listed as Forwards.
Looks like UK is having even more "growing pains" than KU. Based on the performance of both teams, I am curious on what the Vegas line will be for this game: a few days ago I would have said 10-12 but now I am thinking that it will be single digits, maybe 6-9? What do you think.