🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Actually, MU got a gift from heaven when Haith left. I had hear rumors that his days at MU were numbered and he was going to be let go and MU was working on finding potential replacements. Haith leaving gave him a face saving option and not only saved MU a ton of money because they will not have to buy out his contract, Haith will actually have to pay MU to buy his contract out.

On a separate note, when Norm was "honored" at KU after he retired he was give a rocking chair at halftime and I was the person that started the started the "sit down Norm" chant at the time...my claim to fame at AFH. By the way, the game was the KU-Texas game when Collison went crazy, scored 24 points, grabbed 23 rebounds and got a standing ovation from Dick Vitale when he fouled out; best college game I have ever watched live. All in all, a memorable night.

@icthawkfan316

Agreed. Coach Self is doing what every other coach does.

@icthawkfan316

Haith's w-l records looks a lot better on paper than in reality. MU along with UK and Florida were supposed dominate the SEC in basketball and grossly underperformed; the football team, on the other hand, performed well beyond expectations.

The great majority of MU fans I talk are not happy at all with Haith, but then, what would they expecting? In 7 years at Miami, he never had a conference winning season. It must be a Missouri thing...The Chiefs hired Crennell that had only one prior winning season and expected him to win consistently? He did what he did before....have losing seasons.

@justanotherfan

UK can be a powerhouse or another team full of inexperienced players, depending on who leaves or stays. They have the greatest potential to be one extreme or the other. I am not sure what is the scholarship status; I was thinking that some of the signings were predicated in several players leaving. If most decide to stay, some might need to be forced out.

I indicated several times that "the" Ohio State record was built on such weak early schedule that their presumed strength was just smoke and mirrors. Once they got to the conference portion of the schedule, they were exposed as a run of the mill team, and not the one that at one time was ranked as high as #2, and stayed in the top 3 for several weeks. Iowa was also another overrated Big 10 team.

@icthawkfan316

Most every coach including Self always indicate that their goal is to have a rotation of 7-8 players and no more. It takes time and effort to have the players learn to play with each other and become aware of the little things that make the team work like a well oiled machine. If you start playing more than 7 or 8 players you introduce variables that decrease the efficiency of the team as a whole.

At the beginning of the season Coach Self indicated, half-jokingly, that this year he might have a bigger rotation in view of the talent available, but when the rubber hit the road, it went back to the rotation he has always used; not really a big surprise.

As I said, I have heard several big time coaches indicate the same approach, Coach K, Pitino, Izzo, Wright come to mind.

Nice story by Myron Medcalf...

Big 12 story...t ↗

...of course we all knew that already :)

@Crimsonorblue22

If they have graduated and have one year left of eligibility, get a release from their current school and attend a school that has graduate programs that their current school does not offer, then they are eligible to play immediately; otherwise they have to sit one year. The ability to transfer without sitting out a year when there is a coaching change is one of the proposed NCAA changes but is not in effect yet.

I heard that every year there is a fair number of players that transfer but you don't really realize how many until you seen the entire list...

List of players tranfering... ↗

@drgnslayr

I've never understood why we work so hard to recruit depth, then we don't use it unless we have a dire emergency. We could be running presses all game and forcing teams into our tempo and then tire them out only because we have depth and we use it every game.

Depth is like insurance, you hope you never have to use it but it is comforting to know that if you ever need it...it is there.

@konkeyDong

I agree, Selden is a much better ball handler than White. What Self said about White at the time was:

“He’s getting tougher,” Self said. “Andrew’s getting tougher. He’s a competitive kid. Andrew’s going to be OK. You look at our team. Does Andrew deserve from a talent standpoint to play more? Absolutely. No question. But you look at our team, what’s our biggest need?”

Better ball-handling and passing.

“Now you’re putting in a guy who doesn’t do that as well as some other guys,” Self said. “If we were more consistent handling and passing the ball, Andrew White would be playing more. But that’s not really Travis’ forte. That’s not Ben’s forte, so it needs to be Elijah (Johnson) and Naadir (Tharpe’s) forte.”

To me it means that, at the time the comment was made, White was not able to handle the ball well enough to create his own shot or pass the ball well enough to create scoring opportunities for other players, in other words, he is/was just a shooter. At KU he plays that hybrid SG-SF position much like Releford did, although Releford was a much better passer and rebounderl. Many outstanding shooters, such as Reggie Miller and Ray Allen were not know for their ball handling but for the ability to receive the ball and shoot effectively from outside and use that threat to penetrate when needed. Hopefully this summer White can improve his ball handling and passing skills and get meaningful playing time; if he can become a consistent threat from the outside without sacrificing to much in other areas, he could well be a significant contributor...or he can transfer to Wake Forest and play for Manning. :)

@JRyman

That kid remind me of Ricky Rubio...

@HighEliteMajor

Does this mean that we need more help with the bigs than the PG or is Turner, a likely one and done, that much better?

Is Devonte Graham last season's Tarik Black, i.e. the last half way decent player left and this is why he is garnering all the attention? I understand that after the season is over, nothing much changes in the rankings, but Graham was not on any top 100 list; I saw one site that compiles the average ranking from all sources and he is the 170s, and most publications have him as a 2 or 3 star. Are we making too big of a deal for a player that normally KU would not be interested or is he a diamond in the rough and next season's Embiid?

Let;s say KU has only one schoolie left (no one transfers) and given a choice between Devonte Graham and Myles Turner, who would you pick and why?

@truehawk93

As I indicated before, Snacks might have the initial contacts and lay the original ground work but kids come to KU because of Coach Self and the KU tradition. Snacks might start the process but Self is the "Closer." I can see why bigs in the past came to KU because of Self "AND" Manning, who had reputation with bigs. However, and to the best of my knowledge, Snacks is not really known, or at least not yet, for his coaching skills; his main talent right now is his connections, particularly in the Chicago area.

You did not answer my question, if Snacks is recruiting for MU and Frank Haith, do you think they get Alexander? Yes, It is possible but highly, highly unlikely.

By the way, I believe Slayer mentioned that Coach Self has Roberts with him at Brewster and not Snacks.

We haven't always won every recruit... but Self is dangerous when he really wants a player and it's crunch time. I can see this happening.

This time, Self has Norm Roberts by his side at Brewster."

Maybe you both can site a source?

@truehawk93

"Snacks" might do the heavy lifting and lay the ground work during recruiting, but kids come to KU because of Coach Self first and foremost and Snacks is a distant second. If Snacks would be recruiting for MU/Haith, how many quality players do you think he would get?

@truehawk93

Read Ralster's take on the combo guards and how Self's system seems to work best with two combo guards rather than the conventional PG-SG combination. Excellent analysis.

@drgnslayr

There was story about Withey's progress in the NBA and how much better he had gotten since he started pushing back, once he realized he did have the strength to do so. No doubt he has been a pleasant surprise for the Pelicans, paricularly since the Unibrow is out for the season.

@Wishawk

His wingspan is that of a player 5" or 6" taller, a huge advantage on defense and rebounding.

@ralster

Really nice and complete analysis of recent KU PGs. Not all guards had good starts, you mention RussRob taking a couple of years to become acclimated to the Self System and flourishing afterwards. Mario was a turnover machine and Jeff Hawkins averaged almost 20 minutes per game playing PG on Mario's freshman year.

One of my favorite KU combo guards is Kirk Hinrich. He is listed as Guard by the Bulls but he has been playing PG for them since Rose cannot seem to stay healthy, and he is the glue that keeps that team humming. I was in Chicago 4 or 5 years after he had started playing for them and I was surprised how popular and well liked he was; by far the most popular players in the team and all the locals always mentioned KU when talking about him.

Frankamp is a coach's son and like other coach's sons before him such as Collison, Hinrich and Reed, he has super solid fundamentals and his game IQ is high; in addition, he is a superior 3 point shooter.

He is now an adequate PG that will not make too many mistakes, but I am not sure he has (yet) the athleticism to penetrate and take it to the hoop, and he is not (yet) fast enough to be a lock down defender. How much he develops over the summer will determine how much he plays next season. He is a gym rat so I am convinced that lack of effort will not be an issue.

As far as Perry Ellis, I remember Raef LaFrentz coming back for his junior year completely transformed, looking like a hulk and dominating inside. I am really hoping to see a similar transformation by Ellis; although in all fairness, LaFrenz had a bigger/taller frame.and was the prototypical PF where Ellis is built more like SF. Along with Frankamp, Ellis could be one Andrea Hudy's more successful projects.

Pretty decent game and the good guys won. Both KU recruits started for the USA team and played well.

Here is a link to an interview with Oubre; he seems well spoken and smart and looks like he will fit well in Coach Self's system.

Link to interview with Oubre... ↗

Here is a link to the game recap...

Game Recap... ↗

Mason has not yet made the transition from HS point guard and primary scorer/volume shooter to that of directing a Division I team. His first instinct is to look for the shot first and the pass second; after all, this is what he was expected to do and he did that well in HS.

Hopefully by the beginning of next season he understands his role in the Self system and develops into the guard we think, or at least hope, he can be. He has the speed and the hops, he just need to get it under control and look for the pass and easy basket first and scoring next.

@JRyman

College athletes are already well compensated. If they are going to pay them additional money then what is the use of having college sports? Might as well let schools have their own professional teams, much like counties such as Mexico, do with soccer teams.

@icthawkfan316

Selby is an ubber talented player and I cannot understand why he has not gotten an opportunity in the NBA. He was the co-MVP of the 2012 Summer League with Lillard and look where Lillard is and Selby played mostly in the D-League and then a few games in China and Croatia where he was waived due to an injury and I am not sure if he is even playing now. What a colossal waste of talent.

@drgnslayr

Exactly.... Look how good Napier and Boatright made DeAndre Daniels look!

Not on the last game, he went 4-14 for 8 points and had arguably his worst game of the tournament. He was actually pretty uneven the entire tournament alternating very good with not so good games.

@JRyman

Yes it is, to play in the second semester of college all you have to do is pass your first semester.

It is not that simple. The player has to be enrolled in certain number of classes to be eligible to play. At KU, the Athletic Department has volunteer monitors that make sure athletes go to classes, otherwise they might not be allowed to play or could even be suspended. Once the season ends, the school has zero leverage over a student-athlete that is leaving for ther NBA.

If a student-athlete leaves before the end of the semester without finishing the school work, the Academic Progress Rate (APR) is affected. Syracuse lost two scholarship when 3 players left school to prepare for the NBA before finishing the Spring semester. KU has been lucky so far that even student-athletes leaving early for the NBA. stayed on campus and finished the semester, and thus left in good academic standing and allowed KU to maintain its perfect APR. It is very likely that students planning to move to the NBA take the very minimum number of classes (electives) that will allow them to stay eligible, even if they are not making a meaningful progress towards a degree, so they can finish them early and leave in good standing.

The NBA has rules in place to penalize flopping; all potential flops are reviewed after the game and penalties are issued. Penalties start with a warning for the fist flop, $5K for the second and go up by $5K with every subsequent flop. During the playoffs, the warning is removed and the first flops gets a $5K fine and so on.

Th D-League now does a video review of alleged flops at the first stoppage (so the game flow is not interrupted) and if it finds flopping, a technical is assessed to the flopper. This is probably the model the NCAA should adopt initially and increase the penalty to game suspensions for repeat offenders.

Paul Pierce story... ↗

KU great joins the 25,000 point club, Only 3 other active players, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki and Kobi Bryant have scored 25,000 points. Pierce is the only one of the four to attend college; Garnett and Bryant skipped college and went to the NBA straight form High School and Nowitzki played HS and pro-ball in Germany.

Is Paul Pierce KU's best pro player not named Wilt? He certainly has had a long and successful career in the NBA.

@JRyman

Didn't get any laughs for Letterman either. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

@drgnslayr

Since the NCAA allows only 3 assistant coaches which one of the current staff do you suggest is let gof?

@nuleafjhawk

Excellent point. This is why I favor the baseball rule that requires players to stay 3 years ins college if they don't got to the League directly from HS. In 3 years many players can and do graduate and, if basketball does not work out, they can go back and finish their degrees and have a career to fall back on.

This theme has been beaten to a pulp like a rented Missouri mule. Can we put this thread to a merciful end and start a new thread if there is enough interest left? It is a PIA to scroll to the bottom when accessing the forum from a cell phone or tablet.

I favor the baseball rule, go directly to the NBA from HS or stay in college 3 years. This gives student-athletes that do not make it to the League (which is most of them) a real change in life since they can easily complete their degrees if basketball does not work out.

@RockChalkinTexas

Oubre, his work will be seen at basketball's Louvre...AKA AFH

@ralster

You make good point about players having bad days and the team losing. This is one of the reasons why I feel the regular season conference title is important and valuable since it represents overall competence over 18 games played over and extended period of time, and even when a player or players have bad games that result in loses, the overall performance and consistency of the team over the course of the season determines the conference championship. The Big 12 had 7 teams that at one point or another were ranked in the top 25 (several in the top 10) and they all had "slumps," and KU ended up being the more consistent team and winning the regular season title. Most reputable publications that have generated rankings for college basketball programs consider the regular conference title as a very important part of the equation. Some posters in this forum consider the national championship to be the "be-all, end-all" criteria when judging a program overall success; obviously I do not.

The NCAA tournament, on the other hand, is very unforgiving and crams several games in a short period of time; one bad game and you are gone. Look no further than this year where the two finalist were teams ranked #7 and #8. One could argue that at least Kentucky was under rankle, but neither one of the two teams was ranked in the final poll prior to the tournament. Are UConn and UK the best two team in College BBall? the answer is no, but the last poll of the season lists them as #1 and #2.

Look at the KU team that won the title in '88. If that tournament is re-played 100 more times, KU probably does not win it again. I was a magical and unlikely ride, when the start aligned correctly and at the right time for KU, and included wins against teams such as KSU which had beat KU twice handily earlier, and our only win was by one point, and OU, which also beat KU twice during the season. Was KU the best team in '88? The answer is absolutely not, but if finished the season ranked #1 anyway. Or even the '08 title season, when if not for Mario's miracle shot, KU does not win the title. There have also been several KU teams that could have and maybe should have won the title but did not because one less than optimal; performance. This is the nature of the tournament, survive and advance, and the best team does not usually win the title; there is a lot of truth to the "March Madness" moniker.

As far as defense. I contend that the new contact rules affected disproportionally teams, such as KU, that played and depended on tough man to man defense. Teams that did not play defense and relayed on penetrating offenses benefited greatly from the rule, since every time the penetrated and missed they usually ended up at the free throw line. Look at the best defensive players KU had this past season, Wiggins and Embiid, both are players that did not have to change the way they played defense since it was their first year. Players like Tarik Black, on the other hand, ended up collecting fouls like crazy, since they had to change the way they had always played in the past.

As far as changing the OAD rule, I favor the baseball model that allows a player to go straight to the NBA from HS, but if he goes to college, then he must wait 3 years. The advantage of this rule is not that it prepares players better for the NBA (which it indeed does), but it gives athletes the opportunity to complete the majority (or all) of the requirements for a college degree, and considering how few make it o the NBA, it gives the student-athlete a better chance in life if basketball does not work out.

@JRyman

Withey is coming along nicely and exceding expectations.

@icthawkfan316

I agree. Henry was indeed a pretty solid kid and he has returned many times to Lawrence to promote KU.

@Crimsonorblue22

It figures. It excludes a good portion of the state from watching news related to the flagship university.

@Crimsonorblue22

Sorry, not you. Hard to correct quickly from a cell phone.

@Crimsonorblue22

...but true. Keep in mind that someone else mentioned cheerleaders and their looks first.

@wissoxfan83

Did you see the Harvard cheerleaders? They make the KSU cheerleaders look like centerfolds. Maybe some day they will run a Fortune 500 company, but they will not make any "best looking cheerleaders" list any time soon.

@JayhawkRock78

Amen to that!!

@ralster

The MVC is a much weaker conference with Creighton gone and WSU should continue to dominate. Other than Cleanthony Early he has the bulk of the team coming back and a few decent recruit, so next year should not be that much different. In a way, in the last couple of years he had a "perfect storm" with his current group of players, which formed an incredible cohesive unit, and I am not sure if he can duplicate the results once they are gone.

I believe his best chance to leave is at the end of next season, after he has put together another great record, albeit against weak competition.

@Crimsonorblue22

My mid-life crisis indulgence. Cheaper and a much less complicated that a young girlfriend. Only 30 cars were fabricated that year with the 3.0 engine in the Impala Brown color, and only 4 hardtops of that color we released over the entire production life of the BMW Z3, so this particular car is pretty unique. It is extremely low mileage and now mostly sits in my garage and I have driven it maybe 50 miles per year for the last few years.

@icthawkfan316

TRob will not be a scorer in the NBA. He seems to have found his niche playing defense and rebounding; many players have a very successful careers doing just that.

@wissoxfan83

Rush was putting solid numbers for the Warriors until the ACL injury. His trade to Utah was disaster for him and I ma sure he will be playing somewhere else next season.

@drgnslayr

I have watched a fair amount of UK games and the Harrison twins always struck me as being selfish. Only towards the end of the season when they started to be less selfish, the team improved.

@drgnslayr
Ah... the memories...

The first one he named...

"The Chocolate-Thunder-Flying, Robinzine-Crying, Teeth-Shaking, Glass-Breaking, Rump-Roasting, Bun-Toasting, Wham-Bam, Glass-Breaker-I-Am-Jam."

He named other dunks: the Rim Wrecker, the Go-Rilla, the Look Out Below, the In-Your-Face Disgrace, the Cover Your Head, the Yo-Mama, and the Spine-Chiller Supreme.

And that's how the breakaway rim came to be.

And just of kicks, this is my own Chocolate Thunder...

!Z3_small.jpg ↗

@drgnslayr

The Celtics video you posted is from 2013; the "chop" was supposedly implemented in 2008. Maybe the Celtics are also using the Chop...:)