@Texas-Hawk-10 I was stating a fact, not correcting you.
8 wins is not the average in the country. So if we can build a program that consistently gets 8 wins with a crappy QB, I think you prove my point.
Anyways, I doubt we end up agreeing, I'd rather agree to disagree at this point. Just remember the next time you think KU has a "Gret College QB," check to see who he is throwing the ball to. Makes all the difference in the world.
Let's hope that he is a nice surprise this season. If we get anything extra from our 4 spot that nobody has been expecting, lookout. We are going to be tough to beat.
Hard to believe this team started so poorly. What a difference from April to June.
@Texas-Hawk-10 8 wins is not average in the country. So, sure it is a great way to measure it. Bill Snyder, through depth and talent, can win 8 games with anybody behind the center. Something I, as KU fan, would be ecstatic about. And would hope that is what we try to build. Instead of being a crappy version of OSU or Baylor or TCU or Tech.
But to your point, really? Darren Sproles isn't a supporting cast? 2200 All purpose yards (#1 in the Country that year) to go with 18 touchdowns and 5th in the Heisman vote. What a shit supporting cast. I mean, Roberson literally had to put that entire team on his back.
Klein, had no support either? Just two NFL receivers to pick up his noodle arm that could barely throw the ball 30 yards down field and a running back who put up 1000 yards from scrimmage at 5 yards a carry and ran for 15 TDs. Can you believe that shit? Klein took them all the way by himself. I'm confident I watched several plays they only had 5 linemen and him out there and he completed passes to himself.
Crazy story to follow. As someone who travels quite a bit, I understand the allure of wanting to go to North Korea and see it for yourself. Would never go myself, but I do get it.
Sad for the family, although I'm glad to see them finally speaking out.
Basically said Trump admin is the reason he is back on US soil... fwiw. Sometimes it takes crazy to deal with crazy.
@wrwlumpy Josh looks like the #2 pick now. If you are going to take a 6'7 athlete with great basketball IQ and an awkward jumper, take the one who can at least play defense.
I still think Johnathan Isaac is the steal of the entire class. I hope he falls to the T-Wolves. It also looks to me like Philly is going to trade back two spots and draft DeAaron Fox. Only makes sense if JJ is off the board though. I'd love to see a JJ, Simmons, Embiid lineup. That is a loooong team.
For what it's worth, Mason is projected to go to Philly at 46. Although, Kings have had him in for 2 workouts now. They are pick 34. Every week, he keep inching up the boards.
@Crimsonorblue22 I could see that too. He's much longer and more athletic. He might hold his own better. But only if it isn't against some mauler who can push those skinny legs around.
@Crimsonorblue22 Oh absolutely Preston. I thought that was just a given. My apologies. I meant for backup minutes at the 4 or just when Preston isn't in the game. Maybe we start 4 guards out of loyalty.
mayjay said:
Sports and politics have been mixed since Roman politicians bought the masses' votes with ever more elaborate spectacles in the Colisseum. Refusing to let blacks play professional sports until the 40s: politics. Complaints about Jewish players and owners: politics. Segregation mandating Wilt not stay at the same hotel as the rest of the Jayhawks in the 1957 NCAA tourney in KC: vicious politics. Denying Muhammad Ali a pacifist exemption because he was an outspoken black man: politics. US boycotting 1980 Olympics, and getting boycotted ourselves 4 years later: international politics. Financing ridiculously expensive stadiums so that rich owners can get even more revenue: politics run amuck, and, in Atlanta, more than a little corruption. Even now, baseball putting on patriotic displays actually financed secretly by the Pentagon: that is politics, too.
Forget whether you agree or disagree with any particular viewpoint involved in these examples, because that is not my point. Just remember that any public activity that attracts the attention of hundreds of millions of readers, viewers, and fans is going to inevitably be something that lends itself as a forum to someone wanting to make a point about something.
A President inviting a championship team to the White House has always been about politics--no President can resist the feel-good photo opportunity of hangin' with the winners. I recall athletes declining invitations based on political views when Obama was president--no reason to be so disgusted when it goes against someone you might like. It is just par for the course. Politics and sports, always marching together hoping to catch the public's attention.
You are correct. Sports and politics have gone hand in hand.
But, I think @brooksmd is trying to say, when you are viewing sports, it should be a time we can just all come together and enjoy what is happening. Viewing sports has changed, there is no denying that. There is talk of politics during almost every single broadcast now. And that is what is bothersome. Watching sports was an escape from everything for 2 and a half hours. Now, its not near the escape it was even 10 years ago.
@approxinfinity I think it depends on who we play. Teams with two big posts, Mitch/Whitman will play the 4. But a poor scoring 4 and we will see Svi.
Svi only has a 6'5 Wingspan and 8'4 standing reach. Those aren't great measurables for defense or rebounding. But his 33" vertical isn't bad. Rebounding is half desire though. You have to want to mix it up down there.
@Texas-Hawk-10 You clearly don't know the Russell Wilson story very well. Stud in College. Every season. Coach got pissed he was committing too much time to baseball and decided to moved on.
And, again, my point is that KU DOES NOT NEED A STUD NFL QB. How you got anything but that from any of my posts I'm not sure.
Do YOU know why so many teams run spread offenses? It's because it forces the D into M2M, puts smaller defenders on the field and because they have talent on the outside to exploit 1v1 matchups. And because QBs can't throw guys open at the college level. NFL QBs can barely throw guys open. Coaches want easy reads and schemes so that they can take as much away from the QB and control as much as possible. QB in an up tempo spread offense makes hardly any decisions. So a "great college QB" is really someone who can throw an accurate ball 40 yards down the field. That's it.
I'm not saying KU needs to recruit with UT, OU etc. I don't even think we can recruit with TTU, OSU or Baylor. That is why I said we should look at KSU as an example... Young Bill Snyder built up depth, let the cream rise to the top, and had a decade of great football. And then since Snyder has been back, he has had another solid run. 15 of his 25 seasons have been 8 wins or more. 20 of 25 seasons he has been bowl eligible. Absurd.
QBs with 8+ wins under Snyder:
Is he some friggen QB guru? Or is it that these are the WRs those QBs threw to:
If you count, that is 11 receivers in the league during those same seasons... Find a guy to get your talent the ball, absolutely. But it is that talent wins games. We can recruit better than KSU. But we have to learn how to build the same depth and culture that allows KSU to compete with better teams. (Typically it hasn't been with a mobile QB. Bishop and Klein you remember because they were heisman candidates. Other guys won just as many games).
A more talented KSU is a very scary program. A less talented OSU or Baylor isn't.
@BShark Yea with Dedric in that spot it is going to be hard to land him. Especially if he is an early signee. Only positive is the 3 Adidas schools in the final 7. I'm sure he has reps and agents in his ear.
Number 1. It only exists to give players like Diallo practice and a statistical way to measure improvements. Or, to see young guys that were borderline draft picks, like Selden, prove they can play at an NBA level ball.
It has not proven to be effective except for having a pool of extremely cheap players to draw from in case of injury. Which is why it won't go away.
The NBA will get a 2 and done rule in though. It is costing them millions to develop guys and get no actual value from them at the pro level. Let someone else develop them for free instead of paying them $1m to play D-League ball.
@Texas-Hawk-10 Until I see an Air Raid QB have a successful NFL career, there is no way I can agree with your premise. All you need is a guy who can sling it 50 yards down the field. Baylor, OSU, TCU and TTU are proof. Let's not pretend Briles landed 3 amazing QBs in a row. That TTU is some place of QB prodigy. Or that OSU has done anything special with a QB. Where are any of those QBs now? Not one of those guys has had a successful pro career. Why? Because they can't even read a defense. It is all scheming to get guys open and the QB just has to key off of one guy. It is why they run the no huddle. It allows the coaches to read the defense so the QB doesn't have to. Now, how many of those receivers have had successful NFL careers for those same teams in that same time span ? Tons. Tons of Big XII receivers have had solid pro careers. Ifso facto, not the QB that is winning these games. It is all scheme and talent on the outside.
And yes, non football factories put their best player at QB. And very rarely are those the best teams that year. It is a last resort strategy. To take a player out of what would be his best position and put him at QB because you don't have anyone who could get that guy the ball is a last resort strategy. I have had to coach teams like that too. And I can tell you that it isn't an option at the College Level if you are trying to build a competitive program. If you end up with a guy who is an athlete and plays QB, fine. That is a bonus. But you don't make that priority #1. Priority #1 is finding a guy who can simply get your best athletes the ball anywhere on the field.
Rarely is the QB the actual problem, unless it is the fact that the QB can't throw a football. If an offense is struggling, it is typically because the coaches' play calling or the defense is more athletic than your offensive players. If you continue the full-court press on recruiting like we have been, and build up depth, we will be able to have 7 or 8 studs on the field at a time. Enough to overcome and QB deficiency. It is easy to say Reesing was a great QB when he was throwing to 4 guys who ended up making NFL rosters.
Problem for KU is that they just don't have a D1 caliber QB at the moment or the athletes to even make a D1 QB look good when we do get one. You can say, put an athlete at QB in the short-term. Just like we are some shitty high school football team. But at some point, if you are looking to build a program capable of going on BCS Bowl Runs, you have to stack your team with talent. That 07 team had 9 pros on it. And Todd Reesing wasn't one of them. We can get that level of talent to KU in those numbers. Maybe not every season like Bama. But we can align the stars once every 3 or 4 years like KState does.
Texas Hawk 10 said:
@Kcmatt7 QB's are huge in the success if CFB programs that aren't loaded with NFL talent at every position like Alabama. Baylor is the perfect example of this when they had RG3. The year he won the Heisman, I believe Baylor finished the year 8-5. Without RG3, that Baylor team finishes at or near the bottom of the Big 12.
Another reason a QB makes a difference is that one that can run forces defenses to spy him which takes away someone covering the receivers and creates more man coverage opportunities for the WR's. If the QB doesn't have great scrambling abilities, then a huge arm can force the safeties to play off the line much more frequently and open up the running game and short passing game more.
KU's QB issues of not having a good runner or someone who can throw a good deep ball has meant that opposing defenses could line up all 11 guys within 8 or so yards of the line and defend the running game and short passing game without worrying much about getting burned deep.
What KU has on offense this year is a QB who appears capable of throwing a good deep ball and forcing defenses to respect KU's deep game. This will open up the bubble and tunnel screens that we saw so much last year run with minimal success be more successful because now there's the threat that one of the Big 3 receivers can run a deep route with this combo and kill the defense.
KU has been a very good running team the past several years until last year, but couldn't score worth a damn because we had no QB to get the ball to receivers with any consistency. Part of that was the OLine with Crist and Heaps, but Cozart and Willis just had no accuracy and Stanley lacks the arm strength to hit deep throws.
They went 10-3 in RG3's Senior Heisman campaign. And followed that up with an 8-5 record with Nick Florence. And followed that up with an 11-2 record with Petty.
3 QB's no losing seasons.
I have coached football at the High School level. And I would rather have a very average QB and 10 other studs than I would 1 freak QB and 10 other average guys. A QB with an arm stretches the field. But nothing stretches the field like a WR you have to double-team. Nothing opens up the deep ball like an O-Line and RB that are gashing a team for 10 yards at a time. Your QB needs to have general football IQ and a D1 arm. You surround that with talent and you win games. Consistently. Look at KSU, who I would rather look at as the model of consistency and how to win games in the Big XII while not being in Texas. We can be KSU with more talented players. A better KSU. But it starts with getting talent at other spots.
Just ask Dane Christ and Jake Heaps about what they were surrounded by. No stretching the field without a receiver who can outrun a defense. No matter how big of an arm your QB has.
The Yankees are good, the sky is blue, tomorrow will be a day that ends in Y, and Pepsi tastes better than Coke.
I'd still rather be a Royals fan. Those back to back WS runs were some of the best days of my life. The wait only made it more special. It was surreal. One winning season my whole life before that - 2003. So to see my crappy team win the World Series, I couldn't freaking believe it. To see them take over a city the way they did, its something the Yankees could only dream of. I've been to a sold out Yankees game, and the atmosphere is NOTHING compared to a sold out Royals game.
There are just those people who only like to root for winners. Nothing wrong with it, but it is easy to do. Takes the fun out of being a fan imo. Yankees are easy to root for. Just like the Packers.... Easy to root for a winner. But to call others bandwagon fans when they are "somehow" fans of the winningest baseball, 2nd winningest football and 2nd winningest college basketball teams says everything you need to know about that person. Especially when they post about it on a board they know they will get lashback from.
This team has the POTENTIAL to be the best team Self has ever had. 6 pro prospects. The entire starting 5 and Svi/Vick off of the bench. IF you get pro level play from all 6, it is another NC banner.
But the reality is that we won't get that. Odds are we get Pro-level play from the 1,2 and 3. The Vick/Svi combo should produce one guy playing NBA level. Question is whether or not Doke develops any BBIQ at the 5. And then if Preston can compete as a Frosh. Billy is realistically the age of a Sophomore or Junior though, and so he COULD be a big surprise if he comes in with the right mindset. But history isn't in Billy's favor. At least under Self.
To me, this is a more talented 2012-2013 team. They went 31-6. I think this team is a 30+ win team too.
C: Buke > Withey
6: Fr. Perry < Svi/Vick
I expect this team to be very balanced and very solid. Sometimes, when you take away the Alpha (Frank) it makes it tougher to be game planned against. I think this team will be tough. Enough fire power off the bench to avoid major drop offs and the ability to score at the 1-5.
@stoptheflop What did he say?
I personally don't think QB is that important in CFB. Not like the NFL at least. Schemes can make poor QBs look good. See every Big XII QB for the past at least 10 seasons. Get a guy with a big arm on campus and then let him throw to some big athletes on the outside.
You win CFB by putting athletes on the field at every other position and simply finding a QB capable of getting them the ball. Looks to me like KU is on the right path to have a good scheme and good athletes all over the field. I don't think we are a 5 win team until next season, but it could arrive early. Depends on if the defense is as good as last year or not. Our offense will take another step forward this year. Would be hard for it not to. But it still won't be able to outscore another team unless our defense is nasty. Bender is only a factor because he might be able to throw the ball further down the field. He could let our play makers actually make plays.
@jayballer54 pick up golf. You can do a twighlight special once or twice a week for $20 or so. And then you can just practice and do drills in your own back yard. A good time kill at the very least.
WKU has pieces to compete. I expect them to at least end up in the tourney.
JayHawkFanToo said:
Why not adopt the baseball model then? Prospects that are ready can go directly from HS, if not then they have to wait 3 years which gives the time to potentially graduate or at least make substantial progress towards a degree which they can finish on line or later.
Baseball teams will actually pay for their education if they get drafted and end up wanting to go back to school. It is a stipulation in a lot of HS draftee's contracts. And probably even college players.
Baseball doesn't want anyone to fail. All of the other sports almost feel like they want everyone to fail and be at the mercy of either the NCAA or the NBA. Whoever can profit off of them at the time... But then again, baseball has a very strong union. Much stronger than any of the other major sports.
jayballer54 said:
Well read today that Coach has gotten 3 more verbals. All defensive line players. - 2 Juco's and one high School
Josh Smith 6'4 - -247 lbs DL out of the same High School as Devonta - -and Coraine - - comes from Landry Walker. - -Three star offers from Houston, Iowa State and others
Then 2 juco players - -same juco: Jonathan Lolohea , and Charles Cameron. - - - Lolohea is 6'3 - -305 DL - -offers from Arizona , Colorado , KSU , Louisville , TCU and others
Cameron is 6'3- - -290 DL had offers from Colorado , Louisville and others
Rivals as of yesterday now has us as the # 12 team ranking and - -247 has us as the # 20 - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Imagine if we won a few games this season...
Ok now you get another upvote for the list of coaches ... As you would say, HOWLING.
You got an upvote for like the first two lines :joy:
@jaybate-1.0 Wouldn't it be better if Devonte shot 243 and hit 47% of them instead? :joy:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I've learned to not expect anything other than late signees from Bill. Doesn't make it less frustrating.
@BeddieKU23 When we only sign late, it does get frustrating. It feels like we aren't getting our #1,2 or even 3 option. Like we are just scrambling to fill a roster.
Just once, I'd like to see Bill have a stacked recruiting season early.
@dylans Nope didn't miss a thing. You actually got a front row seat to watch me be a dumbass :joy:
@dylans Sorry I had something else on the brain this morning. You are correct.
Maybe its just me, but I never thought of Frank as a 3 point threat. He wasn't like B-Mac or B-Green where if they touched it at the trey without someone in their face it was a free 3 points.
To me, it looked like 99% of Frank's 3s were completely unguarded. His defender left him to help on the drive or to rebound and Frank was left standing alone at the 3 point line. Part of that is his crazy driving and finishing abilities that forced teams to not close out on him hard. But part of it, was the thought he wasn't that great of a 3 point shooter.
I do think Newman will shoot around 42% from trey. Svi has the potential to hit 50% from trey. Vick is destined to shoot better than 37%, he started the season in an epic cold streak. DG shot a cold 38% last year. He hit 44% the season before. I don't believe that the 3 point line is a concern whatsoever.
Now post defense, that's a question. Whitman and Doke both couldn't have lasted 30 minutes per game last season without fouling out. Then you have a freshmen. And finally, you either roll out a guard or a guy with arms that look like Spongebob. Talk about a problem.
Chris Holtmann - Edit: Butler Coach.
Dooley will get a better job if he has another good season this year.
@jayballer54 I just don't think he has the time during camp season. He takes camp seriously because this is a huge money-maker for him. This is also how they "legally" pay the players. So he stacks these camp weeks. We are talking close to $1M just from camps.
Also, getting a recruit on campus when nobody else is on campus always bothers me. Bring recruits in to see the pretty ladies walking on campus and for people to recognize you. Make them feel like a celebrity.
But that is my recruiting thoughts. We may just disagree.
Probably gets more PT in real summer games that way. Doubt he would get to play much in Italy.
@jayballer54 Wouldn't you rather be the main focus if you are a recruit?
@Crimsonorblue22 Oh I know. But if he does end up back on the market, we need to pounce. We need another Tyrell or Brady. Important pieces to deep tournament runs.
Greg McDermmott offered job. Great get if they land him. Might put Mitch Ballock back in play for the Hawks... Does that make this KU related now? @Lulufulu
Greg McDermmott offered job. Great get if they land him. Might put Mitch Ballock back in play for the Hawks...
@kjayhawks Idk. I'd retire too at 56 if I was a multi-millionaire with a cushy Broadcast job waiting for me.
@BeddieKU23 I'm just not sure that Bill could make the time he needs to for the recruits. He is crazy busy right now. And, camps are all day until like 10 pm. Just no time for recruits.
@JhwkrRedLegs No I wouldn't say their O-line is better. I would say that because Tom Brady literally holds on to the ball a half second less on average than Alex Smith, the Pats seem to have a better O-Line. Tom Brady doesn't have a single linemen still playing with him he started with. Yet people say this all the time. That the Pats O-line is sooooo good. It isn't. Their QB makes them look good.
And yes, Alex put up other world numbers at Utah under a top 10 coach of all-time. So has every Baylor QB for the past 8 years, every Texas Tech QB for the past 20, and any Ohio State QB under Meyer. Meyer won a NC with his 3rd string QB. Meyer turned Tebow into an NFL QB and two time Heisman. It's all scheming. Not the actual talent.
Trent Green also never won a playoff game for KC. Those years with amazing offense were fun to watch... But ultimately lead to nothing.
QB makes the O-Line. You need one stud linemen at LT and a smart guy at Center. Other than that, piece them together. The presnap read is the most important thing in football. It is done by the Center and the QB. If those two can pick apart the defense before the snap, it is over. Nothing the defense can do.
Oh wow! I can't believe how many people they got to come play! !1_1496871236689_Blue.jpg ↗ !0_1496871236689_Crimson.jpg ↗
@KUSTEVE Big XII will miss him. I hope they picked right. 33 year old head coach of a top 5 program is a little ballsy.
@justanotherfan The funny thing is that i'm not even worried. If we lose all 7, man oh man did we have a great season. And for Bill to bring in those 3 transfers was just genius at that point. Like next level genius. He is skipping the typical dropoff even blue bloods have every once in a while.
And, something to think about. 2019-2020 could be the year. We could have 3 Lawsons playing with a Garrett, Markese Jacobs, Cunliffe, Lightfoot, and Moore. DEEP. Super deep.
This could finally be the time where Bill wins a championship two of the next 3 years. If he lands the one of the stud OAD pieces for next season (i.e. he lands a Bagley, Zion or Langford), it could be 3 extremely crazy years in Lawrence.
Anyways, 7 gone, doesn't matter. The streak will continue.
@HawkChamp The fact that almost every basket he scored in that scrimmage was after he committed an offensive foul to get open :joy:
http://www.fiba.com/europe/u20/2017/games ↗
Link to the full schedule. Just in case someone wants to get this on their calendar now and not forget.
Games are as follows:
7/15 at 6:30 PM in Crete (not sure what time that will be here). I believe that it will be on at 10:30 AM here.
7/16 at 6:30 PM in Crete. I believe that it will be on at 10:30 AM here.
7/17 at 8:45 PM in Crete. I believe that will be on at 12:45 PM here.
That is pool play. If they make it out of pool play than they will play again on 7/19. I have no idea about television on the games. Last year I believe you could watch them live-streamed on Youtube.
@RockkChalkk Still not sold on that. If he starts its because we start 4 guards. JMO.
If Svi can do what he did in some of his NBA workouts in an actual game, he's a better player than Vick. Although, if we get last year's Svi, I agree with you that Vick should probably start.
I have been waiting for a Svi breakout for 2 years now. It's coming. You can tell it just hasn't quite clicked at 100% yet for some reason. A 6-7 guy who can hit 85/100 from NBA 3pt range is special. He just has to get a little more confidence in himself. I'm excited to watch his games this summer and see if he plays better than he did last summer.
My 5 thoughts:
Oh how I wish Dedric could play this season...
Newman looks silky smooth.
Udoka is going to foul out of every game this season
DG looks like DG still. A good thing if you ask me, as those questioning him about turning into EJ will be silenced shortly
This will be Vick's last season in Lawrence if he plays this confident during the season.
@JhwkrRedLegs Pats O-Line isn't more talented than anyone else's. Brady just literally picks apart defenses pre-snap. He makes his line look good by not allowing himself to get sacked. The Pats rarely have a 5 or 7 step drop. It is a 3 step drop with a pass in under 2 seconds.
I do agree with their offseason moves. But they don't sign stars to long-term deals and that is what allows them the wiggle room to make moves they need to. That strategy only works when you have the greatest QB of All-time though.
@AsadZ Cain is a good guy to trade.
Hosmer though just basically is proving he deserves a huge contract. Which is good for us. I'd rather have an extra pick at the top of the 2nd round than get prospects for him. Only way I would move him is for a can't miss prospect. I could see a Hosmer-Vargas, Cain-Vargas or Moose-Vargas combo deal with a team for 2 or 3 stud prospects.
What I hope to see is Moose getting crazy hot and being worth a $50m contract. If that is the case, you may only trade Vargas at the deadline and let the everyone ride it out. That would be about as good as we could hope for prospects. Most mid-season trades don't workout. There is a reason the prospects that get traded for aren't in the pros yet...
@Lulufulu Well I mean you are right. With all of this offseason news I should probably move it...