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@wissoxfan83 Our bench has been nothing short of sensational. Sure, neither Greene or Lucas came into the game and scored in double figures, but Greene has been getting better, and it was clear the leash was a little longer than usual last night. But anyways, Mason, Greene, Lucas, Traylor, Black, and Frankamp all come off the bench. Two of them were hurt last night and didn't play, so maybe that's why you didn't think the production was solid.

Wiggins most definitely did not have a quiet 27 points. He had a deafening 29 points. He was clearly the player of the game.

I read your post, so don't feel neglected :)

@wissoxfan83 Well, they've had to play some tough teams, but at the same time they got whooped by Texas Tech. But yes, Scott Drew just isn't a very good coach. There's probably more reasons, but I don't really watch Baylor very often.

@wissoxfan83 Baylor is like 1-6 in the Big 12. They are not much of a concern anymore. I'd hate to see KSU keep squeaking by opponents to a 10-3 record or something like that, to where it's us and them all over again.

@Hawk8086 I agree. You have to give them SOME credit. But what's funny to me is that it was like, 'Hey. TCU. The Topeka YMCA thing wasn't a compliment.' But whatever.

That was a frustrating blowout (I thought). I was tired of seeing a defensive possession constantly resulting in a trip to the line for TCU. Perry is killing us with the missed layups, which he has turned into a habit recently. Don't get me wrong, I love Perry Ellis, but I'd almost rather see him shoot it.

I enjoyed watching our bench play more than anything. Was nice to see Greene and Lucas get serious minutes. Greene has now made a three in the last four or five games (I think), and that's off of 1 or 2 shots. Imagine what he could do if he was taking 5 or 6. I was really impressed with Lucas though. And there was even an Andrew White sighting at the end.

I'll be honest, I don't know a ton about eligibility by semester and how that works with the school's semesters.

That being said, the game against SDSU was over two weeks before the start of the spring semester.

I agree with the posters above that the fact that Greene was made available to the media offers a very telling sign that Greene is an important part of this team.

To me Greene has all the intangibles. He's a great shooter, he has confidence (which is clear when he's not worried about getting the quick hook, which makes no sense when you consider that Self would have to be ok with all the mental mistakes Selden makes--but I digress), and watching him closely, I feel that his defense is much better than people give him credit for. I also think that he looks comfortable with the ball, which has for a long time been something that I never really saw in AWIII.

That being said, I don't buy what Self is trying to sell about White. "Before he got injured he was probably ahead of those guys (Frankamp and Greene)." He didn't tear an ACL, or break his wrist. He had a hip pointer and was out for two games (I believe). So it's not as if he's coming back from a devastating injury where he needed to completely refocus and refine all his skills. I just don't see this as being true at all. He's so far behind that he hasn't played since he got a couple of minutes against SDSU? I don't buy that. Either that or he's just the most godawful player in practice ever (which again can't be true based on what Self has already said).

In my mind, the concern over White's likeliness to transfer is wasting your breath. He's gone. And quite frankly, he should leave. If he was my son I'd tell him to. Unless something drastic changes, which I don't see happening, this will be another year of eligibility lost on the bench. White may not be a slam dunk NBA prospect by any means, but why can't he be a guy that does enough in college to get drafted and gets in his chance in the NBA? In order to do that he's got to be given his chance, and the future doesn't look promising. Self has already showed that he's wiling to play guys that have been around the program less time ahead of White (a guy who Self said worked harder than everyone in the offseason), so why wouldn't that be the case in next year's lineup? With Oubre coming in and the possibility of still having Selden, Greene, and Frankamp next year, it would be naive to think that what has happened so far this year won't happen all over again next year.

I have no issue in Self playing the players that give us the best opportunity to win, but if there's nothing going on behind the scenes (like White already telling Self that he will transfer, which I think may have already happened), then why can't White get even a little look? 3-4 minutes? To me the answer is obvious. It's a done deal.

Typically when guys leave, I act like the spurned lover. But with AWIII, I would be genuinely upset to see him go. He's a good player and could turn into something very special at KU, but it looks like he won't get his chance. I (would) hate to see him go, but (would) wish him the best.

@justanotherfan As for Selden's play... I kind of relate it to baseball when a fielder makes a great play and the umpire calls the runner out even if he may have been safe. It rewards the play rather than what may have actually happened. At least that's what I tell myself. It's not like it changed the outcome of the game anyways, so it's annoying to listen to everyone crying about it. Even Heslip said he probably deserved the call.

If anything I was tired of Selden making dumb plays leading up to his dive into the stands.

Does anybody have a link to the game tonight? I live in Ohio now and don't have ESPN. Little help?

@Blown So are you getting your MA at KU or somewhere else?

@Blown That's terrible, man. Did you graduate from KU, or are you still going to KU?

@Blown That a boy. But, I'd go if I were you.

@Blown There's something going on here.... I think you might want to reconsider your weekend plans. Just kidding...but seriously

ISU once again showed that they have the dumbest fanbase in the Big 12 last night. Every single call, "booo, booo." On calls that weren't even close. I loved the comment @iowajayhawk2005 made yesterday about ISU fans. So true. What was even better about the ignorance of their fans is, there was a point in the game where we had 6 FTAs and they had 24 FTAs. The differential closed a little when they had to foul, but for the most part they had the advantage. Ridiculous.

Anyways, pretty good game in a tough environment against a good team. I don't like the argument that ISU lost the game rather than us winning it. I get that it's their game and all, but they were getting calls every time they went in the lane, I can't figure out why they kept shooting threes. Especially since we were in foul trouble. When they showed that Niang was 3-19 from the field I was speechless. We would be crucifying a guy for doing that. But enough about them.

Wiggins, Tharpe, and Embiid all played great. Wayne Simien tweeted after the game, "19 points: child's play. 19 rebounds: grown man business." Was great to see Wiggins get his hands dirty down low. Tharpe was 7-9 from the field with, 3-4 from three, and 6-7 from the line. Besides the 4-4 A:TO ratio, that's a great stat line. Embiid was a monster again. Personally, I thought the flagrant that he got called for was garbage. Nice acting job. In a game this big, to make that call and let ISU get back in was criminal.

The downside is the turnovers. Disgusting. As usual, a lot of them were just stupid, unnecessary plays. And Tharpe actually got away with a couple. But let's stay positive :)

Great win on the road. We are in the driver's seat for the BIg 12. However, we have murderer's row coming in the next 3/4 games. Fortunately they're all at home (except at TCU). Going on the road to Waco isn't easy, but it's certainly not Ames or Stillwater. Going to Stillwater for their one sellout crowd of the year looks to be our toughest test remaining, but it seems that OSU may be a little overrated (and I just don't think KSU is any good).

RCJH

Since nobody's really talking about the game, I'll say something...

I feel confident about tonight. KU has momentum going into this game, and Iowa St. just got brought back down to earth from their inflated perch.

Oklahoma beat ISU on the boards with a 6'8" Ryan Spangler snagging 15 rebounds (Deandre Kane led ISU with 9. Another reason for optimism). That bodes well for us. Niang is ISU biggest...big man at 6'7". We have five key players that would stand above their tallest starter (Traylor, Black, Wiggins, Embiid, and Ellis). That also bodes well for us.

Another positive is that ISU isn't exactly the strongest defensive team either.

If we can prevent them from raining threes, dominate the post and the rebound game, and avoid turnovers I think KU can win this game.

Since we're ragging on fan-bases, I'll throw my hat in the ring.

To start things off, I love Iowa. I absolutely love Ames. It's such an awesome college town, it's a lot like Lawrence. I've had incredible times in Ames and Des Moines. One my very good friends is an ISU alum. Seriously, not being sarcastic one bit.

But as for Iowa State fans...sorry, but they're stupid. Ok, that's harsh. You shouldn't generalize an entire fanbase or large group of people because that's how bigotry, racism, wars, etc. get started. But the ISU fans I've met are simply stupid. They are THE team thats whole season revolves around a handful of games...with the ones against KU making up a large chunk of them. Sorry, that's pathetic. That's the mark of a bottom-tier program. Luckily for ISU fans they have a good coach who--I'd imagine--doesn't bank the entire season on a couple of games.

Clearly, we all saw last year just how pathetic ISU fans can be. Wearing shirts that say "breathe if you hate KU," throwing trash at our players, and a deranged freaking lunatic attempting to accost our coach! Insane! I've talked to several an Iowa State fan that has told me, "beating KU is enough." To which I replied, "but you guys are a better program than that. That shouldn't be your mark of success." "Nope, I'd be content with beating KU."

Mizery all over again in some regards.

One last thing, and I can lump a lot of regions in this country into this category, but Iowans are snobs about weather....I know, weather! "These Kansas people don't know what cold is," they say. Who cares. Cold is cold, hot is hot, snow is snow, ice is ice.

Anyways, go Jayhawks! Would love to see a win in Ames tomorrow night!

PS: Just saw this on a message board from an ISU fan. ISU fans in a nutshell: "This is a must win for ISU. Kane must play if he can. If we lose at home to Kansas tomorrow night the season is over."

@Crimsonorblue22 Calm. Down. It's obvious Wiggins takes plays off and is lazy at times. Settling for difficult jumpshots with multiple defenders on him is a pretty obvious indicator.

Don't get me wrong, I like Wiggins and definitely want him on our team. JMO.

@drgnslayr Great post. I think you're right that it was unfair to compare Wiggins to Lebron. I think that a lot of that came from Wiggins being the best high school recruit SINCE Lebron.

As far as Wiggins' game though. I think one thing that doesn't get highlighted enough is his quickness. When Wiggins calls for a screen and an extra defender comes over to help, he is able to split the two defenders with an explosive first step. His ability to create space and keep defenses honest will make him into a great player, he just needs to be able to nail that shot, like you said, the same way that Kobe can.

From a (maybe selfish) KU perspective, Wiggins could probably score on every possession (or at least lead to a score) if he didn't take plays off and stayed aggressive. He's too talented not to. If he demands two defenders off the screen that would force defenses to collapse on the post while we would still have three guys open.

Just my thoughts.

Since there's so many threads on this site I don't know where to post, here are my thoughts on today's game...

Great win for KU. And, lots to discuss...

First off, hey Mr. Selden. Didn't know where you went. Nice to see you again.

It's great to finally see Selden being aggressive again. And what's better is that it looks like he's got his confidence back. And like I've said before, confidence is contagious, and that much was obvious. Mr. Wiggins sure caught a case as well.

I saw a team out there playing together, playing aggressive, and playing with confidence. And more than anything, I saw this team experiencing something that I haven't seen in some time... THEY WERE HAVING FUN! I guess beating the hell out of your in-state "rival" will do that for a young team.

It was also nice to see Embiid take what was given to him. If teams are going to give Embiid that shot, drill it. Teams may now be a little reluctant to give Embiid the open look at the top of the key, which will make us harder to guard and leave the post open. Could've done without the flagrant though. But I'm sure he's already learned his lesson.

And to K-State: Thanks for sneaking into the top 25 just in time for year annual curb-stomping in Lawrence.

Now, for the nitty gritty. If the presence of Conner Frankamp in the past two games has shown us anything, it's that KU is deep. CF is one of many resources that KU can bring off the bench and provide a spark. I say this because I found it puzzling why Self didn't bring in some of the other guys to get them some valuable experience. Particularly when Embiid got ejected, I didn't understand why Lucas didn't get some PT. I couldn't understand why Andrew White and Brannen Greene didn't get any time at all in this game. I couldn't help but think to myself with about 5 minutes left, 'If I'm Andrew White, I'm gone as soon as the season's over.' What made it even more perplexing is that we're going to need shooters on Monday. We all know what Iowa State's game is: the three ball. If they get out there and start drilling threes, we're going to need to be able to counter. I love what I've seen from Selden, but I'm not sure that he can maintain this kind of consistency. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll have to wait and see.

Speaking of Iowa State... Let me just say this, the Big 12 is a phenomenal conference this year. If it's not the best, it's certainly the most entertaining. Oklahoma's win today showed just how talented this conference is. That being said, I've paid more attention to team's non-coference SOS this year more than I have in the past--primarily because KU's was so tough--and I think that we're starting to see what a fairly weak NCS can mask.

Like Self said after one of our losses (I think the Florida loss), and I'm paraphrasing, "we've been shown our weaknesses and now we can work to correct them." That's absolutely right. That being said, who showed Iowa State their weaknesses? How about Oklahoma State? Iowa State's toughest game was probably either at BYU or against Iowa (I don't include Michigan because clearly they aren't who everyone thought they would be). They have one win against a top 25 team and it's by virtue of a rival they play every year having a good year (Iowa). Oklahoma controlled that entire game. Iowa St. briefly took the lead, but for the most part, the Sooners flat out beat ISU.

Oklahoma St. struggled against West Virginia mightily and was lucky to escape with the win. I told several people last week after they lost to K-State, that loss may have said more about OSU than it did K-State. I still don't think KSU is very good.

So, in the past week I've gone from thinking we could miss the tournament if we kept playing the way we did against SDSU to thinking that our chances of winning the Big 12 for the tenth straight time are starting to look a little better. If this team can keep playing with confidence, utilize its depth and stay aggressive I like our chances going forward.

PS: I thought those uniforms were sweet. This is what it says in small print on the uni: "Pay heed. The game you love began here. Respect those who came before you. Make their legacy your own. Because destiny favors the dedicated. And rings won't replace work. In this game you don't get what you want. You get what you earn. We are Kansas. Together we rise. Rock Chalk Jayhawk."

I happen to think that's pretty cool.

Great win for KU. And, lots to discuss...

First off, hey Mr. Selden. Didn't know where you went. Nice to see you again.

It's great to finally see Selden being aggressive again. And what's better is that it looks like he's got his confidence back. And like I've said before, confidence is contagious, and that much was obvious. Mr. Wiggins sure caught a case as well.

I saw a team out there playing together, playing aggressive, and playing with confidence. And more than anything, I saw this team experiencing something that I haven't seen in some time... THEY WERE HAVING FUN! I guess beating the hell out of your in-state "rival" will do that for a young team.

It was also nice to see Embiid take what was given to him. If teams are going to give Embiid that shot, drill it. Teams may now be a little reluctant to give Embiid the open look at the top of the key, which will make us harder to guard and leave the post open. Could've done without the flagrant though. But I'm sure he's already learned his lesson.

And to K-State: Thanks for sneaking into the top 25 just in time for year annual curb-stomping in Lawrence.

Now, for the nitty gritty. If the presence of Conner Frankamp in the past two games has shown us anything, it's that KU is deep. CF is one of many resources that KU can bring off the bench and provide a spark. I say this because I found it puzzling why Self didn't bring in some of the other guys to get them some valuable experience. Particularly when Embiid got ejected, I didn't understand why Lucas didn't get some PT. I couldn't understand why Andrew White and Brannen Greene didn't get any time at all in this game. I couldn't help but think to myself with about 5 minutes left, 'If I'm Andrew White, I'm gone as soon as the season's over.' What made it even more perplexing is that we're going to need shooters on Monday. We all know what Iowa State's game is: the three ball. If they get out there and start drilling threes, we're going to need to be able to counter. I love what I've seen from Selden, but I'm not sure that he can maintain this kind of consistency. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll have to wait and see.

Speaking of Iowa State... Let me just say this, the Big 12 is a phenomenal conference this year. If it's not the best, it's certainly the most entertaining. Oklahoma's win today showed just how talented this conference is. That being said, I've paid more attention to team's non-coference SOS this year more than I have in the past--primarily because KU's was so tough--and I think that we're starting to see what a fairly weak NCS can mask.

Like Self said after one of our losses (I think the Florida loss), and I'm paraphrasing, "we've been shown our weaknesses and now we can work to correct them." That's absolutely right. That being said, who showed Iowa State their weaknesses? How about Oklahoma State? Iowa State's toughest game was probably either at BYU or against Iowa (I don't include Michigan because clearly they aren't who everyone thought they would be). They have one win against a top 25 team and it's by virtue of a rival they play every year having a good year (Iowa). Oklahoma controlled that entire game. Iowa St. briefly took the lead, but for the most part, the Sooners flat out beat ISU.

Oklahoma St. struggled against West Virginia mightily and was lucky to escape with the win. I told several people last week after they lost to K-State, that loss may have said more about OSU than it did K-State. I still don't think KSU is very good.

So, in the past week I've gone from thinking we could miss the tournament if we kept playing the way we did against SDSU to thinking that our chances of winning the Big 12 for the tenth straight time are starting to look a little better. If this team can keep playing with confidence, utilize its depth and stay aggressive I like our chances going forward.

PS: I thought those uniforms were sweet. This is what it says in small print on the uni: "Pay heed. The game you love began here. Respect those who came before you. Make their legacy your own. Because destiny favors the dedicated. And rings won't replace work. In this game you don't get what you want. You get what you earn. We are Kansas. Together we rise. Rock Chalk Jayhawk."

I happen to think that's pretty cool.

It appears that Lyle has postponed his visit to KU this weekend.

@KansasComet @HighEliteMajor Yep. Perfect analysis.

Posted this on another thread...

I want to suggest something without getting killed for continuing to beat a dead horse, and since this feed mentions "Andrew White's Return," I think it's fitting...

One of the most anticipated things about the start of this season was how incredibly deep this roster was going to be. I remember going to one of the exhibition games at the beginning of the year (albeit an exhibition) and with about ten minutes left in the game, Self took all five players out and put an entirely new set in. I thought, 'ok, here come the scrubs.' Not so. Not a single one of the five coming in was an Evan Manning, Justin Wesley, or Niko Roberts. And I couldn't help but think, that's something we can legitimately do this year. Incredible.

Now, one third of the way through the season we are locked into an eight-man rotation. With the starters being: Tharpe, Embiid, Selden, Wiggins and Ellis. Our three off the bench are Black, Mason, and Traylor. Sure, there's a Lucas sighting every once in a while, and sometimes even Greene or White get a couple of minutes, but for the most part that's our rotation.

Now, go back to the beginning of the season when we were all giddy with anticipation of this roster's depth. Imagine a game like the one on Sunday where we have White and Greene in the game (I'm sure the basketball aficionados will be critical of suggesting something like this as it would mean that Greene would be playing the three, and Wiggins would be out of the game with Perry playing the four or Wiggins being forced to play the four), Embiid gets doubled in the post and is able to kick it out to the perimeter where we're able to move the ball efficiently around the perimeter to the open shooter and drill the open three. Maybe this is just my delusion, but the prospect of being able to do things like that is why we were all so excited at the beginning of the year.

Clearly, suggesting lineups like this come at the cost of other player's minutes. As @dylans pointed out in a post earlier today about out team's PER, some of our starters are leaving much to be desired. I'm sorry to pick on Wayne Selden, but he is a player averaging 26 minutes and has one of the lowest PERs (10.5) on our team. And before anyone jumps to point out to me that Greene is at a 5.7 PER, take into consideration that he is averaging 6 minutes a game, and hasn't even appeared in 4 of our games. The same can be said for Andrew White who is at a 17.6 PER and averaging 8 minutes a game. The statistics are there to provide the evidence. As Jesse Newell has continued to point out, Selden's defense is not as good as everyone seems to think; as @HighEliteMajor pointed out yesterday, it may be a bit of a Red Herring. Also, let me be clear, because I know this argument is not popular with some who believe Selden is the better option, I'm not suggesting that Self bury Selden on the bench, but 5-7 (if not more) of his minutes can be distributed to someone else because I can't help but think if we are able to nail some threes in games where we have really struggled to shoot, we beat SDSU and Villanova.

The same argument can be made for Lucas over Black. Lucas has played less than a third of the minutes that Black has and has almost half the amount of rebounds as Black. In his limited time, Lucas has performed very well. Again, I'm not suggesting that we bury Black on the bench, but giving Lucas some more time may help us in games where we get killed on the boards.

This team lacks confidence. But this is two-sided. The bad news is the lack of confidence is contagious. The good news is, the spread of confidence, or swagger as HEM put it is also contagious, and a deafening and raucous AFH doesn't hurt either.

I could probably go on, but my first day of graduate school awaits! Let me know what you guys think.

RCJH

@Crimsonorblue22 Yes. Yes I did. Thanks for pointing that out.

I want to suggest something without getting killed for continuing to beat a dead horse, and since this feed mentions "Andrew White's Return," I think it's fitting...

One of the most anticipated things about the start of this season was how incredibly deep this roster was going to be. I remember going to one of the exhibition games at the beginning of the year (albeit an exhibition) and with about ten minutes left in the game, Self took all five players out and put an entirely new set in. I thought, 'ok, here come the scrubs.' Not so. Not a single one of the five coming in was an Evan Manning, Justin Wesley, or Niko Roberts. And I couldn't help but think, that's something we can legitimately do this year. Incredible.

Now, one third of the way through the season we are locked into an eight-man rotation. With the starters being: Tharpe, Embiid, Selden, Wiggins and Ellis. Our three off the bench are Black, Mason, and Traylor. Sure, there's a Lucas sighting every once in a while, and sometimes even Greene or White get a couple of minutes, but for the most part that's our rotation.

Now, go back to the beginning of the season when we were all giddy with anticipation of this roster's depth. Imagine a game like the one on Sunday where we have White and Greene in the game (I'm sure the basketball aficionados will be critical of suggesting something like this as it would mean that Greene would be playing the three, and Wiggins would be out of the game with Perry playing the four or Wiggins being forced to play the four), Embiid gets doubled in the post and is able to kick it out to the perimeter where we're able to move the ball efficiently around the perimeter to the open shooter and drill the open three. Maybe this is just my delusion, but the prospect of being able to do things like that is why we were all so excited at the beginning of the year.

Clearly, suggesting lineups like this come at the cost of other player's minutes. As @dylans pointed out in a post earlier today about out team's PER, some of our starters are leaving much to be desired. I'm sorry to pick on Wayne Selden, but he is a player averaging 26 minutes and has one of the lowest PERs (10.5) on our team. And before anyone jumps to point out to me that Greene is at a 5.7 PER, take into consideration that he is averaging 6 minutes a game, and hasn't even appeared in 4 of our games. The same can be said for Andrew White who is at a 17.6 PER and averaging 8 minutes a game. The statistics are there to provide the evidence. As Jesse Newell has continued to point out, Selden's defense is not as good as everyone seems to think; as @HighEliteMajor pointed out yesterday, it may be a bit of a Red Herring. Also, let me be clear, because I know this argument is not popular with some who believe Selden is the better option, I'm not suggesting that Self bury Selden on the bench, but 5-7 (if not more) of his minutes can be distributed to someone else because I can't help but think if we are able to nail some threes in games where we have really struggled to shoot, we beat SDSU and Villanova.

The same argument can be made for Lucas over Black. Lucas has played less than a third of the minutes that Black has and has almost half the amount of rebounds as Black. In his limited time, Lucas has performed very well. Again, I'm not suggesting that we bury Black on the bench, but giving Lucas some more time may help us in games where we get killed on the boards.

This team lacks confidence. But this is two-sided. The bad news is the lack of confidence is contagious. The good news is, the spread of confidence, or swagger as HEM put it is also contagious, and a deafening and raucous AFH doesn't hurt either.

I could probably go on, but my first day of graduate school awaits! Let me know what you guys think.

RCJH

@AsadZ I cannot stand Doug Gottlieb. If you want something to laugh at about him though, check this out...

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/12/notre-dame-player-rips-doug-gottlieb-for-making-fun-of-his-beard/ ↗

From Jesse Newell in the Capitol Journal, for those of you that haven't seen it...

It's time to start considering whether Wayne Selden Jr. should be replaced in the starting lineup and perhaps in the rotation. Statistically, he was poor in nearly every area: shooting (2 for eight), rebounding (one in 26 minutes), turnovers (two) and defensively (no steals for a second straight game). His 0.967 points per possession mark for the year is worst among KU's top nine regulars, and as this blog showed, he's not providing any sort of a presence defensively either. Selden has a great basketball body and looks good in a uniform, but at this point, he's not pulling his weight in KU's rotation.

@Jhox Great post. Lucas is definitely a guy that I look forward to seeing more of as time goes on.

@dylans Again, we lack shooting. It's something that needs to be addressed. I agree with @HighEliteMajor below. It's not as if Selden needs to play the entire game (especially if he's not getting it done) so why can't you find 15 minutes or so to play a perimeter guy?

I have not given up on the season, and please don't try to tell me what I think. I will not deny that I am a little pessimistic right now. What I've seen has led me to that point. And again, repeating this prevarication of developing next years players over two of the best players we have is unfounded and is completely removed from the point I'm trying to make.

@dylans I'm not saying Bill Self is stupid. I'm saying his insistence to ignore our deficiencies is stupid. Lucas will develop by virtue of the fact that he'll be in Lawrence for another three and a half years. I'm saying that continuing to play Selden over Greene or White is an unfounded decision. We're struggling to shoot the ball. It is something that Self has to address. What does benching Embiid or Wiggins have to do with anything?

My thoughts...

I think as KU fans, we're spoiled. Our team plays in one of the best venues in all of sports. AFH is voted the loudest and most intimidating arena to play in every year. KU fans act as if it is impossible for an opponent to come in and beat us. We expect teams to come in, kiss the imperial seal and take their beating. A team like SDSU isn't going to take that. They're a very well-coached, fundamentally sound, and veteran team. To win at AFH is exactly what they need to show they're a contender (if SDSU was any other team they would be in the top 5 going into this game, just sayin). The venue means nothing if you can't rebound, can't make free throws, and continuously settle for difficult jump shots. That much was clear last night.

Second, Tharpe's comments after the game were extremely telling. "On Monday, I’m going to ask the guys, ‘How much do we really care about what’s on the front of our jersey? How much do we care about winning (for Kansas)?’...I’ve been here a long time. Some of the guys ahead of me (on depth chart his first two years at KU) ... tears came down dudes’ eyes when we lost.” You better believe it Naadir. Guys like Tyshawn, T-Rob, Releford, B-Mac, EJ, etc. were not going to let us lose. They had something this team is completely void of...HEART. They had a competitive edge. Guys like Wiggins don't know what it means to play for a program like KU, and they don't care because they're gone in a few months. Maybe guys like Selden and Embiid may someday get it, but surely not right now. It's so sad to watch something we all hold in such high regard neglected. What I saw last night was on par with what I see from my 4 year old niece at her soccer games. Following mistakes, heads down, energy deflated, DEFEAT. It was all the more infuriating watching Jamari do it as the clock ticked down with 1:45 to go and us still down by 4. This is the problem with having a team like this one. Perry and Naadir are our veterans, but they're not seniors, and quite frankly it's just not enough.

I know it's blasphemy to say something like this, but at this point, Coach Self is stubbornly stupid. Stupidity is the only way I can assess this following portion. Continuing to ignore our shooting deficiencies is about as stupid as it gets. Broadcasters keep saying we lack outside shooting. They just don't realize our three best shooters don't get any playing time. Selden continues to get playing time over Greene, White and Frankamp. Why? I'm sorry, but he's not Releford, so please don't give me the defense excuse. Greene makes mistakes? Ya, so does our entire team. The tradeoff in playing Selden over any of those three is just not good enough to continue doing so. Self is a big fan of asking reporters to look up stats in the history of AFH... I got one for ya Billy, yesterday was the worst shooting percentage for a KU team since they started keeping the freaking stat! How about that!?

If Self continues to make this idiotic decision to stick with Selden over any of our shooters, not only will it cost us a chance at the national title, it will cost us a tenth straight Big 12 title, and if you want my honest opinion, possibly a trip to the tournament. Like the zone defense that led to some of our other losses, SDSU just gave everyone a blueprint for how to beat us. We had no answer for them double-teaming Embiid in the post. None. And since we can't hit shots, SDSU was perfectly fine with letting us continue to throw up jump shots.

This team thinks our Non-con was bad, just wait. Right now, there are probably four road games that seem un-winnable. Ames, Stillwater, Waco, and Manhattan. And I'm tempted to throw Austin in there right now. Those teams are playing with confidence, while ours has no fight and zero heart. And how can you tell me that teams have no chance of winning in the Fieldhouse right now? It can be done. We have many deficiencies, and opposing teams are showing everyone in the Big 12 how to beat us.

And to make that debacle so much worse, was having to listen to that weaselly prick Doug "credit card scam" Gottlieb for two and a half hours. It was enough to put the TV on mute.

At this point, things don't look good. The sky may not be falling, but it's looking pretty shaky right now.

@Crimsonorblue22 @HighEliteMajor

Ok, if there's something going on with Greene, is there also something going on with White and CF? It's becoming a tired issue. Self is severely handicapping this team by ignoring this rather glaring deficiency. He was willing to let his starters make bad shot selections all game, but doesn't even give the three best shooters on out team a chance? It makes watching KU's struggles really difficult.

@bskeet Haha, I like your headlines the most.

@HighEliteMajor I fear that not only has this mismanagement of KU's bench and talent cost us so far this year, but will continue to cost us games and players.

If you're Andrew White's parents, do you tell him to transfer? It would be hard for me not to if I was. We're about 1/3 of the way through the season, and do you see him cracking the rotation anytime soon? Not really. It's as if Self has forgotten about him, or he knows something we don't.

Another thing that continues to irritate me is that people keep pointing to Greene's defense as a reason why he's not playing... Nobody on this team is playing outstanding defense right now, so that argument holds very little validity. I still don't think that Selden necessarily provides a better option at the 2. I just don't see it. How is Greene or White not an equivalent or better option? And on the subject of the quick yank, how many times have you seen any KU player (take your pick this year) make a terrible mistake and get to stay in? Selden is mine. At what cost does Self continue this trend?

I could not possibly agree with you more about Self's mismanagement of of the rotation in 2011. And since we're away from the Brady Morningstar fan club of KUSports.com, I feel pretty comfortable saying it. This defensive argument was made with him too. "Brady's just a better defender." I didn't see it, and what he had to offer offensively wasn't a good enough tradeoff. I see the parallel between then and now pretty clearly.

Posted this on another thread...

My thoughts

I'm really pulling for Brannen Greene to do something, anything so that he can make some progress and be beneficial to us later in the year. When he played last night, I don't know if I've ever seen a player more tentative. It seems clear that he's afraid of making a mistake because he'll get yanked as soon as he does. Clearly he's playing without confidence. To me, this is about as big of a mistake as Self can make. It reminds me of last year when the same thing happened with AWIII at the beginning of the season, and then when we needed him against Oklahoma St. down by 8, Self said, "alright kid, go in there and hit a couple threes." White did surprisingly well in that situation, but that's not the point. It helps that Selden and Tharpe shot fairly well, but Greene's strength--and White and CF for that matter--is shooting the ball. 3-4 consistent shooters is better than 1-1.5. Got to let shooters shoot.

It is somewhat alarming that we were only able to force 8 turnovers last night, but Toledo takes care of the ball. I think they're averaging 5 or so a game. And quite frankly, Toledo made some shots that you'd be fine with them taking for the most part. I'm well aware that they were given some wide open shots from inside the arc, but they made some shots from 35 feet out that were ridiculous and well-defended.

On the officiating. I think that this game was called just like it was last year. Which is nice, but what happens next game when the next officiating crew calls a foul for the slightest contact? Personally, I can't stand these rules. Players have to ignore what they've been taught all their lives, come to college and forget all that, then go to the NBA (if they can) and go back to what they've been taught all along. It's asinine. Anyways, what these rules SERIOUSLY lack is consistency. And wow is it bad. When Embiid and that Toledo player got tangled up, it looked like a wrestling match. Um, you've got to call something there. The lack of consistency hurts players getting used to the new rules. There was one time when you could tell that Perry didn't know what to do in the offensive post because he couldn't tell what was going to be called. He expected a call and he played it that way, then we didn't get the call (which typically would've been with the way the new rules have been enforced) and it turned into a turnover.

Would like to see KU continue to develop, and tighten up the defense because if they thought the Non-conf. schedule was bad, they're getting ready to go at an entirely different animal in the Big 12.

RCJH

My thoughts...

I'm really pulling for Brannen Greene to do something, anything so that he can make some progress and be beneficial to us later in the year. When he played last night, I don't know if I've ever seen a player more tentative. It seems clear that he's afraid of making a mistake because he'll get yanked as soon as he does. Clearly he's playing without confidence. To me, this is about as big of a mistake as Self can make. It reminds me of last year when the same thing happened with AWIII at the beginning of the season, and then when we needed him against Oklahoma St. down by 8, Self said, "alright kid, go in there and hit a couple threes." White did surprisingly well in that situation, but that's not the point. It helps that Selden and Tharpe shot fairly well, but Greene's strength--and White and CF for that matter--is shooting the ball. 3-4 consistent shooters is better than 1-1.5. Got to let shooters shoot.

It is somewhat alarming that we were only able to force 8 turnovers last night, but Toledo takes care of the ball. I think they're averaging 5 or so a game. And quite frankly, Toledo made some shots that you'd be fine with them taking for the most part. I'm well aware that they were given some wide open shots from inside the arc, but they made some shots from 35 feet out that were ridiculous and well-defended.

On the officiating. I think that this game was called just like it was last year. Which is nice, but what happens next game when the next officiating crew calls a foul for the slightest contact? Personally, I can't stand these rules. Players have to ignore what they've been taught all their lives, come to college and forget all that, then go to the NBA (if they can) and go back to what they've been taught all along. It's asinine. Anyways, what these rules SERIOUSLY lack is consistency. And wow is it bad. When Embiid and that Toledo player got tangled up, it looked like a wrestling match. Um, you've got to call something there. The lack of consistency hurts players getting used to the new rules. There was one time when you could tell that Perry didn't know what to do in the offensive post because he couldn't tell what was going to be called. He expected a call and he played it that way, then we didn't get the call (which typically would've been with the way the new rules have been enforced) and it turned into a turnover.

Would like to see KU continue to develop, and tighten up the defense because if they thought the Non-conf. schedule was bad, they're getting ready to go at an entirely different animal in the Big 12.

RCJH

Sometimes I think our bias may get the best of us. I didn't think Bilas did a poor job of calling the game at all.

When he said Josh Smith's elbow shouldn't have been a flagrant, I can't disagree with him. But that's the rule, unintentional or not, and Bilas said as such. The second suspected flagrant against Ellis, Bilas said if you're going to call a flagrant, how can you not call that. Which is true. The third, when Wiggins got slapped then threw the ball, he said you've got to call something there (especially when they have the ability to go back and look at the play) because Wiggins threw the ball at another player, which again I would agree with.

Now, I absolutely cannot stand Dick Vitale (although I think he did an alright job when we played Florida) because he goes on and on about the same thing...ad nauseam. People said the same thing about Bob Knight.

I think if Jay Bilas and Jalen Rose called every college game, I'd probably watch it. But that's just my opinion.

I'm looking at the polls that just came out...

I expected KU to fall to about 18, but I'm struggling to understand the logic behind the top 10.

Louisville has played one top 25 team, at home, and they lost! Yet they're no. 7. Ohio State's best win was against a 6-4 Marquette team, and have played nothing but mediocre to bad teams, whom they've struggled with. I live in Columbus and their schedule is a joke. Oklahoma St. has also played one top 25 team...at home, who they beat and then turned around and got beat on a neutral floor in a game that they trailed the entire time. Michigan St. has also played one top 25 team on a neutral floor, which they won, but have since struggled with bad teams.

Say what you want about Duke, they've played a tough schedule.

These polls are illogical.

First of all, don't perpetuate the stereotype. I watch every KU football game and desperately want to see this program improve.

But as to who should be the starter...

Cozart has a lot to learn. He's not a very accurate passer and makes very poor decisions, but as Weis said he covers up a lot of sins.

Heaps is a great player...he's an alright player, but he's a pocket passer, and if there is not pocket he's of no use. Not to mention Heaps comes off as a gigantic...puss. Sorry it just seems so obvious.

The entire offense needs to improve. Honestly, as the season went on, it seemed that our wide receivers were the biggest problem. Forget the O-line, they're young and will get better. I just can't believe how awful our receivers were. That's one thing I really hope Reagan can fix.

I've been resisting joining this site, but after this loss (and the fact that I'm just not willing to get a facebook page) I had to give in.

My take is that Self finally gave Greene a chance. Out of necessity more than anything, but it made me think. I'm not saying that Selden isn't a great player or going to be a great player as the season progresses, but right now Greene seems to be the better option. He's a pure shooter, he's about the same size as Selden, and he simply has more to offer. I haven't seen anything spectacular from Selden defensively, and at the rate we're going I don't think it hurts to play Greene over him.

Secondly, I'm flat out done with Tarick Black. He's just awful. I will take Embiid starting over him, and I'd take it a step further by saying that Traylor should be the first off the bench, and honestly I like what I've seen from Lucas enough that I'd prefer seeing him over Black.

Third, I love Frank Mason, don't get me wrong. But he's still a freshman. What he has that Tharpe lacks is aggressiveness. But with him, the line between aggressiveness and stupidity is pretty thin. Going at three defenders by yourself is aggressive, but stupid. Tharpe needs to be agressive, not to mention the upperclassman that he is, and take charge.

Other than that, this was a tough loss. And for the love of everything holy, can we please, please play a home game. To say this team's confidence has taken a hit is an understatement. I understand the logic behind it, and I may be singing a different tune in April, but right now it's painfully obvious that this hard of a schedule, and being away from the best basketball arena on the planet is really hurting this young team.

I'll await Dr. HEM's grading of my analysis...