🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@KansasComet Ya, not gonna lie, I'd still take UK's success over the past three years compared to what we've done.

I can't watch this game. It just hurts too much, and I see over and over, again and again in these two teams what KU lacked...they make shots! That may be simplistic, but if you give Napier an open look he's going to bury it. You give James Young a glimpse he's going to slam that dagger down into your heart. That kind of killer instinct is something that KU LACKS. Non-existent, void of, soft, heartless...you get the idea.

@drgnslayr excellent post. I read your entire comment uninterrupted, in silence and got to the end where you note "Let's win it all next year...or let's lose after giving it our complete all!" I stopped and found myself screaming to myself "When have you seen KU lose that way (in March)?" The title game against Kentucky. That's it. Maybe the Michigan game, but hard to walk away from that one feeling good when you blow a ten point lead with 2 minutes left. But you're right. When have you seen that from a KU team? Not against VCU, not UNI, certainly not Stanford. THAT is the upsetting thing. Cry all you want in the locker room afterwards, but leave it all on the floor. We had one player do that this year...ONE! His name was Tarik Black. A guy who did know this could be the last game of his basketball career. The ONE player on this year's team that understood that. That falls on Self's shoulders. How do you not get your guys up in this sort of situation? Was KU this similarly complacent in 2011? Appears to be the case.

@truehawk93 You also make some good points. Not going to get into the Wiggins and Selden thing because that just wasn't a big deal. But you raise an interesting point. When you say "Sadler spilled his guts to Hoiberg," I have to ask, did he need to? I doubt that Sadler really had any impact on the KU-ISU games because honestly I think we win in KC with Embiid, and besides we handled ISU twice before that. BUT, that being said, you're right, Self is very predictable. In that sense, KU is easy to beat. A team like UK that has a size and athleticism on the inside, and is a threat from the 3-point line is lethal. Because you are forced to take away both aspects of the game to beat them. And even then, shooters can make shots even with a hand in their face. James Young is an absolute assassin. This NC game has proven that...but I digress. The question really now becomes, does Self see where his system is flawed and has led to some god-awful, horrendous losses in the tournament? Or is he too proud to change? If the latter is the case, then we're really forced to ask the question, is Self the right choice moving forward?

I don't know. I don't know Jayhawk fans. Self must now recognize the mounting disappointment among the KU fan base. If anything, his one-dimensional way of looking at the game has now cost KU arguably a couple titles. This NC hurts so much because we're left watching either UK become the supreme ruler of the BB world, or UConn...become the most successful program in the last two decades.

I told myself not to watch any of the NC because I would do this... Now off to baseball season...where I don't really care what happens. :(

@wissoxfan83 Haha, I was going for the pre-2004 definition of the Red Sox.

@Hawk8086 you are right about that. But in terms of shooting the ball, I don't think so. And honestly, while that comparison may even be somewhat true, the fact is we became so one-dimensional that when we needed to utilize a different aspect of the game we were unable to. And how you analyze that takes on different angles as well. Did we even have the ability to do what it takes to win it all? Or was it simply out of our reach no matter how the cards fell?

@HighEliteMajor We've essentially become the Boston Red Sox. We've been to the big dance several times, but ultimately left empty-handed. It's undeniably painful.

I can't really add anything to what you've already said, because you are right on. Self is stubborn. We as KU fans have put such a premium on something that is really just not that important (Big 12 champs). They mean nothing. Absolutely zero. What Calipari has done this year is what he's done before, and what other coaches have before him. Prepared their team for March. Kentucky has the real deal in Julius Randle. They know that, we know that, everyone knows that. We knew that in the second game of the season against MSU. What Calipari developed over the course of the season, on top of the talent that UK already had, was the same thing that Self didn't develop, and the reason why we lost in the first weekend.

Watching UK this season was like watching a pick up game. They took foolish shots, played spotty defense, and looked uninterested. But in the end, they only needed to get to the tournament. So many UK players, with the exception of James Young, would take terrible shots, miss them and UK would lose. No big deal though. However, over time those bad shots began to fall, and just in time for March. But UK doesn't have a monopoly on good shooters. We have a few. But guys like Greene, CF, and AWIII really didn't get much of a chance to really work on that shot over the course of the season. UK developed theirs and is playing for an NC tomorrow. Self didn't develop our shooters' outside shots and again, for the sixth time in the past 10 years, we lost to a team we should have beat. We relied on too much of the "same ol, same ol" with Perry "Finesse" Ellis of all people, and lost. To Stanford. In the round of 32. Undeniably painful.

BUT...

As many have pointed out, the question becomes, does KU look to another option besides Self? I vote no. Although I am beyond pissed off about the disappointments.

@drgnslayr That may be the best post I've read on this site. What an incredible story.

I was a year and half old in 1988, so I didn't get to experience Danny and the Miracles. But I was a junior at KU in 2012. I do vividly remember that season. That is a season that I hope to tell my son about someday. With Mizzou stabbing us in the back for money, and KU getting the last laugh over our bitter rival, to a tournament run that took us all the way to the NC. That is the year that I was proudest to be a Kansas Jayhawk. I wasn't (that) upset by the loss to UK. But I do remember vividly talking on the phone with my mom the next day, in the bowels of Watson Library, and holding back the tears as I explained to her how much it all meant to me. These were my friends. They were my classmates. I could honestly say that all of our players that year would be leaving KU with a college degree. It was a representation of what is pure and powerful about college sports, against what is so disjointed and sickening about them. It was the year that I will forever think, if only we could have won that game, we would've won the war (so to speak).

This is why I'm proud to be a Kansas Jayhawk. Kentucky fans don't have this. Hold onto that @drgnslayr , not the skepticism. Because you will always have that. As KU fans, we will never be a cookie-cutter blue blood like Kentucky. UK may someday have the best college arena every built, but it's an NBA stadium. It's nothing special. There's a million like them. Taking your son to AFH is what I hope to someday do with my own (hopefully). I will tap him on the shoulder and point up to that beautiful sign that some students made out of a shower curtain long ago that reads: "Pay Heed All Who Enter: Beware of 'The Phog'." Then I'll explain to him the stories of Phog Allen, Wilt Chamberlain, Jojo White, Clide Loveletette, Danny Manning, Kirk Heinrich, Mario Chalmers, and Thomas Robinson. Guys who still live and die with every KU win or loss. I can't wait for that day. I pray to god that it someday comes, because that is what makes sports so great. That is what fosters the bond between a father and his son. That is to me what KU represents...and I wouldn't trade that for the world. I KNOW, that you share that same sentiment.

Rock Chalk, Jayhawk. Forever and Always.

I'm personally rooting for a meteor strike....or can they all lose?

Nah, but seriously I'm rooting for Wisconsin. The lesser of all evils...not really evil at all though.

@FarSideHawk Yep. Not even a consideration. I'd take that without blinking.

@Hawk8086 If Perry comes doesn't come off the bench, what's your starting five?

1 - Tharpe/Mason/Frankamp/Unknown
2 - Selden/Greene
3 - Oubre/Ellis???
4 - Alexander/Ellis???
5 - Alexander/Turner/Lucas

Of course it all depends on who we get, if anyone. But I think the only way Ellis is a starter is if we don't get Turner, or if he's willing to play the three.

@JRyman The thing about it is, Self doesn't need to change his philosophy, he needs to add to it. His base-philosophy is great, but KU needs to adapt to the changing times. We don't need to be what ISU or Michigan is (i.e. a one-dimensional team that shoots nothing but threes) because I'm convinced that a team like that will never win it all. That being said, we need guys who are lethal from three point range. Not a ton of them, but two would be more than sufficient, and it's not that we don't have them because we do. Self just chose not to develop them as far as he needed to this year. We needed to be able to make threes against Stanford (that's how Dayton dump-trucked them). The fact is Stanford isn't a very good team, their greatest strength just prevented us from doing what we always have done, playing through the post. I do think that Cliff will be a perfect fit for KU next year though. If by some miracle Embiid comes back and KU lands a PG with good size like the kid from IUPUI who is looking to transfer, we become the favorites to win it all. Those are two big ifs though, and probably not going to happen. Anyways I digress.

Self's philosophy is fine. He doesn't need to change it. He needs to develop it better. We won in 2008 because that team could play every facet of the game. Chalmers and Rush were deadly from three. We had three PGs that were top tier, AND we could run Self's high-low offense. We need to get back to that. Because watching us bash our heads against the wall against Stanford and Kentucky (2012 NC) has been painful. And adding to the defensive repertoire is not a bad thing either. We lacked the personnel to play M2M this year. At least as effectively as Self would like and we paid for it several times.

In the offseason, I'd like to see CF and Greene become lethal three pointers. Phil Forte lethal. A transfer PG is also a must. Developing these two aspects or my "wish list" if you will, put us in serious contention to win it all again. These are big ifs though.

@Wigs2 That is definitely not what I'm saying. I was saying that not enough was done in terms of running plays to get Wiggins going.

My point did not have to do with Self recruiting OADs. We're going to go after the top-tier talent no matter what. It's about the surrounding pieces. I was saying that it's difficult to have the caliber of team capable of winning the national championship. We're young without Wiggins' or Embiid's commitment so it's really kind of a moot point in terms of development.

You're right about Tharpe. EKU is the opponent you're referring to. They said that they knew they could turn him over. They were right.

As far as having patience, Tharpe will be a senior next year. His defense (at the end of his junior season) was nonexistent. His leadership (as a junior) is questionable to say the least. I could go on and on. Tharpe leaves a lot to be desired. I really like Tharpe. He's actually one of the nicest guys on the team, but when we needed Tharpe this year (in the tournament) he was not there. Simple as that.

The point I'm trying to make is that Tharpe leaves a lot to be desired at the end of his junior year. Do you foresee him making great strides going into his senior year? Sure, he'll improve during the offseason, but I certainly don't think that he's going to turn into a lockdown defender. I hope I'm wrong. But making excuses for a guy that's been in the system for three years now, even if it is reduced from an incorrect assumption, is weak.

@HighEliteMajor I made a similar argument the other day..

I could only handle watching so much of this. It pisses me off to see how gifted this kid is and that Self did nothing to get him going against Stanford. I'm sure the fact that the tournament isn't any other game where you're capable of trying something just to see how it works. But the more I've thought about it the more I'm pissed of about Self's almost absence in March.

This time of year always serves as a painful reminder that you're remembered for what you do in March. Winning the Big 12 is great, being able to thumb up our noses at the likes of Big 12 teams is certainly a nice thing...but I'd trade it all to still be dancing.

Something that I've been thinking about lately is how March success is a crap shoot for KU. What I mean by that is, isn't it interesting how we need a lot, and I mean a lot of things to fall in place for us to have a team that is capable of winning it all. Yes, all teams need a little luck in March, but we need luck just to have the right pieces in place to win it all. To provide a good example, if Brandon Rush didn't get hurt before the draft do we win the NC in 2008? I don't think so. Watching this tape of Wiggs makes me wonder what it would be like if Wiggins and Embiid returned (not that I blame them for going or expect them to stay), with those pieces in place we're a high-caliber NC contender just like 2008 and 2011...it's extremely unlikely though, right? The fact is we're probably another two seasons away from having a team capable of winning it all, and even that is contingent on whether Oubre really does stay two years (like his father has alluded to), or by some miracle Alexander stays another year. You're almost left hoping that they show flashes in their freshman campaign, but struggle enough so that they're forced into a position like Selden was where it's just stupid to go because you could become a lottery pick by staying compared to a late first round, or early second round pick (which is still why Josh Selby leaving early is mind boggling).

March Madness is the best time of year...but it can very quickly turn into a nightmare that you can't get away from. It seems to me that we need the ball to bounce the right way for us to get another shot at a NC, the last quality, 2008-caliber team was in 2011, and we all know how that ended. I don't know when we'll have another chance at that sort of team with players leaving early for the NBA. This is why @HighEliteMajor so eloquently proposed the question, would you rather have Embiid or Shepherd? If Shepherd (in the hypothetical sense at KU) is capable of developing significantly between his first and second year, thus giving KU a shot next year at an NC, yes. I have no doubt that by his third year, he'd be at a high enough level with the pieces around him to give us a shot at the NC. So again, yes, I'd take Shepherd (purposely sic) over Emiid. But he chose TCU over KU....so there's nothing we can do there...unless he transfers (not happening).

I guess what I'm getting at in this tirade is that I'd gladly trade places with ISU right now. I would no doubt trade places with Florida reaching four Elite Eights in a row. I'd rather be at team built for March, rather than one trying to pull off the trifecta of 2008 every year (winning the Big 12 season, tournament and the NCAA tournament. This is all very difficult to do). Think about it, look at UK, UConn, or even Wisconsin. These are teams that had serious question marks at some point in the season, but easily could be pulling themselves together just in time for a run at the NC. I'm sick of the March disappointments. I don't care about everything else. This is Kansas. I want to boast the mounting national championship victories, being the winningest program all time, not beating up on our little brothers every year only to get ousted once we get to the big boys table.

As always, RCJH.

@ralster Great post, ralster. I can't sink my teeth into it because I'm at work, but overall very nice.

I didn't mean that I would sacrifice THIS year's Big 12 title to still be dancing, I honestly meant in general. If you came up to me with Doc Brown and the Delorean say in 2010 and said, "hey kid, I got a proposition to make. I can tell you that this year's team won't win the Big 12, but they'll go to the Final Four. Now, I'm not gonna tell you who wins or loses in the FF, but you can choose one outcome or the other." I would take the Final Four outcome and not give it a second thought.

I could only handle watching so much of this. It pisses me off to see how gifted this kid is and that Self did nothing to get him going against Stanford. I'm sure the fact that the tournament isn't any other game where you're capable of trying something just to see how it works. But the more I've thought about it the more I'm pissed of about Self's almost absence in March.

This time of year always serves as a painful reminder that you're remembered for what you do in March. Winning the Big 12 is great, being able to thumb up our noses at the likes of Big 12 teams is certainly a nice thing...but I'd trade it all to still be dancing.

Something that I've been thinking about lately is how March success is a crap shoot for KU. What I mean by that is, isn't it interesting how we need a lot, and I mean a lot of things to fall in place for us to have a team that is capable of winning it all. Yes, all teams need a little luck in March, but we need luck just to have the right pieces in place to win it all. To provide a good example, if Brandon Rush didn't get hurt before the draft do we win the NC in 2008? I don't think so. Watching this tape of Wiggs makes me wonder what it would be like if Wiggins and Embiid returned (not that I blame them for going or expect them to stay), with those pieces in place we're a high-caliber NC contender just like 2008 and 2011...it's extremely unlikely though, right? The fact is we're probably another two seasons away from having a team capable of winning it all, and even that is contingent on whether Oubre really does stay two years (like his father has eluded to), or by some miracle Alexander stays another year. You're almost left hoping that they show flashes in their freshman campaign, but struggle enough so that they're forced into a position like Selden was where it's just stupid to go because you could become a lottery pick by staying compared to a late first round, or early second round pick (which is still why Josh Selby leaving early is mind boggling).

March Madness is the best time of year...but it can very quickly turn into a nightmare that you can't get away from. It seems to me that we need the ball to bounce the right way for us to get another shot at a NC, the last quality, 2008-caliber team was in 2011, and we all know how that ended. I don't know when we'll have another chance at that sort of team with players leaving early for the NBA. This is why @HighEliteMajor so eloquently proposed the question, would you rather have Embiid or Shepherd? If Shepherd (in the hypothetical sense at KU) is capable of developing significantly between his first and second year, thus giving KU a shot next year at an NC, yes. I have no doubt that by his third year, he'd be at a high enough level with the pieces around him to give us a shot at the NC. So again, yes, I'd take Shepherd (purposely sic) over Emiid. But he chose TCU over KU....so there's nothing we can do there...unless he transfers (not happening).

I guess what I'm getting at in this tirade is that I'd gladly trade places with ISU right now. I would no doubt trade places with Florida reaching four Elite Eights in a row. I'd rather be at team built for March, rather than one trying to pull off the trifecta of 2008 every year (winning the Big 12 season, tournament and the NCAA tournament. This is all very difficult to do). Think about it, look at UK, UConn, or even Wisconsin. These are teams that had serious question marks at some point in the season, but easily could be pulling themselves together just in time for a run at the NC. I'm sick of the March disappointments. I don't care about everything else. This is Kansas. I want to boast the mounting national championship victories, being the winningest program all time, not beating up on our little brothers every year only to get ousted once we get to the big boys table.

As always, RCJH.

I'd take Adams back. In the magical world where we could go back in time and undo his stupidity I would. He's headed to Auburn now. I wouldn't do it in reality, but as far as preferences go, I'd take him back, that's why I didn't understand why he was such a baby about not playing a ton his FRESHMAN year.

@wissoxfan83 Ya, they are incorrect. Joel has said numerous times this morning that he hasn't made a decision yet. These reports are incorrect. Yahoo already retracted them and apologized for the mistake.

And yes, that's a tweet from Joel

THIS REPORT IS NOT TRUE EVERYONE.....CALM DOWN

Joel-Hans Embiid ‏@jojo_embiid @humblekid11 haven't made a decision yet

LET ME REPEAT, THIS IS NOT TRUE

humblekid11 is Cliff Alexander...FYI

THIS REPORT IS NOT TRUE EVERYONE.....CALM DOWN

Joel-Hans Embiid
‏@jojo_embiid
@humblekid11 haven't made a decision yet

@jaybate 1.0 JB, I could be wrong, but didn't all three of those guys suffer injuries that limited their "pop"?

Tyshawn definitely suffered a knee injury and was still a mad man at getting to the rack...what I wouldn't give to have had TT on the team these last two years.

It could also have to do with these younger guys not being used to such a taxing schedule.

@KUSTEVE I honestly think that if Embiid wasn't going to the NBA he would've played yesterday. In a do or die situation like the tournament, I would think that decision would be easy.

And, Embiid has never said he's not turning pro. So that's one problem. And two, I think his parents are playing a bigger role than many of us may realize.

This whole prospect of striking while the iron's hot, etc. got me thinking, how many kids that truly believe this philosophy really know anything about it? What I'm saying is, how many of them think that Michael Jordan was drafted #1 overall (a three year college guy, I might add)? How about Kobe Bryant? Paul Pierce? My point is that those guys, especially Kobe, were drafted in places other than the top 5, and are staples to the NBA. If Marcus Smart has shown us anything, it's that you can only hurt your stock so much. He's still projected to be the sixth overall pick, and let's be honest, outside of punching Travis Ford in the nose, what more could he have done to absolutely murder his reputation? Doesn't seem to matter much.

The whole theory about "well you could get hurt" is a hollow concept. Destroying your knee can happen at any time...oh, might I take this moment to mention that Nerlens Noel had one of the most gruesome knee injuries I've ever seen. Anyone remember where he was drafted? That's right, sixth overall. So how much does it really matter? Injury prone? I still don't think it matters. The NBA drafts on potential alone. So unless Embiid loses an arm next year, he would still get drafted high. But with all due respect, his family seems fairly ignorant, and have bought into these theories, hook, line and sinker (I don't know if I've ever seen that expression spelled out, is that right?)

Such is the sad state of basketball now a days.

@HighEliteMajor I'll throw my hat into the ring on this one.

Three point shooting - I found myself struck by a weird similarity about halfway through the second half. I've been a Chicago Bears fan my entire life. And no team has been as inept in the passing game as the Chicago Bears. Long line of very good running backs, good running-game oriented O-lines, and strong defenses. Those are staples of football. Wear down your opponent, right? Not the case today. You can't win without a passing game. There's a reason why the Packers embarrass us ever year, and there's a reason why the Minnesota Vikings don't win a Super Bowl every year.

To me, that's the way it is in CBB. You absolutely must have a guy that can knock down an open look. I don't mean a guy who's going to make an open three 50% of the time, I mean 90%. Phil Forte, Brady Heslip, and James Young come to mind. We don't have that. Self didn't develop it. We paid the consequence in the round of 32. But we've griped about that all year.

Scheme - This game reminded me of the national championship against Kentucky from a few years ago. We couldn't go inside. It just wasn't an option today. We had some nice put backs, but we couldn't do what we did against EKU on this lineup. Yet, we kept absolutely bashing our heads against a brick wall. Still don't really understand why Lucas didn't get much of a look today. He's got a nice hook, and if nothing else he allows somebody other than Black to pick up a foul. Don't get me wrong, I was happy with Traylor's game against EKU but is he really that much better of an option than Lucas? I don't think so.

The case of Naadir Tharpe - Why did we stop recruiting Lyle again? I liked what I saw from Frankamp and Mason, but give me a big PG with handles all day. But as for reality, I think it's fairly open and shut. Naadir has been a terrible liability since the game in Stillwater. CF provided a better option, and Self ignored it. Don't know what the future holds, but I was greatly disappointed with Tharpe this postseason.

Self - Don't get me wrong, love Bill Self. Wouldn't trade him for anyone. But this is the second consecutive loss in the tournament that falls squarely on his shoulders. I think getting into the argument about when we started pressing is irrelevant. The reason I say this is because it seems that KU fans are of the mindset that "well, we're winning so why play aggressive." We knew that Stanford didn't have a PG coming into this game, and it showed. Don't wait until you're down to press, don't wait until they start coming back to press. Do it as often as you can (especially in the second half). Go for the jugular, don't let them breathe. That gives us momentum, fires our guys up and gives them confidence (that they desperately needed).

Oh, one more thing that I wanted to mention. Is Joel Embiid too stupid to lie? When asked if he would've been playing in the Sweet 16, Embiid said "absolutely." Him sitting out this long tells me he's already packed and ready to go to the NBA. I'm pretty pissed off about how this all went down. In part because of the exposure it got, and the amount of information that was out there. His father saying the he thought Embiid would "for sure" play at some point in the tournament made him sound like an idiot (in my opinion) because it makes it seem like he knew absolutely nothing about the tournament in the first place (i.e. it's a single elimination sort of deal). Second, if he was so certain that he would be playing again in a few days, it irritates me that there was no chance for him this weekend. Earlier in the year we all "oohed and ahhed" about how much Embiid liked KU and the things he said that made us think he'd be back. I think if he hadn't already made up his mind he would've played yesterday. But that's just me. The possibility that we were going to get matched up with a big team like Stanford was very likely. The simple fact is, we win if Embiid played yesterday.

I think I'd almost prefer it if he just came and out said he was gone, and that's why he hasn't played in a month.

@KUSTEVE Hm. Can't believe more people haven't commented on your post. Seems like a crowd that waits to speak rather than listening. Anyways...

Nail, meet hammer. You nailed it, buddy. For everyone being so terrified of UNM, a team that we beat by 20 when we didn't even play very well, I'm shocked to see such negativity. Don't forget that UNM has played in a very weak conference with their toughest opponent (SDSU) being one that is offensively inept. There is absolutely no reason to be so pessimistic. There will definitely be a pro-KU crowd in STL, and I think we should win by double digits. I can't help but think we got a pretty favorable bracket.

You also were dead on about Syracuse. Don't get me wrong, I'm personally pretty scared of Syracuse as they seem to have our number, but come on. You're right, this is a team that lost to a Boston College team that had 6 wins at the time...in mid-February...and the game was at Syracuse...then they turned around and lost to Georgia Tech at home. Face it, this is a year of teams that have gotten fat on weak schedules (for god's sake WSU's non-conference schedule was tougher than Syracuse).

The fact is UF and Syracuse may not be waiting for us in the Sweet 16 or E8. Florida is playing with a lot of pressure to win it all, and haven't lost a game in months. As KU fans, we should all know how bad that really is. I'm not saying UF can't do it, but I don't think it's beyond the bounds of reason to think that they could lose before the E8. As you pointed out, we lost to Florida by 6 on their home floor when we played our worst game of the season.

I can't say this enough, I'm about as pessimistic as it gets when it comes to KU, but I'm pretty excited about this year's tourney. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if we lost in the first or second round, but I don't think it's a fore drawn conclusion by any means.

Keep your heads up KU fans!

I can't believe what I'm hearing (reading). I'm a fairly pessimistic KU fan and I'm confident that we can easily make the Sweet 16.

I don't think we should have trouble with the first game as Eastern Kentucky has MAJOR weaknesses where we have strengths. They foul uncontrollably while we are good at getting to the line. They can't guard inside and we are a top 10 team in interior scoring. The only way this team beats us is if they shoot over 50% from the three point line, and don't foul...at all. I don't see that happening.

I won't disagree UNM is a tough draw, but what do you want? You play tough teams in the tournament. It's just reality. That being said, you're telling me that UNM is better than they were in December, well, so are we. I personally thought we played poorly against UNM and we beat them by 20. I think we'll be fine as long as we don't get out to a very sluggish start and let UNM jump out to a lead that they protect with outside shooting. UNM isn't a very good offensive team either, so I think we'll be fine. One other thing to note, UNM isn't very good offensively, and they've played weak competition, who's to say they for sure win against Stanford? Probably not a likely outcome, but it could happen. The same thing could be said for UF against UCLA. Have faith!

Past that, all bets are off. We become a new team in the Sweet 16. With Embiid back, we are a different animal. At this point, who cares about Florida or Syracuse. Nobody knows if they'll even be waiting for us.

I won't lie I was kinda pissed we didn't get the 2-seed in the MW...until I saw the bracket. No. Thanks. I like the expression from @wissoxfan83, stuff of nightmares. I've been saying all season long that WSU might not even get to the Sweet 16, but to see how likely it is...it's kind of surreal. For everyone complaining about drawing UNM in the second game, honestly tell me you'd rather play UK or KSU in the second round. No thanks.

Have some faith KU fans. Personally, I think this sets up pretty nicely for us.

@JRyman Personally I don't see Hoiberg going to the NBA anytime soon. Wouldn't surprise me, but I don't see it happening.

As for next year, year in year out, I expect ISU to fall off. They'll lose Ejim and Kane this year, but they still have some nice pieces in place. And Hoiberg will probably bring in some nice transfer pieces as always. I don't think ISU is going anywhere.

@JRyman In terms of dumb fan bases, Iowa St. is right up there with K-State and Mizery. I've met a lot of ISU fans, and they're all pretty respectful, but like most they're fairly ignorant. As soon as they won yesterday, they anointed themselves "Big 12 Champs." That's cute. A friend of mine who is an ISU alum was the first to throw that one my way, to which I promptly replied, "You're not the champs, you finished in fourth place. Remember :)"

I've known several ISU fans. I remember an ISU alum trying to talk shit on KU once. It was funny, I told him "In your four years at ISU, KU won the Big 12 every time, beat ISU all but once, went to two Final Fours, won a national championship, and oh ya, won the Orange Bowl. Some of KU's best years were at your school's expense."

This is where ISU fans are like Mizery and K-State turds. You can DROWN them in numbers, stats, reasons, justifications, etc. and like weeds, they keep coming back.

But that's ok. Let them have their fun. This is the pinnacle of success for them. ISU could lose in the first round to some nobody school, and they would be fine with having beat KU once. That's who they are. A joke.

@drgnslayr Lyle isn't considering KU anymore.

@jaybate 1.0 Wow, I needed that.

Didn't get to watch the game, but I feel like I didn't really need to (although I was kind of shocked that Ellis had 30 and we lost; at least that's what I was told). Without Embiid, Niang got to do whatever he wanted. Hoiberg could adjust defensively to smother Ellis in the post. And make no mistake, Niang is good.

All that being said, I'd like to comment on a couple of things. @jaybate 1.0 let me know what you think.

1) I have found myself agreeing with Self that the conference season is just too much. Playing a 18-game round robin schedule has been a nightmare. Then to cap it off with three games in three days against some of the best teams in the country is a little much. And as Self has said several times, beating a team three times in one year is asking a lot.

2) Being the one-seed in this tournament, I have found myself wondering if the competition of the Big 12 tournament may be better than any team we play up until the Elite 8 or Final Four (of course, if we get there). It remains to be seen, but it wouldn't surprise me. Think about it, we played OSU and ISU in the first two games. Compared to the B1G tournament where you've got Michigan sneaking by an awful Illinois team, Ohio St. getting mentally beat down by an awful Purdue and Nebraska team...or Villanova losing to St. Bonaventure (whatever, I don't know how to spell it), the Big 12 is scary good. I know I'd rather play any of those teams over a hot OSU team or a hot-shooting ISU team.

3) Now to get down to the nitty gritty. I wouldn't trade Self for the world. But I wonder if he really is this evil genius behind closed doors masterminding our run in the tourney. It's possible, but I'm reluctant to believe it all. KU should get beyond the first game of the tourney, and depending on the matchup, I'd like to believe we get beyond the second game (it all depends on match ups though). I don't know if I foresee Self breaking out a swarming zone in the tourney. He stubbornly clings to his man-to-man philosophy. I would love to see Self throw out all kinds of different defenses in the tournament (not to mention a full court press every once in a while), or when it's demanded and see KU beat someone like Florida by 20 because of it, but I don't know if I see it happening. If it does, I will be elated, but again, I'm reluctant to buy the evil genius concept.

4) Similar to the above point, losing this game could be a good thing and a bad thing. If we get a favorable seed (like the 2 or 3 in the midwest), then cross off the bad thing. It's only bad if it drops us in the seeding. Hopefully the committee will look at the fact that we've already beat ISU twice and lost a close game to them without our best player. Like you said JB, it does give us extra rest, which is essential.

Hopefully it works out. JB, you have given me some confidence, because you're right, things can be looked at favorably for KU, but a lot depends on what Self decides to do and when he decides to implement changes, which from the looks of it, will be necessary in the tournament.

RCJH

@drgnslayr You lost me at WSU. WSU won games over Ohio State and Gonzaga because they shot 50% and 40% from the three in those two games.

I haven't given up on this season, but I don't foresee us getting hot from three like that.

Following VCU's impressive (and heartbreaking) run to the Final Four in 2011, many college basketball pundits questioned whether Shaka Smart would be leaving the mid-major ranks and jumping into the deep end with the big boys. Smart ultimately turned down offers from bigger programs to stay with what he had built.

Underneath that surface action perhaps lies the truth. To me, Smart was afraid. Turning down the opportunity said that he did not believe he could be successful at the next level. Think about it. If VCU goes 15-16 does anyone really care? Does any administrator at VCU really care? Of course not. He's the savior that led the Rams to the promise land (at least in their eyes, because let's be real, a FF is untouchable to many low-tier schools. Just ask Mizery). Could Smart go to a UCLA and flounder? Could Smart afford to miss the tournament multiple years and keep his job? Of course not. So my question is, with the amount of success that Wichita St. has had in the past two years does Marshall strike while the iron is hot? Does he jump to an Oklahoma St.? It's an interesting question. Because let's be honest. How long can WSU fans remain loyal? If they go to the NIT next year, will anyone care? Of course not. So my question to you board rats is: Does Marshall leave WSU in the next year?

Now to a different topic entirely: KU's defense.

Why is it that Bill Self stubbornly clings to his man-to-man philosophy when we obviously lack the personnel to execute it? People say that KU will only go as far as Wiggins and Embiid will take us in the tourney. I think that we only go as far as Tharpe and Ellis take us, and if Wiggins and Embiid contribute their averages, it's a bonus. The problem is that those two variables (Tharpe and Ellis) are possibly our two worst defenders (not to mention soft at times). How vulnerable are we when we can't afford to have those two guys on the floor because of how much of a liability they are defensively? The answer I came to yesterday is that our ceiling is a sweet sixteen loss. So again, I ask you board rats: Why don't we have variations of defense?

I can probably answer that question myself. Self has said numerous times that when a team goes to zone, we've already got them beat. They've given up and are waving the white flag. Jim Boeheim disagrees, but that's not the point. The point is that with two of our players being so crucial to our tournament success, we need to find a way to mask our defensive deficiencies and find a way to keep them on the floor. Tharpe looked like a screen door yesterday (I'm referring to the play that @HighEliteMajor pointed out yesterday). Mason is a good alternative, but he's too foolish when it comes to driving on a triple team, and he doesn't have the shooting ability that Tharpe does (although I have been pleasantly surprised lately). We need Tharpe and Ellis' offensive contribution, but right now they're gaping defensive holes. We must find a solution. The solution is probably more obvious though: Zone.

Lastly, as for defensive strategies that Self stubbornly clings to, yesterday reminded me of the game against VCU in 2011. I found myself asking Self (that's right I talk to the TV), "are you going to wait until WV us up thirty before we start playing a full court press?" In the game against VCU, it seemed we had no choice, but when a team is hitting any shot they throw up the way WV was in the first half, we must speed them up, and turn that 35 second shot clock into a 25 second shot clock. This is another way to mask our deficiencies on defense. We will run into a hot-shooting team in the tournament. Mark it down. It's going to happen. We need to have a strategy to challenge that, because as of right now, we're content to just let them shoot. Not a good call. And what makes it even more frustrating is that when we do press, IT WORKS!!! We play it fairly well. We force timeouts, 5 second calls, and turnovers. So why don't we do it more often?

Help me out here board rats. I haven't posted in a while so this is kind of all coming out at once. Let me know what you think.

@JRyman I think it's funny that the general consensus is "at least these aren't atrocious like last year." That's always a good sign.

Self said that we weren't going to wear anything that other teams where anymore. I hope that's true next year. The KU uniform could be so cool, but for some reason we get lumped in with the Baylors, Wisconsins, and Notre Dames of college basketball. I don't like that. The model that was drawn up in January is perfect. We need to go with that.

@icthawkfan316 Very, very true. It's the reason why Ford may still be on the hot seat. OSU has three (kind of 4) really talented players on their team, and Ford provides nothing as a leader.

In terms of talent, it's as if he's got a supermodel in bed and doesn't know what to do. The fact is, he's not a very good coach. What's been killing me all day is that we played sooooo horrible last night and still should've won that game by double digits.

Lost in all of Smart's BS is that Markel Brown is the best player on that team. It's funny to me how he sneaks under the radar the way he does. He doesn't rely on theatrics to get his points like Smart does, he just plays ball. I don't really know what to say because I find myself liking Markel Brown while Smart represents everything that is wrong with basketball.

asdfasdf

@drgnslayr I like Jay Bilas. Maybe now's a good time to express how much I can't stand Brent Musberger. Maybe that's unfair....

But clearly he doesn't know the game or the players, and is just all around oblivious to what's going on. Stick him with Fran Franschilla (who I do like, but doesn't offer much to counter Brent's ineptitude) and it's bad news bears.

I didn't get to watch the game last night, I listed to it on the radio. Don't know if anyone likes Bob Davis, but that's a whole nother deal.

@drgnslayr I think we're just going to keep repeating ourselves here. Let's just agree to disagree.

...Now all I can think of is Marcus Smart. Very irritated now.

@bskeet @drgnslayr ^^^ Now that is something I'll agree with. If we're going to go singing WSU praises, how bout their defense (albeit against NAIA teams)? Their offense is average at best, but defense is the kind of thing that travels and can be turned up against anyone.

@drgnslayr We're getting far removed from the point now.

You said why does WSU show up pumped and ready to play. I think the point is that they're playing a team that is .500 in a historically bad conference. WSU is by far the superior team. How pumped do you need to be to beat Missouri St.?

Your comparison of a historically phenomenal women's team is just proving the point for me (I mean didn't UConn go undefeated for two seasons??). When you're playing a team that is significantly inferior to you, how pumped do you need to be?

KU was playing a team that had 3 future NBA players on it (I'm point out how talented OSU is, not that NBA players are prepared and motivated every game...and it doesn't hurt that they were fighting for the postseason fate). WSU won't have play a game against a team with that kind of talent until the round of 32, or the Sweet Sixteen.

To put it simply, how pumped does WSU need to be to play Evansville, Loyola, S. Illinois, etc. The comparison doesn't work. It's a poor one.

It doesn't matter though. No need to apologize. And you could never, ever, be as big of jerk as Marcus Smart.

@drgnslayr What I said is a lineup of the coach's sons could give Missouri St. a run for their money. You know, the team WSU played this weekend. I guess you misunderstood what I was saying.

I think comparing KU's game yesterday versus a team that has 3 NBA players on it to Missouri St. is ignorance. I think it's very, very ignorant.

@drgnslayr You know that's an ignorant post, right? I mean, I enjoy your opinion, but you have to know that's flat out ignorance.

Why doesn't Marshall's guys TO the ball 22 times in a game? Why do Marshall's guys always show up pumped to play?

Well, besides the fact that a I think a lineup of Niko, Self, Manning, Wesley, and Christian Garret could probably give Missouri St. a run for their money, it seems kind of obvious. I don't want to bash WSU because right now, they're in fabulous position. But come on.

I saw a stat yesterday that was mind-boggling. If WSU gets a one-seed, which we all think they will, their first game against a 16 seed would be the toughest opponent they've faced outside of SLU! That's incredible.

I agree with everything you said outside of the WSU nonsense. Tharpe is a liability. He's a below average defender and has several games where it almost seems like he's point shaving when it comes to dumb turnovers. If he has a single game like this in the tourney, we're done. Either that or Self will have to sit him for a loooong stretch just to keep him from giving away possessions.

These are simply my favorite posts.

@wrwlumpy Speaking of storming the court, can you believe that UNC stormed the court last night??? Unbelievable.

With every loss that Oklahoma State accumulates, Travis Ford's seat is getting hotter and hotter. With the amount of talent that he has on that team, it is inexcusable to have had such an atrocious season. This is compounding the fact that OSU hasn't made it past the first weekend of the tournament since 2005. Marcus Smart, Lebryan Nash, and Markel Brown all decided to come back for another season when each of them could have easily jumped to the NBA all to compete for a championship. But as of right now, they may not even get the chance to be in the field.

Marcus Smart has imploded on himself, showing immaturity on several occasions this season, and showing more importantly that nobody has sought to develop his character, as well as his game.

When Smart shoved the Texas Tech "superfan" during the closing minutes of their loss to another unranked team, many KU fans said, "this would never happen if he played for KU," and "Self wouldn't stand for this." This is probably true. But the simple fact is, Coach Self is in Lawrence, and Marcus Smart is in Stillwater. That right there is the dilemma. If anyone has shown the nation that talent doesn't win championships without a strong-minded and intelligent coach at the helm, it's coaches in the Big 12. We all laugh at the Scott Drews, Travis Fords, and Rick...Barneses of the world, but we as KU fans may soon enter another unsure period in our rich basketball history.

With every loss, Travis Ford inches closer and closer to being fired. What happens this time when T. Boone Pickens comes calling for Self? What happens when he offers an astronomical figure of say $8 million/year? Can Self turn it down? I would like to think that yes, he can and will. Because I don't think this is all about money. I think KU would be put in a position where they'd have to match, or at least come close to it. Even then, there are the intangibles that KU offers, that OSU does not. Let's take simple fan attendance for example (of course there is more).

But the question remains "what if?" As KU fans, we' been burned before (which makes me think. I've been reading "100 things KU fans should know before they die," why didn't KU make a serious play at Dean Smith in the 1970s or late 1960s? But I digress). Coaches leaving for their alma mater is of course the exception, not the rule. But KU b-ball could be facing another coaching crossroads in the near future.

Thoughts?

Brandon Rush was at KU for three years. But a good read nonetheless. Although I would argue that Darrell Arthur was the best player on that team.

@wissoxfan83 Well, they're probably pig farmers. But that being said, I'd hate to know what I've looked like during KU games in the past.

@JayHawkFanToo That's a really interesting article. You're right, he does have an unbelievable platform, but he's hardly as accurate as most give him credit for.

Although, I don't agree with where we are right now as a 3 seed, I'd take it. Honestly, a 2 seed in the bracket with WSU as the 1 could possibly be better than a 1. When we made it to the NC in 2012, our path to the tourney wasn't all that hard until the Elite Eight. This team could very well make it to the FF if given a similar path, which is a lot of luck, but nice nonetheless.

@Lulufulu85 With the next two games coming up, Embiid can get close to two weeks off. We play TCU at home on Saturday, and then Texas Tech on the road on Tuesday. With our depth Lucas and Traylor can cover us on Saturday, which would also allow Black to get some rest after hurting his ankle again against K-State. If necessary we could bring Black back against Texas Tech, but even then I think that Traylor and Lucas can play well enough to get by Tech. Then bring back Embiid and Black for a big game next Saturday against Texas. Depth is a wonderful thing.

@DinarHawk He's saying that because of the investment in Wiggins he wants a national title. Not because of him he's expecting one.

If you're not looking for anything more than a nice couple of games in the tournament, you might as well develop guys that want the ball, that want to score and win games against a team like K-State. Wiggins' minutes could go to any number of players. Might even force Tharpe to be more aggressive. You could see that when Tharpe wanted a shot last night, he created it like a surgeon. Navigated to the open spot on the floor and drilled the shot. When he's just looking to be a complement to Wiggins, he's not doing enough. It's one thing if Wiggins is hot and can't miss to look for him, but when we needed points, Tharpe needs to be the leader that he is.

And @joeloveshawks is exactly right. The Big 12 streak is great, but I'd trade any of them for a couple Final Fours or a couple national championships.

They were hurt, in foul trouble, sucking wind and about to go into overtime and we didn't capitalize.

@tis4tim Yep. Very disappointing.

I've seen different comments that have said KSU had more energy than us, blah, blah, blah. Bottom line, K-State isn't a very good team. I just don't see it. The reason the game was tied at half is because K-State played badly in the first half and we played worse. In the second half, our defense was atrocious. Tharpe is a liability on the defensive end, and we just couldn't get stops. We made a garbage offense look like an offensive juggernaut. I never thought I'd see the day where Will Spradling would be draining spot up threes like Ray Allen. Absolutely gut wrenching.

Thought Greene played pretty well. It was nice to see him create some shots, which is something I think has been his problem this year. But that turnover in OT was absolutely devastating.

If Embiid is hurt, sit him. He does us no good if he's hurt and continues to play when we have three players that can fill his role for now (especially with TCU and TT coming up).

This loss isn't the end of the world, sure. But we could easily get 2-3 more before the tournament. With every loss, no matter how good or bad the other team is, our chance at a good seed fades. It's too bad because when we were given a 1 seed by many of the "experts" it was a double-edged sword because it meant that we couldn't lose another game with the teams in front of us. Arizona, Syracuse, WSU, SDSU, and maybe Florida are all significantly ahead of us by virtue of the fact the their conferences are terrible. WSU and SDSU could easily finish conference play undefeated, and Arizona and Syracuse may have 1-2 losses by tourney time. Now we're in the position where every loss, no matter how good or bad the opposing team, gets us further and further from a 2 seed. I will say this though, we get a 2 seed with WSU as the 1, that may be just as good or better than a 1.

Don't know what to say. I'm still pissed off. I hate losing to K-State.

@drgnslayr The UK-Louisville rivalry is nonexistent to me. I could not possibly care less about it, regardless of where it ranks. Nobody outside of the state of Kentucky does. Besides my opinion, when WSU wins three national titles, then you can talk about us missing the opportunity to develop an in-state rival. Right now, it just seems like a knee jerk reaction.

I don't live in Wichita and can't stand WSU fans. And saying that K-State isn't up to it, I'm sorry, but neither is WSU. Why? Because they had a good season (and a half)? Sorry, I just don't buy it. The whole argument, I just don't see it. If WSU can turn into a Louisville as you've stated, then maybe we can talk about it. But right now, I'm with Bill on this one. Too little to gain. I still love how Self said, 'our schedule is made to help our program, not somebody else's.'

The lack of a rival will kill KU's success? How? We've had Texas, K-State, ISU, and OKST in the last several years. Personally, I liked the rivalry with UT. That was always the fun game to watch. I just don't think we're that desperate for one that jumping in with the flavor of the week is worth it. I'm biased of course, but the Big 12 is awesome. So many personalities and story lines.

But anyways, I feel like you're trying to force a round peg into a square hole with this one.

@icthawkfan316 @JayHawkFanToo I have mixed feelings on WSU. On the one hand I've watched KU play arguably the toughest schedule of any team ever. On the other, I've watched WSU play arguably the weakest.

I've watched WSU play a few times. I watched the game against Illinois St., and like @JayHawkFanToo I was not impressed. I couldn't help but think if Illinois St. wasn't absolutely terrible, this wouldn't be a close game. ISU went down the floor, either when they were down, or up and just jacked threes all night. This happened over and over again until WSU had taken the lead and the outcome was inevitable.

But I'm sure WSU does have a difficult time scheduling home and homes. Going to Wichita, KS does little for any school. It's not a fertile recruiting area, and KU has it sewn up anyways. And second, it's Wichita, KS. Self could tell recruits last year, 'well, we'll be going to the Bahamas, Florida, Colorado, and Chicago. Next year we'll be traveling to San Diego, NYC, and Hawaii (I think).' Other big name programs have similar opportunities, so why go to Wichita. Imagine if WSU was in Topeka (TSU). This would not be an argument as far as why people don't want to go there. But I digress.

I almost want to see KU schedule WSU so we can shut them up. But then again, what happens when they lose this batch of players and go another 10 years without making the tournament. I'd rather play Belmont in AFH.

One last thing, I don't think WSU fans realize how bad it is to get so fat from beating awful teams. When we lost to UNI, I think a big reason for that was that the Big 12 wasn't very good that year and we didn't really have to play anybody good. It's hard to turn it on like a light switch come tourney time. They'll be last years Gonzaga in the tourney this year.

@RockChalkinTexas Ya. My mom went to the game and asked me if I thought it would be sold out, and I said of course, KU's coming to town. This may be the only time.

@RockChalkinTexas Well, it was nice to see Texas fans remembered they had a basketball team. Has it really been so long since the days of Durant, Aldrige, Abrams, Ford, and Augustine that Texas fans are so inane? Seems like a possibility.

That girl is absolutely gorgeous.