🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@jaybate-1.0 Football and basketball recruiting are two very different animals. In college football, you have 9 assistant coaches on staff that are on field and allowed to travel to recruit. KU, or any other program for that matter have only 2 guys focused on recruiting. It's more like 7 guys focused on recruiting out on the road during the week. The HC, OC, and DC do not spend nearly as much time on the road during the season because of their game planning responsibilities. The film study now is pretty advanced because there is a company out there that will actually break down game film at the NFL, college, and even HS level by play types, what they run on specific down and distances, time left, etc. This is a paid service so not everyone uses it, but it really cuts down on the amount of time spent analyzing film because everything is already categorized. That said, it is the still the those 3 who come up with the overall game plan each week.

Beaty did hire a lot of other really good recruiters as his position coaches which is why KU's recruiting has picked up the past couple of seasons from Weis. Turner Gill also had a lot of really good recruiters on his staff which is why his one full class was a highly ranked class by KU standards. David Beaty's primary job now as a recruiter is to talk to recruits over the phone, either actual calls or texts, and to close the deal when his assistants get kids to campus for official and unofficial visits.

The Jim Tressel analogy does work because of the question of you asked. You asked could an NDSU level coach, Youngstown St. was at the top of the FCS food chain under Tressel, recruit B12 level talent right out of the gate if they were hired by a B12 school. Tressel and OSU are B10 obviously, but for a program like OSU to hire someone from the FCS ranks, that was a huge risk for the program because we've seen what can happen to historically dominant programs when they are down, and hire a new coach. Nebraska has never fully recovered from Bill Callahan, Miami hasn't recovered from Randy Shannon, ND was way down for a long time, Michigan is only now recovering from Rich Rodriguez, Texas is struggling big time under Charlie Strong, Florida tanked under Muschamp. Those weren't even FCS to FBS hires, but those were still bad hires that set historically great programs back significantly and some still have yet to recover.

KU failed at following up Glenn Mason with Terry Allen from the FCS ranks so it is absolutely a risk, no matter where level the football program is at, to hire an FCS coach straight to the FBS level.

I didn't see anything last night to change my opinion on this team or the overall direction of the program right now. We know Cozart, Willis, and Stanley are not the future at QB so I don't care who plays the position right now because none of them are good enough to beat top level teams which OU absolutely is. The game stayed closer longer than I expected so that was encouraging for the defense which I still think will be pretty good next year even with the departures in the back 7 because the DLine should be returning in tact and with more depth next year. Joe Dineen will be back at LB next year and Mike Lee is going to be a special one at Safety for KU.

The OLine should get a boost next year with the Alabama transfer and those young guys getting another year of experience. The biggest question mark for KU football next year is will Tyriek Starks be ready to run the show because he is the future at QB for Kansas football. Beaty has already said that Starks is the true dual-threat style QB that he wants for his system so Beaty's job will depend on how fast he can get Starks ready to go.

As bad as the offense looks right now, I do believe KU has already hit rock bottom and that was the 2015 season and this year has seen quite a bit of improvement in multiple areas and now the focus is just on building depth and gaining experience and I do think that KU can contend for a bowl game by years 4 or 5. I think the progress that David Cutcliffe made at Duke should be a similar time frame for KU and Cutcliffe did not get Duke bowl eligible until year 5 in charge of that program. KU beat Duke 44-16 in Cutcliffe's second year at Duke in 2009 before the bottom fell out for KU that year and then we saw where Cutcliffe had taken Duke by year 7 when they thumped KU in Durham 41-3. It wasn't an overnight process, but Cutcliffe was allowed the time to recruit players to his system and he was able to have some success peaking in 2013 playing in the ACC title game.

That's the model KU needs to look at with regards to giving David Beaty time. Cutcliffe went 4-8 in year 1, 5-7 in year 2 so people probably thought that Duke would be bowl bound in year 3, but Cutcliffe regressed to 3-9 in both year 3 and 4 before finally getting Duke bowl eligible in year 5. Beaty needs time because Weis left this program a complete mess and even if Beaty never turns around the record, he needs 5 years just to get scholarship numbers back to normal and get KU back into a normal recruiting cycle instead of the very out of whack class numbers KU currently has thanks to Weis.

@jaybate-1.0 said:

Could an NDSU LEVEL coach sign B12 caliber talent without having been recruiting it the last 4-5 years? That is always my concern about reaching down to coaches that have built winners at small schools.

Would keeping Beatty the recruiter, and finding a new OC be more feasible a building path?

Or do you get a guy that can run a program and he hires some assistants with recruiting pipilines?

Yes, an NDSU level coach can have quick success at a P5 school. It is because of the assistant coaches he hires. College football is a completely different animal in recruiting than basketball is because you know you're going to be signing 20+ kids every year and offering scholarships to hundreds of players each year. You also really only have about 2 years to recruit someone in football as opposed to 3-4 years in basketball in most cases. Football also has nothing close to the AAU like baksetball does so shoeco. influence in football recruiting is almost non existent.

Football recruiting is all about the relationships between assistant coaches at the college level and the HS football coaches because those HS coaches usually have the most influence over a HS football recruit. KU rarely went into Louisiana to recruit kids before this past year, but now with Tony Hull, KU is successfully landing New Orleans area kids.

You generally don't see FCS coaches jump straight to winning P5 programs, but the big exception there is Jim Tressel who won 4 national titles in 15 seasons at Youngstown St. and was hired by Ohio St. straight from YSU.

Since you specifically brought up NDSU, the man who built that program is currently tge gead coach at Wyoming and is doing quite well for himself there in year now after struggling us first two years in Laramie. They knocked Boise St. off last night and sit at 6-2 overall and 4-0 in MW play over BSU. He's getting that program turned around and it probably won't be long before he lands a P5 job, most likely Nebraska when Mike Riley decides to retire in the near future and then we can see what his system does in the P5.

Helluva match and a huge win for the Hawks. Don't bloody each other up celebrating tonight though.

I would trade the entire conference title streak for any one of the national titles KU could've win betwwen 2010 and last year. As great as the streak is, KUis a program judged by what they do in March and April every season. I want a national title.

@stoptheflop Neither Cozart nor Willis are the future at QB so I don't care who plays this year. Tyriek Starks is the future at QB and Beaty is just trying to get to where Starks is ready to run the show.

@JayHawkFanToo Chalmers is out until at least mid season because of his achilles injury last season. He may get picked up towards the end of the year by a team devastated by injury like Memphis was or a playoff team that needs some extra depth in the back court.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Chalmers is done in the NBA and heads overseas when healthy.

@JayHawkFanToo 7 NCAA tournament appearances in 25 years pre 1980 is not bad. Duke in the pre Coach K era was a good, not great, program.

Brad Stevens is not coming back to college basketball anytime in the near future, especially if a school would have to buy out his NBA contract.

Self either retires a Jayhawk or goes to the NBA. No chance he goes to Duke.

There is one name on the Coach K tree that may get serious consideration depending on when Coach K retires and that is Notre Dame coach Mike Brey. Brey has been pretty successful at ND especially the past couple of seasons with back to back Elite 8 appearances and could keep Duke as a top level program because he knows how to recruit to an elite academic school. Brey is currently 57 so he would not be a long term answer, but that's a name to keep an eye on as a top candidate.

I still think Jerod Haase is ultimately going to be the man to replace Self at KU as long as he doesn't bomb at Stanford.

@kjayhawks DLine will only get better with more experience, Dineen will be back, Mike Lee is going to be really good. As long as Bowen is coaching them, they will be fine next year and probably better too.

@kjayhawks It's a learning process for them, it will happen eventually.

@kjayhawks How long have people been saying they just want to see KU be competitive though?

KU is gettimg to the point where they're beimg competitive against decent teams more frequently. Progress isn't as fast as we want, but it's there and now the next step is to put together consecutive good games. The wins will come eventually.

That should've been a flag

Cozart made the wrong read on the zone read there.

That tipped INT was bad luck more than anything. Quiv normally has those.

@wissoxfan83 FS1

@BeddieKU23 UCLA had a system in place with Wooden, Indiana had a system in place with Knight, UNC had a system in place with Smith. Missouri had a system in place with Stewart.

Having a system in place doesn't guarantee the next coach keeps a program elite. UCLA has not been elite since Wooden, a few years here and there, but nothing consistent. Indiana had a long stretch of being down not long after Knight. Bill Guthridge kept UNC good for his 3 years and when he hung it up, UNC fell off a cliff for a couple of years. Missouri has only had a few decent years since Norm Stewart retired after being a consistently very good program for a long time under Stewart.

I just don't see a coach out there that can do what Coach K has done at Duke to the level Coach K has done it at. Duke will likely still be a consistent top 25 team, but I don't see them staying a national title contender just about every year like they are now once Coach K's players filter through the program after his retirement.

@kjayhawks Wyman has the leg and end of half/game situations are not the same as other points in the game. In an end of half situation, I don't mind seeing the kicker trotted out to the edge of their range for an attempt because there are less nehatives that can happen than if it's in the middle of a quarter.

@DanR Navy blue like mid 2000's

@BeddieKU23 Duke will still be pretty good when Coach K retires because they had a solid history with multiple Final Four's prior to Coach K, but Coach K is one of the 3 greatest college coaches of all time so there's no way they stay as good once he retires.

I don't mind trying the kick because Wyman has the range, but that clock operator did KU no favors on that drive. What happened to home field advantage?

Not a great sequence to end the half.

Throw the Hail Mary there!

Our clock operator sucks today

Wyman made one!

It's amazing how much the DLine has improved from the start of the year.

Hope Roger Goodell didn't see Cozart's celebration.

Perfect pass by Cozart there

Please don't be on us

This defense is fun to watch this year.

Mike Lee is going to be really good very soon.

@kjayhawks They're just buying time until Tyriek Starks is ready, hopefully next year.

@kjayhawks Keegan actually made a comment that made a lot of sense why Cozart is starting today. Cozart hasn't been sacked this year and hasn't turned the ball over like Willis has and OSU does both well. Willis had a chance to win the job and didn't do it so back to Willis.

@kjayhawks Batum averaged 15-6-6 last year for the Hornets which were career highs in points and assists. With the salary cap having skyrocketed the past two years, guys like Batum can pull down $20 mil/year. Kemba Walker will probably be in $25 mil/year and up range next time his deal is renegotiated.

@wissoxfan83 Batum is a Frenchman who was a solid player for the Blazers for a long time.

The Big 12 will be carved up after the current TV deal is done and KU will likely end up in the Big 10.

The small ball line up is for substitution purposes and not as an all the time deal.

@kjayhawks I believe Cummings chose not to seek a medical redshirt and to just move on to the real world after he graduated.

I could see Wiggins go to the Raptors because he could end being one of the biggest heroes in Canadian sports if he went to the Raptors and ever led them to a title. He would also make an insane amount of money in endorsements with Canadian companies if he went to Toronto.

@KUSTEVE There's 120 minutes to go around in the back court at the 1-3 positions. Vick may end up being a good player, but he's 5th in the rotation and based on history and there's no way Graham, Jackson, and Mason don't average 90-95 of those 120 minutes. Svi may end up in the 20 minute range if KU plays small as much as Self has indicated KU could, but I just don't see a scenario for Vick to play 20 mpg without injury or suspension being related and I know nobody here wants to see either of those happen.

@Crimsonorblue22 I think that answer largely depends on what Beaty's vision for the Air Raid is. If it's more like the Texas Tech version where the ball is being passed 60 times a game, tyen someone in the mold if Willis with the huge arm is the way to develop the position going forward and Willis would be the best fit for that version of the Air Raid.

If Beaty wants to go more towards the Baylor version that is a run heavy version, then a mobile QB like Stanley or Starks is probably the way to go.

If it's a version like what Sumlin runs at A&M that Beaty saw first hand, then you need a QB who's a playmaker and KU doesn't have that as of now.

Me personally, I wouldn't bail on Willis just yet because he didn't get to fully participate in spring football last year and I'd like to see what kind progress he can make while going through spring practice and getting those 15 practices. If he doesn't clealry separate himself from Cozart, Stanley, and Starks in the spring, then I would focus on developing Willis as the back up and letting Stanley and Starks battle for the starting QB job in the fall.

The only answer for the offense is time and I don't mean weeks, I mean years. This is Clint Bowen's 4th year running the defense, running the same system, and recruiting to that system. Even as bad as yesterday was, there was a difference in the performance of the defense. Only 450 yards, only 49 points, I know Baylor played their second string most of the second half, the defense still was better than in years past because Baylor was putting their second string on before halftime and still going into the 60's and putting up 700+ yards even with the second and third string in. That didn't happen yesterday. The defense also only gave up 5 yards per carry which is also much improved from years past against Baylor when they would have 8 or 9 ypc. That is progress folks.

That does not mean the defense is there yet obviously, but it was an improved performance from years past and the defense will only get better as the depth improves and the players get older because there's a lot of players who will still be here 2 or 3 more years getting lots of reps this year.

The offense is 2-3 years behind where the defense is today. The only fix for the offense is time and to continue to build depth and gain experience. KU already has a great, young receiving corp, and a solid group of running backs. Those are position groups though that have always had the ability to contribute immediately. The OLine and QB positions do not usially have that luxury. It takes time to add bulk to a body, it takes time to learn how to run an offense efficiently. There is no substitute for that time on the field, in the film room, and in the weight room, there just isn't.

Even if Beaty proves he's not the answer, he still needs the 5 years to establish depth and consistency in the program to give the next coach a chance to have some early success.

@HawkChamp As big as UA is, his role is going to be to intimidate and keep people out of the lane. A couple of clean, hard fouls early on will make opponents think twice about journeying into the paint.

@drgnslayr UA doesn't need to defend without fouling this year. He's just not going to play enough to need to play without fouling this year. LL probably plays 30 mpg or so this year so UA will probably play about 10 mpg this year which means he can play muscleball defense and make opponents regret venturing into the lane.

Not surprising. Dumping the Big 12 paves the way for an easy set up for an 8 team playoff and ESPN and Fox to each make money. The Big 12 TV contract runs through 2025 and the current CFP contract runs through 2027. After those two deals are up, expect to see the CFP expand to 8 teams. Fox already has the rights to the PAC 12 and B10 title games and ESPN has the rights to the SEC and ACC title games so I would expect to see those two networks alternate the title game. Part of this condition is probably ensuring each B12 team lands in one of the other major conferences as well. KU, KSU, and ISU probably in the B10, WVU to the ACC, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, and TCU to the PAC 12, and OU, and OSU to the SEC. Maybe not that specific breakdown, but probably not far off either because ESPN and Fox probably tell the other major conferences who they will take in exchange for finishing off the B12 for good.

Expect to see the B10 and PAC 12 conference title games on Fox and the winners of those two meet in the semifinals alternating between the Rose and Fiesta Bowls with the losers of those two playing in the other game. That would leave the SEC and ACC title games on ESPN with those winners alternating between the Sugar and Orange Bowls and losers meeting in the other bowl game. Then ESPN and Fox alternate the national title game each year.

I seriously doubt we ever see a KU line up (outside of garbage time) that doesn't involve either Mason or Graham on the floor because KU doesn't have a third PG on the roster worthy of important minutes. Svi's ball handling abilities are good enough to be the second guy, but not lead guard against D1 competition. Vick was turnover probe last year so unless that's improved over the summer, Vick shouldn't be handling the ball in any capacity that a PG normally would.

Unfortunately not making it back to the promised land, but I should be able to see KU 4 times this year. I got lucky and was able to get UNLV tickets the day they went on presale. I was just checking to see the on sale date becayse it said mid-October when I checked in August, so apparently Oct. 6 is considered mid-October now. So now I'm waiting for December to roll around so I can get Baylor, TCU, and Texas tickets.

I know TCU tickets go on sale Dec. 19 for anyone interested and capable of going and UT and Baylor should be going on sale around that time as well.

I can't handle this, I need an adult!

@globaljaybird No idea, never been in that building. I believe it's UNLV's home court though so whenever their next game is on TV, it'd be easy enough to check and see.

@nuleafjhawk Finesse doesn't explicitly mean a lack of toughness. Finesse just means you game is more skill based than power based. To me, skill based means you have multiple moves in your repertoire and power based are guys that are naturally stronger than others and depend on that strength and have a limited repertoire of moves.

@nuleafjhawk Perry played tough against WVU, but the team overall is still a finesse team and didn't fight back against WVU's bullying.