@BShark said in Dayton Game Thread:
25% from 3, 45% from the FT line.
Shooters shoot.
benshawks08
4625 posts
@Marco said in Dayton Game Thread:
It's like he wants them to lose.
He very well might. If this is the effort on the defensive end he may not want a win.
@BeddieKU23 said in Dayton Game Thread:
Bill is a joke today
He’s flipped his lid watching all his guards refuse to do just that. All reason has left and emotion is ruling the decisions now I guess.
Has yesefu played this half?
@approxinfinity said in Dayton Game Thread:
I mean what does Self want here. Wilson sits there watching the 3 he contested from out of bounds then the rebound goes directly his direction
He was practicing during that suspension right? Like why is he getting all the playing time when offering nothing on either end.
Great d by Remy there
Really stands out after watching the Baylor bigs roll so hard and dunk everything.
Speaking of people being in a position to score and just not…
Wilson…
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Dayton Game Thread:
@KirkIsMyHinrich said in Dayton Game Thread:
I know Clemence and KJ are freshman but Dave isn't it today.
Defense would actually be worse with Clemence in right now.
He does NOT move his feet on d.
@Marco said in Dayton Game Thread:
Dave cannot start. Period.
Got off to a good start this game honestly.
Yes, och, Braun, Remy, kj.
I’d like to see Yes back in for a bit. At least he was bringing energy.
And Dave literally stealing points from his teammates.
Wilson had braun for a lob but missed it.
These refs…
Attacking the Remy Dave side of the court will be a headache all year.
@KirkIsMyHinrich Remy still getting yanked for defensive mistakes…
Och still yet to disappear this year. A good sign.
@wissox he pointed and yelled on your head at the guy.
@BShark said in Dayton Game Thread:
@Kcmatt7 said in Dayton Game Thread:
I think he could show more than Harris if given the time
He's easily better than Dajuan lol
Individually on the offensive end probably but not as an overall team player on both sides of the floor.
Remy. Lol
@wissox Braun having a real good game so far.
@KirkIsMyHinrich they can bring in toppin if we get doke.
Anyone know the last time Dave won a tip?
@drgnslayr I wonder how much of this type of defensive style Self might use this year. He's got the guys up top to disrupt the opponent getting into their sets. Seems to be part of the plan for this team to reach its full potential.
Do you really think we will run with Jalen at the 5? I'll believe it when I see it.
@BeddieKU23 Yeah, the game is easier when you physically outmatch the opponent at every position.
@mayjay About to give up on the good fight myself. I'll be moving out of the classroom for the first time in January. Know that I did what I could for the appropriate use of commas in my time as a teacher. Unfortunately, there are currently some bigger fights in education.
My favorite post Texas tweet from the KU athletics account.
@BeddieKU23 said in Let's talk about Bill.....:
After 2 games I would say post play in general is our top overall weakness I see. Mitch is the current backup, enough said. He is however good in certain matchups. It comes down to having a consistent rebounder and rim protector. I think when Self has a dude down low that offenses fear he dials up pressure real well on the perimeter.
This is what I've observed as well. The question is whether he can get the pressure dialed up with just the guards. Dave has shown a little better instances of rim protection this year and at the end of last year. I feel like we are starting to see some double teams in the post to try to get the ball moving for the other team because I think we'll probably have a speed advantage on the perimeter most games.
@BShark We are giving up points but definitely feels like we are playing high possession games so the D numbers could actually be there. But I never know how Kenpom comes up with numerically based pre-season rankings...
@Marco said in Let's talk about Bill.....:
@benshawks08 bro, I'm with you, and I've gotten flack for it. He's too inconsistent and lacks desire. He has accumulated some good games, when we lacked talent. We don't lack talent now. 22 mpg tops. Mitch 6 mpg, or maybe less.
Would never say he lacks desire. If anything he may want it too much...
@BeddieKU23 said in Non-KU Games:
Gonzaga is the worst matchup in the country for KU imo. Timme when he plays like that will be POY. We have nothing that could stop him from getting 30+. Holmgren is the shot blocker among other things. Imagine Dave trying to finesse score his way over a 7 footer with great block instincts. We'd feed the post anyway like usual and lose trying. I'm not saying Gonzaga is a better team overall, I just think they are the worst matchup for KU.
Gonzaga's guard play isn't even close to as good as last season. We know what Bolton is, Nembhard is the catalyst but more of a playmaker then scorer. They have the two freshman guards KU recruited + Julian Strawther a wing KU was after that I liked a good deal.
I think they caught Texas at the right time. Texas was without Vandy transfer Disu that's supposed to be a big part of their frontcourt. What was left to guard the Zag's frontcourt was a few 6'8 types and that's not going to cut it. If you take away Timme going 15-19 from the field Gonzaga shot 42%. This is an outlier game for Gonzaga overall. The game simply came down to Texas inability to stop one guy. Texas definitely looked like a team that doesn't know how to play with each other against good teams yet. 2nd game in a tough environment on the road. Might see a different outcome if they played in March
As I've read more about this freshman I'd have to agree. Looks like they are the team to beat right now and likely will stay that way most of the year.
So real talk, what is the key weakness that will prevent this team from winning the title?
What is the strength that could lead us to a championship?
For me the weakness unfortunately is Dave and the inside presence in general. He is just not an elite big man and he's the only one we've got. I know people keep saying Zach needs to play but is he really a solid low post presence on both ends? Luckily Dave does seem to be jumping a little better this year and so is a threat on lobs with our guards driving from every angle. Which leads me to the second question.
The strength is easy. Guards. Oach, Remy, Harris, and Bobby are a group that can just take over a game with their speed and athleticism on both ends of the floor. We all know guards win in March. I'm hoping Och has truly developed some killer instinct that we've been dying for him to have since he pulled that redshirt and blew our socks off.
@Marco I'd say riding the pine might be a bit tough. I feel like his value is that most of the time he can be counted on to do the things Bill knows he can do and then not venture too far out of that comfort zone. Self can tell Mitch, "go do this" and then have younger players getting coached on the sidelines watching how he goes and does that thing. But yeah, 5-10 minutes should be about the MAX per game for that kind of role.
@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
A measurement of a player's per minute performance. Avg is considered 15. Takes everything into account- offense/defense/turnovers/fouls. It's then adjusted to each player to a per-minute basis, also adjusted for pace of the game.
I'm still unclear how "defense" is represented as so much of that is more of a team concept than an individual one. Like some players can gamble for steals or blocks because they are counting on rotational help, etc.
Someone like Harris I would imagine gets little credit for sticky on ball defense that leads to stressed passes that may result in a steal, shot clock violation, or just overall stress on the opponent because how would ANYONE go about measuring that.
With that said, I do recognize it's about as good as we have as a numerical measure as long as it isn't viewed as the ONLY measure of value to the team.
The Harris/RussRob/Bobby/Sherron comparison I think is a good one. Sherron was an ASSET off the bench because when he came in he changed the game and Bobby has that potential as well. Harris is a stable player who can be trusted to defend at a high level and move the ball on a team where there are already 3 guys who NEED the ball in their hands (Och, Remy, Dave). His ability to facilitate and get them going early is valuable to the team beyond his individual ability to score.
When Bobby comes in, he changes the tempo of the game and adds a wrinkle for the other team to have to figure out. All of the sudden, instead of this calm facilitator, there's a bowling ball crashing into the paint at 100 MPH. I'm not sure that style is actually sustainable nor beneficial for 30 mpg. I think if Bobby were getting big time starter minutes, it would just lead to defenses figuring him out better, and putting him in more situations where he may not be comfortable. As it is right now he seems to know his role and be successful within that role. I do think it's possible by the end of the year he could be finishing some games if his level of play continues to improve throughout the season.
@mayjay said in Ok cool Hook em:
@approxinfinity said in Ok cool Hook em:
Kansas was a 31-point underdog at Caesars Sportsbook, making the Jayhawks' victory the largest spread upset ever in a Big 12 conference game.
The ESPN recap has some nice stats, like KU previously was 0-100 as an underdog againat a 24+ spread. Most ever points for KU in a victory, and most ever points for Texas in a loss. First Big 12 road victory for KU since 2008. Only the 4th KU win over Texas all time (1st was 1907, I think), but 2 in the last 5 years.
Pretty sure we scored 60+ on Nebraska.
@wissox Saying Coach K is the victim is like saying straight white cis-gendered men are the most persecuted subgroup. Are there challenges? Sure. Are they comparable to the power they wield to affect change? Not at all.
@BShark I think by the end of the year it will be a love fest between Martin and Self. I think they are both the same type of person so there's some tension there at the start. 4 years of the guy and we'd be looking at Frank Mason, Devonte Graham type of love. It will be interesting to see this type of relationship grow/implode over the course of 1 year with a SENIOR guard who is already a star. Like, the guy is preseason point guard of the year for the league WITHOUT Bill Self's help so yeah he's been doing something right. But also, he transferred to Kansas for a reason. He clearly thinks this is a better place for him to grow and learn for the last year of his eligibility. Such an interesting dynamic that I feel like we've never really seen before. We've had transfers, we've had stars, we've had 1 and dones, but never a senior transfer one and done PROVEN star player.
Also, just message me the stuff. I won't tell. I promise!
@Crimsonorblue22 I also wonder if that battle of wills is going both ways. I honestly think it's good natured and not really a negative but I do think it's interesting. Martin exploded in that first half of ESU and Self still wasn't really happy with his play. I think it's interesting that the next game he didn't even take a shot in the first half.
Definitely agree with @BShark that it's "something to monitor."
@Texas-Hawk-10 Heard Beard has been working hard sending individual messages to season ticket holders, etc. to get the fans in the building for games. They just had their biggest crowd for a season opener in like 20 years and it was against Houston Baptist so Beard and the talent he brought in is already a draw. We will see if that novelty wears off. But I think if they win they can sustain a solid crowd. Not sell out every night type crowd but good enough to actually make the place fun. Hoping the smaller arena contributes to that as well. Right now, even a sold out crowd for a top 5 match up with KU is fairly dull in my experience. They need some education on how to cheer for basketball games. Maybe Beard could host some classes.
@BShark For sure! Definitely hoping they are LEGIT quick and not just quicker than MSU and ESU... They look the part so far.
@Kcmatt7 Self definitely saw that in the first half and came out in the second with the plan to double certain players at certain places on the court. I can't remember for certain, but feel like we got at least one turnover out of that and after that, even the hint of a double scared the ball out of the post and back to our strength in perimeter ball pressure.
But yeah, "soft" is the word to describe the MSU attack. We got whatever we wanted on both sides of the floor all night. A decent shooting game and we win by 20.
Quick guards with good handles and fast hands are such a luxury and we have several.
My big take away is that KU seemed just flat better than MSU on a night when only Ochai played particularly well. The game looked easy for these hawks which is promising. Even Ochai's 29 didn't come off some super hot shooting night. He just took what the defense gave him and was aggressive on both ends of the floor. He will score 30 at least once this year. The question here is can he bring this level of play consistently?
This team is going to be at its best when they get easy baskets in transition off of long rebounds and steals. MSU also wanted to push the pace so that kind of played into KU's optimum game plan. I'll be interested to see what they do against a team that slows it down and really takes care of the ball. With that said, these guards have the ability to speed people up with their ball pressure. And one thing I loved from a coaching standpoint was Self going to the double team down low in the second half. That forced the ball to move and provided opportunities for our opportunistic guards to fly around and get their hands into passing lanes.
Dave is still Dave and we get the good and the bad that comes with that. One positive is he looks a little springier this year. The dunks have seemed easy and he's had a few nice blocks. There were times last year where many on this board wondered if he was capable of jumping and that does not seem to be the case this year. He will have some big nights for KU this year and their will be games that are either lost or close because of him as well.
Also, want to echo everything I've seen here about Bobby Pettiford. What a luxury to have that guy coming off the bench HUNGRY for minutes. Really the entire bench (aside from Mitch) know already that they have to make a positive impact when they come into the game or someone else's number will be called. This, along with the consistency of Och, will be the main story of the year. How does Bill Self manage the depth? How does he keep everyone hungry and fed at the same time?
Anyone else worry about how Jalen will fit in with this product we've now seen twice? It's a little scary for me because as some have already mentioned, this team already looks like a fairly well oiled machine. Am I making something out of nothing here? Probably...
Confession... I only watched the first half but here are my takes from what I saw.
The Martin/Self mental struggle will be the talk of the early season. Self is already negging him all over the place trying to get in his head. The dude comes out on FIRE coming off the bench after being put behind a TEAHAN. and at the half, Self said, "yeah he made some shots but I'd like the ball not to stick and to see some improvement on defense." Let the battle begin. He had 4 years with Tyshawn and only gets 1 with Martin.
I saw some definite improvement from Dave. He seemed to move easier vertically. His dunks weren't slipping over the top of the rim. Specifically the lob from Braun showed some good quick hops I don't feel like we've seen.
Harris is going to play. A lot. Some posters on here may not like it because he's not as flashy a scorer as some others on the team. But his ball pressure and quick hands gave us a lot of buckets early.
I really hope Ochai is on a mission this year. The early narrative is that he learned what he needed to work on from NBA camps and is back to show that he's grown. Was off to a good start in the half I saw with smooth shooting and some nice attacking moves toward the basket. His D will be underrated all year I think.
Adams appears to be working on the right things. This is the only place I'll significantly challenge @drgnslayr 's assessment because he was definitely connected with his teammates in the time I saw. A willing passer and one of those guys that is trying to get the ball where the coach wants it to go (DAVE). Whether that meant direct feeds of the posts, or quick ball movement to open up a passing lane for someone else, he was doing it and even gave a little fist pump after feeding the big man.
Didn't see anything that impressed me behind Dave unfortunately. We will see how that develops.
Overall, we have lots of quick little guards. If we can use that to our advantage on both ends of the court, could make for some fun viewing this year. Transition baskets, drive and dishes, free flowing 3s seem to be on the menu.
This is such a tough topic because punishment isn’t actually going to teach jalen a lesson or prevent someone else from doing it again. It’s to show that everyone is taking it seriously.
If punishment were the most effective way to prevent future wrong doing, recidivism numbers wouldn’t be what they are.
Consequences are good for the offender and the community. Punishment just makes the community feel like they got some retribution but doesn’t actually have the impact most think.
Finding the balance between real consequences and punishment is a tight rope to walk. I’m not sure honestly whether the suspension is a consequence or a punishment. Might come down to how it’s presented by the coaches and received by the player.
https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article255177727.html ↗
I feel like this could be the key issue all season. This is a good explanation of the selfs way va freedom to play dilemma.
@Marco said in Silence of the flock:
@benshawks08 My bad, I was talking about Cam. I've amended my post.
I’d forgotten we had 2 Martins…