I agree
Yes. I don't know all the details of how this will work but I haven't been keeping up like many in here.
drgnslayr
11251 posts
I think we basically agree on things.
I think the NCAA will have to show a real effort where Kansas officials and Adidas conspired to bring players to Kansas. I haven't heard of anything coming close to making such a violation charge valid.
I do believe Self will scorch the NCAA. But I doubt Self will scorch Duke... and believe me, he could scorch Duke over Zion. He could make that investigation and allegation stick. He could do the same by going after other schools. That isn't Self's style, to hurt others, especially negatively impacting athletes. That's how I defined "scorched earth."
Shoecos have completely infected and run through all of college sports. They provide funding at the universities, in the high schools, in AAU, they organize/fund events, they promote college sports in all areas... essentially, they are college sports as much as the universities have their role. All ADs are open for shoecos. I'm sure that access is probably covered in their contracts.
Without true evidence of Kansas and Adidas conspiring together in recruiting... this case is over. That has to be substantial and far more than a "we cool" comment. And it was a bigger blunder for the NCAA to force KU's hand into admitting the booster malarky to clear Silvio. That showed how desperate the NCAA was. And who is to say what other threats were issued when that went down. Does anyone in here really think KU made that move just to clear Silvio... especially if that would risk charges later that Adidas would be understood as a booster? You think KU just waltzed into that deal without legal counsel? ha... laughable.
And we are not "scorching earth." Scorched earth would mean we would expose all sorts of possible violations from other schools at this same level. We have no intention of going after pretty much the entire field of D1 schools. Self has privy to info on at least half the D1 institutions out there. That's how recruiting works. It doesn't favor Kansas to scorch the earth and attack half of D1... and we don't need to.
This is a game of chess... and so far... it looks like Kansas has been thinking many moves ahead. Definitely more than the NCAA. Their moves seem spontaneous, emotional, and defensive. I still can't believe their desperation in making KU state Adidas as a booster in order to liberate Silvio. That further builds upon our victim status.
We have been victimized by this entire system. In order to compete at this high level, and for everyone to keep their employment, we are forced to work in this entire environment and that environment includes possible unscrupulous individuals who work for shoecos. And then we are under attack from the NCAA for participating in an environment they are in charge of policing and setting standards. We are just here to play basketball and be competitive. We are accused of violations based on laws that don't exist (shoecos are boosters). And then when it isn't going well for the governing body, they force us to claim shoecos are boosters in order to free a young player so he can pursue his interests after he was punished far too heavy.. essentially turning him into a bargaining chip.
Self realizes our status as victim, and he's going to fight back! Bravo!
It is my opinion that the NCAA has lost so much power because of their broad legal exposure... that they are attempting to separate their pursuit on prosecuting infractions to a "third party" which is nothing more than a bunch of legal eagles.
They are hoping for two advantages with this:
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Reduce their legal exposure (also meaning financial exposure).
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Regain aggressive tactics for discovery and prosecution.
This is basically guaranteed to end up one day in front of the Supreme Court. The idea that an entity can contract out "hit squads" in this fashion and then not think they will be held accountable is just one more example of how our way of life is being threatened by large-scale organizations.
Large corporations have been using these tactics for decades. Hiring unscrupulous collections agency is an example that pops up in my head. The real key here is if the hiring entity can be pursued for damages.
The NCAA took a page out of the big corp playbook.
I wonder if Duke is paying for that appeal coming?
Our justice system is built on the basis of due process. Once again, I think the NCAA is digging themselves a deeper hole by thinking somehow the IARP will invoke tactics possibly beyond those used by the Justice Department.
Kansas must stay true to their guns and stay safely in the role of victim.
The fact that Kansas doesn't dispute an action from Adidas is exactly how they should respond. Kansas is not Adidas, and disputing any action from Adidas would imply Kansas and Adidas are one. It's not KU's job to challenge any potential action of a 3rd party.
Bet those Wildcats are anxious for the social distancing to stop so they can get back to life as usual:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/us/university-kentucky-cheerleading/index.html ↗
Even when MU sucks it is still good for us to have another big emotion game on our schedule.
They're back on the schedule this season.
As if we don't have enough on our plate...
I think Self and crew are legit. That didn't change with the "are we cool?" statement and other stuff. D1 is corrupt. Self and crew are trying to compete. What are they supposed to do? There exists a host of miscellaneous questionable leeches hanging around all top recruits. It's all part of the game.
We haven't been caught with our hand in the cookie jar and we pulled players off the court when there was a problem. Everything else is about optics.
I realize the feds calling us victims most likely helped them do what they wanted to do... go after Adidas. But if they had discovered hard evidence pinning us to the crime then we would fall, too, because that would enhance the conviction.
The NCAA is in deep if they take the "Adidas is a booster" path. Where does that stop? Pretty much makes all businesses associated with the game a booster.
I consider their pushing us to say Adidas is a booster in order to bring back Silvio EXTORTION! They pushed us into stating something we don't believe in (we can back that up) in order to release the strong arm on Silvio.
We should file that with the DOJ and push for a criminal prosecution.
Very possible. I believe there is a concept that if there is a partially (or fully) intoxicated individual, automobile and keys in the same location, the possibility of disaster is probable and hence warranting conviction. Would be nice to hear from someone who knows what happens when these cases are brought into a courtroom.
I believe an automobile with no keys present is seen as dead weight. Once the keys are present the potential risk is there.
Here's a twist. What if that individual doesn't even possess a driver's license and never did? How far will we convict based on projection (assumption)?
This is an area that has been dominated by social pressures from MADD.
Look at how gun laws, the 2nd Amendment, and gun owners have created such a hot topic. People who push for more gun control are met with stiff defense. Is that strictly paranoid behavior by gun owners who think "give them an inch and they'll take a mile?"
BTW: I'm not stating my position on gun laws. No way!
My point is that making laws is only one element in creating control. Interpretation and execution is often impacted by social pressures. That's a big reason why we need a court system on levels leading up to the Supreme Court.
There is no court system on levels within the NCAA. It is a very one-sided structure of justice. Power is held by one body... the prosecutor and judge, with no higher court overseeing direction and power.
"A school or an individual who has been found by a Committee on Infractions panel to have violated the NCAA constitution or bylaws may appeal to the Infractions Appeals Committee. An appeal is not a new hearing that provides a second chance to argue the case."
So a banana court should govern a nation? The rulings from this institution impacts every citizen of our country, either directly of indirectly. Not just D1 fans.
Kind of surprised no thread on Zach yet. He should be a welcome addition to our future!
Suddenly the 4-star guys may clearly be the way to go now. Imagine investing in a bunch of OADs now? Quite possible no season this fall (or whenever) and how do you know if your OAD just walks off campus and signs up for pro ball? I don't know.. maybe more OADs stick it out longer if they can make some cake with endorsements. What a confusing time for young players!
Size and range and will be around for several years, maybe 4 or 5! I agree with the concept of going "positionless" mimicking the NBA game. Find big guys with range, speed, hops and handles!
Welcome, Zach!
I wonder what institution has the stomach to face federal court after the virus wipes out their bottom line? Don't forget to ask this question of the NCAA, too. Their March Madness payday expired!
Typical court scenario appearing: who has the deepest pockets wins!
I know I'm not an unbiased source here. I openly admit that. If this forum was for official purposes my response would be buffered and I would attempt to be less opinionated. This is a place to "let it fly!"
What I want is fairness. And that simple comment opens a monster can of worms. I want fairness to schools, fans, coaches and most, the student-athletes. You are right, that we are a part of this and the development there of. I attack the NCAA often in areas I feel are unfair. It's hard not to do after reading info about Zion and others and what appears to be an unfair approach to evaluating fairness on a broad scale.
It is important to see "how we got here." And use that as part of the reasoning for where we go next. This is a transformation away from something that started simple but grew into complexity and required constant patching. It's like a bad piece of software where the approach was to patch and patch and patch. At some point, it's time to start from scratch and build something new. We are at that point.
The NCAA "using" situations to posture their position is an idea widely believed. And to those fans from schools selected, it always feels unfair. It builds an environment of distrust, anger and a desire to rebel. That's not a system working well.
Maybe it's about the punishment. Is it fair to hurt so many people that are totally not involved in the "crime?" Punishing a university (in it's entirety) with bans from post-conference participation, reducing scholarships, public condemnation and humiliation, etc., hurts a lot more innocent people than those committing the crime. When a school is leveled with the dark cloud of conviction, that impacts pretty much all areas of the university, including a huge impact to academics. Think about the impact on endowments (for example). Connecting the dots between NCAA sanctions and the development of a new research wing to the university is just one of the many areas that need to be considered and screams for this to reach a federal courtroom, because our society is heavily impacted by the decisions made by this private organization.
Imagine someone commits murder in your city/town. The person is caught. Should the entire community be punished for that? In some ways, the harm has already been leveled in many areas... but should there be a bigger penalty applied to community as a whole? No. Punishment should be directed to those who commit the crime. And in some cases, there can be fault in the system, too, and that should be exposed and addressed, too.
Punishment should be directed specifically to those who are convicted. And because of that specificity of punishment the level of proof must meet a reasonable standard. Perhaps the NCAA needs to be in contract directly with coaches, ADs, etc., to create the ability to regulate with pinpoint accuracy by laying down the law. This is where the college system may be better served by federal control, because those contracts are not necessary.
I think the NCAA has gotten away with murder for decades. They prosecuted schools based on rumor or circumstantial evidence. They rarely had the ability to really nail schools because they didn't have the power to subpoena or indict. So they often hammered schools with impunity. Back in the day, they were never threatened with retaliation in a federal courtroom. Much has changed because of the establishment of widespread harm throughout the country. It has become easier to pierce that private institution veil.
HEM - "when has a school beaten the NCAA in court over it’s penalties?"
Good question. Has any school taken their grievance on sanctions to a federal courtroom? Look over the last few years and you will find other areas that have new precedence challenging the authority of the NCAA. Why isn't the timing now GOOD for a challenge?
I realize the DOJ does not govern the NCAA directly. It is the overall police over private institutions of this size.
However... because the NCAA has such a large impact on America, the DOJ is involved with more investigative situations. If the NCAA was dismantled, it would fall into the hands of our federal government and the DOJ would be more directly involved.
Right, the NCAA never agreed we are a victim. The DOJ investigation came to that conclusion and my comment is that will be heavily weighed in a federal courtroom. I think it will be THE overwhelming piece of evidence helping Kansas in their federal case.
Most federal court cases do not have the luxury of a DOJ investigation. As you mentioned, the DOJ was involved in a criminal case while the potential case I'm discussing is a civil case. The conclusion found by the DOJ is that Kansas was a victim. Typically, that opens the door for Kansas to seek damage reparations in a civil courtroom.
Where the NCAA erred is after the DOJ concluded their case, they came in and persecuted Kansas based on a mythical story. Unless they were able to produce evidence beyond the bite of a federal indictment it appears they have made a grave mistake by mugging a victim (Kansas).
Kansas just needs to remain quiet and let the NCAA continue to dig their own grave. Perhaps the burden of proof within the NCAA system always falls on the school, coach, athlete... but in a federal courtroom, the burden of proof will fall on the NCAA to substantiate their charges.
The DOJ investigated this area and found KU as a victim.
Then the NCAA makes detrimental charges against Kansas, directly conflicting with the findings of the Justice Department.
Now the NCAA considers punishing Kansas. And even if they back off now, they have already damaged KU's reputation and impacted our program. In other words.... harm has already been done!
After we see what the NCAA does next, we drag the NCAA into a federal courtroom regardless. Which side of the story will the judge go with? The DOJ findings? Or the NCAA's largely unsubstantiated claims?
We are now just waiting to eat their lunch!
It feels like the prosecution style in the US court system 50 years ago... when you could be convicted with the guy sitting next to you who had pot on him because you were sitting in the same car. The NCAA believes the other passengers knew about the pot and probably benefited by sharing in the smoking.
Those cases "went up in smoke" later as the rights of each individual were broken.
I think Kansas will do well in federal court. The NCAA shoots themselves in the foot as much as they do anything else. Stating shoecos are boosters is just a novel idea. It is something that has never been formally established. Schools can not be held accountable because of an idea that was never established. Moving forward is a different thing. If the world would like to establish shoecos as boosters then situations like this can be addressed under different guidelines.
Giving Adidas personnel free access to practices? Free tickets to games? That's called "working access." Adidas is supplying shoes and needs to see how those shoes are being applied in use. And the fact that they hold multi-million dollar contracts with schools is merely business in a capitalist society. It takes hundreds of contracts to make college sports work. Who handles security at games... contracted... where do those hot dogs come from at concessions... contracted. Are all of these companies "boosters?"
Kansas needs to sue the NCAA. And they will. For unfair persecution. Their ability to hide behind a private organization's rules are over. Their power has already been pierced through the federal courts. Kansas should go after them to the point of ending this organization and having control come through federal policies and enforcement through the DOJ.
Time to end this clown governing body. It's always been a joke!
The way to really get life back, besides a working vaccine, is to have affordable, accurate, immediate testing for the active virus. This would let crowds come together again and people would feel safe that the people they are scrunched up with in a stadium are virus-free. Test at the gate. Give everyone a squirt of hand sanitizer so their hands are clean, too.
Test at the mall, test everywhere. This will also give us immediate containment. I can't believe the world doesn't come together and make this priority #1!
Well said! All we can do is wait to see him play again. We don't know what his game is like now, but what we do know is he's a glue guy and is totally on board for Self ball. What if he comes back and is shooting 38% from trey and very effective at mid range? We know he can guard the trey line. Self is bound to reward him for red shirting. I expect him to compete for as many non-guard minutes as anyone!
Danny had a timeless skill set for a big man. Not really the "shake and bake" post play of an Olajuwon, but definitely back to the basket moves, and then a plethora of scoring space moves on the floor. Lock down positioning to receive the ball without fouling. Drive off the dribble. Quick shots in the post and mid range. Shot fakes. Full court finishes... crossovers. Manning had it all! His game is still modern and as valuable as any big guy in the league. He is easily the guy I want coaching my bigs.
I don't think he was ever cut out to be a head coach. He has the potential to be the best big man coach anywhere, and he should stay where his best skill set is.
He could open up a big guy school in Lawrence, helping KU and other big men outside of Lawrence.
I can already visualize the rug being rolled down Naismith Drive for Danny. The all-time scorer/rebounder will always have a home in Lawrence.
Who says he has to sit on the bench? Why not come back and be the John Lucas of Kansas basketball?
@FarmerJayhawk said in Mitch:
If we play Mitch 25 MPG at the 4 we’re so, so screwed. He’s a good shot blocker and effort guy but I really don’t know what else he gives us.
I think Mitch gives us a lot. He's a guy who will stop opposition scoring and will win us possessions. He will give us consistency. 50/50 balls. He helps our guys with team confidence. And he's a glue guy. He will also find ways to get his points. I'm sure he has focused on scoring in his year off. Teamed with Marcus and we will be one of the better defensive teams in the nation.
I see Mitch getting a great deal of minutes, perhaps even starting some. He knows the playbook... his defense was already big league before he sat a year... and we know Self likes to reward defense. The idea is that defense will show up every night and eventually, the good defenders will find their way to get their offense... for example, Marcus.
What we need first out of Mitch is consistency and defense. The rest is extra. He needs to be a player that wins us possessions. That means... few TOs while being solid on rebounds, blocked shots and steals.
I don't think Mitch gave away his senior year on a #1 team for nothing. He is expecting big things from his senior year, will get the minutes, and worked his butt off in his extra year to add to his game. Hopefully, he can hit the trey and he's become even a better defender!
@dylans said in 2020-21 Season: Will it happen?:
Another theory (put forth by a doctor that specializes in this) is we are doing everything wrong. Kids should be in school getting exposed and building antibodies to the virus. Then they would be the first line of defense against the viruses future spread. Get enough healthy people exposed and immune to protect those that are susceptible from future exposure.
I think it would take some very special calculations by the very brightest working in the area of infectious disease to come up with a plan.
Off the top of my head... we first must just survive this first wave. We are clearly completely unprepared for handling this pandemic and the virus itself has caught us off guard to the point of where we don't know enough about it yet and how best to treat it. Right now, we don't have enough supplies, staff, beds, ventilators, etc... and we don't have adequate planning how to keep those infected away from those at high risk.
Let's say the virus slows because of our social distancing and warmer weather (summer) and added humidity. The fall will arrive with a new threat of a second wave (very realistic expectation). If we have become capable to handle it we may try the following:
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Put great energy into protecting those at risk.
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Develop a lottery system with 4 inoculation periods.
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Run the inoculations with a 45 day gap and stay flexible to adjust the gap.
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Don't make it mandatory but give cash incentives to those who participate and include sick leave pay and other expenses. Give free training and free helpful supplements, like NAC. I've already heard of NAC being used to help immensely.
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Manage the spread. Constant testing will be needed and social distancing will still be in use. Those who are inoculated and contagious will remain in quarantine during their illness.
Using a model like this will create a planned infection rate to bring up herd immunity within 6 months. So within a year from now we go back to more of a lifestyle we had before the virus.
Sounds bleak. But imagine this thing carrying on for years and our reaction being to keep closing down many things. Can our economy handle it? What about PTSD? We haven't even discussed what this stress has already done to people. It goes without saying that between economic factors and stress there will be many deaths and extended illnesses coming not directly from the virus.
https://www.eatwellpros.com/supplements-and-coronavirus-covid-19/ ↗
I think the virus will reduce as we continue to lock down tighter and the weather warms.
But eliminate it? Not going to happen soon because we have no herd immunity and it is heavily contagious. And the virus is embedded all through humanity everywhere. That makes me think it will be back in the fall for another significant run.
I think the death count will grow quite a bit now and will impact people to take it serious enough to accept continued reduction of crowd sizes.
What are your thoughts on the coming season. Will it happen?
I have my doubts.
I think the only way it can happen is if we either come up with an effective vaccine or an effective treatment to reduce to death count.
Please... if someone has some positive light... shine it here!
Very entertaining! Great job!
I can think of so many reasons why Maravich deserves that top spot. But if I had to choose a best team, I'm not certain I could turn down Jordan, even before he became the great Jordan he was in the NBA. And he applied his skills to actually win a National Championship against Georgetown, where he made the winning shot in the finals.
I remember Maravich well. His scoring was unreal, but I was most impressed with his insane passing abilities, including his no-look passes.
Wow.... Pete Maravich over Michael Jordan!
I know I come on here and preach constantly.
I've always been critical of our rebounding and would mention Charles Barkley's size and how he dominated the boards.
Now I have a new example moving forward! I'm positive I will be preaching to players about defending and using Marcus as the example. Hope our coaching staff does the same!
As we all know... "sexy" is in the eye of the beholder!
Congrats, Marcus!
Okay. Both you guys win!
Okay... we have HEMs great work showing us our possible path to a finish this year.
Seems we have exhausted about everything now... or have we?
What is the very worst case scenario of what could have happened this March?
Be creative.
I'll give it a go -
Our first March Madness game is with Wichita State. They somehow made the tourney.
The walk off virus that hit that team happened just before our game, so WSU came to the big dance with only 5 players, 2 were without a scholarship.
We were at full strength, everyone healthy and well.
But we decided to not show up on the court and WSU pounds us by 30!
It is not only proclaimed as the biggest upset in D1 history... it is mentioned that there will never ever be a bigger upset in the future!
Our future is toast as we become the laughing stock of college basketball and mentioned negatively in every conversation about D1 from here on out!
Anyone have one better than this?
I agree. And I'll never understand these rankings. To me, we are often overrated in these early polls. This time I think underrated.
It's all just spin.
Here is some fuel for the guys to work their butts off in the off-season.
Nonsense. KU 13?
We will completely miss Doke's sudden dominance in the paint.
More... I think we will miss his spirit. No one can say that guy doesn't care about Jayhawk basketball! He has always worn his emotions on his sleeve and how much he cares about his team!
Great job! I can see this happening. Hope you plan on adding coverage for the next 5 games.
Yes.... this team proved several times they could beat teams who shot hot from treysville.
So easy to imagine them thrashing the field to the trophy... improving with every game... a truly great road team!
I think the NCAA has plenty of other problems to worry about right now besides crowning a champion. They live off the earnings from March Madness... and some of that money works it's way back to universities.... who are also in deep trouble!
I wish the only bad news was we didn't get our chance to prove ourselves in March, but we all have a lot more to worry about right now.
We don't exactly have a great March record (historically).... but I believe our guys would have stepped up and I'm doubtful Howard had much of a chance of winning. It would be a long shot (at best).
Howard didn't build his numbers against teams with KU's defense.
I have crimson/blue shades on and I don't see a loss here. Yes... an upset could happen. That's why it is called an upset, because it isn't likely to happen.
What a load of garbage. Markus Howard going off against the #1 defense in America? Howard's big night would be throttled by Garrett. Anything in the paint, smoked by Doke.
Everyone that isn't a Kansas fan wants to come out and tarnish the idea that Kansas is #1 and would win it all in the tourney.
Might as well say that this was the year Wichita State was going to win it all after thrashing Kansas (if they made the tourney).
"Our players aren't afraid of anyone. They have put out an offer to meet any team in any location to administer their beat down. We're #1!"
(nonsense)
The chatter between fans from all over will continue. It all gets silly because we are just left with words and no resolution on courts.
Maybe Marshall is just practicing social distancing. ;)
Let's just permanently stop college basketball. Next year will still be this virus or another one.
Let's end it all with us being on top!
;)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2020/03/14/florida-state-mens-basketball-team-declared-national-champions/5051773002/ ↗
Let the national argument begin.
We can't take this sitting down!