🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@HighEliteMajor I will keep our perimeter players as well. I honestly hope we don't sign anyone that is a guard or small forward. The guys we have are up to the task. All of them are either high recruits or have played well above their high school ranking (Mason and Graham).

I would like an OAD post player though if possible. This team is one really good post player away from being something special. If we have to rely almost 100% on Perry again to score in the post it will be a long year and a short March.

@drgnslayr I am not sure that we go to the Title game in 2012 if EJ transferred.

@dylans Good point about 08. At least the starting lineup did not have a true 5. Sasha off the bench was a pretty nice thing to have. As was Sherron off the bench. As was have multiple top 15 recruits who just happened to stay 2-3 years.

We do need more height, though. When you look at the Elite 8 this year height does seem to be a huge factor. All of these teams had tons of height. MSU and Gonzaga may have the least talent in the post of the 8 teams but they are certainly really tall. My guess is that Arizona, Gonzaga, UK (obviously the tallest) and Wisconsin are the tallest teams in the country.

@Crimsonorblue22 Now that would really be something if he came back. I would love it for our post play as Cliff has tons of potential. I just can't imagine that he will be able to get cleared to play another game in college at this point.

For the sake of KU's recruiting I hope that the Alexander saga with the NCAA is over with sooner than later.

@KUSTEVE Totally agree. I can't imagine Selden or Perry leave. Neither guy has any chance of being a lottery pick or even a first round pick. Even if you think you have met your ceiling why would you leave when you could worst case scenario go undrafted?

These guys are back: Ellis, Selden, Mason, Devonte, Greene, Svi, Bam Bam, Lucas, Hunter. Looks pretty sweet on the perimter to me. The gaping hole is obviously in the post. UK can't take all of the McD's kids that are undeclared. Hopefully we get one of these guys and they end up not being an OAD.

@drgnslayr I'm all in on a Final 4. Don't care about "the streak".

Why can't we do both? Wisconsin and UK did this year!

@BeddieKU23 Agreed. I think Svi plays into the "shooting forward" spot. He could play the 2 or the 3. Due to his age I think he could improve more than anyone in the offseason. He has the height and the touch. Just needs to bulk up a bit and get some confidence. Svi is a stud.

@nuleafjhawk I know. I'm just busting your balls.

@nuleafjhawk Boo!!

@JhawkAlum Speaking of Cliff, is there really no news on him? My assumption is that it is just a matter of days until he declares for the NBA now that Turner and other kids have announced.

@JhawkAlum Excellent points.

@drgnslayr I really hope not. I'll take Frank Mason and Devonte for the next two years over any OAD. No question. Look at MSU this year. Look at Wisconsin. These are kids who have played for good coaches and learned a ton and are poised and ready in the post season.

I see Frank as one of the best PG's in basketball his senior year with Devonte as an incredible compliment. To screw that up would be a huge loss in my opinion no matter who we sign.

I can't imagine Selden would leave. The highest I have seen him on an NBA draft list is 43rd. He needs another year to try and improve upon that draft status, right?

@jaybate-1.0 If Frank Mason does not start at PG at KU next year I will eat the shirt I am currently wearing.

@drgnslayr I did not understand Bill's comment on this. Obviously Svi already said he is back. None of the other players he mentioned are NBA ready and none have been rumored to be unhappy at KU. I just don't get it.

We should have everyone back except Oubre and Cliff. Our two OAD's. Perhaps this is the year where we don't have to deal with any OAD BS. Bragg is not an OAD. Maybe we will be really fortunate and have "system" players!

@DCHawker

Good post.

I agree about the lack of talent / stud players in the Big 12 but I don't really care that much. I honestly just care about KU and what they do during the regular season and the tournament. I tend to cheer for Big 12 teams during the NCAA but I think it is just because I know the players. I don't think that the lack of talent in a league helps or hurts that much in the post season. The Big 10 this year was pretty lousy and they have 2 teams in the Final 4.

If OU or ISU or Baylor lose in the NCAA I don't really lose any sleep. I just want KU to go to the Final 4. That is my only concern. Do many people on this site really take other Big 12 teams and how they perform in the NCAA that seriously?

As you point out two of the teams in the FF are OAD teams and two are "system" teams who have developed players over 3-4 years. This gives me hope that our team next year will be something special. A "veteran" team. MSU does not have one highly recruited player on this team. They don't have one "rim protector". They don't have an NBA All Star. They simply have guys who play hard, rebound, play great defense and with Izzo's help appear to play without nerves.

I have never wanted 2 teams to lose more than I want UK and Duke to lose. A MSU vs. Wisconsin final would be all you can ask for at this point.

@BeddieKU23 Agree to disagree. As usual my glass is half full and I see Greene, Selden and Svi all improving. Why can't they "double their production" like the ND guys did? Maybe my belief in Coach Self being able to not only recruit great players but to turn them into better players is clouding my vision.

@BeddieKU23 I understand your points but show some optimism!!

Notre Dame last year went 15-17. They have essentially the same team this year and they are 1 game away from the Final 4 and just beat the sh*t out of a team that murdered KU. A lot can happen in a year.

Rock Chalk.

@brooksmd I agree. BG probably won't start unless he adds to his game.

I still feel that we are a "veteran" team next year and that if we lose in the tourney Self will not be able to say "KU is young and WSU is old and that is that". Mason, Selden and Ellis will start so no matter who the other 2 players are there will be 2 juniors and a senior in the starting lineup.

Jamari is a senior and will play big minutes. BG is a junior and will get big minutes. Lucas is a red shirt junior and will likely see a lot of time. Mickelson will be a senior.

Graham, Bragg and Svi are the only guys right now who will see minutes that are underclassmen. We will more than likely add another good freshman that will see minutes but this will be a veteran squad.

@drgnslayr Our starting 5 could include Mason (Junior) Selden (Junior) BG (Junior) Perry (Senior) and someone else. I don't think Bill will have the youth excuse this year.

@BeddieKU23 You have not ruffled my feathers. I feel the same. I have been a Jamari supporter for years. Love the guy but he really has not turned into the player I thought he could be. He is really a solid guy off the bench for 10-15 minutes but that is about it. I am afraid his ceiling just isn't that high.

Lucas looked really really bad at the beginning of the year. He slowly but surely improved and he certainly plays hard and has a high basketball IQ. But I am not sure that he will ever be able to change the game on either end of the floor.

Mickelson is pretty good when he is in. Obviously there must be some reason we just don't see him on the floor as much as you would think. That said, his ceiling does not seem that high either. Good utility guy but not the starting center on a top 10 program.

Izzo went all in trying to get Jabari Parker. I don't think Izzo simply does not want OAD kids. I am sure he would take them when they make sense for what he does.

Great post.

@truehawk93 I don't think the guy who didn't put up 0 points in his last game will be going to the NBA. That is not a derogatory statement about your comment or about Wayne Selden. Just my opinion that Wayne is far far far from NBA ready.

Great news. BG has the chance to be one of the premier 3 point shooters in the NCAA for his Junior and Senior seasons. I think BG is going to add a bit to his game which will make him harder to guard and he is going to see a big uptick in minutes and points next year.

We all know Self will have him working on his defense all summer.

@DCHawker Very well said.

@DCHawker I don't think you can put the OAD performance on Self. Oubre had a very good year once he figured things out. Cliff obviously struggled but I am not sure how that is on his coach. Cliff seemed to be highly over rated. So were the two top 10 kids for UNC this year. Myles Turner was the #2 player in the entire country and it is not like he had an incredible season. It happens.

Bill can coach the OAD's. Wiggins, Embiid, BMac. These guys all had very successful 1 year stops at KU and I truly expect more success from OAD kids in the future.

@justanotherfan All great points. I would have to say that Bill has adapted in some similar ways over the years but perhaps not as much. Probably easy for us to all point out his shortcomings as a coach after a season ending loss.

Part of the reason I think of Izzo is that him and Bill have similar models. Hard nose play. They often recruit raw guys. Izzo is my 2nd favorite coach by far and you obviously like the way he coaches and recruits as well.

Rock Chalk.

@justanotherfan I am not disagreeing. Just a question. Do you think Michigan State has started to play differently? To me it seems every single Izzo team is the same. Same offense where he sends all 4 guys to the glass to rebound. Same defense where he recruits bruisers to man handle the opposing team.

Again, just a thought. To my eye MSU looks the same as they always have and it is working for them in the NCAA.

@wissoxfan83 Sorry about that. I wasn't trying to talk trash on another school (even though this is a KU board). I was more pointing out the fact that they have had numerous Final 4 caliber teams that have not made it that far. Similar to KU, Cuse, UNC, Nova, etc. No harm intended. I am pulling for them to win it all now that KU is out.

After a couple of days I think we are over the sting of the loss and we have refocused and are looking for answers.

Was it Bill Self and his hi / low / I won't shoot 3's offense?

Was it Perry and his knee? Was it Selden and his inability to put up 1 point in an elimination game?

I think the answer is you just never know what is going to happen in the NCAA tournament and even the tip top programs have trouble achieving their goals and often. It is just reality. Just think of the other "elite" programs and what they have done over the last few years. I say this as the last few years (post 2012 title game run) is what most of the fans on this site are so up in arms about.

Duke. They look pretty great this year. Which is good for their fans as they lost in the 1st round 2 of the last 3 years and have not been to a Final 4 since 2010.

UNC. They have honestly overachieved even getting where they are this year and they are more than likely done as Wisconsin will probably thrash them. Since they won it all in 2009 they have lost twice in the 2nd round and have lost twice to KU. No returns to the Final 4.

Syracuse. Do I even have to elaborate on the trouble that Cuse is in? They are on rough streak and the NCAA just made it more difficult.

UCONN. Won it all last year which is great. Did not even make the tourney this year.

Florida. Great streak of going to the Elite 8 broken last year when they went to the Final 4. They were the best team in the country. Couldn't beat one man team UCONN and this year they don't get close to making the tournament.

MSU. Have not been to the Final 4 since 2010. Since then they have been to a number of Elite 8's. Lost in the first round in 2011. As a 7 seed they were lucky to get hot late in the season. We will see what they can do the remainder of this year.

Louisville. They have had great results in the last few years. National Title. Final Four. It helps as they had numerous first round exits in a row. Pretty average year this year. Pretty favorable draw in the tourney. We shall see.

Wisconsin. Went to the Final 4 last year for the first time in over a decade. They live to underachieve in the tournament.

Kentucky. They are certainly the exception. Sure they went to the NIT a couple of years ago but the OAD circus in Lexington seems to work for them over in Lexington. Sad as it is.

My point is (which I am sure many will disagree with) that KU puts itself in position every year to do something in the NCAA. It may not work out how we all want it to but I think the 2008 run and the 2012 run will happen again. And soon. If we just keep getting 1 and 2 seeds it puts us in a better spot to achieve our goals. It is just a reality as a top tier program that we are going to come up short of our goals MOST years. See the list above. The harshest reality is that somehow UK is the exception to this rule.

@drgnslayr I agree that Bragg will probably have to contribute. If we don't land a big time post player he is going to have to step right in and play big minutes. I just don't think that the trio of Landen / Jamari / Hunter is going to cut it. Even with a summer or working on their game. I hope I am wrong.

My assumption is that Cliff is gone due to the NCAA situation. Oubre is gone as he can't say no to being a lottery pick. That leaves quite a few scholarships open. It will be very interesting to see what happens.

@cragarhawk Agreed. I hate losing like everyone but I really hate when the post loss comments include "we didn't come to play tonight". How are our guys not up for every single game, especially an NCAA tournament game? The 2011 loss to VCU certainly seemed to be due to a team who was looking past a far inferior squad. The 2013 team lost after a total meltdown so I am not sure that they didn't come to play. That team seemed to always show up. 2014 certainly looked unexcited to play Stanford and this year the WSU loss seems to come partially down to effort.

In the post game I heard Ron Baker say "this is my biggest win ever at WSU". Van Vleet said "I am so excited I don't even know how to feel". Hard to believe any of our guys would have that sentiment had we won the game.

Is this lack of effort in huge games coach Self? Is it the players? To me it seems like a mix. When you look back at the 07 team, the 08 team, the Sherron teams, the 2012 team...they seemed to bring it. It has really been the last couple of years that I can really see the "we just didn't have it tonight" excuses. Probably 50/50 blame. Self and the players.

All really great posts above.

@HighEliteMajor I love your posts. The best on here. And you always refer to our talent and I understand that. But are these guys really as talented as you think? Yes, they came in with high expectations due to what they did in high school but are they really that much more talented than WSU? It didn't seem that way to me yesterday. Oubre and Greene may be a top 10 and top 40 players but they certainly didn't look more talented than Ron Baker who was unranked. Van Vleet did whatever he wanted. Is he less talented than anyone on KU? I think a lot of our fans including myself assume we are more talented because our guys come in highly ranked and play for KU. We are all probably just wearing crimson colored glasses. Just give it some thought. Lots of teams have talent and just don't have the flashy rankings to back it up.

Frank Mason is a stud and a super talent but was unranked. Perry is very talented but not a guy who can carry a team to victory by himself. Wayne is talented sure, but shows up to about 50% of our games.

Talent is only part of the equation. See Texas this year. See Duke last year. See UK when they went to the NIT.

Did KU underachieve this year? You bet. Am I upset that the season ended the way that it did after being 21-4 and winning another Big 12 title? Of course. But it happens. Nova and UVA were better than KU ALL season and they were sent packing as well. The NCAA tournament is a harsh and brutal way to end the year...every year unless you somehow win it all, which we have done 3 times ever.

I woke up this morning thinking about the game last night and realized that I this is the least upset I have been about the end of a KU season in decades. It is all about expectations, right? This year we rarely if ever blew anyone out. We rarely if ever hung onto a lead. Often we blew leads and either won by very little or lost the game after a huge meltdown. We had injuries. Guys were deemed ineligible. These are not excuses. They are just reality.

Then reality sunk in even more on Selection Sunday. We were given a draw where we were going to have to more than likely beat 3 teams in a row who had all been in the top 10 this year including undefeated UK. My expectations for a deep run were low. Was I positive? Yes, of course. But I was realistic.

When we lost to VCU in 2011 I literally cried. Not like a single tear either. A full on weeping like an 8 year old girl. In 2013 when we blew our 10 point lead to Michigan I smashed a beer glass and told a good friend to f"ck off. Those are low points for me. My expectations for those teams was National Title or bust. This year after we lost to a very good WSU team that simply played harder and wanted the game more I shed no tears. I spared any pint glasses. I didn't get in heated arguments with close friends. I simply had a cup of tea to settle down. Read a book and went to bed. It just wasn't going to be our year and I am ok with that.

We are KU and the journey is always part of the fun. We had some great wins this year and we are going to be fortunate enough as fans to see almost this entire team back next year. Oubre may leave. Cliff is probably gone. But our heart and soul will return and I think we should all be excited that next year is going to be another top 10 KU basketball team. That is more than almost any other program in the country can say.

Rock Chalk.

@jaybate-1.0 I had a dream last night that KU beat WSU with ease and that one of the announcers said "This is why Kansas doesn't need to schedule Wichita State". I was sad when I woke up as it was just a dream but I have a feeling it is prophetic. I feel a big win coming and a lot of crow to be eaten by all of the CBS/TNT/TruTV morons, excuse me "experts".

I think that WSU is going to play with more pressure than KU. Their fan base and their coach are both building this up to be the game of the century. That pressure will not help WSU in any way and from what I saw against Indiana yesterday they don't play great D and looked a bit tight.

I expect a 10-15 point KU victory. We are better or equal at every position. I know Van Vleet had a huge game and is a great player but Frank is a beast and I don't see Devonte letting him carve up KU like he did Indiana.

I love this matchup for us and our guys should relish the opportunity to beat another good team on their run to a rematch with the evil empire.

Rock Chalk!!!!!

@dylans Don't change it!

@JayHawkFanToo I know! Is this a sign of how biased we all are of the Big 12? Everyone was saying we have the best conference nationally I suppose. I'm scratching my head at these games.

I can't say I care. Good to have the Big 12 do well. Good to have Fred Hoiberg's kid cry. Win Win.

Oh my god if I read another post on this site about how we are probably going to barely beat New Mexico St...how we are going to lose to WSU...how the Sweet 16 is our absolute best case...I will blow my brains out.

Looks like I am going to be off the site until Friday afternoon.

This makes me think about what I will do if there is a Kentucky vs Duke final. I shouldn't even post some of my horrible thoughts if this comes to pass.

@JhawkAlum Like most of us I have never seen them play. Has anyone on this site? I go to bed earlier than when most of the west coast games are on and if I stayed up I would probably watch Arizona or Gonzaga or someone "good".

I did see that they are ranked 88 on kenpom. The other 15 seeds are ranked 149, 151 and 207 so we got the toughest draw according to that stat. Toughest 15. Toughest 7. Toughest 3. Toughest 1. Funny that we could get to play all of them in a row!!

RCJH.

@JayHawkFanToo I know what odds are and I understand how betting works. I just think it is strange that we have the same odds as WSU.

@JayHawkFanToo I'm watching ESPN as we speak and they just said that KU has 8-1 odds to make it out of the Midwest. WSU also has 8-1 odds. No idea how that works.

Also just saw that most of the "experts" on ESPN and CBS have us losing to WSU. Every single "expert" has UK winning.

I know that WSU is good but why are they better than KU all of the sudden?

I know that UK is really good and undefeated but unbeatable? We can't beat them? Give me a break. Of course we could. We should know that from experience. Kansas could not lose to Northern Iowa. Kansas could not lose to Bucknell. Kansas could not lose to VCU. And then we lost. The talent gap between KU and those losses I just mentioned is greater than the gap between UK and us. There is no such thing as a team that can't lose. Even if they are undefeated, see 1991 UNLV. That is why they play these games.

@KUSTEVE Obviously we are all a bit hot and bothered about playing WSU in the 2nd round (assuming we get by our first opponent) but it is what it is. Would you rather play MSU who is a 7? Would you rather play the winner of VCU / Ohio St? These are all really good teams. Ohio St. has a kid who will go top 5 in the draft. MSU just outplayed Wisconsin for 38 minutes. No matter who we were going to get in the 2nd round (or 3rd round or whatever it is now called) it was going to be against a team that can easily beat us. But also against a team that we SHOULD beat. I for one would not be surprised if KU beats the winner of the WSU / Indiana game by 15. Why not? We are KU and we have studs just like they do. Bill has a week to game plan for both squads. We are coming off of a loss and should have plenty of anger and fire for these games.

My glass of beer during the opening rounds will be half full. Rock Chalk!!!

@cragarhawk I agree. Who cares. If we get a 3 seed perhaps we will play with a chip on our shoulder.

I am not going to let yesterday ruin my favorite day of the year. Selection Sunday is a day that I have circled on my calendar literally a year in advance. Can't plan any trips. Can't make dinner plans. Can't even think about having the in-laws over. It is my favorite day and to me it is better than Christmas. It is the day where we see the final road that lies ahead in the long and grueling basketball season. There really is nothing more exciting than hearing all of the names called and seeing the draws.

"How are they a 3 seed?"

"That is a really scary 7 seed."

"No one is going to want to be a 1 seed with that team as an 8 seed."

It is awesome and I can't wait for 5 o'clock tonight.

Another reason I am not going to let yesterday get me down is it simply doesn't matter. We are about to play in a single elimination tournament. It is all about the next game and the prior games all disappear. KU has come into the NCAA on fire many times and it has not worked out for us in the NCAA. 2010, 2011 and 2013 all come to mind. Those are years where we won the Big 12 tournament, came in as 1 seeds and failed to reach the Final 4. Failed to reach the Elite 8 in 2 of those years.

My argument is that it should not matter that we lost yesterday or that we blew a big lead. How often do you see a team struggle down the stretch and then get hot in the tourney? Or even struggle in the tourney and then find a way to win and make a run? The answer is all of the time. UCONN last year needs OT in the very opening round! Butler gets to the Finals two years in a row! Are you kidding? It is just a crap shoot and it is what makes March so amazing and so awful all at once and I can't wait for it to start.

@ZIG It is a really interesting situation. It may be the first time ever that the team from the best conference wins the regular and post seasons (if we win of course) and does not get a 1 seed. But I agree with the above posts that we have too many losses. The KSU one looks pretty bad.

When we played Michigan in 2013 (I know I can't believe I am bringing this up either) I knew that we could beat them (and did for 38 minutes) but I knew we could not beat them in a pretty way. They simply had more talent. More NBA players. What Self did pre-implosion was he muddied the waters. Played great D. Did not let their studs get the shots they wanted. Did not let them get into the lane where they wanted to be. The UNC game from 2012 may be a better example since we won and it took us to the Final 4. Or the OSU game the following round. We simply did not have the offensive fire power that either of those teams had but we played ugly and won ugly and I see this 2015 team doing the same thing starting next Thursday.

The reason I bring this up is I do see us moving onto the 2nd weekend and playing a 3-6 seed in the Sweet 16 / Elite 8 who has fire power. Taller guys. Better shooters. And I see Bill Self doing his best to make it a truly ugly affair. Maybe we will see a little Box and 1 that we did to Steph Curry or a little Triangle and 2 that we broke out against UNC and Harrison Barnes. Really looking forward to seeing what ugly tricks Bill has up his sleeve.

Great win last night. Hope we get a similar shooting night from ISU tonight from deep. RCJH!!!!