jaybate 1.0 said:
HighEliteMajor said:
I think Vick aids the three point shooting issue. And it gives us another potential superstar. His addition is of greater impact than most are assuming.
We have one of the two best rosters in CBB. And I’d take ours.
——————
In the kingdom of the one-eyed, the two-eyed man is king.
Thanks for retaining your binocular vision!
Vick is a HUGE addition.
I think Vick could easily make the team worse.
To celebrate, I cleaned out my garage some with the day off.
jaybate 1.0 said:
I heard all this same talk, when Self went with Tyshawn.
Never happen.
Then he went with him.
Never work. Bad handles.
Then he handled.
Never work. Too soft and sensy.
Then he grew up.
Not a good enough shooter.
Then he shot 40% most of the season.
Won’t last.
Then he lead the team to the Finals.
Won’t make it in the pros.
Lasted a few years and done.
See, I told you so.
There are great players.
Some pass the eye test and create comfort.
Some are “different” and trigger discomfort.
Tyshawn Taylor wasn’t a conventional point guard that made fans comfortable. He took a lot of on the job training. But for that team he was the perfect point guard. They got to the finals and would have beaten any non stack team for the ring.
Self probably would rather have had a conventional PG that could. Make the team better than Tyshawn could. But he didn’t have one.
Looking at this season, whether Vick plays point depends on whether Self has someone more conventional that by season’s end will make the team better than taking a big gamble on Vick learning to lead would make the team.
Self doesn’t take the lower risk approach unless it leads somewhere better.
Vick at point makes this team the best it could be, if Vick can master himself.
Self has a tough call.
Everyone wants Vick “on a short leash” taking the treys and being what they already know—the domestique 2. They want Vick to be better at what they know.
Fans always want more of what they know.
They didn’t want the highschool 2 Frank from Towson at KU, much less the point.
They didn’t the highschool 2 Marquette decommit Tyshawn as starting point.
And so on
Fortunately, Self chooses what makes the team the best it can be and embraces the uncomfortable unknown when the risk/return tradeoff warrants it. He puts up with the fans addicted to the known.
Vick may never see a second at the point this season, but only if someone else at point makes the team have greater potential.
Self would not hesitate to give Vick the keys, if he thought the return was worth the risk of the unknown.
Tyshawn was always a PG. Next.
jaybate 1.0 said:
Vick is a stunning talent. Board rats have to forget this bad handles nonsense. Tyshawn, Frank all had bad handles.
WRONG. Next.
jaybate 1.0 said:
Thanks for the links. Now, do they indicate to you that Self will not convert players to point guards that were recruits defined by those sorts of links defined as shooting guards (I.e., Vick, Frank Mason and Tyshawn Taylor). They don’t lead me to that conclusion at all.
Frank Mason. Tyshawn Taylor.
See at @HighEliteMajor’s reference to Self’s comments on Vic, a player LB originally reputedly viewed as a PG prospect. LB and Self are HOF coaches. The links are to recruiting stories. Do you not see the difference?
Next, Self often plays players at other positions to round out their games and to get them on the floor with more experienced players at the position Self plans to play them at eventually.
Why does contemplating Vick at the point this year, at least swinging 1-2 the way Bill Self and Larry Brown have contemplated him stress you into inflexible thinking mode denying the realities of Bill and LB?
Vick likely would be a very effective point for certain kinds of schemes, especially for a team playing through a lot of big men, because of his stretching trey gun and because he is tall enough to make the entry pass “over the top” and the lob from wing, wing point, or point positions. Also, Vick would be ideal for long rebounding of all the treys our opponents will be taking in the trey ball era, especially against a team loaded with bigs. Finally, Vick with Moore as a credible Backup and part time tandem mate would be the best of all possible worlds. Moore could handle any short points too fast for Vick and with Vick and Moore in simultaneously it would KEEP OPPONENTS GUESSING WHICH WOULD INITIATE THE OFFENCE.
You seem to be being disputatious for no reason.
Come in. The water is fine.
Self said he isn't a PG.
Proof re Larry Brown or are you just making that up?
Doke was a PG before he got to KU. Self has been playing him out of position this whole time.
HighEliteMajor said:
I think Vick aids the three point shooting issue. And it gives us another potential superstar. His addition is of greater impact than most are assuming.
We have one of the two best rosters in CBB. And I’d take ours.
Excuses will be made assuming a poor performance in an early tournament exit though.
I agree with you, the roster is stacked. Less than a FF would be a failure next season.
I'm worried about Self working out the rotation. Should have a solid record but I bet 3-5 losses.
Jacobs was always a long term player. I hope he still ends up at ku.
Williamson should become a priority imo.
Woodrow said:
BShark said:
Interesting...
Soren Petro
Verified account @SorenPetroJESSE NEWELL: Some Kansas players were told a couple of months ago that Vick was gone. Now they’re stuck there. There could be a couple guys on the team that wish they could go elsewhere now.
I saw this as well. I think Cunliffe is one guy who might have transferred again and just lost a year of eligibility, but I’m not sure who else he would be talking about...
Possibly Garrett, but he doesn't seem like the type.
I'm going to listen to the entire Newell segment now and see if there are more nuggets.
If Vick plays PG this year I will be shocked and concede the point to JB. I see no reason, however, to believe he is "primed for a great 4th season at the point". Tyshawn and Devonte had minutes played at PG before their SR year.
HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark I was much more interested in the discussions about Vick heading into last season. He was my pick to be our best player last season. I think this could be a huge game changer having him back.
I was just pointing out the "mention."
"He can play point guard I think" "He's not a point guard"
Still, it is a mention. And honestly in my brief look earlier I couldn't find a single one, but I didn't look terribly hard. Much more on him being a 2 guard plus he has played exclusively 2-4 under Self.
Interesting...
Soren Petro
Verified account @SorenPetro
JESSE NEWELL: Some Kansas players were told a couple of months ago that Vick was gone. Now they’re stuck there. There could be a couple guys on the team that wish they could go elsewhere now.
@HighEliteMajor Preseason fluff as it turns out. Which...is why I do want to see Dedric in action at this level. It is a mention though, which was my only qualifier. I mean, kind of a mention? Self also very firmly states Vick isn't a PG.
I feel there is much more evidence that Vick is simply not a PG. If he were capable, Self would play him at that spot. Also lots of empirical evidence.
stoptheflop said:
@justanotherfan Isn't Dok a guaranteed starter? Coach Self sure seems to like Dok as a starter. Dok was starting as a very raw freshman until he got hurt.
This is the first time Self has had options.
That said, I think Doke starts.
Eh they were huge favorites. Great game though.
BigBad said:
Doug McDermott has/had a great 3 point shot too. Problem was he was such a defensive liability that no team can keep him on the floor. Opposing teams IMMEDIATELY put him in bad spots and attacked. I can't shake the thought that this is Svi's future and he wont last long. Hopefully I'm wrong.
And if Hoiberg did it at the college level to great success...
KUSTEVE said:
@BShark I remember a Tucky fan caterwauling because we got a 2 seed with 9 losses back in the Wigs year( 2013-14), and I simply told him it's the schedule. That was the year we played the toughest schedule in college basketball in the last 20 years. I think that is the main reason we've lost to lower seeds in the past- our schedule elevates us to perhaps a higher seed than the eye test. As much as it pains me to say it, the year we lost to the Shlockers they were simply better than us. Not this year.
I would love to play WSU this year lol
jaybate 1.0 said:
BShark said:
jaybate 1.0 said:
Vick is the difference between a paper team and a real one.
Back when Brown found him, he was a future PG; then Self put him through the play-out-of-position at the 2-3 for 3 years. Board rats forget he is really a PG. Like Devonte and Tyshawn he is primed for a great 4th season at the point, after serving as domestique at the 2.
Vick at point would be cruel MUA most games!
Self will probably start out playing him as a sixth man at all perimeter positions to show Grimes and Dotson they aren’t ready.
Vick was never considered a PG. He was recruited as a 2/wing.
——————
Evidence please.
Next.
Every article and recruiting service and mention of him. I challenge you to find a single article or quote from Self calling him a PG.
I'll humor you though.
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2015/lagerald-vick-6055 ↗
https://247sports.com/Player/Lagerald-Vick-75845//high-school-130051 ↗
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/202794/lagerald-vick ↗
https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article22932219.html ↗
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/06/02/lagerald-vick-kansas-recruiting-2015-reclassifies ↗
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2015/may/17/lagerald-vick-commits-kansas/ ↗
Here is even an article from when he committed to SMU: https://smu.rivals.com/news/breaking-3-star-sg-lagerald-vick-commits-to-smu-reclassifies-to-2016-free ↗
@kjayhawks Oh I really don't care about how good they are. I just love the hilarity of the guy that fancied himself Lebron's nemesis and blew in his ear is now his team mate.
LANCE STEPHENSON AND LEBRON TOGETHER
CATS AND DOGS. ANGELS AND DEMONS.
:oncoming_police_car:
chriz said:
Don't know if they'd make as much on PPV though. Certainly not a good PR move either. Is there any other school in the country that does that?
The optics would definitely be bad. And as for how much money would they make, that is a good question. I'd be in at a similar price point to @HighEliteMajor but I bet many people would not be. How does this compare to tv station deals and ad money? I honestly have no idea.
Kcmatt7 said:
Go back to 38 the spot. Ask for donations if you need to cover lost revenue. But put the games where everyone can watch them.
Agree.
Let other local channels pick it up if they want to as well. I almost guarantee WIBW or KSNT would pick them up in Topeka... No doubt other stations down in say Wichita as well.
FarmerJayhawk said:
Sounds like Hurt to KU could happen in the fall. Would be a great addition and solidify a need early on.
USA USA USA.
Def take him and let the chips fall where they may with JRE. Would love to see both at KU tho.
Kcmatt7 said:
@KUSTEVE Imagine if he convinces 3 players to redshirt....
I don't think they want to tie up scholarships that long, but it would be crazy.
Best in the business.
jaybate 1.0 said:
Vick is the difference between a paper team and a real one.
Back when Brown found him, he was a future PG; then Self put him through the play-out-of-position at the 2-3 for 3 years. Board rats forget he is really a PG. Like Devonte and Tyshawn he is primed for a great 4th season at the point, after serving as domestique at the 2.
Vick at point would be cruel MUA most games!
Self will probably start out playing him as a sixth man at all perimeter positions to show Grimes and Dotson they aren’t ready.
Vick was never considered a PG. He was recruited as a 2/wing.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
I did hear the team voted
lol
jayballer73 said:
BShark said:
Gorilla72 said:
But Charlie Moore already has #2!
Vick has to change numbers and do summer school. Maybe he will reach some kind of a turning point. If he finds another gear watch out.
only needs 12 hours in Summer School to graduate - if he can get his head on right , this team is just insane - -need consistency from him though , no more disappearing acts in game time - -better defense
To graduate while still doing all his SR year work too right? Like, he was pretty behind.
Cunliffe can RS, but he is more likely to transfer after this season than do that.
KUSTEVE said:
@BShark We could do the two lineup thing, like Tucky did a few years back. We're deep as the ocean.
Key difference: Self is an actual coach. I'm not convinced with Calipari. LOL.
I beat Self only rolls 9 deep. Someone will be upset. Or Silvio won't be eligible... Stuff will work itself out. Expect 0 minutes from Agbaji, Mitch and Cunliffe. 10th guy is probably McCormack. But man yeah talk about a loaded roster.
@KUSTEVE I think he was looking at a RS anyway.
Woodrow said:
This will effect KJ. Wonder if we will hear from the outspoken Lawson Dad about this.
I could still see KJ start. Part of accepting Vick back maybe means he needs to come off the bench. Word around the program on KJ and Garrett is too positive for them to not get minutes, imo.
Going to be very interesting to see how things develop.
http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2018/jun/29/lagerald-vick-to-return-to-kansas-for-se/ ↗
"Self, who flew to Memphis last week to meet with Vick and his mother, LaLa Vick, talked to his veteran guard again this week and laid out a list of undisclosed rules and stipulations that would need to be met in order for Vick to return.
After a couple of discussions and some time to think, both parties agreed that rejoining the Jayhawks would be the best thing for Vick. "
Gunman said:
Does that mean the pool is open?
IT DOES.
Per Fran Fraschilla
"Had long talk with Bill Self about the Vick situation when we were in Canada. A great “addition” if he’s on Self’s page. Vick wasn’t reading same book last season."
DOTSON, VICK, GRIMES, DEDRIC, DOKE.
BENCH: Garrett, KJ, Moore, Silvio
DEEP BENCH: Mitch, Cunliffe, McCormack, Agbaji
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOD LAWD HAVE MERCY @jayballer73
Gorilla72 said:
But Charlie Moore already has #2!
Vick has to change numbers and do summer school. Maybe he will reach some kind of a turning point. If he finds another gear watch out.
Woodrow said:
Wow. I am completely shocked. Wonder what Grimes and Dotson think about this....
Will be interesting to see how all this plays out.
I don't think Dotson and Grimes are too worried. Zero chance Cunliffe plays now though and I bet Agbaji takes a RS.
wut
This schedule is loaded. Love it.
jayballer73 said:
A side note yes I understand that Doke - - - Mitch not listed - -but still young
Ftr they weren't listed because they already have a number/didn't switch. Note that Charlie Moore switched to Vick's #2.
lmao
@Kcmatt7 In terms of playing quality both are solid for walk-ons. But make no mistake why EJ is on the team.