I hope he sticks it out, he's already bailed on one college before. When we signed him there was a chance he was needed and now we see he's not a rotation player this year. I'm sure this is what Sam needs for the long run if he doesn't run from it.
BeddieKU23
31745 posts
I've been a big fan of Vick since we signed him. He's in a major slump and negatively impacting this team's potential right now. The hope is the talks Self mentioned this week start to change things around for him like they did Newman. We absolutely have no chance of a great season if his play continues to be this poor.
I think Romeo's decision is more then just Vick. I believe its Vick and Newman. This is how I see it and I'll get to that later. If he's truly down to KU, Vandy, IU then on paper KU would be a no brainer. I think KU sits 3rd for Romeo despite what might be out there to the contrary.
IU is the home school and Archie Miller is a good coach trying to turn around a storied program. His team sucks currently but IU is a year away from turning it around once Miller has "his players". He's got 4 Top 100ish types signed on for next season and a few leftover pieces should give them a chance to be much better next season. Langford can step into IU and get up 10-15 shots a game because there's nobody on the roster as good as him. That's the "business decision" part of things. He gets to showcase himself on what should be a decent Big-10 team next season and keeps his possible lottery pick status doing so.
Vanderbilt is the school I actually think is favored to get him today. Having Garland and Shittu already in the fold makes it very attractive for him to go play with those guys. Vandy has nothing standing in his way as far as PT goes, he gets as many shots as he wants being a SG at Vandy instead of a wing at KU. Vandy has a Notre Dame SF transfer and a Top 100 SF signed as well so I can see Vandy selling him on the other guard spot next to Garland because he'll be a 2 guard in the NBA. If Romeo is serious about Vandy as I think he is they will have to cut someone to make room for him as they are full.
Last we have KU. I know we've discussed the importance of Vick's year end decision but I believe Newman's decision plays just as big a part here. If both leave Langford has a clear shot at a big role at KU next season and I would bet he comes here in that situation. If one returns its likely he's going to see a crowded perimeter.
As we get closer to the spring it will be interesting to see what his comments are about a commitment timeline. If he's waiting until late April/May (that looks good for KU). If he signs earlier I assume he isn't convinced guys are leaving. Romeo doesn't talk much so this will be interesting to get any good intel. As good as Romeo is I do wonder how his recruitment became 2 struggling programs and KU. Calipari turned the other way rather early, Duke bailed as well. I do have concerns about Romeo's character but I'm hopeful those are not anything that actually means anything when its all said and done. He's a fantastic talent that is needed but Top 5 talents usually have more schools kicking the tires for his attention. Just my 2 cents
justanotherfan said:
Grimes' best future is moving to PG. He can be either just another wing guy, but that should be his fall back position. His goal should be to be an all star PG. He can pass and handle well enough to play the point, and as he moves up and plays with better teammates, his scoring demands will become more reasonable.
I agree with that I see him as a pro PG. If that's his goal he'll want to show off that ability at KU despite Dotson being brought in as well. I'm so excited for that guard duo next season.
Ok I'll bite.
It was 1995 and I was a young whippersnapper. My dad is a big UCLA fan but I wasn't around for the Wooden years so I wasn't going to follow his team. I remember we were watching on tv Kansas play UConn at Kemper Arena and KU absolutely dismantled them by nearly 30 points. The Uconn team had Ray Allen. Being from the Northeast beating Uconn was a big thing and I was intrigued with Jacque Vaughn and Jarrod Haase. A week later I remember being at a local mall and going into a sports store and looking for Kansas Gear. I found Vaughn's jersey and begged my mother to buy it for me. She finally gave in after about 3 hours of nagging her. From there I was always looking for the games on TV and following them as closely as I could despite being so far away. Once I hit middle school and started playing basketball myself I just became a crazed fan. I still have the Jersey hanging up in my KU Cave. Will never forget it
Yeah the roster should work itself out at season's end. Even if everyone wanted to return I'm not sure that's what would happen if the staff had Romeo's commitment on the line. These things always work themselves out. Romeo starts here if he comes. I think its more about who leaves that's possibly in his way
Staff visiting Romeo again.
If Grimes was 6'6 ish he'd be in the top 5 IMO. Where he's at currently, he has a decision to make soon about his position after College. I wonder if he's still growing given how young he is. Such an exciting talent
Ugh, Slater with a pick for Duke with EJ Montgomery. Are you freaking kidding me!
Lots of CB movement for one time interest Jermaine Couisnard to Frank Martin..
BucknellJayhawk3 said:
Remember how hard it was for Svi to not enter the draft last year? He was def. not even close to a predicted 1st rounder. Players will leave before their stock peaks. Who knows what they have being whispered in their ears. Sad! I hope Doke stays.
Svi also got hurt during the combine which was extremely bad luck. He did the smart thing. We'll see at season's end what happens with Doke. A combine invite for him would probably end his KU career
wissox said:
@BeddieKU23 That’s my memory of him at LSU.
His shooting?
The game vs the Celtics the day Embiid was announced as a starter they showed Simmons shot chart on the season, 8 made shots outside the paint. Crazy to think how impactful his game is without a shot.
CRH107 said:
Sam had what????
Before he went to ASU as a freshman he had these hype videos of him working out etc. Comes from a real athletic family.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@wissox who has the highest?
Devontae Cacok from UNC Wilmington shot 80% from the field last year. Kid is a beast. This year he's down to 60% since he became their leading scorer. Averages 17 and 13 a game. Last game went for 26 & 24.
Ugh, Emmitt Williams to LSU.
Red-Flag's put aside this was one of my favorite players in the entire class.
The reality was he was always going to a Nike school. LSU selling some goods reeling in 3 5 star recruits.. Wade ain't that good!
HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 Somehow I still think we'd still bet the under.
But we'll see. I think we saw the lightbulb go on for Newman. I do kind of wonder as someone had mentioned, if there is an attitude thing going on. Just searching. The guy is on the outside looking in. His best bet is that Vick/Newman leave, and we strike out on Langford.
I agree the lightbulb has certainly been fixed with Newman and his play is more important at this point of the season. I'm not surprised Sam isn't playing based on the intel we had of him coming in. He hasn't received a fair shake either to prove anything, however he seems to be stuck in no man's land until he figures out how to play the way Self wants him too.
It's so weird seeing Simmons out there as a point forward. If only he could make a shot outside of 4 feet. His shot chart this year looks like Doke's
I'm certainly no expert but with those comments we can put the over/under on Sam's minutes for the rest of the year at 0
BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 Hooooly :poop: Jalen Wilson. He is a kid I think we can close on too.
JRE receiving the pre-KU commitment drop. :coffee: I don't care where Markese is ranked, I like him long term for us. He has a lot of stuff you can't teach.
Okongwu will end up at UCLA.
Still sleeping on Williamson imo.
Yeah that's a big rise for Wilson who was in the 40's I believe before. Never hurts to be in on a kid that makes a rise like that before his senior year. I haven't dived into who else is after him but I saw that UNC is recruiting him. Oklahoma, A&M a few others as well. 247 says he unofficially visited for last weekend's game? Was that true?
Correctamundo!
Poor Sam. The bench it is. Nothing to read from it
Jayballer54 said:
jayhawkeyes said:
@Jayballer54
If only the seniors leave we have 10 returning scholarship players. We have 3 incoming freshman. All of the scholarships are used. However from a scholarship standpoint no one has to leave.So if only Graham & SVI left ? - - so Doke and Vick would still be able to have their Scholi without it taking extra away? - -bottom line they could return without it making an over load and we still would have the spots for our 3 incoming freshmen and possibly Langford?
If Langford wants to join someone has to leave. We probably won't have that issue I think.
Updated 247 2019 rankings.
Targets:
Wiseman/Carey 1-2
Hurt- #4
Achiuwa #5
Stanley #14
Jalen Wilson #15 (big rise for him and he likes KU)
Okongwu #20
JRE #28 (dropped from 5-star status)
Harvey #35
Josh Green #36
Chandler Lawson #49
Hall #66
Jacobs #99 (keeps dropping)
Williamson #208
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
Andre Drummond is a career 40% FT shooter. Doing just fine in the league. FT shooting will not be the reason he comes back to school. SMH
Plenty of other reasons though.
Definitely, I hope those other reasons outweigh the other reasons he would leave. Just pointing out big men do struggle to shoot FT's and have productive NBA careers, even in today's game
We haven't focused on FT's this much since that year in the 2000's that I don't like to name out load
Hawk8086 said:
@BeddieKU23 I don't think he is ready either. But I think he will go. NBA drafts on potential and I think his combination of size, quick feet, and touch (though unrefined) will be enough.
I hope I am wrong.
It's never an exact science interpreting who's going and staying especially at KU. We have seen just about everything in the Self Era with guys leaving early.
Doke is still so young and I honestly don't see him making an NBA team next season taking everything into consideration. However here I am still expecting him to leave at season's end based mostly on gut feeling. And Self certainly recruited transfers and HS prospects in preparation of him leaving. If he returns I'll be ecstatic. Despite not being on draft boards, the NCAA Tournament (if KU makes a deep run) and a potential combine invite after the season are important factors to watch going forward with him. Right now its just best to enjoy him while we have him (besides his FT's).
FarmerJayhawk said:
New Givony mock has Graham at 37, Svi at 47, and that’s it
No Vick huh? That didn't take long. Can See Newman's stock starting to creep up if he continues this stretch into February
I hope he returns for the record. I don't think he's even close to prepared to be a professional.
Glen Miller might have the cure
http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-mens-basketball/hc-uconn-free-throws-0405-20140404-story.html ↗
UConn shooting 75% as a team this season, their top 4 scorers are 199 of 243 from the line on the year (81%).
mayjay said:
Sure, he is 7 feet. And he makes FTs in practice, too. And if you just wish hard enough, Santa will bring you a car next Christmas.
Preston's car came early.
Andre Drummond is a career 40% FT shooter. Doing just fine in the league. FT shooting will not be the reason he comes back to school. SMH
“From a technique standpoint, we’re not going to change his shot in February,” Self said.
OK, great Coach
I still think he goes. Self certainly recruited accordingly
Doke came to college as a bad FT shooter. He's two years into College with the same issue.
They have taught him footwork, post moves, improved his conditioning immensely but haven't improved his shooting touch besides the running hook he's got. Some just don't have it, some will never have it. Doke may be one of those that never gets it. Being as young as he is you hope that's not the case
Bout sum's up everything perfectly.
HawkChamp said:
BeddieKU23 said:
HawkChamp said:
BeddieKU23 said:
wissox said:
Vick and DG shooting 1-13 on threes might have had something to do with the loss too.
Graham was 4-19 from the field. He took 9 shots last night without making a single pass. Certainly didn't help
And yet we were still in a position to win the game. Dominated them the entire second half and whenever Dok was in (outside the last tv timeout).
Yes we were in a position to win, we controlled the first 18 minutes of the 2nd half. However when you shoot that poorly and take a bunch of "me, me, me" shots, the FT's and our coaches decision (lack their of) were not the only contributing factors to the outcome of the game.
When Graham shoots poorly this team is always going to be in a position to lose.
Even in spite of a bad shooting night from Devonte, we still could have won the game. Not everyone is going to be on their A+ game every night shooting wise, but the team as a whole did enough to win until Self decided to allow Dok to be in a free throw contest. He's paid millions to make the correct decisions, especially about obvious stuff.
We could/should have won the game despite his bad night I agree with. We won Saturday against Baylor despite another poor shooting night from Graham. In both games Svi & Newman stepped up and we got enough contributions from others. We've had maybe a few games all season where the starting 5 played their A+ games. Vick continuing his down-spiral hasn't helped either. But with Vick doing whatever it is he's doing Newman has stepped up. So we keep missing the teams ceiling because we haven't seen everyone clicking together. It's why we are in so many close games because every game its 1-2 starters having an average or below average night.
I'm certainly not trying to transfer the blame because our coach deserves almost all of it. Just pointing out that I thought Devonte's poor shooting night was the other big reason the result went the other way.
HawkChamp said:
BeddieKU23 said:
wissox said:
Vick and DG shooting 1-13 on threes might have had something to do with the loss too.
Graham was 4-19 from the field. He took 9 shots last night without making a single pass. Certainly didn't help
And yet we were still in a position to win the game. Dominated them the entire second half and whenever Dok was in (outside the last tv timeout).
Yes we were in a position to win, we controlled the first 18 minutes of the 2nd half. However when you shoot that poorly and take a bunch of "me, me, me" shots, the FT's and our coaches decision (lack their of) were not the only contributing factors to the outcome of the game.
When Graham shoots poorly this team is always going to be in a position to lose.
wissox said:
Vick and DG shooting 1-13 on threes might have had something to do with the loss too.
Graham was 4-19 from the field. He took 9 shots last night without making a single pass. Certainly didn't help
At Oklahoma St fans had signs of the twitter bird trying to distract him
Who would have thought Self would blow a conference game. The Big-12 is his sacred ground.
I've never seen a coaching mistake that blatant from him in all the years. If there are others that top this I'm drawing a blank at the moment.
Its put up or shut up time for both the staff and Doke. Both are forced to deal with the issue now. Both have to game-plan a way to improve. They helped Josh Jackson last season with his preparation and mentality. They must do the same with Doke now. It's hard to believe we all witnessed this last night
Real quality post. There is a lot to agree with in there.
A Few questions. Which conference do you believe is better then the Big-12? Which teams do you think are better then KU?
I watch a ton of other teams. You can pretty much pick apart every top team in America if you ask me.
Nova has one loss to Butler (who seems to have their number). Butler is a 7 loss team who's lost 4 of their last 6. Butler also was beaten by Texas. Nova's best win Xavier? Probably because they are hovering around the Top 10. Xavier was also crushed by Arizona St (who's come down to earth in Pac-12 play) and a 6 loss Providence squad. Or Gonzaga who's a bit down from past seasons (lost to Saint Mary's at home recently). Nova has a great offense, they win pretty and in my opinion have played a pretty soft schedule, numbers seem to indicate as much.
Duke has Kenpom's 82nd rated defense. We've all seen how that song and dance ends if you can't defend. Great talent, Great Coach, 10 wins against powder puffs out of 17. Some quality wins especially MSU. They lost to Boston College who's better then any team they've had in near a decade and still in 10th place in the ACC currently. Or their loss to NC St, another 7 loss team currently in 12th place in the ACC who dropped a game to UNC Greensboro in Non-Con play.
Or what about Purdue who lost to Western Kentucky who's having a decent year, not a world beater. The same Purdue squad that is mostly made up of kids that KU did laps around in the Sweet 16 last season. Purdue wins pretty, they shoot well, they have bigs, they play in a down Big-10 this season where the bottom 4 teams in conference play are 6-27 currently (and Purdue currently has 3 wins against those bottom 4). Despite being touted as one of the best teams in America they have 11 wins against teams RPI 100+.
Notice a theme? It's a crazy year in College Basketball, nobody is that good, really.
BShark said:
If we are dreaming that hard definitely Carey.
It was a dreaming moment, a very unlikely one.
dylans said:
7 est/6 cst. I just shaved an hour off of that eternity (if you’re in central time)
Eastern Time for me! Back an hour we go.
What else you got?
For those wondering KJ Lawson is a redshirt Soph next season. Received a medical waiver for a heel injury suffered in his freshman year.
"A heel injury limited K.J. Lawson to 10 games in the 2015-16 season, forced to watch his brother Dedric win the American Athletic Conference’s rookie of the year award from the sidelines. K.J. was, however, granted a medical redshirt and an extra season of eligibility, and last season, he captured his own AAC rookie of the year honor."
BShark said:
He would be my absolute top wing target. I'm counting Hurt as a 4. Lewis is good but Nike + Team USA? No shot at Watford either. Moore isn't getting out of North Carolina, smells like Roy will close but I will never count Duke out these days. Who knows this kid might even get to 7' tall. He has just about no ceiling but needs a little more polish than a player like Lewis or Watford. Self applies good polish. :joy:
My dream class would be Jacobs, Harvey, Achiuwa, Hurt, JRE. Outside of Jacobs, that's a ton of length. Would be a defensive nightmare. Good multi-year program guards, a multi-year 4 that has a shot at the NBA, and two super studs. I think it's within reach too. Hurt, JRE and Harvey are top targets.
Of course, it's early and there are lots of players KU is keeping tabs on. I also wonder if Chandler is a take because of the now family connection. Achiuwa is better. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
Nice Dream Class.
My dream class would be Vernon Carey, Cole Anthony, Achiuwa, JRE, Josh Green. We can dream right?
In actuality JRE, Achiuwa, Harvey, Jaylen Wilson & Jacobs would be a killer 5 of guys we are recruiting/already have. Malik Hall, Williamson, Leech, Lawson, Hurt, Stanley could be other options as well we pursue but we'll see what the staff needs. It will be interesting to see which Top 10 kids we throw darts at as none of them seem like KU has a legit chance with right now (other then Hurt).
I assume after next year Grimes, Vick, Doke, D Lawson, KJ Lawson & De Sousa could all be gone. 4 of 6 at least. That means anywhere from 4 to 6 open spots as it looks. 19 will have to balance between immediate impact players with guys that can contribute early and develop over time. I see the major need(s) being in the post if a De Sousa were to leave or KJ follows Dedric after next season. Lot of time to be sorted out
BShark said:
@dylans Extremely athletic. Already 6'9'' too (and still growing) that page hasn't been updated. I think he is a top 10 talent. St. Benedict is an Adidas school so that doesn't hurt.
He's a good one and KU has definitely kept in constant contact with him since last summer. Reminds me of Kevin Knox in terms of size and versatility. I believe his brother played for St Johns (God's Gift) was his name if I remember correctly. I can imagine him being a big priority at wing or in our 4/1 combo or whatever offense we run in the future. Hope we keep pursuit
Seems how 7pm is an eternity. Checking out the highs and lows of this team.
Since "the talk" between Coach and Newman (4 game sample):
16.7 pts, 6 boards, and his effort for the most part has been terrific. I have been mighty critical of his fit on this team but whatever was bothering him seems to have passed. For that I was wrong about Malik recently and I'm glad to see him impacting the game for us. Several board members have posted that Malik living up to his rep was just as important as getting another big man eligible. If that 3 ball creeps up to 40% we have a "new man" the rest of the season right?
Paging Lagerald Vick? Where are you:
I've been stunned by this development. Since the opening Big-12 game against Texas, Vick has been a ghost in terms of his impact on the game. Last 6 games- 7 pts a game, first 13- 17.3 pts pg. Is it competition, is it pressure? This is more then a slump, Self has even tried bringing him off the bench. Almost every statistic is down for Vick in conference play. We need him to shake out of this. Or is this just a correction to what he really is? Was his hot start meant to cool down. Whatever the case it would be nice to see Vick snap out of this.
The Freshman:
Marcus has struggled to shoot the ball. Saying he's struggling is being nice. However despite his FT and 3pt issues he's making 57% of 2's on the season. He rarely turns it over and rarely gets yelled at for his defense (something he's ahead of the curve at). Still I'm not sure its a good thing he's averaging more rebounds then points per game. He needs a game where he makes 3-4 shots, give him some confidence. Sometimes you wonder if that's in him this year though.
Silvio- 13 minutes, 2 pts, 3 boards, 4 fouls. Have to be patient here. Hopefully he puts the last game behind him and just continues to grind away. I'm optimistic in February we start to see what he could be to this team.
Udoka's remarkable consistency:
If you had told me at the beginning of the year Udoka would average 14 & 7 I would have said no way, not after missing most of last season. He's improved leaps and bounds in areas and has become a legitimate post presence for KU. His FT shooting remains a great concern as 41% doesn't fix itself easily. Self hire a guru to help this guy out. Doke is also averaging almost 3 blocks a game in the last 4 and showing better court awareness finding open teammates when they look to double him in the post. I'm impressed with him.
Svi for 3:
Making 47% of his 3's, almost 60% at home is crazy good. Maybe the biggest addition to his game could be his mental maturity. He can miss 5-6 shots in a row and yet still can come through with clutch shot after clutch shot. We always wonder who's the guy we want taking a shot with the game on the line, in my opinion Svi is without question our best option. He's quietly been racking up assists as well averaging over 3 a game in conference play.
Mitch's minutes:
Since Mitch's great game vs TCU he really hasn't seen an uptick in minutes- just 8 per in the last 4. Some of its been due to the flow of the game, some of it is Doke staying out of foul trouble. And then we have Silvio joining the rotation so Mitch is in a situation where his stats are always going to fluctuate. The TCU game has in my opinion made him more confident out there at least to the eye. We know what we are getting from him, hustle, effort, some often spectacular blocks and the occasional perimeter shot. Keep it up young fella
Devonte's FTs
Has anyone else noticed his FT's numbers going up in conference play. Averaging 8 per game in far and a team best 86% from the line. He's done an admirable job running the team for the most part. 2.6/1 assist t/o ratio is solid, making 43% of 3's, what else we want from him?
Have it at folks!
BShark said:
What if Bruce ties for the league win again? :joy:
12 year extension
and they will have a Bruce monument built when he's done coaching
It's great I wake up to weekly Big-12 gifts all the time. These just keep on giving
Moses Brown to UCLA. Oh the agony for Maryland fans
StLJhawk said:
I'd be bummed to watch a smaller freshman who can't shoot 3s, FGs or PTs (Garrett) starting and getting 20 minutes a game while I sit on the bench, maybe to the point of leaving if I was Sam. Again, I don't see practices, I guess Garrett is a better defender, and I'm not a coach, but sure seems we could find a guard who offers a bit more upside.
From all that we hear the staff loves Marcus which we all know can play a big part in someone playing vs not playing. Continuing to invest minutes in him now seems like an investment in his and the team's future. We rarely see him making mistakes turning the ball over, or being out of position defensively for a freshman.
He is shooting 57% from the field on 2's, not all is lost for him there. I do agree though there are times especially recently where his lack of offensive ability is appearing to be a major weakness. Teams have scouted accordingly. It's definitely a mental thing for him right now. All we can hope is he finds a way out of this