@mayjay Indiana isnt too far either. I represented KU a few years back in the front row....:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
I only got one comment the whole time so I cant consider their fans too bad.
BigBad
965 posts
I live in Dayton Ohio. I am SURROUNDED by insane fans.
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OSU football
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Kentucky basketball
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UD basketball - Old guys that remember the "hay days" ( They lost to UCLA and Kareem in the NCAA final) they think they are a few classes away from elite.
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Steeler Fans
@BShark Archie Miller better be in Langford's living room in the next two weeks or pitchforks start in Indiana. :satisfied:
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2004: No. 3 Georgia Tech 79, No. 4 Kansas 71 - Roy's boys coached by Self. Giddens was horrible on D, miles couldn't shoot. Jarret jack went off. Played to our seed
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2007: No. 2 UCLA 68, No. 1 Kansas 55 - Kansas full of young talent and ran into a talented UCLA squad in San Jose
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2008: No. 1 Kansas 59, No. 10 Davidson 57 - Self's most complete squad squeaked out win against Stephen Curry
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2011: No. 11 VCU 71, No. 1 Kansas 61 - Sorry but I myself believe Kansas had a flawed roster. Selby not developing and relying on Morningstar and Reed from the outside is meh....team couldnt shoot that day.
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2012: No. 2 Kansas 80, No. 1 North Carolina 67 - Maybe we get lucky because UNC was missing their starting PG
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2016: No. 2 Villanova 64, No. 1 Kansas 59 - Wayne Selden lays goose egg from outside
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2017: No. 3 Oregon 74, No. 1 Kansas 60 - Devonte Graham lays goose egg from outside
I was most disappointed in 07 and 16, the rest were flawed rosters that were finally exposed.
@BShark The players or the coaches?
@jayballer54 How dare you look at the big picture! :wink:
Unfortunately I dont see any 5 star centers on KU's horizon.
@BShark He is a PERFECT fit at the 4 for the Hi Low. His back to the basket moves are lagging and we went 4 out this year so that hurt. Then the off court stuff....
Svi looks to get rid to the ball almost as soon as he touches it in the back court. Not sure if its a confidence thing or just told to get it in Mason's or Deveonte's hands.
@BShark Landon is what he is. It was Bragg's lack of development that really hurt.
The team that lost on Saturday was comprised of players with the following recruiting evaluations:
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5 stars Jackson, Bragg(Didn't see the floor)
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4 stars Mason, Graham, Svi, Vick
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3 stars Lucas, Coleby
Our front court was basically mid major level. Coaching isn't the problem, missing on key recruits is. Imagine the team this year with Jarrett Allen. I always go back to Morningstar and Reed being starters that make an Elite 8. That isnt a disappointment that is called MAXIMIZING talent. But at Kansas those guys should have been role players.
@betterfireE Yes but both graham and Newman I look at like a Chalmers type. Self loves combo guards.
Graham had a horrible game. Vick has a limited skill set at this point.
We have no offense from the post.
What adjustment was he supposed to make?
@HighEliteMajor said:
Another item -- Bragg is gone as gone can be. The guy didn't play last night. That is over. Reminds one of the Greene treatment vs. Nova. Just no excuse for why he didn't play.
Especially given his skill set includes the 10-15' jumper that would have helped against that matchup zone.
If at Late Night we were told that: Bragg would have ZERO impact on the season and Azibuke would be lost due to injury what would have been the expectations for this team?
I would bet that EVERYONE would agree that an Elite 8 run would be outstanding.
Agree but the fact that nobody else could do anything we became one dimensional. Tough to win that way.
@BShark said:
Graham's lack of athleticism really showed last night. Dorsey/Graham and Bell/Lucas is where Oregon had clear cut drastic advantages.
Most here dont want to hear that.
Graham has used the attention Frank gets to get wide open shots and then uses his spastic head fake to clear himself from lower level defenders. Against size and length and equal quickness he struggles.
@Texas-Hawk-10 said:
Why in the hell was Self not telling, Mason, Jackson, Graham, Vick, and Svi to drive the damn ball every possession?
Were you in the Huddle or the halftime locker room?
@Texas-Hawk-10 said:
Here are Bill Self's point totals in all 9 of his E8 games. 55, 81, 71, 55, 59, 61, 80, 59, 60.
Here are THE PLAYERS 3 point shooting stats in the Elite 8
2004 6-19
2007 4-8
2008 5-14
2011 2-21
2012 4-14
2016 6-22
2017 5-25
Bill Self from 3 0-0
@Texas-Hawk-10 said:
@BigBad Oregon does not have better talent than Kansas.
I said "However once the talent levels out and size becomes a huge factor we are in trouble."
The talent was level was very, very close last night and the size/length goes to Oregon.
@KUSTEVE said:
@BigBad I wonder why Vegas had us as 7 point favorites. It is amazing we even had a .500 record with the way you describe our players. The 5'10" guy happened to be the NPOY. Our record in EE games is now 2-5. That wasn't a relaxed team I saw out there- that was a jazzed up team that played scared. Nice job picking out what you feel is a sleight in my post. Sounds like you want to pick a fight. Welcome to the board, btw.
I'm not picking a fight. I've learned to not fall into the Bill Self trap. EVERY year his teams exceed their talent level in their regular season. Then when a tourney match up up with a team with better talent playing well beats us. I dont usually get disappointed. Heck against VCU we, a freaking blue blood, were starting Brady Morningstar and Tyrel Reed. Great ROLE players but not final four caliber players. I wasnt surprised.
This year we depended on a very small player. Frank is great! However once the talent levels out and size becomes a huge factor we are in trouble.
@Eric-san said:
I was actually shocked to see JJ come back in with 10 minutes left. I thought Vick played just fine up to that point. And because JJ had to be careful of picking up a 3rd, he started to think instead of reacting. In hindsight would have been better to just sit JJ to the half, let him gain composure, and refocus to begin the 2nd half.
Agree here and think that a close game at half telling the team Josh didnt even play would build confidence. However its a gamble. Self probably saw how Oregon's best athlete Bell was controlling things and how Mason was our only option. He knew we needed our best athlete to stay close.
Agree bu it does sometimes feel like Duke, UK, and UNC to some extent get their choices and then the rest are fighting for scraps.
My 6 year old son summed up last night. "Graham is terrible tonight"
Not saying no chance of winning. But if we went cold from outside our odds go really down because we cant throw it inside and get a couple of needed buckets.
Did you see how easy Lucas was getting the ball early? Oregon knew that the best defense was to crowd our guards and concede Lucas. If our guards blew by a ton they had Bell to cover things.
@KUSTEVE said:
Bill's approach to Elite 8 games will change, because Bill Self is a winner. Bill has shown he is adjustable, and he will adjust. The Dux were prepared for us from the opening tip. It took us about 30 minutes to finally figure out how to beat the matchup zone, and then we misfired on a ton of open looks. It was like we were trying to make up a 10 point deficit with every shot. This is where a real x and o guy can develop a plan to defeat our opponents. I thought our guys looked lost trying to figure out how to beat that team- they were more ready for us than we were for them.
Did you really think the roster this year was solid enough for a final four? Do you really think its possible to rely on a 5' 10 guard to carry you to a title with NOTHING in the post?
We had a 6'9 center who cant jump higher than 6 inches. The first "big" off the bench looked like a 35&older player all year! This team was only going as far as its outside shot would take it. We went cold and the season ended.
I didn't see any "Out coaching".
The only thing I saw that was troubling was the lack of execution on out of bounds plays. That is usually a staple of Kansas and we had to throw it past half court on almost every out of bounds plays under our basket.
Next year.....more questions than answers.
Do we land Duval?
* list item
Does Malik Newman reap the rewards of a season practicing against a national player of the year?
Does Devonte step into Franks shoes?
Does Bragg come back? If so does he step up his game?
Does Svi come back for a solid senior year?
Does Azibuke become a focal point down low and dominate?
Does Vick improve his ball handling and become a force?
Does Billy Preston make a substantial impact?
Does Marcus Garrett see more time than Vick did his freshman year?
Does Self allow this many 3s to be shot again?
@BShark yep. I wish Danny was still on the staff. Would really have helped with Bragg's development.
@HawkChamp and almost everyone forgets Darrel Aurthur. He was HUGE reason we won but the guards get all the pub.
@HawkChamp said:
@BigBad Thats why I want Bill to have long, defensive teams and mix it up. Its worked well for Jay Wright and Dana Altman.
Bragg gets his head out of his as and Azibuke stays healthy and we could have mixed it up all year
The most interesting thing to me about this loss was the matchup zone that gave us fits. A typical Bill Self high low offense with a solid 4 kills that zone. Short corner shots, high low passes, etc. We've become a pick and roll, spread O this season and its great when the shots are falling and it's worked great with the personnel. However it was a bad mismatch with the matchup zone when 3s aren't falling.
@BShark said:
The EE is a problematic round for Bill.
Self MAXIMIZES the talent. This team had NOTHING inside on Offense...NOTHING. And we still win Big 12 and make elite 8.
Having ZERO post presence was this teams undoing.
Self will never go 4 out 1 in again.
down 6
Do we have energy?!!!!!!!!!!
dig deep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Devonte Graham 0-6 0-5 from 3
Self HATED depending on the 3 when we lost to VCU. This loss could lead to guys shooting a 3 and then going to the bench. LOL
Prediction....Get it down to about 5-7 but run out of gas..
Ton of guys holding their shorts.
Graham's spastic head fakes have done NOTHING against Oregon's size.
Obviously Bragg's time at KU is done! Good Bragg's energy could help but Self has lost trust.
Has any team ever had 3 guys average 20ppg in the tourney? We are approaching that!
22.6 BIFM
20 D
18.3 JJ
@BShark said:
@DCHawker
I'd probably take UNC if I absolutely had to pick just because of how well Self has done against Roy.
Normally I'd agree but this years KU team is not a typical Bill Self squad. We are playing the way Roy's boys wouldn't be physically beaten. It be a run and gun high scoring affair.
I'm still not used to having a legit post presence on a Bill Self Kansas squad. Every game I worry about going cold from the outside. I'm starting to believe that the penetration that Frank and Devonte provide really does make up for it though. They draw fouls and/or score, or kick it out to guys who get wide open threes. In 2012 I worried about not having the consistent outside game to open it up for the bigs down low. I think Id rather have great guards in the tourney so I vote 2017!
@hawkmoon2020 After the 2007 debacle where we were a #1 seed and UCLA a #2 seed in SAN FREAKING JOSE, I dont ever want to hear a complaint about a "home game" if ou are the LOWER seed!
We were a 1 seed and got screwed!
@AsadZ said:
Purdue is a nightmare match up for KU, team with great size and >40% trey shooting. Biggie is a double-double machine and they have solid guards who can shoot. KU has not faced such a team this year. Baylor come close but they shoot treys in mid 30s. KU will have to execute game plan flawlessly to win this game. I am scared on this one.
I was worried about this game the minute the bracket came out.
I normally like to keep winning. However with this team I think they occasionally need their focus sharpened. They tend to fall behind and then REALLY get after it. They have gotten away with it at times and Devote even had a quote yesterday about them thinking they could kick it into high gear. Losing to a team they SHOULD beat and not being able to kick it into high gear should perk all of their ears up to Coach this week. Plus Mason could use some rest.
@jaybate-1.0 said:
Who believes Cal and Coach K would equal Self's record with this KU roster, if they were coaching it?
Any one that does I've got diamond mines under STRONG HALL to make you a deal on.
This right here.
Every season I look at the roster and I honestly make a prediction based on many years of watching basketball. (I've been a KU fan sine 1986 when I was 12.) Almost every season coach Self he has me raising my expectations around this time. It's his ability to maximize the "talent" the team has. Then when the tournament comes the team almost always meet the expectations I had in preseason. Of course then you hear the media and fans say "what is wrong with Kansas?". Why do they underachieve in the tournament? Again Self MAXIMIZES our talent. Seriously would coach K or Cal roll into an NCAA tournament with a Brady Morningstar or Tyrel Reed STARTING? If they did the media would cut them slack and say its a down year for them. Currently Duke has NINE McDonald's All Americans on their roster....NINE! If Duke makes a run to the final four the media will make a huge deal that K is the best ever. If they don't make it you wont hear much when in reality it would be an epic failure. Self's regular season titles at all conferences he has coached in proves what my point is, that he maximizes the talent he has. Now if he could somehow land recruiting classes similar to Duke and UK.......
@BeddieKU23 said:
Don't forget Cunliffe.
IMO the likely-hood that Graham and Svi both return is 0%.
There's many ways to look at this situation but if Young commits tomm we pretty much have our answer about Devonte.
Which shows you the state of college basketball and the draft pipe dreams. Svi is NO WHERE NEAR athletic enough to play in the NBA. He isnt a consistent shooter and he struggles to defend. He should be a 4 year player.
With about 4 minutes to go I was cursing Devonte.:laughing: When he plays well it makes us REALLY hard to beat. He was not any good until about 2 minutes left. Then he was outstanding.
@truehawk93 said:
I say let the kids play and finish the year. .....
Put Bragg on a tour of Kansas schools to tell his story and how terrible it was to mix drugs, school, and sports.
So if he gets to play and isnt really punished how exactly does he tell kids its "terrible"?