@BShark You would think - but we had Bryant with 2 with 10 minutes to go and we're not paying him/them pay...
DCHawker
4842 posts
Nice run!!!!
Bryant is dominating our "bigs"
@jaybate-1.0 And, it looks like HCBS had a few extra beers the offseason....
@DinarHawk One certainly hopes that someone on the staff watched the game in which WVU not only suffered its only loss, but got beat (down) 47 - 19 over the last 23 minutes of that game. Particularly as UVA is very similar to KU in terms of personnel - veteran team, not really big, strong guard play, and one fairly skilled forward - big difference being that KU ostensibly has a lot more quality depth. By the way, while our perimeter players are our strength and I like FM and DG a lot (putting aside last night's performance), those who have said we have the best guard tandem are perhaps being a bit hyperbolic - certainly don't have anything on Brogdan and Perrantes.
@jaybate-1.0 @HighEliteMajor
So, let's stipulate that none of our "bigs" can handle Williams, at least one-one-one. That is why scheming and team defense is critical. Don't know if anyone else watched it, but the only other quality team that WVU played before last night was UVA. They got beat 70-54 on a neutral court. It was 7-1 UVA in the last 3 minutes of the first half and 40-18 UVA in the second half. Whatever else UVA has, it's not highly skilled bigs - Gill at 6-7 or 6/8 and maybe 230 is it. He went for 20-12. Williams went for 10-3. UVA played 4 guards more than 20 minutes each - and two forwards (the other 6-7) more than 20 minutes each. The other UVA bigs played fewer than 10 minutes each and were non-factors.
Why was UVA successful and we weren't.? UVA had trouble with the pressure - ended up with 19 or so - although most were in the 1st half. The difference was recognizing what WVU was doing or wanted to do and adjusting. UVA pack line defense is always difficult to score against, but in the 2d half particularly they really packed it in. Every time Williams touched the ball he was doubled. There were no open lanes to the basket. Basically, they forced WVU to make jumpers and they couldn't do it (couldn't really against us either).
Offensively, UVA make a few 3s in the second half, which brought the WVU guards out further, and then Perrantes or Brogdon would penetrate, but typically dish to Gill (9-11 from the field) for a lay-up or short J.
A case of a veteran and skilled, but not uber-talented team taking the initial punch, collecting themselves, adjusting and making the other team do what it isn't particularly good at.
Not rocket science as noted in one of the other threads. Why our bigs were guarding Williams or Holton outside the lane is beyond me. Why they would chase after them to the top of the key when they were hedging/screening is beyond me. As poorly as we executed on the offensive end, the most vexing thing is how badly positioned we were defensively throughout the game. The reason we got so many fouls called was not (just) because of bad refs, its because we repeatedly let their guards get past our and have relatively unobstructed paths to the rims, with the result that we were constantly reaching and slapping.
@HighEliteMajor Regarding the futility of trying to score inside.... We made exactly 10 2 pt shots the entire game. Ellis had 7 of them. The rest of the team combined, including the vaunted C5 had exactly 3. One each by Mick and Lucas, each of which weren't created buckets, but rather uncontested loose ball freebies. One by Mason. That's it. And, this against a team that is not big inside and plays 3 small guys. Sure, Williams has bulk, but he's not that tall and doesn't elevate. Holton isn't any bigger than Ellis.
The ONLY way we will be able to score inside with any kind of consistency is by spreading the floor and hitting some outside shots. We may not hit them, but we have much better chance of scoring from longer range than close-in - at least when we are simply throwing it down low or driving without looking to dish against a packed in defense.
We got an early lead in part by hitting three early 3pt'ers, and then, as you note, mostly stopped shooting them. Took something like 8 3 pt'ers from the 5 minute mark until the last 2-3 minutes, when we launched 6 and hit 4 of them when it was too late to matter.
But, as bad as we were offensively, my own view is that the biggest problem was our defensive scheming, but that's for another thread...
@jaybate-1.0 WVU is a good team, and a loss on the road to a good team in conference certainly isn't the end of the world. Would have been mildly (but pleasantly) surprised to come out with a W. But, it's the manner of loss that is so vexing. It's not like they shot the lights out or played that well - it's more that we played very poorly - and not very smart. Didn't seem to be any adjustments to what they were doing. We should have packed it inside and made them make a few outside shots - never did anything to stop their dribble penetration and pick up a lot of cheap fouls.
The question is whether anything is really learned from this...
Well, our 3 PT % is actually going up!
We've made exactly 10 2 pt shots the entire game. That's hard to do - or not do - or whatever.
@RockkChalkk 7 for Frank and 6 for Wayne.
Remarkable is that they are shooting 32% overall and 27% from 3 and beating us my double digits. Effort and smarts. We have 10 fewer ORBs and twice as many TOs. Plus missing FTs.
@Crimsonorblue22 We've played 11 - they've played 9. How come they look strong and faster???
@RockkChalkk DG has missed 2 front-ends
Closed the gap when Mick was in and as soon as he comes out, we have zero rim protection - JT simply can't provide it.
For guys that were highly ranked out of HS and have played college for 3 years now, it's amazing how poorly BG and WS handle the ball. All right hand and barely that....
Svi doens't have any problem with English -- "F*** me"
By far Frank's worst game this year....
@KUSTEVE All I'm saying is that I fully get - based on what I see on the floor - why we're getting a lot of the fouls called against us - not just tonight.
@KUSTEVE Again, maybe, but how come we weren't getting the benefit of home cooking at AFH?
@KUSTEVE Perhaps, but there is a pretty consistent pattern over several games that our opponents are getting to the bonus much more quickly than we do. I see a lot more poor fundamentals and reaching on our part than getting mauled (not to say that doesn't happen).
@DinarHawk Yes, there seems to be a lot of complaining about the refs - in this game and others. But, the problem is not with the refs, its how we are playing defense - or not. We consistently allow too many open lanes into the paint and to the rim and then reach or slap f up high. Note the contrast when Frank or DG are penetrating - they are collapsing and closing off the circle area around the rim. They are not a good outside shooting team - we should be forcing them to make outside shots. Notwithstanding 1st half numbers, I'll take our guys from 3 over theirs any day.
The "highlight" they just showed at the break is indicative...
Gotta love Huggy...
They have 10 ORBs to our 3. JT cannot handle Williams down low.
@DinarHawk No conception of what they are doing. Their bigs are no threat to score from more than a couple of feet. Should be sloughing off and protecting the paint - absolutely no reason for their guards to consistently get to the rim.
@BeddieKU23 Maybe Vick gets some minutes???
We are "sped" up as HCBS would say. Rushing everything - including wide open outside looks. Not even coming close. Want to attack the press, but do it smartly.
@brooksmd Even with both DG and FM in, it almost looks like we didn't practice against a press - struggling to get anyone open. Just setting one basic screen at the top of the key.
Geez - Mick lasted 5 minutes last game, fewer than 3 this time...
@Bwag Great contribution. Not just opinion, which is always welcome, but lots of juicy data. Numbers don't tell the whole story, of course, but there is a reason that all pro sports are paying more attention to these kinds of metrics. In this case, the data seems to support what many of us have been saying for a long while now regarding the net overall contributions on the court of our bigs. Yes, these metrics don't directly cover things like screens/hedges, blocking out and the like, but the do so indirectly in some of the efficiency metrics. Bottom line is how the team performs, both offensively and defensively, when certain players are in the game. To be clear, I'm glad that LL and JT are on the team and they provide important depth and can present match-up options. But, I many posters have suggested, the team seems to perform better when HM and CB are in the game (jury still out on CD), at least offensively, and the data seem to support this. Good stuff.
Well, it's a road win and we need 3 or 4 more of those.
@RockkChalkk May need to make some FTs
Shots not falling, so we go to the tried and true 3 man weave. Killer.
@tundrahok Yes, but Traylor has 0 pts, 2 TOs, and 3 fouls but has gotten several more minutes.
@VailHawk Same thing last game - plays the first few minutes of the game, and never gets off the pine after that...
Looking like a replay of the 1st half the last few minutes.
@Crimsonorblue22 Well, they shot just 31% from the field - problem is less with out D then our O, as we shot just 29%...
@RockkChalkk We may need all 25 fouls for the C5!
Saw the bottom crawl - Ariz and USC topping us and OU - in 4th OT.
@joeloveshawks Greene from 20 ft is a much better % shot than Lucas from 2 ft.
@Crimsonorblue22 Yes, be selfish now...
Landon got stuffed and the guy didn't leave the floor.
30% for us, 32% for TT so far...
This is like a bad high school game...
@wissoxfan83 Remember we lost one such game in '57.
Give our guards props. No TOs by DG in 35 minutes after half time. 7 RBs each.
Stats pretty even across the board now - FTs and fouls have evened up. Big difference is 10 more 3Ps attempted by OU - both made 50%.
@wissoxfan83 Yup - all drives to the paint now...
@approxinfinity Clearly not gonna happen unless someone fouls out.
@wissoxfan83 14