@bmensch1 Self does have NBA talent though. Doke, Dedric, Grimes, Dotson, and even Vick. All have a chance to play in the NBA. None of them guaranteed though. And this Agbaji thing is going to be interesting as it plays out.
HighEliteMajor
5416 posts
Exactly. As I’ve mentioned before, this is solely KU’s decision to hold him out. KU just wants affirmation that they will receive no penalties if they play SDS.
He was .. I saw him in the bench.
This would seem like the first real item that claims SDS didn't have knowledge. I like that the lawyer asked for reinstatement, didn't "demand" it. Maybe the lawyer knows something is coming, releases a statement, so it appears his involvement caused movement. Pieces are maybe coming together.
Like Eric Berry -- day-to-day. In perpetuity.
I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a repost of the Athletic content today ...
@BShark Thanks .. great article.
@BShark Can you cut and paste the article?
Duke will be a #1 seed. We know it right now. They are probably the best team overall as well.
@Crimsonorblue22 You're braver than I am ... but the idea of having SDS should get all KU fans very excited. The guy is dynamic, and would fit perfectly with what Self is wanting to do now. He can fly up and down the court, and is skilled.
@KUSTEVE Oh, the "real" fan speaks. Good for a chuckle.
@Kcmatt7 Your response was an off-putting, "Let's fire him." Much like many do in reply when anyone criticizes him. If you would have phrased it differently, I would have caught your point I think. You may not have meant it that way, but that's how I read it.
So you think it's clear he has knowledge of the muck and he's lied? Ok.
I do think Self should be fired if he lied about all of this in that press conference. That was too public, too black and white from a leader. I'm in the camp that's more in favor of waiting and seeing. Of course, your view on this as far as the facts are hard to dispute (and I don't).
@MR11 Don't be so sure. In fact, if that happens, I think it's highly likely that he's gone. I really wish he'd have hedged it all a bit as I mentioned just after the press conference. That's why you listen to your lawyer. Even if the actual knowledge (details) are shielded from the King, hedging would still be better.
@Kcmatt7 Of course, an inflammatory comment made to distract from the point being made.
@kjayhawks It should scare you. I think the NCAA might have a bit bigger burr in its saddle if it thinks Self publically lied. We could be the example.
Which goes back to my "burn it down" strategy. Tell the NCAA if they want to hammer, so be it .. but we know where the bodies are buried. Maybe hit us with the loss of a scholarship for a couple seasons, and be done with it.
Let's look at KU now .. why are we just now prepared to formally acknowledge this? How about doing that at the same press conference where Self proclaimed himself free of any knowledge of third party inducements provided to our players? Conflicting narratives? I don't know.
Garrett running the point .. extra bonus? Moore isn't.
I say back to the basketball season. I hate this stuff.
How about that Mitch Lightfoot?
@BeddieKU23 Either Self and KU have been wildly screwed here as they are clean and don't involve themselves in this stuff, or Self is a complete liar. It's that simple.
I'm having trouble believing option one.
The latter concerns me of course if he's lied so blatantly. But if it is a lie, that creates a greater scenario that Self might not be here next season. If you lie, get put in a corner, an easy escape route is the NBA. I'd mentioned a few months ago my concern about the scenario the trial result created, and the possibility that Self might not be here.
I'd rather worry about Garrett's shooting.
@truehawk93 So you refer to "K, Cal, and other crooked programs." Do you believe we are a crooked program then? Basically, that we're just doing what others are doing? Not trying to catch you on one word, but it seems like that's your theme.
You know the box you're in, correct? Self said he is not aware of any third party inducements provided to his players. So he's saying we're clean. What do you think about his apparent lack of candor (put nicely)?
But I do understand your position. If we're getting investigated, then others need to get investigated too. I agree. We can't be the fall guy.
That goes to my comment back when Self spoke on this -- KU could take the position with the NCAA that if they are going to punish KU, and not equally apply this to other wrongdoers, then KU will spill the beans on everything it knows about other programs, and money, and corruption. Burn the whole thing down.
However, KU can only control KU. And if we're involved in this stuff, pointing at others and saying "he did it too" is a loser's game. Lots of folks in jail that said the same thing. It's a conscious choice we made, knowing the rules.
This got me interested. I'd compared Grimes/Selden before, too.
Grimes vs. Selden -- Selden's stats below for his first full season as a freshman. I'm using % and per game.
Grimes/Selden -
1. Pts 9.0/9.7
2. FG% 42.2/43.7
2. 2Pt% 54.2/53.0
3. 3Pt% 29.8/32.8
4. FT% 62.5/62.9
5. Reb 2.4/2.6
6. Asst 2.0/2.5
7. Stl .3/.7
8. TO 2.0/1.7
9. PF 2.4/2.0
11. PER 9.1/12.3
It seems that Selden's stats are better. But not by much, and we're only halfway through the season. I'd bet on Grimes netting out better.
I was surprised that their FG% was so close. Selden was better for the full year vs. Grimes 1/2 season. Selden wasn't much of a rebounder. But the stats show him ahead of Grimes. Steals and assists-wise, Grimes lags too.
Selden for his career was 43.6% total, 49.4 2pt%, 36.6 3pt% - shooting almost 40% from three his junior (final season). He did improve the three point shooting but not his two point shooting.
The non-scoring items should probably be areas of focus for Grimes -- Rebounds, Assists, and Steals (disrupting). This impacts the PER. We all know that would help improve his game.
With this poor shooting team, we sure could use a Withey or a TRob.
One nice benefit of Agbaji's addition -- Charlie Moore 4 minutes, he of the 7.3 PER. That appears to be the squeeze. That makes us better than without Agbagi.
I get the match up thing, but David McCormack, one minute? We are really going to play Mitch Lightfoot over a McDonald's all-American? Seriously, who will be better in March with quality minutes. The fact is if we play McCormack, he will improve AND it's unlikely that Mitch will get worse.
Worth watching, because it might be critical to our tourney survival. It's guarding against Dedric in foul trouble. Mitch and guards vs. McCormack and guards? Certain teams will destroy the former.
@BShark I think it sometimes is overlooked that Embiid was really, really good when he got here. The video we looked at when he signed evidenced incredible skill. It wasn't the normal dunkfest stuff that some videos are. Ball-handling, footwork, shooting touch. The whole package. But he did take off with the high quality coaching applied to that skill set.
The David McCormack era has begun!
@approxinfinity They could redshirt him, because this year would count toward his eligibility -- 5 seasons to play 4, except for a medical situation after using the initial redshirt.
@mayjay - That's a really good point. Furthers the "don't worry about the 4th year" thing. I'm more into the here and now, because we don't know what four years will bring. Heck, selfishly, I might get hit by a bus .. win now.
If Ochai is really good, then he'll be gone after his junior year anyway. We lost little. If he's Releford-esque, then we lost the first semester of this season is all. I love the move if he can help now. Further, if we can't replace him in what would be his fifth season, we're slipping in recruiting. I sell the 4th year all day long in this climate. Exceptions, of course. But I'm all for it -- mainly because Self knows why he wants it done.
Further, there is the possibility that of Ochai plays, and he's bad for whatever reason, then can fall back on the stress fracture thing and get him the redshirt anyway if he doesn't go over the max games.
@BigBad To play McCormack now makes him better in March. But there will be tough times I’m sure. On the defense thing, we’ve never really pressured. It’s always token and mostly useless.
@BShark Ochai playing seems to indicate there is little faith in McCormack. And it shows what we know and you said about Moore and KJ — not guys that are reliable, positive contributors. Really quite a surprising development.
@Woodrow While the easy answer may seem yes, it’s not. Ball hogs never help the team dynamic. To make our team better, mixing in some kick outs and post-to-post, is a small improvement to ask for. And it would make us better.
@Woodrow Interesting .. So does/did Doke. Doke is/was a black hole. Now, Doke could usually get the ball in the hoop.
Nice to have TCU at home ...
@mayjay Works for me ...
@BeddieKU23 Excellent Nova reference. And to combat that, you have to get your big out on the perimeter, so he can drive and dish if jumped by other defenders (seems perfect for Dedric). Inside screening action is basic to working against that inside. Moving to the free throw line. Back screening high. Standing on block won't cut it. If Dedric is in fact the best passer ever in the history of mankind, he should have no trouble passing out of a double on the block, to a cutter to the hoop (if we actually employed that strategy -- brings me back a few years and the discussion after the SDSU loss at home). This is a critical option for team that doesn't shoot great. We have to attack the hoop out of those double teams low.
All is not lost. But Self has to really attack the "attacks" on Dedric aggressively. He completely blew the Nova game with Ellis. Can't put lipstick on that pig. But we have what's before us. And this team -- still -- can beat anyone (it may now take the right night against some teams though). We should still have optimism -- yes, I'm talking to you @Crimsonorblue22.
Remember, we are still in the hunt for the NC until we lose in the tournament. And that's a long way off. You never know what he next 2 or so months will bring.
Start Dotson, Grimes, Vick, Dedric, McCormack.
Garrett as sub at 1, 2, 3.
Lightfoot at 4 - move Dedric to 5 when they are together.
But we can run with doses of playing small when McCormack or Dedric is resting vs playing Lightfoot.
7 man rotation.
Play Moore and KJ only in emergency.
Just my opinion - I see Moore as one of the least impressive overall players to get real minutes under Self. He doesn’t seem even average at anything. So far. KJ just seems subpar. Why play either unless necessary?
While this is disappointing, this could be really fun. Now we are really vulnerable. But we have coach Self. No one else can say that. I’m not betting against him.
@approxinfinity Yes — 1st team AA.
@Kcmatt7 Uh, no we won't. Doke's done. Nice thought though. Ugh.
RED ALERT
Start David McCormack. Start him now. Live with the ups and downs. It is critical that this guy develop. He won't do that playing a 10-12 minutes. Start him. Play him 'till he drops.
Some guys are just boneheads. I doubt Self would hesitate to pull the trigger if true. But we aren't going anywhere without a functioning Vick. He's critical.
"Fast" is one thing. Using "fast" is another thing. Good point is that Devon, straight line with the ball, is faster than Frank was. However, we can see that Frank was better.
Of course, the excellent point that DD is better as a freshman is true. We'll see how that translates in the future if he's here. DD is terrific. He could be quite amazing by the end of the season.
One thing I love about DD is his demeanor. As with Dedric. Not a lot of screaming like fools and chest pounding. Frank the same way.
There will never be another Frank Mason.
One important thing to remember is that the NCAA has not made us do anything with SDS. KU is choosing to sit SDS out of caution. It’s our choice. And that choice is made by folks with more info. The same ones that say Preston. And we now know some of that story.
@jayballer73 Perhaps we are seeing the "real team." It's pretty good. But I wonder if it's in this teams DNA to be able to put together complete games. I bet we can here and there, but I doubt we can consistently, as composed. If guys take a bit jump forward - -perhaps two of the following, Grimes, Moore, McCormack, Garrett -- then we're in a different world. That's what we need. Still, even without that, who in CBB can't we beat? We can beat anyone even with our issues. That means things can bounce our way come March.
BeddieKU23 said:
I would agree that the FBI probably has an impact on this.
IF this was just about the $2500 I would like to think a ruling would have been made.
But what if this about the shadow of doubt surrounding the 60k Maryland Booster and the 20k payback to the guardian or the alleged pro contract in Spain. That would give the NCAA plenty of reason to pump the breaks.
What if the NCAA is waiting until the spring and the other trials to try and figure out if KU assisted in this class payment to get him enrolled early?
Agreed .. this is likely deeper. We just don't get the flow of info.
I still think SDS waiting all season to see if he's cleared for next year is better than bolting. If he can come back, play well, it could be the best career move.
Unlike other perspectives, I don't fault the NCAA here for their handling of this. Heck, they could be investigating KU and Self more directly here. Any investigator worth his salt would be.
While we don't know if SDS knew .. I think we can piece this together. As @BeddieKU23 and @Crimsonorblue22 suggest, there is likely more to this.
But one possibility is that the FBI's involvement has impacted how the NCAA handles certain situations. A $2500 issue was handled one way yesterday, and another way today. It does seem that the SDS issue goes deeper than that.
@mayjay Perhaps he learned from Billy Preston's experiment? Staying on the bench at KU might be the better long term path.
@drgnslayr Frank Mason says, “easy, partner.”
@Kcmatt7 Not the stud that Mason was.
@BShark Mason was faster.
I am not embarrassed by my Mason love.
@truehawk93 Please note from Mellinger's rehash that he makes a wild assumption -- that SDS did not know of the payment. It's like saying Self didn't know. All involved try to protect the star. It's just speculation that SDS supposedly didn't know. I personally think it's likely that he did know.
Aside from that, don't buy this narrative. And don't focus your anger elsewhere (at Duke). Think of this logically.
First, the NCAA isn't perfect. Don't expect that. It never will be.
The NCAA has rules. The NCAA is a creation of the colleges. The NCAA serves the colleges. The colleges own the product. The colleges own the contracts. The colleges own the stadiums and arenas. The colleges own the intellectual property. All of this funnels through the NCAA. All of this makes a lot of money. It is a business that supports a large number of other endeavors at the colleges.
The athlete has all of the power here. All the athletes has to do is say "no." Say "no", I don't want to participate in this. If that happens, then the dynamic changes. Control changes.
As with most folks involved in a choice, the individual will weigh the positives and negatives. And even with all the stuff folks say about the NCAA, it's amazing the choice these individuals make. Actually, it's a no brainer. The players (all sports) gain immensely and disproportionately - from education, to experience, to connections, to a venue to showcase their talents. A potential lifetime of value. No other avenue provides such a benefit. None.
"Puke" and the NCAA aren't your enemy. The natural impulse to react on something that feels unfair is the enemy.
I know we think differently on this. I understand how this makes you feel. Seeing SDS on the bench makes me mad too. But understanding that the NCAA isn't perfect, and that SDS is sitting there by choice, is a good starting point for this analysis.
@BeddieKU23 What would make you think that? Like, our entire season?
I apologize to Doke. I had this thought when he got hurt that perhaps we might be better overall without him in the lineup. Wrong. This team has to play with two bigs to be at its best offensively as Self mentioned. SDS might alter that thinking. But right now, there is not doubt. Hi/Lo, bingo. Excellent thread.
@AsadZ About halfway back up the hill is when the cold hits me, after the heat from AFH wears off. And I never take a jacket into AFH. Cramped enough as it is.
@KUSTEVE The classic jackass. Traylor was horrible. Lucas pedestrian. Obvious to anyone with an objective brain (excludes you). Those are the players I ran down? Sold. Objective and obvious. As for Self, it is interesting that the points I was most critical about seem to have been modified by Self over the last few years. But don’t let that bother you. Your nose implanted.
But it is you that keeps picking this fight. Anytime you want to stop, that’s your call. Never starts from this end. But out of the blue you keep this crap up. If you want to continue, fine.
Now I’m taking @Crimsonorblue22’s advice. Peacemakers appreciated.
@jayballer73 I read what you write and I'm sorry, you seem to totally miss the points made. Like you just look past them. First, no one has said that there is some great replacement for Garrett. No one. Our options are limited. Second, the sole complaint on Garrett is his horrid offense. That's it. It's nothing more than that. Don't create more than it is. You took what @Bwag said and created a fiction.
And all it this amounts to is analysis and discussion. Folks may disagree. But don't make it more than it is. It's not a personal attack on you.
@KUSTEVE Same old, same old. First, you lie. I never called Newman a cancer. I posted a thread that addressed a topic that had been discussed, and raised a question for consideration given what was seen, and what Self said related to Newman. Further, it was a huge issue because in early February, Self was questioning team chemistry. Thread link below. Again, you're just dishonest. Second, again you lie. I'm not running down Garrett. No one is. It's discussion. I know that's threatening to you. Third, you lie. To suggest that I would want KU to lose amounts to asinine ramblings. But this is deeper with you. You lash out because you have some irrational need to do so. To make yourself feel better. The signs of a fellow with significant insecurity. But even more so, you continue to think that you are somehow a greater fan than others. Somehow more of a true fan. But, of course, you ignore your criticisms of the team and the coach that seep out. No, no, that's ok, you're the true fan. Or, actually, you're just a dishonest jackass.
/topic/7060
@AsadZ There are dorms at the top of the hill, to the west of AFH. Just park up there and walk down. Students are gone, so no issues. When students are back, there are spaces available in the first lot west of the northern most dorm (Templin).
@jayballer73 Now, no quick exit. You make some excellent points. You said, "ya he is a liability on the offensive end" and "Marcus a liability? -- to a point." And that's all I (and others) have said. He is a liability scoring wise. Meaning, defenders can play off of him, and thus impact our other offensive players. Remember that. When he's out there on the three point stripe with Charlie, who will the defense more focus on? And that can impact others -- because defenses will give him the open three pointer every time.
He is a liability on the offensive, as you said. You also said he makes up for it on the defensive end. My point was that a team composed another way -- i.e., more reliable scoring, that's great. Here, that offensive liability is more impactful on our team because we really need more offense (more guys scoring). That's all.
It appears we are probably saying much the same thing. You just more passionately. And being passionate about Garrett's defense and intangibles is something we can all buy into.