The most underrated loss perhaps is the loss to Maryland in the 2002 FF semis. We had perhaps the best team under Roy next to 1997, with both Gooden and Collison. An overmatched Indiana awaited in the NC game, which Maryland disposed of. A sure NC with the win.

What's a blue blood? Easy. It's Kansas, North Carolina, Kentucky, Indiana, UCLA, and Duke. There is no tried and true formula. We just know it when we see it.

We have a significant "blue blood" accomplishment. We've won 14 straight conference titles, in a real conference, with real world roster turnover. Bill Self stands alone. Kansas stands alone.

We now face what has been a Bill Self Roadblock -- the second weekend of the tournament. Bill Self has generally been successful navigating to the second weekend. He has of course made every tournament since he was hired, and has won every first round game, but for the killer B's (Bucknell and Bradley).

But it is the second weekend that challenges Bill Self. It is the second weekend that has tempered the adulation for our blue blood program. We have failed, regularly, to make the Final Four.

Final Fours matter. There are chirps from some that Final Fours don't matter unless you win the title. Or that they are not that important. Idle, irrelevant, and ignorant chatter. Schools hang big banners for Final Fours. Big ones. That is an undeniable fact. The college basketball universe recognizes Final Fours. It is a high bar used to judge programs and coaches. Undeniable. Programs are mocked for the failure to even stumble into a Final Four once in 120 years (MUst we mock?). Final Fours are the World Series, Final Fours are the Super Bowl. You get there. It's an achievement to arrive at the "big dance." The Final Four is the big dance. Without getting to the dance, you can't win a championship.

And the big dance has painfully eluded coach Self. In his tremendous career at Kansas, with all of the great teams and talent, we've seen but two final fours. Coach Roy found his way to four Final Fours.

This has been a clear roadblock for coach Self.

The past two seasons are clear cases in point. Against Villanova, we lost to the eventual national champion. But Kansas was the #1 seed, had played the stronger schedule, and seemed like the more talented team. Against Oregon, the loss was shocking. We had the national player of the year and we had the best OAD in Kansas history in Josh Jackson. Yet we still failed.

Final Fours matter. Think about the discussion if Self had reached the FF in 2011 and 2016. Narrative changer to be sure.

Each season we fail to reach the FF, we bring new or rehashed excuses. I will not list them. Some silly, some partially correct, some even legitimate. Some are present in every loss, by every team. But they sound good because they make us feel better. When the years go by, and the excuses mount like a burning dung heap, they matter little any longer. Just do it. Teams achieve greatness all the time despite the excuses (rational, irrational, or otherwise). It's our turn to do it.

And what better year? We've always discussed how being a team NOT assumed to be a national title team might be the year we actually achieve the ultimate goal.

We need only win two games to reach the Final Four. That creates a legacy. It adds to the legacy of our blue blood program. We need this one.

For some reason, at this moment, I feel it. I've felt it a few times this season. I felt it in my last thread regarding how this team could respond without Doke, and that nothing was over. Now we have Doke and there is no discussion of how we survive. We are fully loaded. We will be at maximum RPMs.

I don't know, but sometimes when things are a bit rougher, when things aren't meshing, when things seem more disjointed and chaotic, the end product can sometimes be that much stronger and resilient.

This season can fit exactly into that category. There is no player that exemplifies that more than Malik Newman. And how many alpha dogs can one team have? We have multiple players that can take over, and that are comfortable taking over. Guys that have produced in critical situations -- Graham, Svi, Newman, and Doke. And we have that extra big we desperately needed. Don't sleep on him. He can win us a game.

For some reason, it kind of feels right this season -- finally. But now is the only time it really matters.

Do we have the best team? I don't know. Do we have the best team to win the next four games? I know this -- I wouldn't trade our team with any other team in the tourney.

Kansas 83 Clemson 69

Kansas 74 Duke 70

See you in San Antonio, my friends.

@kjayhawks And we didn’t foul up 3. Minor detail. And we had no play to score after the three. Minor detail. And we had no play to score at the end of OT. Minor detail. This was a classic case of our coach NOT stepping up to the moment. Self has to step up to the moment just like he players. Our season may ride on it.

@JayHawkFanToo Actually, I agree. I think it was a turning point in retrospect. But you and others purposefully misstated what I had said. Which was the game meant nothing unless KU followed it up with wins to change the narrative. Your comment about our record after that game of course supports my prior position.

And on your suggested victories for KU to win the title, I would not prefer UK getting to another FF. But I’d take any national title.

Now we’ll play Clemson for sure!

It doesn’t matter to me. We’ll win.

He certainly did. Can you imagine Doke and Delgado on the same team? We might have it next season with Doke and Dedric.

@BShark Ok. Did you happen to hear who Dedric’s altercation was with? The “rumor”’of course was always Mitch.

Weird that Whitman would think that he would either be in front of Preston or Doke, or alternatively that he would leave based on competition with Mitch.

@BShark Maxwell had little choice if he wanted to play, correct? He was stuck. He couldnt go to an NCAA D-1 school this last fall.

And on Whitman, nothing changed from the time he signed over the next 2 1/2 months. It seems the roster was exactly the same. We had Doke, Preston, and Lightfoot. Am I overlooking something there? To determine “why”, the changes in events/circumstances are where to start.

On Preston, I understand info may not be offered. What I see with so-called reporters is zero investigation. As a taxpayer, a KU donor, a KU grad, and a guy who had paid for two kids at KU, I’m interested in what we spent the money on. Are you interested? I know one of my KU buddies doesn’t care at all as long as we get no negative repercussions.

I saw this item this morning .. the biggest upset in the tourney, as far as the spread goes, is still Norfolk St. over Missouri. MU was favored by 21 1/2. Apparently UVA was favored by 20 vs. UMBC.

@mayjay Oh, I agree .. but my point has always been, regarding similar matters, the questions are never even asked. They're not asked of the players at any interview session, they are not asked of any assistant coaches, they are not asked of coach Self. In fact, I have never heard any real probing question or follow up.

It is a clique of so-called reporters that value access over everything else. The only "reporting" is of the sensationalistic variety, the kind where news outlets use a non-sports reporter for, the kind where they re-hash old news as 95% of the story.

Now, do I strongly desire such questions to be asked regarding personal matters related to college kids? No, I really don't. I'm fine with the privacy end of it when it might be a personal matter. If Whitman had an illness, ok. No need to get into that. But if Dedric Lawson and Whitman got into a fight, or Evan Maxwell left because he was not enamored with pot smoking or other team issues, I'm interested. I'm interested because that sort of stuff impacts on court performance.

Dedric Lawson got suspended for an "altercation" and how he handled it. What I know is that Lightfoot had a broken nose and Whitman left the program. It is not hard to surmise that Lawson's "altercation" was most likely related to one, or the other. But no one asks the question. No one probes the issue.

Why? It would upset the King.

Of course, Whitman could have had an illness. And that could have been a behind the scenes whisper so no question is asked. But no other questions get asked on other issues, either.

As a KU fan, of course, it might be better for our program if questions don't get asked about internal matters. I grant that.

I guess I have always had more of an issue with with the lapdog reporters when Self made absurd statements about losses, style of play, excuses, etc., and the media just nod their heads. His claims have always gone unchallenged. Self is a pretty honest guy. I think if reporters challenged him on a topic with a precise line of questioning, we'd get more and better insight. But when Self makes simply absurd statements, like losing to Stanford being caused by missing "bunnies", it's really insulting to our intelligence. Some lap it up like milk and honey, but freer minds know better. But others knew and discussed ahead of the tourney that just proceeding status quo without Embiid was a sure fire formula for failure. Heck, even the game announcer commented on the obvious benefits of moving Wiggins to the high post to free him up. No reporter even probed the issue. So we are left with "bunnies."

And even moreso, the things like the Billy Preston deal where we're talking about public monies spent on eligibility, his mom spouting off, etc., and speculation as @CRH107 mentioned. We deserve to know what happened there. We deserve to know the facts.

Anyway, Bedore, Newell, Tait, et. al., can't risk upsetting Self, apparently. So he can say whatever he says unchallenged. It's always been that way.

KU 81 SH 73

Signed May 1, gone July 19. What could have happened? We will never know, mainly because all of the KU reporters are a**-kissing lackeys more worried about yucking it up with coach Self than anything else.

@jaybate-1-0 Something tells me that from this guy’s apparently perverse world, only part of the story has been exposed. Resigning might keep more depravity from seeping out. Cue the gay porn actor in three, two, one ...

@Bwag - Man, could you imagine the discontent on this team among our guards, playing time-wise and shots-wise, if Young would have come here? Not sure we would have been a better “team” with Young. Ayton on the other hand, well, I wish we would have bid $110,000.

Style of play, is all I’ll say. Made UVA vulnerable. I never want to return to that slug it out style. The high/low can be dynamic. I believe Self is well aware of that. Already excited for next season.

And the ref misses a game changing call at the end. What’s new?

@BeddieKU23 I think we’re still on a roller coaster but the valleys might be less severe. Still gun shy a bit. I don’t sense an upset tomorrow. SH is a good team. This is the kind of game that I think focuses this team. Not a lot of time to think about it. Might be better for us. But I think we all see the risk. We won’t be blind sided if we lose.

Are we better than Seton Hall? Yes.

Should we win? Yes.

Do we win all the games we should win? No.

Let’s just remember that we need a full team effort to win. That includes coach Self being at the top of his game.

This game comes with a significant risk of losing. I would say that SH is better relatively speaking than UNi was to our 2010 squad by quite a ways. And better than VCU to our 2011 team, relatively speaking. SH beat Texas Tech in non-con and is a team that would probably slot in ahead of KSU in the Big 12 overall.

We played a very conservative game vs Penn. We only shot 17 3s. That was clearly by design. Our guys could win off the dribble ( is the asssumed theory). We’ll should shoot more 3s vs SH. We shot 40+% from 3 so we did just fine vs Penn. I am assuming the low rate of 3s was game specific ... I hope so. And by design from the coach.

I personally don’t sense an upset here. But would any of us be surprised? Would it be shocking? No.

If someone predicts a KU loss, are they crazy? Absolutely not. After watching SH and KU play yesterday, who played better? Not KU.

I think we come out and take care of business.

@BigBad I think you'll get the former, not the latter.

If this is a different team, and the narrative is truly different -- and by all indications it is -- this is a 20 point win.

However, if we revert to the roller-coaster, to the inconsistency, well, good grief.

We're different now, I believe. This is a team that has found itself. It took a while. Doesn't mean we are a lock to get to the FF. It just means we're a different team.

@MoonwalkMafia You would think ...

@JayHawkFanToo I don’t know why you would think teams that got exposed for one reason or other would survive a double elimination tourney — other teams would have the same benefit. And we got exposed for a reason. Heck, there were three other stud teams in 2008. We might not win that. The only year I think we were clearly the best team is 1997. In other years, other very good teams got knocked off too.

This is how champions are made. How about we just find a way to do it?

I would run hard from Tony Bennett ... like the other way. And I wouldn't even consider hiring him. The slug it out style of play seems to have a lower ceiling most of the time. So once we get past that --

Can a guy recruit elite talent, #1. Not a slew of OADs, but elite, top 75 talent, year in, year out.

2 is he a leader?

3, can he coach .. as in, does he make the sum of the parts better?

4, is he someone we can be proud of?

The fact is, our next hire will be speculative. We won't get the stars to align on anyone. Even a guy like Brad Stevens has never really recruited elite talent.

I know this is a bit out there, but I really like Chris Beard at TT. Very impressive.

@Lulufulu Excellent thread. You are right on point. Look at the UConn Huskies women's team. That was UCLA. UCLA as in the era of no OADs. No guys leaving early. Our streak of conference titles is much more impressive. -- taking a new mix of players nearly every year, or close to that, and winning. With no slip ups. Amazing.

@Jayhawk-in-OKC Ok .. you don't really mean you wouldn't trade it for anything, right?

How about this -- KU wins the national title in 2004, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2016. However, instead of 15 conference titles in a row, we win 6 of them. And we miss the tourney altogether in 2005, 2009, 2013 and 2018, win sub-500 records in two of those seasons.

Trade? And remember, we're still Kansas. Still the same old school we know and love.

@Kcmatt7 In fairness to Self, I think we all agree that sometimes we overachieve a bit in the regular season, so our seeding line might be one notch higher because of how incredible Self is in the regular season in the country. Other teams I know do this too, but Self is the best regular season coach. There are years like 2010, 2011, 2013 and 2016 where our losses in the tourney were just tragedies. Possible national championship seasons. Heck, even last season. Maybe this season we get one.

@Kcmatt7 When do you think Self has overachieved in the tourney? 2004 and 2012. Twice? Other than that?

@SkinnyKansasDude I want Doke back. I like the idea of Self matching to our game situation. We are better with Doke than without. But we’re better with DeSousa being the weapon we thought the hologram was going to be. I liked the way we looked with DeSousa.

Isn’t Bennett’s style/focus eerily similar to the fool’s gold Self days? Answering my own question — yes it is.

@Buster-1926 Hmmmm ... seems a touch like the discussion here, doesn’t it? “Novel theory” ... classic prosecutorial overreach. Thanks for posting.

Interesting how things work out. Does DeSousa fit this team, and it's style of play better than Doke? No doubt, I'd rather have both. But with DeSousa and Mitch, that's quite a few degrees away from Doke and his game (not 180 degrees, but maybe 90?).

Pretty impressive three game stretch this last weekend without Doke. Things sure seemed to click.

Perhaps not having the Doke option creates a better flow, a better on court chemistry? I'm not totally sure. Again, I'd rather have both. But it is interesting.

And there is no doubt that DeSousa is the superior rebounder.

@mayjay They did away with the regional pod system a while back as being a fixed deal. For example, we could have been the #1 in the East, but still be in Wichita for the first few games. There are two, four team groupings in each early round site. So in Wichita you have the KU game, and the 8/9 game. But there is also Michigan/Montana, and Houston/SDSU from the West.

So we play a team that is worse than any team we’ve played since December in the first round. All we need is three “real” wins to reach the FF, and we’ll be a solid favorites in at least two of those. Not that daunting.

@cragarhawk Right on point.

@mayjay I think your theories on first basemen fall in line with what one would optimally prefer, much like the NFL combine. You speak of the ideal 1Bs that everyone would prefer. But many of the greatest 1B of all time don’t fit the combine mentality — Gehrig, Killebrew, Palmeiro, Foxx, Carew. And my discussion of Moose at first was assuming Hosmer was not availabile.

@mayjay Did you see Rustin Dodd reporting that Yost is going to look at Moose at first to help with getting Cuthbert time (and increasing Moose’s value)?

@Bwag And what a group of whiners. Huggins is raising his arms, complaining about nearly everything. Just very Weber-like.

When times get tough, it is wise to consider things in an historical perspective.

To quote John Blutarsky, "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

Over course not. As Rambo said, "Nothing is over."

Some tidbits.

-Did you know that sometimes, necessity really is the mother of invention?

-Did you know that Silvio DeSousa bests Doke in rebounds per 40 minutes played by nearly two boards? That he has .5 more assists per 40 minutes? That he shoots free throws twice as good as Doke? And that his scoring rate per 40 minutes is only three less than Doke (19 vs. 22)?

-Did you know that sometimes, the best team on paper doesn't actually win the national title?

-Did you know that folks really were concerned when Drew Bledsoe got hurt, and late round pick had to take his place in the Patriot's lineup?

-Did you know that a grade one MCL sprain can heal very quickly, but two weeks is probably sufficient?

-Did you know that Doke doesn't rely on sharp moves and quick cuts to score offensively?

-Did you know that we still have the best collection of perimeter players in the nation?

-Did you know that a guy named Conner Teahan hit the biggest shot of his life in the NCAA tournament?

-Did you know that folks that have suffered spinal cord injuries have walked again?

-Did you know that Marcus Garrett is beginning to play like a sophomore, and that a five guard lineup might be un-guardable?

-Did you know that undersized, quick teams can play zone defense, can trap, and can employ a full court press?

-Did you know that Nick Foles just won the Super Bowl?

-Did you know that Clint Normore will never be forgotten?

-Did you know that we are "the hot shooting team" that others fear?

-Did you know that "backs against the wall" is a phrase that is used for a reason?

-Did you know that this was the year we lost the Big 12?

-Did you know that Bill Self is kind of a good coach? Like, kind of HOF?

-Did you know that every so often, destiny can be on your side?

-Did you know that Doke, or no Doke, we ARE Kansas?

This season is not over. Nothing is over.

@benshawks08 You do realize that they are paying them fair market value right now, right?

Unfortunately your suggestion would destroy CBB. You’re suggesting changing NCAA rules to makes CBB professionals.

I am obviously a huge CBB fan. I can't stand the NBA. But I am a free market guy.

If the NBA presents an alternative, then good for them. If kids can come out of high school and make a living, great. And if they bypass college, fine with me.

What I don't like are folks trying to change the college game because they want players paid a part of the profits. That's not the college game.

That of course could evolve with competition. But I would view that as a more natural, free market change. The NCAA reacting to the market vs. reacting to whiners.

And it all comes back to this -- the players have choice. Play under the NCAA rules, or do something else. That is what I want preserved. It's pure, it's based on the market, and it highlights the many positives that CBB presents. The narrative that kids are "forced" into the CBB is laughable and dishonest.

@BeddieKU23 @Kcmatt7 I have to admit, I need to look at the seeding criteria. You two seem to really be on top of this. And our coach is obviously on top of it.

@BeddieKU23 It seems that the opinion of KU and the quality of the wins again relies on the opinion of the quality of the Big 12. I mean, who did we beat in the non-con? Not one team in the top 25 as far as I can tell. Syracuse, TAM, UK all have had down or disappointing seasons. And we lost to UW and ASU who have slid back. They’re not even getting votes. The inflated value of the Big 12 is puzzling. I think we should slide into the two seed, and that fits our season about right.

Who is this Billy Preston fellow? Something sounds familiar.

Please read this .. will impact your thinking.

https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html ↗

I ask this question, are there two guys that you would like to be the face of Kansas basketball more than either Frank or DG?

Those two are just about as good as it gets.

I think the first OSU loss was a product of what this team was, and I think the last loss was the most predictable letdown game we could have seen. Hope we get them in the Big 12 tourney. That’s means they beat OU and the idea of OU possibly missing the tourney is very enjoyable.

I saw the Marshall thing live and it looked horrible. I knew he’d be upset after the last play — which was CF taking a guarded 3 when they just needed a two. But that reaction, regardless of what was said, looked completely unprofessional.

What @kjayhawks said. In total.

@jayballer73 I just feel it coming ...

@Texas-Hawk-10 The main difference I see there is the passage of time without renewal of the rivalry. But you never know what the tourney folks are thinking.

@JayHawkFanToo Serious question, does the Big 12 have a team consistently better than Xavier? I don’t think so. Always wins 20, has made the NCAA tourney all but two seasons since 2004, has 7 Sweet 16s since 2004, and has more Elite Eight appearances (3) than any Big 12 team not named Kansas during the Bill Self era (since 2004).