I am perplexed how we have no ability to get a decent three point shot.
HighEliteMajor
5416 posts
@Buster-1926 I’ve cleaned out a few salty things too.
I’ve cleaned out a lot of cookies in my day.
"But if it be a sin to covet honour, I am the most offending soul alive."
Here ... we ... go.
I'll take my chances on a chip. Sign me up for a Monday date with that old nun!
@LSH You know, the one thing about Doke that is really under appreciated is his ability to pass out of double teams, and just his passing ability in general. If I were coaching against Doke, I'd be very careful on guys sliding down the lanes. Back when SDSU beat us at home a few years ago, our lack of "attacking" those doubles with guys moving down the lane was pretty much the reason we lost (our inability to beat those traps). Some coaches talk about clustering or tightening on the trap, which would expose the three point line. If I'm Self, I'd anticipate that Wright might cluster the lane because Doke is a very good passer in that tight space, and work with Doke on perhaps hitting a guy that stays back near the line (something Doke rarely does). You can bait a guy to compress to the lane, and then kick back out or bait him with another cutter going across his face. That creates the chess game, and I'm sure Wright will be considering all of this too.
Great thing to watch for on Saturday.
@Eric-san Yes, but remember, Nova's three point shooting was worse. We got beat because Nova had the better game plan, shutting down Ellis. We did not respond with a counter to get Ellis into the game. And the reason Nova's plan worked, a scab that gets picked every so often, is because Lucas was no real threat to score. That year, we could have had Diallo prepped and ready to play. But that's old news. This year, we DO have Doke and Silvio (who was made game ready in about 60 days -- another challenge to Diallo handling). Big, big difference this season. And that goes to @joeloveshawks' point. We have lots more time to prep. I think -- in fact I'm sure -- Jay Wright worked hard on a KU game plan well before the Sweet16/Elite 8 weekend in 2016.
@Buster-1926 I am very confident. I was very confident when Doke went down because Silvio is a stud and when there is adversity, guys like Silvio step up. Opportunity and need are very inspirational. He fits this team very nicely.
This is the moment we've discussed that changes everything as far as perception for coach Self. A great coach that we know only needs this simple verification of his place among the elite. A second national title is the end of any discussion.
We are ready to win the national title.
We have all week to prepare for Villanova. The best team advances.
Kansas 79
Villanova 72
Monday is coming.
32 total Big 12 players had a GPA over 3.00. College must be really hard.
What? How can a kid actually NOT go to college? How can a kid actually make a choice different than college? Here I thought these kids were indentured servants, forced to go to college by the evil NCAA?
I'm stumped.
Man, Grimes and Dotson sure look a lot alike. Kinda weird, really, how similar they look facially. McCormack is big dude. Imagine he and Doke roughin' guys up.
Oddly, I tend to lean Langford, though I might think differently tomorrow. Just a little underwhelmed with Vick. But I just don't know. And I think I doubt Vick being any sort of leader. That may be the real question for next season, with all that talent, where is the team leader? Where is a grad transfer like Tarik Black when you need it -- character-wise and leadership-wise.
@JayHawkFanToo @drgnslayr It appears to me on the hooking, guys usually slide by if they use just the upper arm and don't create significant contact. When the lower arm/hand are involved, it's an easy whistle. Now, Doke did get called a few games back for just the upper arm, but he really shook the defender with the impact. I think the hooking is just a focal point for refs with Doke. They're looking for it with him.
Against Duke, the hooking was a bad call. It was hooking to be sure, but it should have been called a travel. Replay showed a clear travel if you look at it.
@Blown Against Nova, Silvio might be just as effective, but in a different way. I don't fear Doke being on the bench for stretches. He will be. Bank on it. So Silvo better buckle it up.
@wissox Excellent post. I do like that thought, that a win Saturday might burst the dam over the next few seasons. So let's win Saturday. And great follow-up @approxinfinity. -- "the present is right here within our grasp." It absolutely is. It's why FFs are important. Now, it's a two game tourney. And it's the only tourney that permits you to win a national championship. The 64 team tourney is brilliant. An incredible, topsy-turvy ride that tests the mettle and character of all participants, and determines a true champion. It is there, right in front of us.
Kcmatt7 said:
Truth is, whoever mans up wins this game. Whatever one team does to counter in this game, the other can do something to make them pay. Whoever wants it more for 40 minutes ends up on top. Rarely will you see a game where teams match-up so well pound for pound, while playing the same style. Comes down to each guy winning their individual matchup.
- DG vs Brunson - Naismith POY matchup, will be fun to watch.
- Newman vs Bridges - Who can hold who to less points? Or rather, who can score those points most efficiently.
- Vick vs Booth- Who will put their stamp on the game more? Can Vick put up 15 points and make Booth disappear? Or do we see B12 Vick and Booth ends up being the Nova savior?
- Svi vs. Paschall - Can Svi rebound two games in a row? Can Svi make them pay for putting Paschall on a perimeter player?
- Doke vs. Spellman - Can Spellman shoot well enough to force us to put a guard and double-team him? Can he pass well enough out of a Double-team? Can he guard Doke?
- Garrett vs. DiVincenzo - Who will be the more impactful sub? Can Garrett force a couple of turnovers? Or will DiVincenzo have a field day from the arc?
I'm pumped to watch each of these small battles within the larger game.
And Silvio wins us the game ...
It is nice that we aren't making t-shirts right now.
@jaybate-1.0 And to your point, a reason I think we are now better than last season's team, and why we succeeded to get to the final four, is that we have an inside offensive game. One that demands respect. Last season, how threatening was Lucas? He just wasn't. Good rebounder, but the opposition was surely hoping he took the shots.
I again call on @stupidmichael. Where are you when we need you?
@jaybate-1-0 You said, "Josh Jackson and Frank Mason are balling for bucks in No Boys Allowed. But they couldn’t get this far."
One observation would be that the single most important event in the 2016-17 season was the injury to Udoka. The difference in offensive talent between Udoka and Lucas is near night and day. Further, we did not have anyone that was playing like Silvio. Last season, we had Landen, and slowly recovering Coleby, and a banished Bragg. The post play for the tourney run is significantly better. Wish Frank and JJ could have been a part of this, too.
Jerrance’s son is 19 yrs old.
@jaybate-1-0 Enjoy this discussion. Thanks for posting. I look to the point in time where perhaps KU turned the corner. They had a hard fought win at home vs. ISU. Shot 34.6 %, 9-26. Then won at home vs. WVU, shooting 31.8%, 7-22. Since then, we've never shot that bad.
After that, we have been a much different team. We've only shot below 40% from 3-pt range three times, 35% at OSU, 7-20; 39.3% vs. KSU in the Big 12 tourney, 11-28; and vs. Duke this past Sunday, 36.1%, 13-36.
Percentages in order from and including the ISU game - 34.6, 31.8, 55.2, 44, 43.8, 35, 40, 39.3, 55.5, 41.2, 42.9, 45.5, and 36.1.
I tend to think that the we have really reached a different level of consistency. I do think we are a different team than earlier in the season, and thus some earlier statistical considerations might be irrelevant. We are different. We have won 15 of 16 games. Not too long ago, we dreaded of such things.
I bet the over.
There is no doubt that this team could shoot 7/25. Bad nights do happen. But I see the risk to be much lower -- very much lower -- that we've previously thought with this team.
But right now, I feel supremely confident that this team is in a different place. And I think a tidy 43% is in the offing -- 10/23.
And I love excising demons -- isn't this run we've had very similar to the 2016 run when we put everything together and had won 17 straight before yacking vs. 'Nova? Time to put that one to rest.
Found this interesting .. no KU NBA prospects to watch at the final four.
Thanks for posting. Also -
Devonte an AP first team All-American.
And so is Brunson.
@JayHawkFanToo You said regarding ESPN - "An ethical media outlet would have looked at the numbers and not the click bait hype to create a fake reality."
I am utterly shocked that anyone would question the ethics of ESPN.
@Blown And what if Preston never would have run into that curb?
So, they are saying KU can't win? Hmmm.
@mayjay Or Jacque passing up the shot in 1997.
@BeddieKU23 Thanks for the scout there .. Svi definitely showed his wares yesterday on the defensive end. I would think we'd trap Spellman here and there, but not always, and certainly not immediately. Might be good guy to catch sporadically on the first bounce.
@StLJhawk Well ... uh ... yea. What you said.
@BShark "It's basketball, not quantum physics." That is beautiful.
But did I tell you I had a thought on spherical standing wave interactions?
@BShark You're right, that was one of my criticisms. And it appears that Self chose the talent over the guy who knows the system better in this instance.
@mayjay My criticism of Self, going back a number of seasons, was that he did not adjust his system to his talent. It seems obvious that I was correct, right? I mean my biggest criticism, the one that took up enumerable type space hear, the one that I wrote multiple threads regarding -- is exactly what he is doing offensively, correct? In fact, I criticized him for trying to fit a square peg in round hole. And Self, the next season, admitted his mistake in doing just that. Here's a link as a small, but a tidy reminder -- /topic/3858
Now, I have a number of other threads related to three point shooting, our (prior) stale offense, Self's need to embrace three point shooting, adjusting to the strengths of the team, the example ofhow Izzo changed, etc. Our constant struggle with the fact that Self would not change offensively. Bill Self was not flexible. Bill Self was not willing to change.
But he did change. And although many of us here caught a never ending barrage of "you think you know more than Self", it is stunningly amazing how things turned out.
Now, to your point -- I think you are right. Bill Self would not have switched to zone if he was coaching Duke's roster, like coach K did. I think he would have demanded better man to man. And I think you have identified a key difference in coach K and Bill Self. It may also be a function of age and current stages of careers. I think 15 years ago coach K might have been more like Self is now.
But what we don't know is if the demand for man to man would have caused Duke to implode, or not. What I do know is that coach K adjusted, used Justice Winslow at the four spot, and won a national title. I do know that coach K has five rings. Coach K and is record speaks for itself and is nearly unassailable. He's probably the one guy, along with Coach Roy, that it's hard to win a debate if you're claiming Self to be a better coach. The records are just too good.
Let's not forget that Duke started four freshmen. That is amazing. That probably played a bit into K's zone decision.
The fact is that the inflexibility, the refusal to adjust, and the demand for perfection within the box of what a great coach prefers is a double edged sword. In the past, I've written about how that inflexibility has made Self great. He knows his way is the right way. But it is also a weakness. Doing it "my way" works, when you are great. But that inflexibility and arrogance of method can be one's downfall. We've seen it all with coach Self. But we are in a different era of "Bill Self", I think we would all agree.
@BShark The Malik story of buying in stands as inspiration to those that might possibly resist.
Nova better buckle up.
@Crimsonorblue22 You were the lead Malik believer. I can tell you I was really worried there for a while. We desperately needed what you had faith in.
@mayjay Almost forgot about Rex. We live in the world of Self I guess. I still have a soft spot for Kevin Young, because we don’t get to the ‘12 FF without him. Malik’s dad trusting Self was the best gift he could give his son. Career changer.
@BShark @Texas-Hawk-10 Right, Withey. Good name for Newman to be associated with. I'll look at the Newman write-up.
@BigBad Newman was guarding Allen much of the time, did do an incredible job. Really worked hard. Buying in is truly defined by Newman this season. We'll talk about that for years to come, and compare others to what he did.
@Bosthawk And saying Newman and "system guy" together, what a compliment to him.
@CR107 Now, about 'Nova and their guards -- our guards are better. Wouldn't want another group to ride right now.
@Bosthawk The Silvio decision, and getting him eligible, saved this season. Period.
Newman the best transfer ever? I'm struggling to come up with another name. This is where Self's management is masterful. Think about where we were two months ago? Have to give Malik complete credit two. Buying in when your basketball DNA is somewhat counter the flow is impressive.
Teams don't reach the Final Four without there being a clear and obvious contribution from the man on the bench.
Tonight, we saw the "A" game.
What the nation saw heading into the game -- what I saw heading into the game -- was a mammoth Duke team inside. Big, after big, after big. Playing a four out, one in team that had as its second big, a kid just 90 days removed from high school. And who had as its first bit a lumbering lug that while very skilled, was quick to tire and an easy mark for silly fouls.
Bill Self scripted an absolutely brilliant game plan defensively.
Quick traps, immediate help, help off the bounce, prioritizing threats, trusting match ups -- you name it. What I find incredibly impressive is off the traps, how well our guys slid into the correct lanes, and how they generally were always in a position with their eyes in the right place. Not an easy task. Our defense put Duke on the defensive much of the night. It appeared that Duke (particularly Bagley) was not fully ready for our aggressiveness. Self had this team ready to play defense against the oversized Blue Devils. Without it, this game would have been over quickly.
One tremendous decision was to put Svi on Bagley -- and to trust Svi. What a terrific game he had. Of course, he hit the big three. But even bigger was the job he did guarding a bigger, more athletic Bagley. A guy who could jump out of gym. But on many occasions, Svi was able to be in the right spot, deny Bagley the ball, and disrupt. That's all Svi had to do was disrupt, and he did it magnificently.
This game was won on the defensive end. And defense like this just doesn't happen. Two months ago, who would have believed that this team, in this moment, would win with defense?
Bill Self took a team he was complaining about being soft, and lacking chemistry (just last month), and created a unit that could coalesce into a monster defensive squad.
Turmoil, uncertainty, criticism, adversity -- this team has suffered this fate more than any KU team in recent memory. But look at the product. Just look at it.
We now have the opportunity for our moment. Our beautiful, ever-lasting moment. Two to go.
And this season, which was Bill Self's greatest coaching job yet, is not over. Not by a long shot. This team has experience, tenacity, and character. And it has a toughness that cannot just be created because a coach says so.
This team has a toughness that was earned. Earned, in part, by the bitter disappointment of the last two seasons. Being on the brink of the what is a life changing accomplishment, only to fall short. Or as the players feel deep inside, only to fail.
Why are we going to San Antonio? It's because of the journey. It's because of Nova in '16 and Oregon in '17. It's because Vick went into a shell. It's because Newman wasn't meshing. It's because Preston was a mirage. It's because Mitch stepped up. It's because of our All-American. It's because Doke got hurt. It's because DeSousa became a man. And it's because this team became a team.
But more than anything, it's because of the boss on the bench. The man on the bench took a team that many thought was rudderless, and steered it through some incredibly stormy seas. He took control. And we are in the Final Four because of it.
So look at us now.
So, Vick has been bad. Start DeSousa and Doke? Might make Duke’s zone get 4 defenders off that three point line a bit.
Fear the refs.
@BShark Right, Loyola was just better, particularly when KSU was missing its best player in Wade. VCU wasn’t near better than KU in 2011. Perhaps the worst loss in Self’s tenure at KU. When a coach chooses Morningstar and Reed over EJ, Releford, and Selby, he deserves his chosen fate. Security over ceiling helps one win the conference. Similar to dispatching top 5 player Diallo to a non-role. Creates more stability in the conference season, but in the tourney, the landscape is different — Villanova should thank Self for their title. That,
and his complete inability to get Ellis into the game and the fact that they were one step ahead all day, even beating us to our own handoff spots.
Just flat outcoached by Jay Wright that day.
Self needs to bring his A game today.
And he didn’t even say thanks for Milton Doyle.
@CRH107 And guards win in March. Book it.
Go Cats. Go Red Raiders. Great for the conference. Which selfishly adds to KU’s accomplishments in winning the league and league tourney.
My dad’s name is Richard (and goes by Dick) and I’ve personally had endless hours juvenile fun with that. We pester him with a nickname of little Dickie; we’ll greet him too loudly as Dick; we’ll mention to a waitress or a store clerk that his real first name is Harold and Richard is really his middle name; we’ve been known to hijack the script of the “i” to create an offensive image every so often; we torment him with a promise that his grave stone will say “Dick in dirt”; and in a highly inappropriate moment, I even asked in a group family
setting that while I know my mom loved him, does she really like Dick. My mom responded quickly “more than you know.” We all then vomited a bit and we moved on.
If my Grandparents would have chosen a different name, where would we have found such joy?
Life is short. Have fun.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
Our coaching staff would have grabbed our players in a celebration and made them get in line. Act like you’ve been there, oh yeah, they haven’t. To me it’s as equally rude for KSU not to hurry up and get in line.
Exactly correct. That's a PHOF if I've seen one.
Where is @stupidmichael when you need him?
Minnesota and Northwestern in the rankings? I seriously don't think that I heard or saw anything about them all season.
@JayHawkFanToo That might have been the best team Roy ever had, KU or UNC.
@JayHawkFanToo Man, you don't like Shaka. It is amazing what a tourney run or two can create for a coach that was a bit middling during the regular season. Incompetent at this level might be a bit strong, but I ain't arguin'.