🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Boy, it is nice to play Rider. Like a turkey heading into Thanksgiving day, KU got to fatten up a bit. The reality is that we can take very little from this game. But here are a few things that stood out to me:

1. Oubre: Seriously, does anyone now think that the start vs. UK was merit related? Come on. We don't want to admit, but Self started him for reasons other than merit. Big stage, ESPN, UK, top recruit, other recruits watching. Anyway, Oubre was completely lost on defense. Didn't rotate twice. He kind of freezes. Didn't fight for the ball. I didn't notice it, but Newell said Self yelled at him a couple of times for being in the wrong spots on offense, too. Greene and Svi both look much better. Any good news there? Maybe we'll have him for two or three years.

2. Selden: I am puzzled by the lack of scoring. Don't get me wrong. I love the 9 assists. But we need him to score. I'm beginning to rethink the Selden at PG thing, but keep having nightmares of the OSU 2-2-1 trap. Selden still look skiddish with the ball. But he delivered the ball. My mind is opening. Mason did not play well again. Graham was out with his shoulder. I just see the PG thing in flux again. Mason has left the door open.

3. Greene: He was the star. His shooting, together with Svi's effort, look like great tonic. Hitting threes will be how we beat Kentucky in March/April. I didn't see Greene screw up on defense, but didn't have the DVR to review. Very happy for the guy. I sure hope that Self sees that Svi and Greene (and hopefully Oubre later) are how we are going to get real scoring -- Ellis will do his deal, but Ellis isn't reliable. I'd rather hitch my wagon to the shooters.

4. Lucas/Traylor: I loved Self's switch up there. Great move. Traylor should not start ... ever. Lucas is a better start, better compliment to Ellis. I think Self saw the Traylor's ceiling Tuesday. The continued reference to the Traylor as being 6'6" should have been a foreshadowing of Self's move to start Lucas. I can now see Traylor slipping to the 4th big. Lucas, and his height, are a better fit. I have a tough time gauging Lucas' defense right now, though.

5. Svi: Self tipped his hand with this start. Svi is his favorite. And that seems squarely based on merit. One awesome sequence where Svi worked hard to get open for the wing pass. Mason delivered it, and Svi immediately flipped it in to Ellis for an easy bucket. Svi plays active defense, busts his ass, is clearly the best at moving the ball. Hand checks a little too much ... may catch the wrong ref sometime. He does need to hit his shots. I would like to see him drive it a few times. On a break, he took a three when he had the chance to drive it. Hard to complain about this guy.

6. Full Court Pressure: This is awesome. But Self has to commit to doing this vs. better teams. Didn't really see it vs. UK. Self's has said before that he thinks good teams prefer being pressed. But Self has also said that his team needs an identity. I think targeted pressure, every game, should be part of that identity.

Of course, the Rider result means nothing. We have a 10 man rotation right now. Mickelson is out. Oubre seems like the next guy out. Svi and Greene are just better now. Although Self has said he wants more ball handling on the floor -- i.e., Mason and Graham together -- that may not be the best choice right now because of Svi's emergence, and Greene's shooting. Hard rotation decisions, for sure. Mason's poor play may make Self's decisions for him. No way to tell right now. The next three games will shape things quite a bit.

@jaybate-1.0 Your answer is correct .. but I'll add another: As an excuse.

The "we're young" mantra can only take you so far.

Let's look at this for a moment .. we lost 72-40. Could it have been worse? Who cares? 92-40, 72-40, what's the difference?

I like this post because it focuses on the only thing that's important -- winning a national title.

The question for coach Self is, "Can we win a national title as constructed?"

Prior to last season's NCAA tourney, my thought was to change our approach slightly, play fast, play small, etc. Would that have made sense in 2012-13? No, it would not have. That is because, as constructed, we had a reasonable shot at the national title as constructed. In 2013-14, with the loss of Embiid and a season of horrific defense, we did not.

That's why I like this post. And that would be my question -- "Can we win a national title as constructed?"

If I am consistent with anything, it is that I value ball handling. It is virtual necessity. But if our point guard play in anyway resembles what we saw Tuesday, or last season from Self, it is a lost cause. Crappy play trumps ball handling.

This is much like last season where we debated zone defense. The fact is, right here at kubuckets.com, we diagnosed our defensive deficiencies by early December. Many advocated a switch to zone. That was clearly the reasonable choice -- one thing we know is that sticking with man was the wrong answer. We know the result, which was the worst defensive team of Self's era.

I wouldn't make a switch now. I would, however, keep my mind open. If a switch was made and Svi or Selden were made the PG, it would have to come with the idea that we have a significant Achilles' heal. The press, the pressure (see OSU's 3/4 court 2-2-1), etc., could lead directly to losses. But we would still have solutions on the bench. And we really don't know how well Svi, for example, could handle the ball in those situations. And we don't know the level of Selden's improvement.

Quite frankly, Mason's regression in the last game is very concerning to me. I did not fathom that he could put together such a horrible performance -- the driving into the trees and throwing up garbage thing. I thought he was past that. That's real concerning.

I'm withholding judgment though. Let's see what the next four games brings us.

A less dramatic solution is suggested by @jaybate-1.0 -- Play "Outside In."

Holy crap! Could it be that simple? Who in the world would think to focus an attack on your strength, to open up your weakness? To adjust based on your personnel?

I know many guys that would do just that. Problem is, I know one guy that wouldn't.

@ralster/@kansascomet I will respectfully and strongly disagree. I have never, ever bought the "let them labor" narrative. I don't believe it's true. I don't believe that it is fathomable. That is tantamount to not doing everything one can do to win. Losses can help. But wins are better. Self knows we're going to lose. We aren't going undefeated. Lessons will be learned. But there is no way he purposefully under prepared, or purposefully put the players in a position to fail. No way he *let them get ambushed." This game meant more than just a win. It was prestige, it was recruiting, it was momentum. It was a national stage. And we got embarrassed. One thing about Self is that he plays to win.

Personally -- and again respectfully -- I think that some of these explanations for the loss are cop outs. Attempts to explain the inexplicable.

Calling a spade a spade -- Bill Self did not have this team prepared for Tuesday night. It was Bill Self and only Bill Self. Let's not try to dress that up. He admitted we weren't prepared.

Brannen Greene said Friday: 'In the (UK) game, we had nothing we knew we could go to. Past teams knew they had something they could go to. They knew if they could throw it into the post, the guy was going to seal."

We had nothing to go to. Whose fault is that? Whose job is it to build in contingencies, and options, and to make adjustments? Whose job is it to be prepared?

Has anyone given consideration to the possibility that coach Cal was impeccably prepared to play against our system? That he game planned? That he adjusted his scheme to kick our ass? That the defensive scheme Cal employed was designed to specifically take advantage of UK's advantages? That Self got out coached?

We saw last season where we were flat not prepared to play against the press and 1-3-1 half court trap at Atlantis (Self specifically admitted to that afterward), and that we were flat not prepared to handle SDSU's post trapping (Self specifically admitted to that afterward) and that we were flat not prepared to attack Stanford's zone in March (Self did not admit to that afterward).

I'll toss this in too ... Kentucky is young. We started two juniors, two sophomores and a freshman.

Usually, Self wins the coaching battle. In 2012, Self's coaching in our tourney run, and much of that season, was masterful. it was the single biggest reason we reached the Final Four. Tuesday, though, was a coaching knockout. UK was much better prepared. No one can argue that.

I pose this question -- given Self's adherence to a system that is regularly understood to be complex, doesn't the embarrassment Tuesday (not the loss) fall squarely on Self's shoulders?

Keep in mind that Self said: "Let's call it like it is; we weren't ready to play that game."

Whose job is it to have the team ready to play?

@wissoxfan83 - I don't see Mickelson being an answer for the simple fact of what has happened to this point. He was in our program, practicing, and learning, for a full season. After that, as a junior, he can't get any minutes vs. UK other than scrub stuff. He has clearly been our #11 guy (out of 11). I can't imagine that there is some magic there. I think he'd be "serviceable." Lucas the same way. "Serviceable." Traylor might have a bit more. But as far as backups, That is all we've got. It is the roster constructed by coach Self.

@wissoxfan83 Great bit of sarcasm ... I bet @JayHawkFanToo doesn't get it.

Note that I have edited my original post.

@Crimsonorblue22 I'm sorry, I said "Stanford" again, didn't I ... dang it!

Had enough of the UK game? Did you think that was the end of the world? Well, not really. The Recruiting Apocalypse may be upon us. These sort of things come a bit without warning.

But the Roster Apocalypse, while not likely, and not worth betting on, is clearly a risk. The possible KU roster apocalypse is squarely rooted in the OAD era, and the OAD path that coach Self has chosen. It is fraught with risk.

I first start with recent history that has little to do with OAD issues -- our 2011-12 roster. But it is similar. Players turning pro, and recruiting misses. Odd, but the resulting carnage was a Final Four team. It was a near roster apocalypse. The only thing that saved us was health. Following the 2011 loss to VCU, we lost Selby and the Morris twins. Gone from the roster, as well, were Reed and Morningstar. But the key losses were Selby and the Morris twins. The players that left early. Self stated that the Morris twins turning pro surprised him. Maybe. But what was clear was that we had no big men to fill their spots. We has no recruiting haul waiting to fill the void. Then, as we headed into 2011-12, McLemore was deemed ineligible as was Traylor. Braeden Anderson did not pan out. Our 2011-12 roster was literally saved by Kevin Young -- starting 5 of TT, EJ, Releford, TRob, and Withey. Bench KY and walk-on Teahan. Next, Justin Wesley. That is as near to a roster apocalypse as we've had.

Let's move now to 2014. We stand on the verge of the apocalypse once more. Again, not likely. But possible. Here are the Seven Signs Of The Roster Apocalypse. We have seen the first two signs:

1. As we stand, we have no commits or LOIs in hand. None. No talent staged to replenish the roster. Zero. First Sign of the Apocalypse: No November Signings.

2. In the spring, Andrew White left. Within days, we added Svi Mykialiuk. At the time, I expressed concerns that his roster presence could cause another casualty. I focused on Brannen Greene. But now we see that at least in part, Svi helped nudge Conner Frankamp. Regardless, Frankamp is gone. Second Sign of the Apocalypse: Conner Frankamp Transfers.

3. Related to Svi's signing is a speculative issue with Svi himself. My biggest concern was that as a foreign player, the possibility of being homesick, or something related to the distance from his home, could pull him back -- particularly if he didn't play much. I also mentioned that if he did well, the pull of getting paid in Europe or elsewhere could lead him to leave after one season. Third Sign of the Apocalypse: Svi Goes Back to Europe After 2014-15.

4. Is Svi the devil? Svi is again the trigger for the next sign. Because Svi is such a stud, Self plays him. Brannen Greene again sits. He's stuck behind behind Svi, Selden, Oubre, et. al., once again. Concerned that he might never get playing time, he follows Andrew White's lead and transfers. Even though Svi has already announced that he's gone, Greene doesn't trust Self. He's trying to bag Jaylen Brown. He Likes playing small with Mason and Graham. He's not sure if Oubre is returning. He's wasted two years and he's done. Fourth Sign of the Apocalypse: Brannen Greene Transfers.

5. Self has gone "all in" on the top ranked guys who are all waiting to sign until May. But commitments began to trickle in during April. None have chosen Kansas. Oubre had a so-so season, and that affects some of the perimeter guys who question Self's handling of Oubre. Alexander had a great season, but KU returns 4 post guys, all upperclassmen. Meanwhile, six UK guys turn pro, leaving multiple roster spots on a team that just won the national title with a platoon system. UK grabs three more guys in the late period, all guys who were considering Kansas. Nothing is in the bag. Is it possible that none of the top guys choose Kansas? It is possible. In fact, many recruiting experts don't see us as the leader with any of our final prospects. So it's possible. Fifth Sign of the Apocalypse: We Miss On The Top Guys.

6. When we signed Kelly Oubre and Cliff Alexander, we assumed they were OADs. We were hopeful that they weren't, but all mock drafts rave about their talent. Oubre is the most likely to stay as his playing time an role have been ever changing. But in the spring, both are still projected lottery guys. They can't turn down the money. Sixth Sign of the Apocalypse: Oubre and Alexander Turn Pro.

7. We have lost Frankamp, Svi, Greene, Oubre, and Alexander. Compete roster carnage. We have no big recruits in the bank. Our roster is now Mason, Graham, Selden, Ellis, Lucas, Traylor, and Mickelson. It could be worse, right? Well, it just got worse. Selden, though not a sure first round pick, he's highly likely to go there and decides to go pro. He's projected in the 20s and thinks a guaranteed first round contract is worth it. Seventh Sign of the Apocalypse: Wayne Selden Turns Pro.

The seven signs converge, and the Jayhawks' roster for 2015-16 -- a season many projected as a national championship season -- just broke horribly wrong. The Apocalypse has occurred. Mason, Graham, Ellis, Lucas, Traylor and Mickelson. That's it.

Likely? No. Something to really worry about? Probably not. Possible? Maybe.

Fast-forward to 2015-16. KU rebuilds after the apocalypse. Self brings in a late Juco transfer to play the three spot, and then snags an unsigned, unranked perimeter guy. We go with 8 scholarship players. Somehow, someway, we win the conference. Then, in March, the Jayhawks make an unlikely run to the final four, losing in the semis to, who else -- Kentucky.

Self wins national coach of the year, and simply says that this version of the Jayhawks achieved so much, with so little, because "they ran the system."

Somewhere, deep in the bowels of the kusports.com site, a random, anonymous poster proclaims, "Self is God." No one argues.

@Kong Welcome to the group. Thanks for the post.

The lack of value placed on the three point shot is something that I've always taken issue with during Self's tenure.

Easy math -- 40% from three equals 60% from two. The reason Self runs things through the post is because making 60% inside is generally easier than making 40% from three (at least after years of listening to him, I'm making that leap of faith).

My main issue is that you can have both, and you can scheme for both; and neither will devalue the other.

There are times when you can't get points inside. Self does have a terrific record. But too many times a season is defined by that one game that doesn't go as planned.

Stanford was one.

The UK game does not define our season. It is now pretty much irrelevant. What I have always desired is for coach Self to be flexible and recognize that his system, while great 95% of time, needs to be flexible enough to adjust when necessary.

Just value, cultivate and game plan for the three point shooter.

@justanotherfan On your Myth #3, I offer the following evidence as to why could have been OAD related pressure:

1. Self said that certain players were having trouble with where to be on the floor, and what to do. He said it was hard to run things if people weren't in the right spots; i.e., learning the system.

2. Svi was on the floor, playing; so was Graham. That excludes those two. Easy inference was Oubre and Alexander.

3. The loose discussion around Oubre's commitment that he was told that he would come in and take Wiggins' spot -- loose meaning not a guarantee, per se.

4. Oubre played only 4 minutes vs. UCSB. More importantly, he played zero minutes in the second half with the game on the line, and indicator of who Self really trusted.

5. There were only two real practice days between UCSB and UK to change the dynamic. That is, what can change so dramatically -- zero minutes in crunch time to starting -- in a couple of days?

6. This was a national game, recruits all over the nation watching. Zimmerman, Brown, you name it. How would it look to those recruits if their OAD brethren barely plays? could that happen to them?

7. The pregame video montage had significant shots of Oubre with the other starters. Clearly filmed with Oubre starting in mind. Self didn't announce the starters until very close to game time. ESPN had to know way ahead of time about Oubre. to edit and prepare the montage.

8. It would have been embarrassing to Oubre to be so prominently focused upon in the montage, and not start or play much.

9. Self only ended up playing this supposed "merit" starter 13 minutes the entire game. If he merited starting, then why not play most of the second half.

10. When Oubre got his second foul, Self did not take him out. When has Self ever not removed a key player with two fouls like that? It shows me Self didn't care if he got his third.

11. No reporter quizzed Self on the reasons for starting Oubre. Those guys know something and don't want to piss off Self. None of them ever ask him tough or challenging questions on follow-up. They just accept answers and move on.

I admit my evidence is not iron clad. Heck, Alexander didn't start. I'm not even sure I believe it. I actually hope, if Oubre is the real deal, and Self feels that way, that Self should just start him then.

But this is just to suggest that maybe, just maybe, it's not purely a myth.

@globaljaybird - If Graham starts, doesn't that prove the point on Oubre? That it was a sell-out start? Heck, nobody asked Self about it post-game that I heard. Unbelievable -- both that it happened, and that no one asked him.

@bskeet - Just a terrific point on recruiting. Just because you get one, doesn't mean you can't necessarily get another. It's all how it's sold.

@drgnslayr - The layup that Ellis got blocked on, we could see coming before it happened. You're exactly right. You have to position yourself to dunk the ball. When that happens, you'll get the foul call more times than not. Flipping up a soft layup is easy pickins. If you have to lay it in, have some court awareness. Take it to the other side of the rim. I know it's not that easy, but we see guys do it all the time.

But Ellis is Ellis. He is a finesse player. It's who he is. His game won't change. He'll likely have an excellent season, at least when he doesn't have to face a size or skill disadvantage. That may be 90% if the season.

For those interested, Jesse Newell did a great piece today on three point shooting and the quotes I referenced above.

http://cjonline.com/blog-post/jesse-newell/2014-11-19/kureview-definition-insanity ↗

@icthawkfan316 I saw Cauley-Stein in H.S. too, and he was a lazy underachiever. I think you and I have posted about that before. A 6'7" kid I used to coach (in baseball), D-III basketball guy, basically controlled him. But here's what I'll say -- Self's job, like Calipari's is to identify talent and develop it. I didn't want Cauley-Stein at the time. So this is a hindsight criticism. On Embiid, he wasn't that much of a secret. Pitino said prior to his commitment that we might have the top two picks.

My observation was really that Self was giving a lame explanation on Cauley-Stein, at least in part relating that miss to the positive of getting Embiid; which does us zero good right now. I'd rather have had Cauley-Stein than Embiid, in hindsight of course.

@Hawk8086 - It is odd that we had that exact discussion. I never once imagined that Oubre would start. I'm still shaking my head at that one. Think Oubre starts Monday? Actually, I hope so.

@drgnslayr - Thanks for the nice comments .. no don't get down on things. This is college hoops. It's a team game, and it's chemistry. This thing isn't over. Cal is an excellent coach, something he doesn't get credit for. It's a long season.

@jayhawkfantoo: I'm sorry, I'm not understanding. I was not suggesting that Self doesn't game plan. I was just suggesting that his statement that there's not a "game plan" is silly. Maybe we're saying the same thing.

You said "The drive to pass was exactly part of the plan that you indicate he did not have, and while the concept was good, in practice the guards kept driving and trying to shoot over the trees and obviously it did not end up well; 4 assist total is an indication of a team not passing the ball."

I AM saying that his strategy/game plan WAS to drive and pass. I quoted him saying that.

Now, you say it didn't work good in practice. It didn't work good in practice because the guards shot, instead of passed.

You say, "The comment in question was made in reference to reporters asking him repeatedly before the game if he was going to change his plan, and he always indicated that KU has a plan and will stick to it and will not change for just one team. In other words, you do what you have done before, and that by and large, has worked rather well before."

Again, really, it's nuance. I agree that you stick with your system, but you have to game plan within the system. Self wanted more driving and dishing. Perfect. It's a good plan to combat a team like Kentucky. I said that last week. But he (apparently) had no real three point strategy. I think that's coaching malpractice, to be honest, given what was in front of him (again, if true).

@joeloveshawks I think the three point shooting talk, like playing a perimeter guy at the 4, was all talk. System, system, system. No major deviations. I will say though, I didn't see quick hooks after three pointers. He seems to have give Svi the green light as @Crimsonorblue22 said.

@KUSteve -- looked like TT for the first three and a half years he was here, and the NC title game.

@DCHawker - Welcome to site. Appreciate your input.

I paused, and took a deep breath last night. @VailHawk has kindly prompted me. A few thoughts here -

1. Point Guard Play: Mason was horrific. I am completely disappointed in his approach. This was even worse than the Florida game last season.

2. Drive and Dish: This is a big one. I said the following before the UK game - "They have to drive the basketball. Must drive it. But they have to dish off the drive and create easy baskets. For my money, this is a key to any game. But against UK's bigger guards, slashing will be a priority. And against UK's size inside, we need to find a way to score easily. We need to avoid the TT specials ... and some of what we've seen from Mason. Have a plan, and the plan isn't necessarily to score as the first option. Selden and Svi getting to the rack, and looking to create should come in large doses would be a nice add. Both can do it. I seriously doubt that "feed the post" will win the day Tuesday."

3. Game Plan I: Self said this after the game: "Our whole deal early on was drive to pass. And we didn't; we drove to shoot." Mason destroyed our chances last night. His poor play, his ill advised driving and shooting, led directly to the annihilation we saw. It was the approach -- driving to shoot, not driving to pass. But that raises a big question in my mind, what is the penalty for not following the game plan? I think this is as simple as correcting a child. Punishment. You don't do it my way, you don't play. I'm a Mason fan, but last night, he lost me. That performance was ridiculously bad. It was everything a point guard shouldn't be. He did handle the ball well. But he had zero assists. This can't be permitted to continue. It is as simple as that. It's Self's job to fix it.

4. Game Plan II: Hold onto your hat here. Self said after the game that "We were just so uncharacteristic. We never through it inside. Never." Ok, perhaps I'm the one that is delusional. But didn't we get the ball inside a number of times? We saw Ellis and Traylor play to their limited levels of play against taller players. They can't score against bigger guys. Am I missing something? Does Self really think that getting the ball inside would have done anything? We couldn't get a shot off. Now, what he didn't say was to get the ball in, to kick it out for the three ... then I would be buying it.

5. Game Plan III: The quote in paragraph 2 above regarding driving to pass -- it was preceded by this comment by Self when asked about his "game plan": "This game plan crap that everybody talks about; this isn't football. We play to our strengths, and you don't change offenses because the other team is tall. Our whole deal early on was drive to pass. And we didn't; we drove to shoot." Note to Self -- That is a game plan. Planning to drive early to pass, that's an element of a game plan. And no, no one is suggesting "changing offenses" as being a game plan. But adjustments are a game plan. That comment was just nonsensical. The premise is nonsensical. What is it that you do to prepare for a game? You game plan. One of the things we mentioned that was necessary was trapping on the block and short corner. Self did that last night. That's part of a game plan.

6. Three Point Shooting: It was quite clear that we did not "game plan" to get open looks from three. There were a just a couple of times where we look like we were even trying to get that shot, one was when Greene got the bogus foul call before Svi hit the three that didn't count. But as was plain for the world to see, we don't value three point shots. Message to the college basketball world ... ssshhhh ... it's a secret .... you're going to have to hit a lot of threes to be UK. And more than the 8 I suggested we needed before the game.

7. Ellis: I am worried. Our junior post player played all of 21 minutes, 4 points, 1-6 shooting. Nothing. This was a concern heading in. We haven't seen him function well against taller, bigger guys. Actually, we haven't seen him function at all in those situations. He's not more aggressive, and he's still very poor on defense.

8. Traylor: I am not worried. He played exactly to his expectations and skill level. This is all he can do. Non-top 100 recruit. Should only be a back up on any Kansas team. Not .. repeat .. Not .. 26 minutes. But Self had little choice, with Ellis' non-performance. Self is stuck.

9. Willie Cauley-Stein: Cauley-Stein's mom said she didn't understand why Self didn't recruit him harder. Self said, well, if we got Cauly-Stein we would not have gotten Embiid. Interesting. Because we have neither one right now.

10. Greene: Did anyone realize that Greene played fewer minutes than Evan Manning? Greene played 5 minutes. Self sure has confidence in the young man. Transfer watch begins .... now..

11. Oubre Starting: My first reaction was that it was a ridiculous. Self plainly was pandering to his potential OAD talent, on a big stage. Then I saw the intro where Oubre was featured ... my guess is that feature was made a while back. The OAD hype for ESPN prime time game. Playing to the Zimmermans and Browns of the world. Self, for whatever reason, felt compelled to start Oubre. The same guy that played 4 minutes vs. UCSB and none of those in the second half. The same guy that when he got his second fould early, Self didn't take him out for a while -- when has Self ever done that with a guy he actually felt was necessary to win a game? The discussion was had regarding pressure to play Oubre due to his recruiting status. This has OAD stench all over it. That said, Oubre did look good for stretches. If he's the starter, by golly, then start him Monday. And all next week. That's how he'll get better.

12. Not The End Of The World: Ok, let's assume we can't beat Kentucky. Someone else will have to beat them if we are to win the national title. That's certainly possible. They are obviously beatable, and I wouldn't bet against us later in the year. But last night is over. We just have to get better. Pretty basic. That's all we can do now. Lots of season to play. No choice. This was ugly and embarrassing. But it's history now.

And we have to wait all the way until next Monday for a game. But it's good to be a Jayhawk. Don't forget that. We wouldn't trade places with anyone, anywhere. It's easy to be negative after a loss like this, all looks lost. But it's not. We know it's not.

Very funny, given this thread. But initial word is that Oubre is starting. Self is learning from Cal, apparently (if true). Can't get on the court vs. UCSB, but now starting? Wow.

@JayHawkFanToo Cal said they stuck with it, and Towns didn't play because foul trouble. I just skimmed the game. But I'll believe you. Tonight will be an interesting test.

The point on blocking out by @KirkIsMyHinrich and @drgnslayr is excellent. A fundamental key when playing a big team. One small coaching point, watch how they block out based on the length of the shot. If it's a three, or a deep two, and one of UK's post guys is within 5 feet, see if our guys reverse and try to box them under the basket. With big guys that can reach over more easily, or with guys who really try to push in for position, it's a pretty effective technique. Refs, though, will make some bad foul calls if they see a guy getting boxed toward the goal, even if it is butt to butt.

The most interesting thing to me is the rotation tonight, as @KansasComet brought up last week. I could see a scenario where Self goes really tight, or a scenario where he goes the other way and everyone plays. The way things go, you never know, we could have foul trouble and Mickelson could be the star.

Will he feel the need to give Oubre time even if he hasn't technically earned it, which only 4 minutes vs. UCSB would indicate? I'm very curious on the minutes division between Greene and Svi. And I wonder if Self will feel the need to play bigger when the Harrisons are in at guard, or if he'll stick with his smaller guard preference. I'd really try to stick with the smaller game plan as @DinarHawk mentioned.

I guess the thing I'm most interested in is if Ellis can score vs. the bigger players.

@jaybate-1.0 Coaches don't do it because they don't want to be player centric. They want to be the boss. They can win without kissing ass more than they already kiss ass in recruiting.

You asked .. "Why isn't Kevin Ollie copying the model? He has a more recent ring than Cal." It's because his goal is not to have 9 or 10 McDonalds AA. Heck, I wouldn't want that at Kansas. Ollie's goal is to have the best team, and win a national title. I"ll be shocked if this works at UK ... and "works" means a national title.

@drgnslayr I agree completely on Oubre .. "a bit more breathing room." He is just a freshman -- damn OAD baggage. Let's make him a two year player, and an All-American next season. Mason/Graham at the point, Svi, Oubre, Ellis, Zimmerman, with Bragg, Greene, and Mason/Graham off the bench. National title. Heck, he was named to the Wooden watch list today. We'll be watching. Heck, we might see him sooner than we think.

@ParisHawk You said, "Too bad we can't be there to say "Look at Embiid. Developed so fast he was taken 3d in the draft with known back problems and an injured foot." No, no .. I bet Self says that quite a bit. I bet he points to guys like TRob, the Morrises, Withey, McLemore, etc. that developed and got drafted. Non-OAD guys that developed over at least a couple of years in the program.

@jaybate-1.0 Your question, "What action, or combination of actions, that Self, Coach K, Rick Pitino, and Tom Izzo are not taking, that Cal is taking allows Cal to have 10 Mickey Ds and not them?"

I'll give you a perfect example -- Kelly Oubre. Top 10ish player, McDonalds AA. If he were at Kentucky, he'd be playing the same 15-20 minutes as the 10 guys they have running the platoon right now. Cal's system is player-centric. It's much easier by all accounts.

Further, there is a perception that UK and Cal get kids ready for the NBA at a better clip than other colleges. This may just be a result of more NBA type guys going there, but it is perception.

A scout last spring mentioned how Self's system held Wiggins back, because he had to play his spot.

To be honest, I love that Kentucky can be public enemy #1.

You've seen guys transition to the OAD model. Self is hot and heavy with it .. look at our (non) recruiting class. Talk about going "all in." And coach K, who just recently wouldn't take OAD guys, has embraced it. But Cal is the king. He's a pure players' coach.

If Oubre languishes, that will be fodder for his recruiting competition. Self is going to be under some huge pressure to play Oubre as we progress, ready or not. Heck, Cal can already say to recruits .. "Look, I know your talent. I let you play. Self, well, you have to fit his system. Look at his transfers. Look at Oubre. He played 4 minutes in the season opener and he's in the top 10 in the 2015 mock draft."

@KansasComet @drgnslayr -- you're both right. We haven't seen this type of aggressiveness on defense for quite some time. That slow footed rim protector can be a detriment when you have to cover for others with rotation. I have said for quite sometime that I prefer playing with two 4s vs. a pure 5 -- 4 and 4a. Don't get me wrong, I liked Withey and Embiid. But I'd rather have Jackson/Arthur and all of the options that type of pairing presents one both ends of the court. A bigger bonus is Self might actually get away from the "feed the post" mentality at least 25% of the time. .

@icthawkfan316 Welcome back .. so you are actually going to participate now? We can count on you?

You mentioned Mason. Did you see how some of the guys we missed on did? Look at Cat Barber's line from the other night. Awesome. Kasey Hill not so much. Chris Jones and Demetrius Jackson, pretty good.

Give Mason 10 games. See where he sits. If he isn't the answer, Graham certainly appears to be the real deal. He could settle into the role. If Mason isn't the answer, then Svi might displace Mason as a starter later. But I agree completely on the score first thing. We need drive, dish, create .. then take the bucket if it's available.

Just got done skimming a recording of the UK game from today. Amazing how their first half today looked a lot like our first half Friday. Tyler Ulis made some big shots when Uk couldn't get anything going. We talk about UK's size ... Ulis is really small. Mason seems much bigger. I don't fear that team. Take KU and the points.

If you didn't get to watch Kentucky beat Grand Canyon, you should try to find the game. Guys, Kentucky is beatable. Preseason hype means nothing. The better prepared team will win Tuesday. There is not a significant talent difference between KU and UK. We're both "young." But we're both talented.

Here's my humble suggestion on how to beat Kentucky:

1. Mental: Play the disrespect card. It might be tempting to play the David vs. Goliath card, but they ain't Goliath, and we certainly aren't David. Much better to suggest national disrespect. This is easy. UK is the most hyped team in recent memory. We're pretty much under the radar.

2. Push the Pace: This game is important mentally moving forward. We should play to our identity. This season, with our personnel, that is faster. Defense is the biggest part of that. Be active in our pressure and our trapping. Play the same type of defense. Don't back off, don't limit risk. Self said after the game Friday that he'd rather play UK in the 60s or 70s, vs. 80s or 90s. That's fine. But we should not try to limit possessions in the game, or work the shot clock. Self talks about his teams having an identity. Don't change our identity because it's UK. We not Texas Tech hosting Kansas, we're Kansas. Play our game. Self will have the urge to be less risky against better talent. Again, play our game.

3. Rotation: The rotation you saw in the second half against UCSB should be the model. And really, if some guys don't play a single minute, that's fine. Go with your best players. Right now, that's Mason, Graham, Selden, Svi, Ellis, Cliff, and Traylor. Minor minutes for Greene and Lucas, or as needed. If situationally, though, Greene seems the better match, go with it. That would apply to Mickelson. Regardless, go with the best guys.

4. Ellis: If Ellis is struggling getting his shot up, sit him. Not to be harsh, but if Ellis isn't scoring, we have at least three better options, maybe four. Traylor could end up being a better option paired with Alexander. We need Ellis to score. If he can't, go plan B.

5. Selden: Go to Selden and tell him that this is his stage. Set him up with scoring opportunities. Look, if Selden isn't active, this will be a season more similar to last season, than to most of our other seasons. I think Selden dropping 18 and being our main scorer is an absolute must in winning this game. Scheme to get Selden active. But if Selden disappears, Self has to look somewhere else in the second half. We can't afford a disappearing act. We can run with Mason, Graham, and Svi on the perimeter if we need to. But I think we all know that Selden being "the man" is an important element to this season.

6. Different Wrinkle on Defense: Find something to add on defense. The most obvious is the trap on the block or short corner. Didn't see that in the first three games. It may be strategic necessity given the height advantage UK holds. I've cited the SDSU example from last season. Really, that model is a great model for KU vs. UK this season. Finally, zone. Yes, zone. Just as a surprise. Perhaps four or five possessions. Maybe coming out of a timeout when UK might have a play called, just to throw them off rhythm. It can allow you to win a few possessions.

7. Three Point Shooting: Somehow, we have to win in this phase of the game. As @JayHawkFanToo cited yesterday, UK shot horribly vs. Grand Canyon. Perhaps we encourage UK to shoot, concede some looks from three. Maybe it's a gamble worth taking. Long rebounds are a byproduct, and can negate size advantages. Then, our gamble is that we have to take more threes. I haven't seen any evidence of the quick hook yet from Self. If threes don't go in, sure, that's not helpful. But this seems to be a critical element. From a rotation standpoint, we need to see if Svi can get it going. If he doesn't, try Greene. Then go back to Svi. But to win, it just can't be one guy. Enter Perry Ellis. Perhaps he can stretch and get outside and drain a few. We need to make 7 or 8 threes, maybe 8 of 16.

8. Mason/Graham: They have to drive the basketball. Must drive it. But they have to dish off the drive and create easy baskets. For my money, this is a key to any game. But against UK's bigger guards, slashing will be a priority. And against UK's size inside, we need to find a way to score easily. We need to avoid the TT specials ... and some of what we've seen from Mason. Have a plan, and the plan isn't necessarily to score as the first option. Selden and Svi getting to the rack, and looking to create should come in large doses would be a nice add. Both can do it. I seriously doubt that "feed the post" will win the day Tuesday.

9. Play Our Small Guards: This could be the best opportunity to use a perimeter guy at the 4 spot. But I don't think Self will do that. However, going with Graham and Mason together, for a large chunk of the game, may be our best bet. Start both with Selden. We gawk at the size of UK's guards, many think the best answer is the match. I think it's the opposite .. go small at the guard spots. Like Louisville in 2013, and UConn last season. Small guards create difficulties for bigger teams.

10. MUAs: Find them, exploit them. If Selden can post up his defender, go to it. Isolate any MUA, take advantage of it until it is gone. This could happen only a handful of times all game.

Let's not forget that we are extremely talented. This is not a mismatch. UK is a bunch of hype right now. Calipari being hamstrung, having to play all of his players, can create great opportunity. I think UK is at a great disadvantage with a bunch of guys expecting to play. I trust that Self will have us in the right mindset to play this game, on this stage.

I'm very interested to hear everyone else's thoughts on beating Kentucky. What are the keys? Where am I missing the boat?

@REHawk I think Oubre's status is dictated by two things. First, Svi is better. Second, and perhaps most importantly, I bet he's not grasping the system right now. Self mentioned that certain guys are behind. He's likely one of them. But how does Oubre surpass our two ball handlers (Mason/Graham), Selden, and Svi? Is his peak the 5th perimeter guy?

@KUSTEVE You're not grumpy. Just scarred. But be patient with Frank. He's intense defensively. He just needs to realize that he's not as much of a scorer as he thinks he is. And he needs to realize that his assists, and driving and dishing, will create more scoring. Heck, TT never really figured that out. TT's shots just started going in.

@jaybate-1.0 I'm not saying we'll beat UK. Obviously, right now, that is not expected. Self said after the game that he'd prefer to play UK in the 60s or the 70s, not the 80s or 90s. Wrong! As wrong as @Crimsonorblue22 praising Oubre's hair. Maybe worse. We need to attack, play fast, challenge UK with our overplays and double teams, increase the pace, take advantage of our lack of size. Play to our strength. I love your military analogies .. don't you liken this more to a blitzkrieg attack through the Ardennes forest? It may be conventional wisdom to plod through central Belgium, or try to play in the 60s. But I would be surprised if this succeeds. If we lose, we lose,but we should play to our identity. Self talks about a team having an identity. This is our identity. Create mistakes. Capitalize on turnovers. Overplay. Trap. I love this stuff. I really liked when Self got on Svi for mishandling that steal last night -- because he tried to one-hand it vs. securing it. Those will be our life blood.

@Hawk8086 I think your Oubre mention is interesting. The political pressure you refer to will increase. Self was a little short in his press conference. A reporter asked "What about Oubre." Self responded with, "What do you mean" -- a little irritated it sounded like. Self knew what he meant, and then after the reporter was specific, Self simply said it was a coach's decision, of course noting that Oubre was "young." Of course, Svi is young. So is Alexander. So was Wiggins. So was Selden. The Oubre dilemma is really a Brannen Greene dilemma, right? Greene starts but is not trusted enough to play in the 2nd half vs. UCSB in a non-con at home? An insight into Self's mind, in my opinion. Oubre will become the 5th perimeter guy. Greene goes to 6th with Svi's emergence. The 6th perimeter guy sits. Why Oubre? Self said post game that some of our most talented players weren't playing -- clear reference to Oubre. And the political pressure. One guy gets left out. Svi is the X-factor. Greene has to change the dynamic and make himself needed. In the OAD world, you're right, the "political" pressure to not leave the possible OAD out will be real. But I really have to hand it to Self in playing the guys to win the game last night. Big win ... or big non-loss.

@KUSTEVE -- You suggest a starting lineup of Graham, Svi, Selden, Ellis, and Alexander. I ask everyone, why is he wrong? Really, it is hard to argue with with @KUSTEVE's starting lineup as being our best five. Are these our best five? @BeddieKU23 suggests that Graham and Cliff shouldn't start "yet." His post indicates it's likely a matter of time. So the question is, do we start our "best five?

Here's what I'd do. Start Mason, Graham, Selden, Ellis, and Traylor against UK. Move Cliff into the starting lineup against Rider (I know I said "now" above, changing my mind slightly). If Mason and Graham are functioning fine, and that dynamic works, leave it alone for a while. There are worse things than Svi off the bench. But my tipping point would be once Svi starts hitting from outside. Once he has some games in a row where he is shooting well, then consider making the move -- simply trade out the second best of the Mason/Graham battle.

One last thing. @beddieku23 mentioned how bad our zone offense was. What's new? It is just a stagnant scheme, but that's another post. Been there before. What was the bright spot though? Svi -- he was the best passer against the zone. Got the ball to the middle of the zone effectively, rotated the ball effectively. Self has to love that.

After a disjointed first half, pretty nice finish. Not really expecting that we would struggle as much offensively, but might have been some early tentativeness. Some postgame thoughts:

1. Defense: Love the overplays, trapping, and defensive pressure. Lots of quickness. This is how you have to play when you're a little undersized, and when you don't have the eraser in the back.

2. Alexander: Pretty impressed with his outside shooting. Saw an espn article this week that cited a KU assistant saying that he was an unexpectedly good shooter. We saw that tonight. He needs to start in the post for Traylor.

3. Greene: Started, but don't you get the idea that he's a placeholder? Look at his second half playing time. Literally nothing. I will be shocked if he starts Tuesday. Wonder about his role.

4. Graham: My preference is that he starts instead of Greene. Our asset is speed and quickness. Let's use it. Mason, Graham, Selden on the perimeter does that. The pace of the game is better. Graham looks like a terrific player. Seems to play some good defense, as well. Pretty darn good, actually. It is really reassuring to have two quality ball handlers. The star of the game.

5. Svi: Still getting his feet under him. Self likes him. Svi is a ball mover, excellent passer, quick and crisp. Plays active defense. B-Star with NBA talent. Nice sequence with the cross over that would make Tim Hardaway proud, and the dish to Cliff. Then a rebound and score. First perimeter guy off the bench should be his role right now, over Greene or Oubre. If I said that he was our best talent, would anyone argue with that?

6. Oubre: Uh, remember the speculation of the guarantee that he'd start for Wiggins? I cannot imagine that if Oubre is really better than Svi, that he would be playing over Svi. This is worth watching. Oubre is on draft boards, considered an OAD, and is the last perimeter player.

7. Other Post Players: Ellis still struggled defensively. Traylor has his well defined role of first big off the bench. He ain't a starter. Had 10 quiet rebounds. Just a perfect role for him. Lucas did look good. Like his low block presence. And Mickelson, on the outside looking in.

8. Selden: He's learning and adapting to his new shot. His form was changed, so we can be patient. He'll get it. But I firmly think that the change in his shot is the reason for his struggles. I just wonder why he's not more aggressive with the ball. Also, I thought he was excellent on defense. But he isn't a "combo guard." He's the big wing Self said he was. Played a few minutes of point when Graham joined Mason with 2 fouls, but Self quickly put Graham back in.

9. Mason: Saw a little of the Mason from last season. Some ill conceived drives. One other thing -- notice how he takes the layup when he could pass to a teammate on a breakaway? he likes to score. We need him to score, sure, but we need those 7 assists we saw vs. Washburn. He'll be fighting Graham. And trying to hold off Svi for a starting spot. Competition is good. Like his three point shooting. Looks better.

10. Substitutions: Notice how the substitutions settled down in the second half? I think that is the best indicator of Self's current preference on playing time. Oubre/Mick did not play. Greene and Lucas just a few minutes. The other 7 guys were the "rotation."

11. No lineup oddities: No playing small (perimeter guy at the 4), nor Ellis at the three. I will be surprised if either ever happens this season. Playing small, maybe. Ellis at the three, really, never. Just no advantage to it.

My biggest takeaway is that our defense looks so much better than last season. Amazing, huh? Wiggins, who was supposedly an excellent defender. And no Embiid. Same Selden. Same Ellis. Same Traylor. No Tharpe. Watch Mason and Graham and their effort guarding. Something Tharpe could only muster here and there. I like what I'm seeing.

@jaybate-1.0 I posted this last night on another thread, fyi: "By the way, I couldn't resist calling Hawk Talk Wednesday. I asked Self if the perimeter guy at the 4 spot was still possible ( since they didn't do it in either exhibition), or if it was on the shelf. Self said it was "on the shelf." He said that the main reason he was considering it was because of the logjam on the perimeter, but since CF left, that has changed. Sounds like that isn't going to happen. Seemed odd that his rationale for considering it wasn't really a strategic one, but more personnel based. "

Before I asked the question, I kind of thought he could be hiding it for UK.

Ok, a little UCSB game prep -

1. Read where Self intends to keep up the pressure D. He mentioned the continued use of trapping like we saw vs. ESU. This is terrific. When you have a small team, we had discussed a few weeks ago that the trapping element is a great way for small team make some hay. Creating a frenetic pace, keeping the opposition off guard -- we don't have a rim protector, we don't have height -- who cares? We can be a much better defensive team without a rim protector. To be honest, stagnant man to man doesn't appeal to me. Playing defense when you have to prove something, with a chip on your should appeals to me much more. So good. No rim protector. Now go out and make something happen. I like it.

2. Personally, I'd start Graham. Self said Mason, Selden, Ellis, and Traylor are starting. I'd add Graham and run with it. Then I'd bring in Svi. That means Self will start Greene. See how easy that is?

3. Alexander isn't sitting. I bet he gets the second most minutes of our post players off the bench. I have a hunch that you might see some good doses of Traylor and Alexander together. Again, activity, energy, and "want to" are nice substitutes for 7 footers. I'm interested, and a bit concerned, with Ellis on the defensive end. Too early to worry, right @KUSTEVE?

4. Self talked about a rotation of "9 or 10" early. I'd had to be the 11th. But I bet he plays all 11 tomorrow. Seems like Mickelson might be the dreaded 11th.

5. By the way, I couldn't resist calling Hawk Talk Wednesday. I asked Self if the perimeter guy at the 4 spot was still possible ( since they didn't do it in either exhibitiion), or if it was on the shelf. Self said it was "on the shelf." He said that the main reason he was considering it was because of the logjam on the perimeter, but since CF left, that has changed. Sounds like that isn't going to happen. Seemed odd that his rationale for considering it wasn't really a strategic one, but more personnel based.

6. We won't lose to UCSB. We may get pushed. But I sense one of those games where we have an uncomfortable lead that fluctuates from 3-9, and we can't pull away.

7. With all the Svi talk, I am also impressed with Graham. What I like best is how well he handles the ball. Seems dead reliable. Seems natural. I just really like our recruiting class. It would sure be nice to have them all back next season. Imagine if we do get them back. 2015-16, guys, may be the season. That may be the national title waiting to happen. But we can do it this season, too.

8. One benefit to our depth, or our quality depth -- is there one guy that might foul out that you would say, "we're screwed"? Doesn't seem that way to me.

Hoops season is here.

This is a great topic ... reminds me of Aaron Rodgers "RELAX" comment to Green Bay fans this season.

But anytime is a good time to worry. Why? Because nothing is certain. In college hoops, one bad night can turn the best season, and perhaps the best team in many years, into a huge disappointment (See 1997 Jayhawks).

I'm like Stupid Michael from the other site. I'll always worry .. until that national title trophy is being held by Coach Self in April

But how exciting is the start of the season? This is the best.

@jaybate-1.0 Regarding Selden, I think his hesitancy is based on the change to his shot .. shooting from out front vs. pulling it back over his head, like he did last season (and probably his entire life). I think that it will make him a better shooter when all is done this season. His shot looks great from a fundamental standpoint.

@JayHawkFanToo @drgnslayr Volume shooter -- see Andrew Wiggins. The 6 of 14 shooting night, two of them three pointers, plus 4 free throws made = 18 points. The volume shooter comment was made by Self to refer to the studs in high school who shoot in bunches. That's all. They score massively because they shoot massively. No way they can do that in college.

I was at the game last night. My first reaction was "blah." Meaning, no one stood out. As Self said, little separation. The only real excitement was Alexander's little run there where he had a few dunks.

Then it hit me. This is the type of team that may need that. Equal functioning. A couple other observations:

1. I liked Graham penetrating and scoring near the end of the half. It was like ESU gave that to him. He took it, and hit the floater.

2. Selden seemed to disappear a bit. I looked at the clock at appx. the 9:00 mark in the 2nd half and Selden has 5 points (I believe). Odd to me. This does not appear to be Selden's team.

3. Svi did the poor shooting routine. I would have like to have seen him drive the ball a couple of times. The Bobby Knight shot fake, and then a drive. He did get some open looks. He did move the ball quickly, the "don't let it stick thing." And he seemed to play good defense. We'll see.

4. I am concerned with our big men. Ok, maybe not concerned. Apprehensive may be the better term. I just want to see how they play against real competition. It seems like the only thing holding Alexander back right now is his knowledge of the system. That is the only thing. If we're playing as a big minutes back up, his lack of knowledge is not a critical impediment. Thus he should start. But if he gets low minutes, of course, we'll know it is a major problem. I do want to see how Lucas does vs. the better competition, because right now, he looks smooth, confident, and highly serviceable. Mickelson is hard to figure out.

5. Greene/Oubre - I'm not sure what I want here. But I want more. Greene seemed active, Oubre didn't to me ... or at least he didn't stand out. They both were kind milk-toast to me.

6. Activity - I did like the trapping and increased pressure. Missed on some backside coverage, but mixing this in is exactly what the doctor ordered.

7. No Small Four - Again, we didn't see Oubre, Greene, Selden, or Svi at the 4. Maybe it's being held in secret to surprise UK. Doubtful.

8. Lineup - Just my opinion. I'd start Mason, Graham, Selden, Ellis, and Alexander. Svi would be my first perimeter sub, then Greene -- the guy playing the best gets more minutes for now. Traylor and Lucas as post subs. Oubre and Mickelson riding the pine. All this for now. I could see Self going with Greene over Svi because of experience, and the big stage in the Champions classic.

9. Ellis - One last thing. I would not hesitate to sit Ellis on the bench for his overall passivity and poor play on defense. He is just a poor defensive player. No dressing that up. Last night, it made me shake my head. Kind of frustrating. It is odd, but Ellis is my biggest worry right now. Mainly because we have our wagon hitched to his lead.

@Crimsonorblue22 No, no, no ... 1000 times no. KY's was a classic 70's 'fro, of Artis Gilmore vintage. A work of art. A staple on ABA courts throughout the land. Bringing up memories of Dr. J with the iconic slam over a defenseless oaf, the 'fro arcing backward from the near terminal velocity. The mess on Oubre's head is, well, not that. Oubre's hair is perhaps a Fiero, where the classic 'fro is a Corvette. Dr. J, Artis Gilmore, and other 'fro legends demand an apology.

!Dr. J.jpg ↗

@justanotherfan And that's something to watch tonight. Against Washburn, Self did not utilize a perimeter player at the 4 even once. Will be interesting to see if that's done tonight.

@KansasComet Great point on the Kentucky game; and actually, the boxscore will be a nice indicator on Self's overall view of the minutes distribution.

Last year vs. Duke, our top 7 minutes guys were Ellis, Selden, Wiggins, Tharpe, Embiid, Traylor, and Mason. Black started, but had early trouble and Self went with Embiid. Greene was the 5th perimeter guy, and got 8 minutes.

Rustin Dodd is reporting that Self said that Svi is scheduled to start against Emporia St. Is this a merit based start in Self's eyes, or is it motivation for Svi's competition? Starters are Mason, Selden, Svi, Ellis and Traylor.

We all saw the same thing. We saw a long, quick, active and potentially dynamic player in KU's first exhibition vs. Washburn. And it seems that the consensus is that Svi is perhaps the best shooter on the team from three point range, at least neck and neck with Greene. Is the guy too good to be true? But it's just hard for me to imagine that a kid this young could actually be a starter at Kansas as a freshman. But I want to imagine.

Why not? Don't we deserve the surprise? The guy no one projected to be as good as he actually turned out to be? We deserve a Trey Burke or a Derrick Williams. Svi is well respected, landing in top 10 of 2016 mock drafts. But if he emerges as a starter, and a star, this season -- that's a shock of epic proportions.

I try to avoid "giddy" best I can. But I have to admit, after watching him play last Monday, I'm giddy. Svi has tools, skills, and physical attributes that are impressive. Do we have a Euro-phenom on our hands? The eye test, at least initially, says yes.

Of course, the most likely scenario is that Self is using this spot as motivation for all involved. It's doubtful, of course, that this is any indication that Self sees Svi as the presumptive starter. We have presumed OAD Oubre, who was slated to take Wiggins' place. The best guess is Oubre takes that spot. Mason, Selden, Oubre, Ellis and Alexander. Fate. Last week, Self was going to start Greene, but Greene had a weak pregame practice ... or that's at least what Self said. And Svi needs experience and he needs reps in practice. That's the logical me. That's not very much fun.

But I don't want to be logical. I want to see this guy explode on the college basketball scene. The unguardable 6'8", ball handling, three point shooting, take it to the hoop monster that becomes our go-to player in an instant.

"Ukrainian Phenom Lead KU To National Title."

Of course, when Svi goes 1-7 vs. Emporia with four turnovers, we'll forget this ever happened.

@justanotherfan You said, "I am firmly of the belief that Coach Self's system does not require multiple years to learn." -- and you bolded "does not."

That, I think, is missing the point with OADs.

Self's system is difficult to grasp quickly. Meaning, that it takes time to be effective in Self's system. Thus I think when compared to the static, average college program, it just takes a player longer to assimilate with Self. To learn what Self wants. To know where he needs to be, and what he needs to do.

Part of Self's system is "toughness" -- that can be taught. It can be learned. But many guys don't start diving on floors immediately.

Part of Self's system is his impatience with mistakes. This certainly limits quick development. It puts guys on the bench many times as they learn. Other programs, you will guys playing. A good example is/was Anrio Adams and/or Andrew White in 2012-13. There were room for minutes for one of them. Self didn't have the patience. You get in and dribble the ball off your foot, you're done.

And development is not just becoming a starter -- it's becoming better. Witness Marcus Morris from freshman to junior. Starter each year, but he developed. Development is just a nice, upward progression.

@jaybate-1.0 Interestingly, Self played small (with a perimeter player at the 4) exactly zero minutes vs. Washburn. What do you make of that? Seemed like the rotations were pretty scripted; a little surprised that wasn't in the script.

@drgnslayr Another thing I really like is Self focusing on ball handling. That seems like a small thing, but it is really a huge thing. Being fast, being able to maneuver the ball off the dribble, and to be able to get into positions to create, outweigh some of the negatives related to that sort of attack. Graham, Svi, Mason, and Selden are the key to this approach.

Selden, while not a PG, and really just ok as the 2 with the ball, becomes a stud at the 3 with the ball. Mason, Graham, Selden on the floor at the same time creates a much different dynamic. Compare to EJ, McLemore and Releford. We love those guys, but EJ was only guy who could really handle the ball, and he would be behind Mason and Graham in that category. Selden ahead on McLemore and Releford. And compare to Tharpe, Selden, Wiggins. Mason > Tharpe; Graham > Selden; Selden > Wiggins.

But the X-Factor is Svi. I have no idea how quickly he'll progress as a player in Self's eyes. But as much as I like Oubre, I love Svi and what he could bring to the rotation. Imagine the four man mix of Mason, Graham, Svi, and Selden on perimeter. Our level of ball handling would be through the roof, and the effectiveness of our offensive attack will increase.

The battle for the fifth rotation spot is the biggest thing to watch here. Greene vs. Svi (assuming Oubre is ahead of Greene). Game on.

If you have an offense where tossing it inside isn't a sure thing, then maximizing our strengths seems to be the best option (which includes shooting more threes).

@JayHawkFanToo So Adam Silver is our best friend?

Is this really that difficult? All coaches have a choice. Let's not pretend that they don't. Let's not assume that coaches are idiots. They think this stuff through. All coaches have a choice. They do not have to recruit all players simply because they are in the top 10. KU wasn't even in the mix on many of the top 15 players. Why is that? One could assume players eliminated KU. One should also assume that KU eliminated certain players. Do coaches just recruit the best player? Don't they scrutinize their backgrounds? Do they eliminate players for reasons we don't even know?

Coaches do not have to recruit presumed OADs. They recruit presumed OADs because they believe that presumed OADs are the best path to success. I am certain that coach Self recruits presumed OADs because he thinks it's the best path to the ultimate success.

But let's not kid ourselves. There is absolutely no proof that teams stocked with OADs are the best path to a national title. None. We can talk Kentucky, but we certainly aren't talking anyone else, are we? What we see is a litany of teams that have won outside of the OAD model. We see Syracuse in 2003 with Carmelo, and then 2012 with UK. That is it. Remember to fill in the blanks with all of the non-OAD national championship winners. We seem to forget that when we cheer the recruitment of the Andrew Wiggins of the world. The Andrew Wiggins whose style of play was a significant detriment to our overall success, to chemistry, and to the team concept.

But the point raised by @jayhawkfantoo and @drgnslayr is the best one. It is the only one that matters. Does coach Self's system "fit" with the OAD model?

At Kansas, this is all that matters.

The jury is still out.

But back to my point. Coaches have choice. Sure, coach Self might be subject to criticism if he doesn't land the top recruits.. But since when do coaches really care? And if we win, we won't care.

I have said this before -- but the key to coach Self being successful to the degree we all desire is for coach Self to recruit players that fit his system. I believe that Alexander and Oubre fit that bill, OAD or not. And to that end, I think we are two steps ahead of last season already. Alexander and Oubre, at least, seem like the right kind of OAD player.

The OAD experiment is on-going. At least this season, it appears that we have the right formula.

@drgnslayr I loved Releford as a player. Perhaps my favorite on ball defender in Self's tenure here. And the picture of what I prefer when it comes to recruiting players, and building a program.

On Perry, I'm skeptical. I just think guys with that type of passive personality can't really be counted on as a go to type player. I think he can fit well as a second or third option. I have almost thought the opposite sometimes .. whatever he brings us on D is a bonus, just freaking score the basketball. Score. Make up for your defensive inefficiency and put the ball in the hoop .. a lot.

I sense with the chemistry on this team right now, it will work out fine.

@KUSTEVE You're right .. I made a lot of keystrokes begging him to be assertive. He could have averaged 5 more ppg easily.

Here's what Self said:

“We still have to play inside-out. I still think that’s how you win — you play inside-out,” Self told Topekans at Wednesday’s Roundball event at the Ramada Hotel and Convention Center. “But we’ll shoot more 3s than we’ve maybe ever shot. There’ll be more guys with green lights, so to speak, than we’ve ever had.”

Not to be cynical, but does that mean we'll have two guys with green lights instead of one? And will that green light extend for the entire shot clock and not after 15 seconds?

I did notice Greene gun a three real early last game. I watched to see if Self stood up, convulsed, flopped around .. saw none of that.

Self says we are still playing inside-out. That's the real news. Which is really status quo, and which means that guys can't just come down and gun, regardless of "green light", right? The key will be how he reacts to threes that otherwise would cause implosion -- when the bullets start flying a week from tomorrow.

@JayHawkFanToo Agreed that this may not be perfect intel. We know Mason, Selden, Ellis, correct? Those are three starters. We know Cliff will make his way to the starting lineup much like Embiid did last season. So we're left with one spot.

Logic says Oubre. But seeing Graham and Mason together, I'm not so sure.

But another wild card option in the starting lineup -- Svi at the 2 (with Selden at the 3). I'm not necessarily saying this should happen and not saying that it will. But it does tie things together a bit.

Svi is agile, long, and has the tools to guard on the perimeter. That may not necessarily translate to "attitude" defensively.

But bear with me here .. Svi can hit the three. He's a clear threat and can stretch the defense. Of course, Self won't set his lineup based on three point shooters.

But there's more. Svi can penetrate. He demonstrated in the scrimmage and against Washburn that he has that skill set.

Very importantly, though, he is the third best ball handler on the team. I say that assuming that Selden has not made miraculous strides. It seemed clear to me that Svi could handle the ball in traffic. Important in my conclusion was that he was not looking down at the ball when he dribbled. Admittedly, I only got one look at it -- no rewind review. Of course, saying he's the third best ball handler doesn't comment on the gap between #2 and #3, but I sense Svi is perhaps an equal distance between Mason/Graham and Selden, if not closer to the PGs.

If that is the case, that squares with Self's preference for ball handlers on the court. So we have an agile and long guard, 6'8", who has the tools to play good defense, who can penetrate, who can hit the three, and who fits Self's preference for ball handlers on the court.

Again, I don't expect it. It's a long shot. Clearly, my belief that Svi will be the presumptive starter at the two next season makes much more sense. It's certainly a wild-card consideration.

The eye test is the best test. But the sample size is small, and thus the eyes could lie.

And remember, I never used "Larry Bird" and "Svi" in the same sentence. That was @jaybate-1.0.

@globaljaybird Thanks .. hoping to get to Allen in person this next exhibition.

For what it's worth, here was the sub pattern (until all 11 scholarship players were in the game):

Starters: Mason, Graham, Selden, Ellis, Trayor

First Sub: Greene for Graham; Alexander for Traylor

Second Sub: Graham for Mason, Svi for Selden, and Lucas for Ellis

Third Sub: Mason for Graham, Oubre for Greene, and Traylor for Ellis

Fourth Sub: Mickelson for Lucas

Greene and Alexander were first off the bench.

Next, Svi and Lucas.

Then Oubre.

Finally Mickelson.

Not sure what that says. But for those that look for changes, or patterns -- which I do -- I'll be interested to see what Self does in Exhibition #2.

By the way, welcome @KJD .. always good to add to the crowd here. In the sub pattern above, and based on Self's comments, Greene seems to be ahead of Oubre and Svi at the moment. "At the moment" seems to be the operative phrase here. Small sample vs. Washburn. But even in the scrimmage, Svi was really active. Self even commented how well he did, but that the ball just didn't go in the hole that night.

I just go to BWW and enjoy. Otherwise, my head will implode. But I will never subscribe to TWC. In fact, I sold their stock because of it. As @JayHawkFanToo said, it "is plain stupidity bordering on lunacy."

I would much rather have PPV.

@JayhawkRock78 @konkeyDong

I get the logic, and get the series stuff.

But this isn't about who is the "best team." It is about who is a "champion." Best teams aren't always champions, under any format.

Best 4 of 7 doesn't account for a hot team either. We've seen that too many times to count.

It is funny how so many top programs somehow get lucky and win the NCAA tourney, isn't it? Duke, NC, KU, UConn, Kentucky, etc.

But there is no escaping the logic the two of you have suggested here. I just can't stand the inference that KU has an excuse for failing so many times to win 6 games in March. Just win the damn thing.

@JayHawkFanToo A "lucky run"? Yikes .. tournaments are how real champions are decided at every level. So you value the AFC West title more for the Chiefs than a "lucky" Super Bowl run? Or if the Royals won the division, that being more valuable than a "lucky" World Series run?

"Luck" is involved in everything. In MLB, the Royals missed out on winning the division by a couple of games. So some weird bounce in a game in May, and a bad call in a game in June decided that fate then. 162 games came down to the last few games. That's no different than a tournament. Then the teams that won during the regular season didn't pan out in the playoffs. So the Royals dominant run was "lucky?"

I think it's way too dismissive to suggest that, for example, UConn's run was "lucky."

Regardless, it is how true champions are crowned, and it's how they always have been.

Sorry, not trying to start this debate again. The Royals run just added to it for me.

@nuleafjhawk Right .. they were a bad-ass group.

When Svi signed, my concern was that we could lose White and Greene due to Svi's presence (The timing was obvious with White), and that Svi, being from overseas, was a greater risk to bolt after one season (home sick, Euro or other pro ball). Looks like Svi might have had just a little to do with CF's departure, too.

Seriously, Svi threatens Greene's PT and thus his presence on this roster. That could twist Greene's nose a bit. A situation to watch for sure, but is that being too dramatic?

@jaybate-1.0 Nice summary .. my only quibble would be "Self has quit trying to change Perry and instead he has built a team of Perry Ellises." I just didn't see that last night. I could be wrong. I saw a team with a little tenacity. Cliff sets a nice tone with his aggressiveness. I'm just talking attitude.

Don't mistake quickness, and speed, and flow for finesse. The 2008 team was much the same way. Guys were scrappers, But they were basketball players. Of all of our teams since 2008, this has the same "look" of our 2008 team.

Not to get too optimistic on this, but Svi seems to have the entire package here. What I was most impressed with was his activity and his ball handling. He is energy. Now, I was a little worried that I'm too giddy ... but here's what @jaybate-1.0 said, "Svi has a Larry Bird like presence on the floor. Wreaks intensity and focus. Shuffles when he runs. He can alter tempo which ever position he plays."

He's right.

Svi has Greene beat. Greene has to respond. Greene can respond. Will he? If not, Svi will play. Oubre better watch out, too. Why?

Self wants ball handling. The third best ball handler on this team is Svi.

Then again, maybe I'm just giddy.

Svi seems like our classic case of a guy who will just get better and better playing.