🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Exhibition #1 is in the books ... some quick takes. I was able to see the game, but without sound. Buffalo Wild Wings had the sound on, but impossible to hear. Probably better off not hearing Dave Armstrong -

1. Frank Mason: Any questions? Clearly the star of the exhibition. Penetrated at will, good passing, was able to score, looked good from three. KU fans, your new point guard. Looked the part. It's his job.

2. Cliff Alexander: Uh, start him now. Active, strong, nice touch, tough. Nice compliment to Ellis. Keeping him on the floor will be the challenge, but he did seem under control. He did a nice job going vertical a couple of times.

3. Svi/Oubre/Greene: Was it just me, or did Svi make an impression? Active, quick, can handle the ball. Oubre looked fine. But if I were to project the player with the higher ceiling, I'd bet on Svi. The question is whether Svi can mature quick enough this season to get playing time. I'd also put Svi ahead of Greene by a touch right now. Self said after the game that he intended to start Greene, but Greene's defense was poor in practice yesterday, so he went with Graham. The battle is on here. Hard to project where things shake out by February, but I'm impressed with Svi.

4. Point Guard: We saw Selden at PG for less than 2 minutes in the first half, and for 3 minutes in the second half. Big lineup. I could see that being used 5 or so minutes per game. I don't like it at all. Just looked slow. It goes to Self's point that we're better with playmakers. That seemed obvious.

5. Ellis: Sorry, he's the same guy. That may be fine. But he's not more aggressive. He was really pretty timid on the boards. He's a scorer, but the rest of his game will be the question. Alexander next to him works nicely, and may be a perfect match.

6. Traylor/Lucas/Mickelson: Traylor, first big off the bench. That's his role. Starting is temporary. As for Lucas and Mickelson, I go with Lucas right now. Self seems to have that pecking order, too. I don't see much negative in Lucas.

7. Best Lineup Right Now: Mason, Graham, Selden, Ellis, Alexander. I do like the two small guards in the game.

8. Selden/Mason: Two offseason coaching projects. One was obvious, the other not. Notice how Selden has stopped pulling the ball back over his head on his outside shot, setting it more conventionally in front? Well see how that works out. The other, Mason -- supposedly they worked on getting the ball off his palm, more into his fingertips. Seeing him warm up, it didn't look like it. But it might have been too subtle to see.

Would love to hear everyone else's thoughts.

@wissoxfan83 I agree 100% ... but you and I are in the minority.

@Crimsonorblue22 You know that CF was not the worst three point shooter on this team -- you correctly cite the percentages, but you know the percentages in this case aren't a fair indicatory. The sample size was too small, and the nature of the sample skews the reliability.

Self has admitted that he knows that his handling of shooters hurts their productivity.

But Self simply values the three point shot less than many of us do. That's all. He can't stomach what he sees as other deficiencies when compared to draining 4 of 6 threes. It's just the weight or importance he places on it.

@nuleafjhawk My bet is CF goes to a school that values his greatest attribute.

@JayHawkFanToo You said, "Like I mentioned before, in a different year with less talent Frankamp could have been a starter or a heavy contributor such as Conner Teahan or Kevin Young."

And that's really all it is. Opportunity. Guys like White and CF could have been stars, and could have even been big contributors as freshmen. The opportunity to play, get their legs under them, and get better under fire.

It's where I get tired of folks who say, "Well. CF didn't shoot well last season."

But he got no real opportunity for consistent playing time. If Wiggins had a year long staph infection, and Greene separated his shoulder, where would AW3 be right now?

My bet is he'd be considered a core performer. Self has to determine the best players, but that doesn't mean the next guy isn't good, too.

Heck, Self said today that some guys don't show well in practice, but when they get in the game, they do. This exactly why Self's evaluations are not always spot on. Self doesn't let guys get in and get comfortable. Self recognized in a press conference earlier that the comfort level is important to producing. Self admits that guys don't always show their best in practice, and that in games, it's hard to get comfortable when you get the quick hook --- to me, that proves the point that we can't make really any good evaluation of the guys that get the quick hook. Not until they get meaningful, uninterrupted playing time.

Thus is why CF (and hid dad) made a wise decision. You could be the 2nd best quarterback on the planet, but if you're on the same team with the best quarterback, you get zero playing time.

I would say my attention will be focused on Mason. What does he do with the ball? Does he look to be a creator? How sure is his shot? Can he get to the rack and score when presented the opportunity? Does he run into brick walls and throw up crap? This could be the key to our season.

@globaljaybird Question for all to consider -- Does anyone think that we could not have won a national title with CF starting at the 2 and Andrew White at the 3?

Maybe I'm in the small minority here, but I think we could have. I think both players have tremendous talent. I think both could have been major contributors in their sophomore seasons.

We lament the OAD dilemmas. And I can't stand it.

What if? What if no Wiggins, no Oubre, no Graham? Selden turned pro. Assume we have White starting at the 3, CF at the 2, with Greene the first perimeter guy off the bench. Are you any less encouraged about our NC possibilities? Not me. But am I delusional?

As it is now, we're hoping Oubre develops, learns our system -- becomes ready this season. Same with Graham. We're hoping. We saw White last season. He was ready. CF proved he is ready. Self complains every season about being "young", but he has asked for it. He chose Graham over CF. He chose Oubre over White. We're young because he wants young. Don't complain about it, or use it as an excuse, anymore.

I saw a tremendous comment by a poster at kusports.com -- he said that KU has gone from developing players, to replacing them on an annual basis.

This is exactly right.

I know every player on our roster isn't an OAD. I know there are players in the gray area -- "maybe" OADs. But look at the impact. In my post above, I mentioned that OADs weren't direct cause of CF leaving, but suggested an indirect connection.

Upon reflection, I think it's bigger than that. It's not just OADs, but it's getting recruited over. It's the lack of loyalty and the lack of commitment by Self to guys on our roster. But we want that, right? We want the best players, and better players, right? The complication here is that with the highly ranked guys and OADs, they aren't coming if they don't play. That throws off the entire "competition" thing. But did Wiggins deserve to start? Sure. Embiid? Yep.

But that's not the point. Both are gone. We go from Embiid, to Alexander, to the next OAD. Or we recruit a 3-4 year guy that holds that scholarship. The Karviar Shepherd question.

This is confusing. It's a dilemma. But I feel like we're in the twilight zone. A perpetual limbo. Not knowing what the "core" of our program is. It is an uneasy feeling. Heck, we have no commits right now in the first part of November. None. When is the last time that occurred? This is some objective evidence of our state of limbo.

The CF transfer brings those feelings to the surface. As I've thought about this, it sickens me really. Maybe it's because we have lost a sure 4 year player. Maybe it's because I think Self destroyed his spirit a bit. Maybe it's because I think Self mismanages shooters. Maybe I don't know what the he** I'm talking about. I don't know. And I don't know the answer.

What I do know is that time is the only thing that will give us the answer. We won a national title with "developed" players. We have not won a national title with OADs and a "young" team yet.

I balance this against the trust of coach Self to pick the best talent for his team, and to jettison, either forcefully (Tharpe) or as a result of recruiting (White) or as a result of competition (CF).

I just enjoyed getting to know players, counting on their development, seeing their improvement, and watching them go through the program. To a large extent, that's ending.

@DanR I don't know about that. I only watched it once. But I recall one blow by and that was it -- the one where CF made a tough layup. Svi got a lot of shots, just didn't go in. Don't recall how many were vs. CF.

@Kip_McSmithers I guess what I mean is that Mason, Graham, Svi would be the three guys handling the 1 and 2 spots. If Brown came in, given history, Brown plays over Greene as you mentioned. That makes Greene the #5 guy. Why stay to be the #5 guy again?

For that matter, if Oubre stays, same thing. I agree. Dorsey wouldn't be ahead of Greene, but Dorsey is more of a ball handler type. A true two guard, with PG aspirations. Greene more of a 3, who could play the 2 with ok ball handling. So Dorsey would fill a different role. Dorsey could be sold on the idea of getting the 2 spot his sophomore season, after Svi presumably leaves.

But I want to see this play out .. heck, Greene could explode this season. I'd love to see it.

@KansasComet Maybe just a 6'8" Conner Frankamp?

@KansasComet Here's what's interesting to me .. I could have definitely seen CF and Mason on the floor together. Different skill sets, but complementing each other. With Selden at the 3. Odd, but I think that "chemistry" would have been pretty good. Mason the penetrator. CF the shooter. Both can bring the ball up under pressure, just different styles.

@drgnslayr Man, good point about post-playing days. Having KU ties is golden. Conner is a guy who most certainly will play overseas. Slipping to mid-major will be perfect for him. I saw Butler floated out there somewhere. He'll find a good fit just like AW3 has.

Make no mistake, both AW3 and CF could have been starters here. And we could have won conference titles with them. And we could have competed for national championships with them. No doubt in my mind. Top 50 players.

The Brannen Greene "watch" is now on. What is his role? Is he satisfied? Could he transfer? Or does he seize a major role?

When Svi signed, I expressed concern about that impact. Could we lose White and Greene? Well, now it's, could we lose White, CF and Greene? Heck, playing this out, Self signs Tyler Dorsey and Jaylen Brown, and Greene is the 5th guy this season, do you think he sticks around?

Don't be surprised.

@dylans A couple of things .. I think Self's "chemistry" comment wasn't meant to be derogatory towards CF. Just more that now we only have 6 perimeter guys, thus it will be easier to slot guys in. That's all.

On starters for Monday, it made sense that Self would start CF -- Mason, CF, Selden, Traylor, Ellis. I am nearly 100% sure that's what it would have been. No freshmen. Now the question is who starts instead of CF? Maybe Graham because of the ball handling thing. Maybe Oubre. One thing we won't see -- Ellis sliding to the 3, and Cliff starting alongside Traylor. That I can pretty much assure you won't happen (I kid because I care).

@JayHawkFanToo I think you're right on one year, but see the part about forfeiting a year? I was thinking sit two seasons, but a kid it looks like sits a year and forfeits a year of eligibility. I knew there was some penalty for intra-conference stuff.

For all interested in rules stuff, here's the link - always handy stuff.

http://www.big12sports.com/fls/10410/pdfs/handbook/Rules.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=10410 ↗

@DanR I love the cynicism. More freshmen starting, "yipee!" I hear ya ...

The fact that a player is lost to transfer is always a shock, but is it ever a surprise at Kansas? When have we ever truly been surprised by a transfer? Somewhat like the passing of an elderly relative that has been ill. We know it's going to happen, that it is just a matter of time, but that doesn't change the surprise when it actually happens, nor the sadness. I'm sad that CF has transferred. This was the destination he desired his entire life, his goal was to be a Jayhawk. And now that's gone.

But we knew the numbers didn't work out -- at least everyone at kubuckets.com knew that. But the question was always "who"? It wasn't hard to see that the loser of the Mason/Graham/CF competition was the odd man out; but even then, the loser could have won the the 5th perimeter guy spot. CF made the presumptive decision to transfer. The 5th guy -- usually scraps (6-10 minutes at most in the second half of the season) was not enough. It's just too bad he didn't do it before the semester started. He could have preserved a semester of game action.

But this is also about 2015-16. Could CF have won the 2 spot after Selden leaves? Unfortunately for Frankamp, there is a 6'8" Ukrainian standing in his way. A 6'8" stud who can shoot it just as well.

CF's decision to transfer was an excellent one in my opinion. I have read on other sites a bit of criticism of this father, that his dad or family pushed him to make this decision. Really, who better for CF to rely upon for advice? Kids ... and CF is just a kid ... rarely make well reasoned decisions, based on the proper perspective. His dad's looking out for him.

We can easily assume that Self had Mason and Graham pegged ahead of CF. That is now obvious. We heard that Mason is the starter. We've heard that Graham needs to be in the rotation. The writing was on the wall.

The recent comment by Self that CF is not a point guard was also a big indicator. That coming after Self mentioned CF by name when the PG discussion came up with Andy Katz in September. But then practice happened. Something changed.

But I will suggest that nothing changed. It was just coach Self saying the right things for the ears of his players. Self knew that CF was considering transferring last spring. So before practices get rolling, Self makes the point that CF is in the PG discussion. Makes sense. He doesn't know how practice will work out. He keeps his options open. Heck, he could know that Mason will start, but Mason could tear an ACL in the first week of practice. Then, after practices, when Self's presumption of how things are going to break is fulfilled, and after CF himself knows how things are breaking, Self offers the CF "is not a point guard" comment.

Whoever was the loser of the PG battle .. not in the top two, was gone. That seemed clear. Would the loser be content to sit behind two guys for his entire career? Sure, some suggest that a kid should stick it out. Battle. Not be selfish. But I suggest that is selfish of us. These young men only go through this once. I don't suggest that they transfer, I simply suggest that transferring is a very reasonable decision. As it stands, CF only has 2 1/2 seasons left in his college career. Players should find a place that they can play.

CF -- whose shooting went in the tank last season, should stay at a place where, at best, he is the 5th perimeter guy? At a place where Self doesn't let shooters just shoot? Where his main skill, the skill that will allow him to play pro ball somewhere, is not valued and cultivated?

No way. If I were CF I would never have come to KU in the first place. It was not a match for his skill set. Not even close. We've had that discussion -- it came up at kusports.com when he signed. How does a guy with CF's lack of size, who is not really a PG, who is a shooter, who is not a defensive wizard, get on the floor? It was a weird match.

My question is, why recruit him? If I have a criticism of coach Self in recruiting, it is that he recruits guys that are clearly not a match for his system, or his temperament. Why recruit the guy in the first place? I know, in-state, highly ranked guy. But it was never a good match. There is nothing about CF's game that matches Self-ball. There is simply no comparable player in the history of Self's tenure at KU.

And we can't blame this transfer on OADs, at least not directly. Of course, in CF's mind (and his dad's) must have been the concern that at any moment, Self could snag the next hot OAD and CF would be on the bench. That was surely a consideration. Why redshirt and risk that?

We lost Andrew White -- his fate sealed by Andrew Wiggins, and then Kelly Oubre. We lost Naadir Tharpe -- his fate sealed by his own play. We lost Conner Frankamp -- his fate sealed by competition.

Self has the luxury of a deep roster. Self has the complication of deep roster. It's a double-edged sword. Self stating that with CF's transfer that "we gained (on) some chemistry issues" was very telling. It made his life easier, to be honest. He doesn't have to stare down the bench at an otherwise deserving player, who doesn't get to play. I'm sure it wasn't easy for him to see Andrew White sitting there last season. It's much easier for Self to see Wesley sitting. Or to see a freshman sitting.

It all adds up to a transfer. It's reality at Kansas. Now on to Monday night.

@KUSTEVE No, I agree .. I just kind of think Self will leave them out of the starting lineup to begin with. I think both being starters is just a matter of time.

@KUSTEVE You are right on point. Survival of the fittest. It's all about competition.

It is exactly what needed to happen. Self said the following: “We’ve lost obviously a very good shooter, but we may have also gained some chemistry issues, where now I think guys will be more locked in and more able to probably figure out what their role will be because they’ll definitely be anywhere between 10 and 20 or 10 or 23, whatever minutes there would be to go around, amongst the other guys,”

Self seems pleased. We should be too.

CF was not a Self-ball guy. That's been discussed here. Now all the finesse players are gone, except Ellis. Tharpe, CF, Wiggins, and Embiid (who isn't a tough, physical guy, but not soft by any means .... just not a physicality first guy. More finesse).

We knew someone was sitting. That brings it down to six. We know another guy is out.This looks an awful lot like Mason, Graham, Selden, Oubre, and Greene, with Svi being the likely odd guy out as we hit January. CF's transfer seems to help Greene the most. It sounds like CF's best scenario was the 5th perimeter guy, much like we have assumed. Greene gets that job.

Look at what Self does in the Kentucky game. Much like Self's handling of the Duke game last season, as we discussed in advance that game, the UK game will be our insight. Perhaps we should have known White's fate when he got a grand total of 4 minutes vs. Duke. The high level opponent gives us a look into who Self really trusts.

I could really see Mason, Graham, Selden, Traylor and Ellis as our immediate starters, with Oubre and Alexander squeezing in later.

This was all about opportunity for CF. Kids want to play. They should want to play. This only happens once for them.

“I’ve been thinking about this for a while now,” Frankamp said. “I love KU and I love the Jayhawks. I feel like I’ve improved quite a bit since I’ve been here. I love my teammates but I just don’t feel like it’s the right fit for me. We have many good guards and so many big-time players. I want to be at a place where I could play a bigger role."

"Bigger role." Hope he gets it.

Meanwhile, we get exactly what we need. The best players that fit the Self-ball mold are on the court.

If the goes to a big 12 school, he sits two years.

As of now, since he is enrolled this semester, he sits until second semester next season. He can't play first semester of the 2015-16 season, much like Withey did with us.

@Kip_McSmithers Oxymoron is what it is ...

The local high school boys team would beat the women's NCAA champs every year.

@globaljaybird Before my time -- but pretty cool.

!Harvey.jpg ↗

@JayHawkFanToo UConn won 2003-04 NCAA title, Red Sox in 2004 World Series, then Patriots won Super Bowl that season (2004-5).

Storrs, CT is about as far from Boston as K-State is from KC.

@jaybate-1.0 I like the analogy .. but let me twist it a little bit.

Last season, sure, it was the X-1. Fast, lean, built for a certain type of flight.

The 2014-15 version of the Hawks, though, are more akin to the A-10 Warthog. Conceived and commissioned to do the dirty work. Not pretty, not flashy .. simply carnage left in its wake.

Mason pilots a Warthog, while Tharpe sat in a malfunctioning X-1.

Mason has an attitude and aggressiveness that is befitting of Self-ball. He had the one critical year of seasoning.

What I believe we will see from Mason is not only a PG that can penetrate and dish, but a guy that can get to the rim and finish when necessary. When all is said and done, I think we'll see a guy shooting 37% from 3, nice A/TO ratio, and double figure scoring.

Self recruiting a replacement pilot. Lots of motivation to keep the plane in the air.

That is very cool news.

Nice picture of Ashley Judd .. only way it would look better is if her shirt was off.

Not a lot of feminists you can say that about ...

@KUSTEVE I'll challenge you a bit there; how is the NCAA corrupt? They serve the member institutions (who make the rules), help create profitability, and enforce rules. Now, you or others may not agree with the rules, and want those changed -- that's a different issue. But I'm curious about the "corrupt" comment. Not saying I disagree, just interested in why the are "corrupt."

I wouldn't worry about copy/pasting full articles. Just say where it came from. This isn't a news site. No one is making money (as opposed to copy/pasting on the kusports.com site).

@JayHawkFanToo I'm beginning to think that's a real possibility. If he isn't a fit this year, I'm quite sure that he's gone. There was never discussion that Andrew White didn't "buy in." He seemed to buy in 100%. Must have been something else.

Really interested to see how this plays out. A few good games, etc., some big hustle plays, all can be forgotten. Sounds like there may be issues with teammates. I just hate to speculate on stuff like that, though. But that can hold a guy back just as much as a poor 3 percentage.

@dylans Thanks for the post .. The Brannen Greene thing stands out to me. Seems like some of that info might be from more than just observation, and maybe a conversation with a coach.

In these kind of "spontaneous" photos, CF never looks too spontaneous.

On another note, the article at kusports.com mentioned that Greene said that Graham is a much better shooter than he thought he would be. Interesting.

@Crimsonorblue22 Me like Mangino.

The only knocks on Ellis from my end are defensively, that he disappears here and there offensively, and that he's a finesse player.

But every player has flaws, and things we can knock. The defensive issues really compromise this team, though. If he doesn't improve there, Self will have him on the bench like he did last season in stretches.

@JayHawkFanToo Yes, that is freakish length. I'm excited to see the guy on the defensive end.

As for Lucas, I fall back on the "Self knows best" thing there ...

Lucas is a really, really likeable guy. Product of an excellent family (it appears). Only a sophomore. Low ranked. An after thought -- the result of missing on Tarc. He's insurance. Anything better than a serviceable back-up as an upperclassman is gravy.

I do trust that Self will play him if he deserves it, if he's better than the other options. I do think Self will play the best post players -- it's his approach to perimeter guys that I (respectfully) question sometimes. But when comes to guys in the post, it's been hard to argue.

Really, I think a guy like Oubre -- 6'7" with length -- is probably the best match-up we have for a guy like Turner. Don't know well Mickelson could handle that. Ellis might be more in his element with Turner. Meaning, he's not much of a on the block defender, and chasing a slower guy on the perimeter (compared to a true 3) might fit.

The best way to stop Texas would be to play zone -- good zone. Not a thrown together, three days of prep zone.

@jaybate-1.0 "At the same time, my post is an argument that coaches/authors carry themes to their productive limits, but then have to recogonize certain situational dramatic needs and break their own themes when needed."

Ah, you mean flexibility. My comment is a touch sarcastic, but Self has shown the propensity to add size when necessary (like with Kaun at times in 2008 ), or go small to adjust (like vs. Mizzou in 2012 when they played small).

@JayHawkFanToo Another thing on trapping bigs that we've all seen. When you trap, and trap again, then don't trap, that can be distracting/confusing too. Texas will be a load inside. But somehow, I think we'll manage.

The smaller Jayhawk as shown on the white helmet would do just fine .. I think that's all @nuleafjhawk is saying.

Bowen is stuck with the big Jayhawk this season. But his decision to go to just one home and away look speaks volumes to his focus.

If Bowen stays, my bet is the big spattered Jayhawk is a thing of the past.

This stuff matters. It distracts from winning. And if kids are giggling about it in the locker room, or on the field, or are worried about which "look" they'll have, that's a distraction.

Win first, giggle later.

Think about our match-up with Texas -- Myles Turner and Cameron Ridley.

Personally, I'd just take a page out of Steve Fisher's playbook. Fisher terrorized our bigs with trapping on the block and the short corner. And it was not haphazard. It was very well coached, nice angles to the trap, perfect release points, etc.

The fact is, we don't have a rim protector. You can't have everything. But you can cover weaknesses.

The factor that many times gets overlooked is the "anchor." That is, how well does a player hold his own space. Height, and more precisely length, is important down low. But the anchor is a huge key. We gang up on Ellis quite a bit, so not to pile on, but the reality is he had little to no anchor last season. Alexander seems to have an anchor. Traylor was average with the anchor, but we saw him get schooled regularly by post players with any sort of skill. Lucas/Mickelson, I don't know yet.

But I do think that you could see a combo of Lucas/Mickelson/Alexander in the game together (two of the three), for stretches against bigger teams. If for no other reason than that is the way Self has done it in the past.

@globaljaybird / @drgnslayr .... ssshhhhh. @Crimsonorblue22 might be listening. I'm kidding ......

Interesting you bring up Mason .. from Twitter, Seth Greenberg ,who was at KU's practice yesterday: "Wouldn't be shocked to see Frank Mason and Devonte Graham together. Mason has a little Allen Iverson in him."

He also said that Svi is the "real deal", is "going to be special', and has "feel, skill, length, toughness, needs strength."

You know my answer. Elite 8 sucks.

I contrast that to what we're seeing with the KC Royals. Everything is gravy. If they don't win the world series, I will sleep well. If they would have gotten swept by the O's, I would have slept well. Once they beat the A's, the rest was/is to simply be appreciated.

Different expectations. Different justified expectations.

We are Kansas.

I take @drgnslayr's quote and modify it just a bit, "I desire another NC. I want it bad! We are due! And I am going to expect it."

It is a national championship season until it isn't.

@jaybate-1.0 And is it coincidence that Self talks about playing with two, small playmaking guards more -- after Self saw the last two national champions start small guards (Louisville - Siva/Smith; UConn - Napier/Boatright) all 6'1" and under?

I'm all in with the idea of playing small. I love it. But ......

But, you can't play Self ball and play small effectively (most of the time).

Playing small means you post up based on MUAs (match up advantages, for the uninitiated).

Playing small means you have to be open to playing zone.

Playing small means you have to ensure that shooters are on the floor.

Playing small means that you have to implement strategic use of a press.

Playing small means that you play outside in.

Playing small means you play faster, and faster means you have to tolerate more turnovers.

Is any of that a part of Self's "system"?

It's the anti-Self system.

Would I like Self to tweak his system?

Uh, yea ... you could say that.

But there have been situations where moving outside of his "system" was really the only answer. Yet, Self kept choppin' wood. We weren't winning a national title last season with Embiid out, and playing "inside the box." As result, we went quietly into the night.

Self saw Andrew White have a stellar game against Belmont as a "pick and pop" 4 -- 15 points -- in 2012-13. Never saw it again.

So why would Self do it now? I don't think we'll see Oubre/Selden at the four except for the briefest of stretches. We'll remain (painfully) conventional.

The reason I think is the exact reason why Self won't press. Self said in a recent press conference that the team needs an identity that will work against all opponents. So he doesn't want to press (a gimmick in his mind) against some teams, and not others.

I think ultimately that's why he doesn't play small ( a gimmick) even when it might be the most logical approach.

Thus my preference that he play the guys that fit Self-ball. Let's maximize Self's system. Forget the other stuff.

@JayHawkFanToo I'm a big fan of three point shooting (obviously). But more than anything, this season, I want us to have a Bill Self-type team. Play his style. Do what he wants done. Grit, tough, defensive minded.

I am more convinced than ever that the kind of team some of us want can certainly be successful, but the type of team that will ultimately be the most successful under Self has to take on the character he wants.

You hit it on the the head .. Selden and Oubre better shoot it. They'll be playing. I am very optimistic that Mason can shoot it at the rate Tharpe did last season 37%. But I also think that either CF or Greene will snag some significant minutes.

Since @jaybate-1.0 mentioned red-shirting, I don't think anyone will. The only way it makes sense is if a player believes he'll be a five year player here. Meaning, no going pro early and no transfer. Svi, CF, and Greene don't fit that bill.

And on Greene, I guess my defensive eye isn't as acute as I might believe. I did not see a guy who was horrific, nor did I see a guy who didn't give effort. Good? No. But not Tharpe bad, for example. When there was mention of Greene's defense, I paid attention to Selden very closely the next game. To be honest, I found Selden to be only marginally better. I posted about it at the time. I thought there were times when Selden loafed, when he was out of position, and when he screwed up screens. But Self knows what he wants on that end of the floor.

Me, I'd play zone.

But look, if Greene doesn't buy in, doesn't play hard nosed D, and doesn't give the requisite effort on the defensive end, I want no part of him in the KU rotation under coach Self. I learned my lesson with Tharpe.

If Greene has a misstep, my bet is he's done. Self will move on to Svi. I bet he'd be comfortable with Svi at the three next season, and starting Mason/Graham, with CF and a guy like Dorsey off the bench.

But I'm not counting Greene out at all. Heck, I think when all is said and done, he could lead us in three point shooting and could end up starting. Kind of like CF.

By the way, Self talks about Greene's defense and buying in, but take a look at who is a projected lottery pick in the 2016 NBA mock draft -- http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft. ↗

@jaybate-1.0 I thought a better title to the post might have been, "Three point shooting is NOT for suckers." But what do I know ...

The three point shooting thing is something I remain concerned about to a degree, but I'm optimistic. It's your last sentence "In today's game, treys don't talk, they shout!" --- yes, they do; but Self usually ain't listenin'. Or at least, ain't prioritizin'.

Self said just a few days ago -- "I don’t know how well we can score inside,” Self said. “We’ve always been a team that played to angles and got easy baskets where you didn’t have to go through defense. That’s always been what we’ve done. It doesn’t look like it’s coming near as natural as what it has with some other teams so far.”

Does that not sound like a team that might benefit from stellar three point shooting? Sometimes, you have sacrifice other areas a bit. This team has two guys that can ring the three point shooting bell at 40%, that have one year of experience under their belts. CF and Greene are the two guys that do it right now. And it is amazing to see how a team that hits the the three opens up the floor.

Really, if you have the possible problems getting the ball inside, the perfect elixir is three point shooting. Playing outside in. If shooting is your strength, play outside in. If post play is the strength, play inside out. The strength creates better opportunity to improve on your weakness.

I don't expect us to struggle from three. It sounds like either CF or Greene will be in the rotation. Both of those guys are 40% shooters just waiting to happen. I think that Mason will be a competent three shooter. He shot 32.7% last season which was a percentage point better than CF. Selden shot 32.8% ... literally the same as Mason. I think both Mason and Selden will be 5% improved. I just have no idea how Graham and Oubre will react. As others have observed, particularly regarding Oubre, their competence behind the arc will tell the story.

The other key is the dreaded quick hook. If CF gets on the floor and misses his first two attempts, Self has to resist the urge that seems encoded in his DNA. Let the shooters shoot. Miss two, hit three in a row. Miss four. Make four of five. That's how it works. Embrace it and reap the rewards.

Here is my biggest concern -- that Oubre can't hit the three. That could throw a big anchor around our offense. Seems like Oubre will contribute other positives. We need the threes.

A couple other rotation related comments by Self over that last few days that I'm sure many have seen:

1) Self said that Mason, Ellis, and Selden were the three best players.

2) Mason stood out because of his scoring ability.

3) Graham could be the "starter" by midseason or before.

4) Self was "non-committal" as to whether Greene would factor into the rotation, according to Rustin Dodd/KC Star.

5) Self said his perimeter rotation would 5, or "6 at times."

6) Self said "how we start the season, I guarantee it, won't be how we finish it."

All support @jaybate-1.0's rotation inference on the perimeter.

In the post, though, I noticed @jaybate-1.0 left out our energy man Traylor. Does Mickelson really displace Traylor?

Do we remember what Self said during the summer about playing small?

“Your deepest position is wing, so I could see one of our wings being a 4-man and playing real small, which I think would be really hard to guard,” Self said. “I just don’t know if we could guard anybody.”

The last sentence is why this is really fantasy. Self is a defensive coach. That comes first. I think the only guy that could match up with a four is Oubre, given his length. But Self will see that as a significant disadvantage.

We'll be chuckling about this stuff in two months.

@drgnslayr I had hours and hours of fun and memories with mine when they were young with a little breakawy kids hoop in our dining room (converted to a play room). Some of the best fun were games of horse, double banks off the wall and ceiling. Wish they were young again .. enjoy every minute.

@jaybate-1.0 You said, "But then you could be wrong, too." I'm shocked. I know @Crimsonorblue22 is too. I must retreat. The last word is yours. Good discussion all the way around.

I have pondered how I might respond to @jaybate-1.0's suggestion that ball handling is really not that important -- "dribbling is for suckers" was the soon to be infamous quote.

I will look at this from an opposing coach's perspective. Wayne Selden is Kansas' point guard. I'm coaching the opposing team.

First, I put my quickest guard on Selden. I don't worry about supposed size disadvantage. Self doesn't post up his point guards. I instruct my quick defender to make Selden's life hell. Pick him up every and anywhere. Why? Because he's a plodder with the ball, and his handles are loose. I suggest a few focus points. When Wayne moves to his right, front him and turn him. Left hand is weaker. This applies to many PGs, but Wayne's left hand is much more vulnerable because his overall skill level is lower dribbling the ball. Thus his left hand is much weaker than the average PG's off hand. Next, because he is a poor dribbler, his ability to protect the ball is an issue -- the ability to go behind his back or between his legs to change directions is limited. This is critical. Use of those two moves, and in combination, can define point guards at this level. Therefore, as he changes direction, right to left, look for the tip steal. He'll likely move the ball in front of his body as the basic cross over is all he can reliably do. Finally, again because his ability to go behind back/between legs is limited, be ready for Selden to turn his back. This pivot move is common, and useful periodically, but is evidence of weakness when other options are unavailable. When he is dribbling right handed and turns, he'll move the ball to his left hand .. that's the tip steal opportunity. Because of the quickness advantage, we'll have time to recover.

Second, because Selden's passing ability in pressure situations is not stellar, as demonstrated by last year's balls in the front row, we'll select certain opportunities to flash trap Selden. Selden can't dribble to beat the trap anywhere on the court, and he's not quick enough to bolt with the ball when he sees it. One time in particular where he'll be very vulnerable is on the wing in the back court after a missed basket. Kansas likes to pass to the free throw line extended after the board. We'll be ready. Poor ball handlers are susceptible to panicking when when the flow is going down the court, backs to the point guard. Guys aren't coming to the ball. But we'll look for trap opportunities everywhere.

Third, because of his poor ball handling and lack of PG experience, Selden will be less likely to be able to play and not think. Offense is much about rhythm. We want to destroy rhythm and make Kansas get deep in the shot clock. Therefore, we'll be attentive to taking away the entry pass to start the offense. This can apply even on resets deeper in the shot clock. Make Selden do something with the ball. If they back cut, let's see him make that pass with a dude in his face. We can over commit and get the offense out of rhythm. With a true point guard, we can't do that .. we have to worry about being broken down off the dribble, and then the ball delivered off the dribble. That is, the PG can simply blow by to the hoop and create. We have never seen Selden do this. Because we have our quickest guy guarding Selden, this is effectively eliminated. We aren't threatened off the dribble, which changes the dynamic.

Fourth, I press with different looks, trap spots, and variations -- alternatively to having my defender pressure Selden one on one. We mix it up. Most likely, my team has less talent than Kansas. I need a game changer. So we press. Having a poor ball handler makes my job easier. It also creates more risk for Kansas. Coach Self explained why he doesn't press. He said that a team with good ball handlers wants to be pressed. That's because they can break the press. What we saw in 2013-14 with Kansas, even with one ball handler on the court (Tharpe), teams made KU slow to a crawl by employing a press. KU had to pass, spot to spot. Now, KU has Selden at PG. He was KU's worst guard against the press last season.

Dribbling is for suckers .. uh, no. This game is dictated by ball handling. Ball handling opens a world of possibilities to every player possessing the skill. Ball handling is the one singular skill that a team cannot survive without. And a team that discounts its value is destined for failure.

It is exactly why coach Self has noted that we need more "ball handling and play making." Ball handling and play making go hand in hand, but you can have the former without the latter ... but rarely can you have the latter without the former. The ball handling puts you in the position to make plays. Selden's strengths are not found in either category. He is, as Self said, a "big wing." Can we simply permit Selden to be the biggest and baddest big wing he can be? I'm good with that.

@jaybate-1.0 Dribbling is for suckers? I am running out the door -- but while @jaybate-1.0 being so completely wrong is an odd occurrence, much like the Royals advancing to the World Series, it can happen. This be it. Can't let this one pass.

@nuleafjhawk That's funny ...

Well, @KULA is dead right. So right that I could stop right now.

Wayne simply can't dribble the ball well enough to play the point.

This fact cannot be underestimated or ignored. The ability of a point guard to handle the ball is the most important skill set, bar none, of a point guard.

I recall sitting near courtside for a KU game -- the defender was all over TT as he brought the ball up the court, another was closing, and he delivered a pinpoint pass down to the corner to Reed, who shot a three. I told the guy I was with that what he saw, is the essence of point guard ball handling. Cool, sure handed.

I have said this many times, but if Wayne last season could not handle the ball in a basic press where he was the 2 guard, how in God's green earth could he play D-1 point guard? Self moved Selden to the 3 spot in the press, and moved Wiggins (no ball hander deluxe himself) to the 2 in the press.

Tight handles is the term. It's a disqualifier. To play D-1 point guard, it's a requirement.

Think of it this way. Imagine TT in your face as you try to bring the ball up the court. Quick, wingspan, harassing .. ugh.

Look, I know it's sexy to want Wayne to play the point. I'd love a 6'5" guy there too. But it isn't reality. It's much like Perry Ellis at the 3. It sounds nice -- until you see it in action.

Now here's the clincher -- playmaking. Self made this argument for me. If Self wants to get two smaller guards on the floor for more playmaking, who is that an indictment of? Right, it's Selden. Selden was the two last season. If Selden was even a hint of a playmaker, why that hyper-focus in the offseason?

Here's a pile on -- Self has said that we played last season with a point guard and "two big wings." Who were those two big wings? Right, Selden was one of them.

Personally, though, the playmaking is the next hurdle. You don't even get out of the blocks if you can't handle the ball sufficiently enough to be a D-1 point guard. And Selden, based on what we saw last season, doesn't even get in the blocks to start the race.

Ok, let me ask this ... If the game is chaotic. Mason has some TT moments where the ball flies every which way. Graham is tentative and act like a freshman. What does coach Self do?

Enter CF. If you needed things settled down, needed to stabilize things, what player on this team do you trust more to do that?

One thing we know about coach Self is that he does like security blankets here and there. He doesn't mind risk at the point (see TT), and values playmaking. But you never know how things work out.

I agree with @KansasComet in that I think that if he were simply allowed to play, his three point percentage would go up. He's obviously a 40% three shooter (at least I think that). But to @ralster's point, Brannen Greene is likely as well.

Just when we think there is no way, there becomes a way. Graham twists an ankle, Mason decides to skip class, Oubre dislocates his shoulder, Selden borrows Marcus' BB gun. You never know.

Heck, by March, we might wonder how we could get along without him.

@ralster: Solid post. You said, "I am surprised Self recruited CF to this playstyle, and this sysyem's requirements. He is most definitely NOT a pass-first PG like 6ft 160# A.Miles, nor is he a penetrating-quick guy like Sherron, Mason, or Tyshawn. And there is no game similarity to 6'1, 200# RussRob."

Me too. I'm quite sure there is an archive post of mine where I made a similar observation as well. Mine came after CF committed, Self said very specifically that he needed to sign a "point guard." That told me that Self did not think CF was a point guard. And with that, he was a wildly undersized 2 guard.

But basketball players are basketball players. Size, shape, etc. If you're a player, you can play. That is another concern for me with CF. Self just commented about how CF needed to be a player, and not just a shooter.

Lots of logical thoughts that say CF might get the short end of the stick. Players sometimes overcome logic. We'll see if he's a player.

I've mentioned this a few times, but damn, wouldn't it have been nice to have Black for four seasons?

I haven't found a link yet with the full scrimmage, but here's one with some good highlights.

@JayHawkFanToo I agree -- the way things work out, Greene could be a starter by the end of the year. Injuries, attitude, suspensions, great performances. Lots of time.