After the last two games, teams will have to think twice about sending KU to the FT line at the end of the game. A nice change from previous years.
JayHawkFanToo
13427 posts
I agree. The refereeing was pretty bad; I can't believe they called a foul on Lucas (his 5th) when it should have been a flagrant on Smith. They could not even get the ball over the backboard call right even after looking at the replay that clearly showed it went out off the GU player and they called a jump ball instead.
Oh well, all is well that ends well...
Your outta your depth. You'll have to trust me on this. :grinning: :frowning:
You are right, I am not used to the shallow end, that is for little kids and old farts...your kind of depth.
And...???
I did not say you could not be successful playing zone, did I?
You just can't help yourself...can you?
I will take KU and 2 points...
It's like a nightmare, isn't it? It just keeps getting worse and worse. - Grady Season, The color of money.
BTW, Lawrence Welk is your generation, not mine.
I have to respectfully disagree with you. We watch the UK-Louisville primarily because both are top ranked teams and the rivalry play mostly to the regional audience. North Carolina plays Duke, Wake Forest and NC State, all same state teams and conference rivals but do we watch all these games? No, we watch UNC-Duke because they are usually highly ranked teams and the rivalry usually appeals to the regional audience, the others we usually ignore unless there is nothing else on TV. At one time when NC State was powerhouse, their games had a national audience...because...they were top teams and the rivalry part , once again was restricted to the regional/conference/state audience and the rest of the country couldn't care less; once NC Stae dropped from the top ranks, nobody outside the region really watches that game anymore.
If we play WSU, the game would have bigger audience if WSU proves that it is a top tier team for a lot longer than a couple of years; otherwise, the only people that would care are Kansans. KU pays a lot of money to teams that come to AFH with not return game.. Home and home series have a very low (if any) payout since the payment is the return game. KU makes more money playing The Little Sister of the Poor at AFH with no return game at their "church/gym/social activities center" than it makes playing WSU in a home and home series or even a the Sprint Center. Just about every game KU plays on the road is a home and home series; a lot of the non-con games that KU plays at home are home only with no return game. It's all about the money.
You have to consider that games played at the Sprint Center are not split two ways between the participating teams, there are split 3 ways with Sprint Center getting the lions share of the box office. When KU plays ta AFH it does not pay much for the use of the facility but when it plays at Sprint Center basically has to pay for rent/operation of the joint. The City of Kansas City pays close to $14M per year just for the bonds used to build the arena. If you factor about 140 events per year, that is one very 2-3 days, every event has to contribute $100k just to pay the bonds, and it does not even include the operating cost of the arena. You can see why they have to take a big cut from the pie. KU makes about one third playing at Sprint Center that it makes playing at home.
The payouts for some bowl games have gone up dramatically over the last few years; more than I imagined. The payout for the playoff bowls are huge. On the other hand, the payout for the smaller bowls might not even cover the school's expenses.
Here is a link ↗ to each bowl payout.
Be careful with what you wish...I keep getting deeper into your head, aren't I?
In the mean time have fun with this...
Coach Self has indicated many times, and I believe most top coaches agree, that of you have the right players, the man to man defense is much better that zone, which is used when you either don't have the talent, or depth since it requires less physical effort. Some coaches use the zone as a way to give players a rest during the game.
KU has always ranked near the top in defense year in and year out, so obviously Coach Self is doing something right. As the expression goes...you play to your strengths...and KU's strength is and has always been (under Self) tough man to man defense. Now, I would not mind KU playing a little zone here and there just to confuse the opponent but why change something that works? BTW, last year was an unusual year when the new contact rules inordinately penalized teams that played tough man to man defense, such as KU, and yet KU still finished ranked in the top two in defense in the conference. If you have been watching KU you have seen how the defense is gradually getting better and better, even against teams like UK, where the defense was not great but not bad either (only second game of the season) and the main problem was the offense. who could not score. Just my opinion and I could be wrong
The payout does not work quite that way. The money that is divvied up by the conference members is the money left AFTER the participating school deducts expenses. When you consider that Bowls are basically junkets, the majority of the Bowl payoff is used by the school attending and not as much is left to divide, particularly with the smaller bowls. If I remember correctly, KU used up just about the entire payout when it went to the Orange Bowl. Big programs that will take 200-300 people in chartered jets and will stay at top hotels for several day will use up the money in a hurry.
The main benefit of the major bowls is exposure for the team and conference; a huge tool in recruiting.
Congrats. Grandchildren are a lot more fun that children, all the fun and no responsibility; you spoil them and then you send them home to their parents..win-win. :)
The Big 12 Commissioner was in the Mike and Mike show on ESPN yesterday and indicated that a proposal has been submitted allowing conferences with less than 12 teams to have a Championship game. He also indicated that it will consider expanding to 12 teams. The Big 12 will not disband any time soon as it is very profitable and the schools get more money than just about every other conference and the new upcoming contract should make the payout even better. I personally think 10 teams id the perfect number of teams for a conference; schools play all others schools in football plus 3 non-con games, and home and away games against every other school in basket ball with enough games left to built a solid non-con schedule.
There was a lot of controversy why a team that the previous week was ranked 3, wins huge and drops to #6. Yes, not having a Championship game hurt the Big 12, but had a couple of the top 4 teams lost on Saturday, the Big 12 could have ended up with 2 teams in the playoffs. Had this happened, and probabilities says that it will likely happen in the future, then the Big 12 would look like geniuses.
I was talking with a friend in Ohio and he said...the Big 12 should have told KSU to do what Wisconsin did for the Big 10, bend over and take one for the conference; with a close win, Ohio State does not jump to #4. I personally do not think Wisconsin would do that, but a conspiracy specialist, such as @jaybate might want to look into it. Also, the question was asked to the selection committee head...if the two Big 12 teams would have been Texas and Oklahoma, instead of Baylor and TCU, would the result have been different? Obviously he indicated that it would have not been any different but one has to wonder, don't you think?
I am not sure you understood what I said. Prince had talent not that different than what Snyder had and could not win because he reached, what in business is called the Peter's principle, and was way over his head. Mangino had marginal talent and was able to extract enough from them to have one of KU's best season ever. Mangino and Snyder are not the only coaches that can do this.
Now, if you look at KSU recruits, they are much better than what they used to get, a result of the program being recognized as a top tier program, not Alabama, OU, OSU, USC, Florida elite but top tier nonetheless. I believe KSU could have hired a much better coach than Prince but they sold themselves short. KU did pretty much the same thing when Mangino left; there were several well known coaches in the mix and instead KU ended up paying a lot of money for an inferior coach.
When Snyder retires, he will likely stay in as an adviser to make sure the program does not sink again and his legacy is in good hands.
I really have not seem them much this year, mostly read summaries of their games. I don't believe they use zone although in their situation it would make sense since it might keep Smith from chasing a mobile player and keep him parked around the basket.
Perhaps it would make sense to send a mobile big against him and have him pull to the outside; if Smith chases him, he will tire pretty quickly and if he doesn't then the wide open mid-range shot is available. If this works and KU starts scoring then they might switch to zone and KU would have to depend on the long range shooters to break the zone or the quick guards to penetrate and either score or kick the ball out to open players. I am sure Coach Self will have the right plan.
Drake? I think we should get Diddy instead...he just kicked Drake's behind...
I don't have a problem with WSU at all and I hope they do well, just not as well as KU. The better they (and KSU) do, the better the state looks. Keep in mind that we are the only state with at least 2 Division I schools that has sent ALL teams to the NCAA for several years now, and hopefully will continue to do so.
Still laughing while I clean coffee from the keyboard...:)
This is from the link I posted above...
According to Sgt. Trent McKinley, public affairs officer for the Lawrence Police Department, police responded to The Cave at 1:53 a.m. Sunday. Officers saw several individuals fighting outside, McKinley said, including some who went back into the bar after seeing police arrive.
“Officers observed one individual on the ground motionless, get kicked in the head by another individual,” McKinley said in a release that did not name those arrested at the scene. “Officers handcuffed that suspect and placed him in a patrol car as other officers tended to the injured subject on the ground.”
While officers attempted to identify other victims, suspects and witnesses, McKinley said, “several individuals interfered with the performance of officers’ duties in questioning suspects as others interfered with arrests or attempted to incite the crowd.”
Four arrests were made, McKinley said, adding that the incident was still under investigation.
Coleman was arrested on suspicion of battery, according to the Douglas County Booking Log, while Traylor was arrested on suspicion of interfering with the duties of a police officer. Each posted $100 bond.
This article actually quotes a police spokesman so it is as close to the actual events as we can get. From the description, it sounds like Coleman was the one doing the kicking since he was the only one arrested on suspicion of battery. In these circumstances, the first thing police officers are trained to do is to get the situation under control to prevent an escalation and then take down statements from witnesses. Chances are that Traylor tried to talk/argue to/with the officers while Coleman was being arrested, was warned several times to stand back, which is standard police operating procedure under those circumstances, he did not and was arrested for interfering with the police.
Smith had two flagrant fouls called against him for leading with the elbow during the Florida game. Like @jaybate-1.0 said, have him chase his player on defense and stand your ground and draw fouls when he tries to drive on offense; at 350 pounds his endurance/stamina cannot be that good.
You wrote:
Could've of should've but didn't. Just because Kstate is winning games these days doesn't mean they can just plug in another coach and not miss a beat.
I did not mentioned any of those words: in fact I said quite the opposite. KSU tried to plug in an incompetent coach and the program sank.
What I said was " if KSU can find a good coach, there is no reason why KSU cannot maintain the current level." which I maintain is true. Maybe our definition of what constitutes a good coach is different: Prince was not a good coach any more than Gill was. With the current state of the program. KSU should be able to attract quality coaches and not unknowns trying to make a name for themselves.
The players have always been very respectful of KU in interviews and also at games they attended; they both played in St. Louis last year in the NCAA.
This team seem to like doing it the hard way though...
You forgot...
11 - Scrolling through one of his long post on your cell phone now uses only 20% of the battery life instead of the usual 30%.
(Note: half fiction-half truth. No malice.)
Josh Smith used to play at UCLA and has played KU twice. In 2010 he had good game with 17 points and 1e rebounds in the game that KU won at AFH with a last second free throw by Mario Little. The next year KU beat UCLA handily in Maui and Smith had 1 point and 1 rebound in 13 minutes of play. H e was playing at 305 pounds back then an got easily winded He transferred to Georgetown and he is now playing at 350 pounds. While he is surprisingly athletic, he can't be very mobile at that weight and his endurance in fast paced game against mobile players could be suspect as well.
He is famous for air-balling balling this ↗ layup.
The KSU football program did not get worse just because Snyder left, it went down because Prince was a completely incompetent coach that was way over his head, much like Gill at KU. When it is time for Snyder to retire, if KSU can find a good coach, there is no reason why KSU cannot maintain the current level.
KU is now #10 and WSU #11 in both polls.
You are entitled to think any way you want.
Coach Self has said before that KU makes at least $600K on every home game, $200K-$250K for games at Sprint Center and pretty much nothing at the away games of a home and home series since the payment is the return game, and KU has to pay the travel expenses including the charter jet it uses. KU plays one game a year at the Sprint Center for the same reason it plays a game in Colorado, to allow the local fan base watch the team live. There is zero financial advantage playing away from AFH.
It is hard to argue with the success Snyder has had. He turned what was called the worst football program in America into a program that is competitive year in and year out and he has done it the right way. in 1989, Sports Illustrated published an article about Kansas State football entitled "Futility U," which labeled the school "America's most hapless team." In his 23 years as HC at KSU he has taken the team to 16 Bowls and it was eligible a couple of other years but there were not enough bowls back them; keep in mind that his first Bowl was on his fifth year as HC and once he had laid the foundation for the program
Before we aspire to be Alabama or Florida or USC or Ohio State, let's try to be program, with a winning season, for a change, and go from there. I know @ralster does not feel the Snyder model is the model we should follow and my question is...how have the other models worked for KU so far? Other than a couple of decent years under Mangino, the programs has been an abysmal failure. Let's keep in mind that those decent couple of year under Mangino are the baseline at KSU. Would I trade the KU program of the last 25 years for KSU's program of the same period? Absolutely.
This is from his profile
Snyder's first tenure at Kansas State is still considered one of the most successful rebuilding projects in collegiate history. In recognition of his rebuilding work, Hall of Fame football coach Barry Switzer once stated, "He's not the coach of the year, he's not the coach of the decade, he's the coach of the century."
I sincerely hope that Beaty can be as successful at KU as Snyder has been at KSU.
That is an old post. He tried to explain but the explanation was as bad as the post. Here is the most recent post...
The time frame (Dec. 6) would seem to indicate he is equating getting arrested with becoming a "real" man or at least.that is the first thing that comes to mind. I hope this is not the case.
Yes, we play in the Bahamas and Hawaii and Canada and Switzerland and France, why? Because it helps recruiting big time. If you give recruits an option of playing in the Bahamas or Wichita. which one do you think they will pick? All big time programs do it and not doing it would place KU at a disadvantage. Do we need luxurious new digs for the basketball program? No, but we do it because we have to keep up with the other eliet programs.
Yes, KU also played in North Dakota because it was the home of Jeff Bosche and in California where Drew Gooden came from...this was done to attract recruits although with the OADs, promising them a trip to their home state may no longer work and I don't believe it is done anymore.
Of course it is relevant that Louisville has a good basketball history, without it it is just another KU-KSU game with a local audience. Many of the North Carolina teams play each other since many are in the ACC and also Coach Williams makes it a point to play small state schools, but how many of those do we watch? Duke and North Carolina because they are top programs and not because they have an intra-state rivalry, that is of interest only to the people of North Carolina in the same way that a KU-KSU rivalry is of interest only to the people of Kansas.
Coach Williams is a fan of small towns (he grew up in one) and small schools and started playing local small schools as a way of helping them. Pittsburgh State, Emporia State, Fort Hayes, Washburn get more money from one game at AFH than they collect the entire year playing at home, it is the biggest boon to their budget, plus they can use the trip to the Cathedral of basketball as a recruiting tool. I think we can agree that the other two major schools in the state, KSU and WSU are not in the same situation.
I am aware that every other year a legislator from the Wichita area introduces legislation to force KU (and KSU) to play WSU; it goes nowhere, because all KU has to do is say that in exchange it will no longer play the smaller schools and the legislation will never pass. This has been going on ever since I remember and I have lived in the state for over 36 years. Also, the legislature does not control the schools, the Board of Regents does and they have no intention of upsetting the applecart.
I agree. UK and Kentucky are both top tier programs with a long traditions, National Championships, consistent top 10 ranking and more than a regional following. UK is is currently considered the top basketball program and Louisville the most valuable program (Forbes) .
Anyone who thinks a KU-WSU or KU-MU would get national attention is clearly way, way overestimating. Neither MU nor WSU have a national following in basketball; MU is a perennial underachiever and WSU (so far) a flash in the pan mid-major. A KU-WSU game would be watched by KU and WSU fans and a few KSU fans hoping to see KU lose. A KU-MU game would have an even smaller audience since most MU fans are now football fans.
KU plays lesser state team every year. If I recall correctly KU plays 2 pre-season games against two much smaller teams every year, Washburn and Emporia this particular season; a programs that was started by Coach Williams and kept by Coach Self. KU also play another state program, KSU, at least twice every year and I can guarantee that outside the region the game does not create any interest; a game against WSU would create even less interest most years.
Yes, UNC plays Davidson and UK plays Eastern Kentucky and again, the audience for those games is largely regional; I personally watch when they play other elite programs but skip the games you mentioned. You might think the reason Coach Self gave are invalid, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but don't make it sound like yours is the only one that is correct. Coach Self has access to a lot more information (financial, marketing, PR) than either one of us have and I am sure the decision is not made uniquely by him in a vacuum but only after carefully weighing all the options and in consultation with Athletic Department personnel. Nowadays, KU is more than an Athletic program, it is also a "brand" that produces a huge income to the Athletic Department and needs to be protected and properly marketed.
We all know that you don't care much for Coach Self, but the "chicken" part is childish, petty and unnecessary. I am sure you were trying to make a point but I would like to think you could have found a better way.
Agreed. Coaches have their hands full with their own programs and have little time for any thing else other than the occasional appearance at a game or Athletic Department activities. At KU, most football coaches regularly attend basketball games (they want to know what winner looks like) but Coach Self will only occasionally attend a football game...can't say I blame him.
I have never understood the reason why people resist arrest or interfere with the police; it is a losing situation since they will get more officers involved and the charges will just increase. I have never heard of anyone getting off by resisting arrest.
As you know, AFH and Duke's Cameron Indoor stadium have always been ranked 1 and 2 and with "Dukie" Vitale calling the game, it is not surprising they wanted to de-emphasize how great AFH really is.
Here is a link ↗ to a recent ranking by 12 sports writers. Nine have AFH as #1, 2 have it as #2 and one has it as #4. Guess who had KU as #4? MU graduate Pat Forde; I guess he has mellowed some because on a previous poll a few years ago, he was the only one that did not have AFH in his list and he was universally ridiculed, but then...what can you expect from a MU graduate?
There were two instance where the comment was allegedly made, one was was on a luncheon with the Chamber of Commerce with no press and somebody allegedly captured with a cell phone although it was never proven to be true. The second was at a rally after winning the 2011 NIT Championship when he read a sign someone in the audience had. Here is the link...
I purposefully did not post it as a link because I don't want big YouTube window with WSU rally on the screen so you will have to cut and paste and form your own opinion. Coaches from elite programs can be very gracious and they get the press anyway; coaches from mid-majors do not get the press unless they are provocative. That comment made him popular with his fan base which it is what he is supposed to do, but not popular with KU fans who dislike him regardless. I personally don't see it as a big deal.
It is really not that simply and yet it is not that complicated.
WSU is on great streak in the last couple of years, no doubt they have have had better seasons than KU (Final Four and the streak). Marshall is doing what he need to do to get his team exposure and respect. I don't believe the hype that he hates KU, he is simply doing what is expected of him and what will make his fan base happy. I would be curious to know what Self an Weber say about WSU in private, it would not surprise me that is similar to what Marshall said in what he thought was a private moment. I don't care one way or another about WSU, but a state team, I want them to win when they play anyone else other than KU. Partisanship aside, Marshall is a seriously good coach and WSU is a solid team.
As far as playing them. Coach Self has made it very clear that KU makes the most money when it plays at home and even at Sprint Center, the money is less than half of what KU makes at AFH. I know that publicly WSU has said that they would play KU at a neutral side, but what I understand they really want is home and home games at AFH and Wichita. There is no way KU is going to give up a home game (and the corresponding income) every other year just to placate WSU fans.
Let's face it, the audience for a KU-WSU is purely regional and more specifically limited to the state of Kansas, while games with teams such as Utah command a bigger audience including PAC 12 country; it is really a no-brainer. Win or lose, KU gets no recruiting advantage in the state by playing WSU; all the top state players, including Frankamp, dream of playing at KU and AFH, not Wichita. KU gets considerably more exposure playing a team from another conference, preferably from a hotbed basketball state. WSU, on the other hand gets a huge boost by playing KU as it puts it in the same platform with an elite conference team rather than the pedestrian audience it gets while playing Missouri Valley teams.
In short, KU has nothing to gain by playing WSU and a lot to lose if WSU wins; on the other hand, win or lose, WSU has nothing to lose and everything to gain by playing KU. I really can understand why Self prefers not to play them.
It was group of student that would unfurl it after each of KU patented runs. Maybe they have graduated but it sure seemed appropriate at the time...and yesterday...
Here is a better conspiracy theory for you. Yesterday, while watching the game, AFH did not seem nearly as loud as it has on the past and I was wondering if the crowd was taken out of the game pretty early. Today, A friend posted a video of AFH taken during the game and it seemed every bit as loud as before. Did ESPN digitally lowered the volume of the crowd for the broadcast? Inquiring minds want to know.
I don't think is the size that is bothering Svi; after all he has been playing against grown men in the Euro Leagues and Coach Self has said that much. I think the main problem is speed, since the American game is faster and not as deliberate as the European game.
Texas will be a handful and I don't agree at all that all their bigs are slow; they are very, very capable and a couple can actually shoot from the outside. Splitting with them might be the best we can expect. The conference is tough from top to bottom; if a team can go 14-4 it will likely win the conference and I would not be surprised to see a 13-5 or even 12-6 record win the conference this season. KU will really have to earn the title this year.
In many ways, the first half was worse that he second half against UK, since KU was playing a team not even close in talent to UK and playing at AFH where these things are not supposed to happen.
In the last 7 minutes of the game KU scored 21 points and 17 came from the free throw line; in that time Selden and Ellis had 1 FG a piece, the last with 3 and half minute left. Basically from the time KU got within 3, Florida's strategy was to foul and send KU to the line; it backfired big time.
KSU loss was a disappointment; too many mistakes and even Foster's 3-point barrage a the end of the game was not enough.
OSU got spanked by a very average South Carolina team, Forte went 1-14...that is right, smurf on steroid went 1 of 14 from the field. Why is it that he doesn't shoot like this against KU?
I respect Isaiah Thomas as player but I never really cared for him. He struck me as player with a chip on his shoulder and always trying to get into fights (Rondo is that way too); perhaps that was part of playing for Detroit. As good as he was on the court, he was terrible as a coach and manager and widely disliked by other NBA players. He never got over the attention Jordan and Bird got and never stopped to think they got the good press because they were likeable, at least in public, while he relished and never got over the idea of being a Detroit "bad boy."
He also sucked as college coach...