@Blown I think she just get's a little too much credit from time to time. But this year, perhaps, she hasn't received enough credit.
Kcmatt7
11050 posts
@justanotherfan KU fans have been patient. It's Beaty's time to reward us for that. As far as recruiting, a weak Fr. class this year is no biggie if he somehow puts together a 5 win team and can put together a great class the following season.
I am usually pretty critical of her, but bravo! She has earned every penny this season. Knock on wood, but had we lost a single player this season, it was all over. There was a TON of pressure on her to keep everyone healthy this year. And she delivered!
@HighEliteMajor I'm definitely in your camp that says the harm caused to the NCAA is questionable. I get your point that just because they have rules doesn't mean that you or I should have to follow them. But these guys also can't have it both ways. They can't purposely hide payments to players so that they can benefit from the platform the NCAA provides the athlete AND not follow their rules. I guess I agree that the NCAA definitely has a civil case , but perhaps not a criminal one. So the bribery charges might not stick.
However, the fraud charge I can't see as anything but criminal. Creating false documentation is definitely fraud. There are several people harmed from the fraud and there could be more charges than probably have been filed. Adidas was "harmed" because a "rogue" employee was submitting false documentation and basically "stealing" from the company. Shareholders were harmed because of this concealment. Someone, or multiple people, in the accounting department at Adidas may have lost their job because of this. Even if they didn't actually deserve to. So, there is criminal "harm" from the fraud.
I don't think any of these men should go to prison. They were all under pressure to deliver in their jobs. They weren't the only ones doing it. It became a culture, and they were just the ones who got caught so far.
Mostly though, I wish we weren't talking about the FBI being involved in College basketball lol. It is a major waste of government resources. And considering players victims in this scheme is almost laughable. If anything, greedy parents are the ones who are probably as guilty as anyone in this scenario.
mayjay said:
@Kcmatt7 This counts only the number of consecutive polls we are in, and includes the weeks they publish the AP poll (the one I am using). I don't know if preseason is included. Between seasons doesn't count because no polling is done.
Thanks! Bill gets through this FBI thing, wins a couple of more Championships and he may actually go down as the GOAT.
@BeddieKU23 I'm confident the good guys will end up right where they are supposed to come season's end.
@mayjay How does that work? Is that only during the season? Or will we be 52 weeks more this time next year?
I would move on from JW if I was Washington. All this has proven is that he still can't shoot well enough to stretch the floor and he inhibits everyone else who seems to gel better together.
They could probably trade him for an absolutely monster haul too. I'm sure that someone in the top 10 would trade them 2 1st rounders and a decent player for JW.
But, I am glad to see Oubre stay in the league. His next contract will likely overpay him.Which is fantastic.
@justanotherfan Peter's entire package is what got him shipped off. Comparing him to other players isn't helping your argument.
If anything, it says that the Chiefs will put up with a lot of shit. And Peters still crossed the line.
@JayHawkFanToo It's starting to settle in at this point. It is down to around 8 teams that we would play in the 2nd round at this point. Most teams probably only have 3 games left?
@JayHawkFanToo We definitely don't do ourselves any favors or attempt to cover up our severe deficiencies though. We have tiny linemen, so pass blocking isn't going to be a strength. But, a lot of zone read and misdirection and speed options and stretch plays will then set up play action and roll-outs so our line doesn't have to be perfect.
Probably this teams biggest problem is coaches that aren't self-aware. You can call the perfect play, but if you don't have players that can execute it, it isn't the perfect play.
@BigBad Free. And they instituted the OAD rule so that the bust potential was lower. Guys like Cliff would have made millions.
And, as you said, the exposure from colleges is a HUGE selling point for the NBA.
Top that off with the cost to run a developmental league. How much do you pay a 12 year old? How much do you pay a late blooming 16 year old? Blooming 18 year old? Who decides what kids go to what team? Are you putting them up in multimillion dollar condos? Are you feeding them? Paying world-class trainers hundreds of thousands to train them? Building hundred-million dollar complexes for them? Putting them in front of a crowd to develop their marketability?
There have been dozens of attempted leagues to steal away top recruits and pay them. None of them have worked because what colleges offer is still better. And Owners aren't going to spend a fortune to compete with that when, right now, it is free.
CBS has the same. Rest of our CBS bracket I would like a lot though.
@BShark If you are going to play such a bland style of air raid, definitely.
Our playcalling is outrageously boring. Not a lot of motion. We don't move the runningback around. There is no misdirection.
They need to find an old Chip Kelly assistant and spark the offense just a little bit.
I will have an issue with both Xavier and Nova as #1 seeds. KU winning the XII outright, and putting up an insane quadrant 1 record compared to everyone else should earn them the #1 seed in the Midwest over Xavier, providing Xavier doesn't win out.
And two of them were road games. Team sheet-wise, they are still a #1 seed. No issues yet. But, if they drop another game and then lose in the Conference Tournament, I think they should drop to a 2 seed.
https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/Stats%20Library/Feb.%2025,%202018%20Nitty%20Gritty.pdf ↗
@BShark Hull will not have a problem getting a D1 gig after showing off what he can do in Louisiana.
And I agree with the staff. I just don't think of anyone as a rising star or an impressive offensive/defensive mind. Of course, playcalling is damn near impossible when your receivers and lineman are undersized or basically your entire secondary graduates in a league where everyone but you averages 30+ points per game.
I'm really hoping for a Purdue type of surprise this year... I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the offseason development of our offensive line will be the #1 factor in how well this season goes. I'm hoping to hear most of those guys added 20lbs of muscle.
@BShark If we could see any on field success AND could sell PT to boot, I think we could really steal a handful of guys out of Louisiana every season.
@HighEliteMajor The wire just refers to the way payments were made or the conspiracy was contrived. Wire Fraud is a pretty broad term, it just basically covers any use of electronics at this point.
However, it is still fraud. These men created fake purchase orders and invoices to cover up the payments.That is fraud 101. Fraud is fraud is fraud. They just very clearly can get Wire Fraud charges to stick being as how they clearly committed fraud and clearly conspired through the internet and wire transfers.
This was fraud. Completely exclusive of whether or not bribing players to sign with you after college is illegal or not. These men concealed payments for personal gain. Fraud. It is literally textbook fraud when you read through it.
"Moreover, because the payments to the family of Player-10 were both in violation of NCAA rules and illegal, they were disguised by GATTO, CODE, DAWKINS, and SOOD using fake purchase orders, invoices and related documents to make them appear to be payments from Company-1 to CODE’s company. As CODE explained to DAWKINS, while such payments are sometimes made “off the books,” for this particular payment, GATTO and CODE had identified it to Company-1 as “as a payment to my team, to my organization, so it’s on the books, [but] it’s not on the books for what it’s actually for.” Indeed, the money, once allocated by Company-1, was funneled back to DAWKINS to use to pay the father of Player-10 in cash."
I don't know any way to spin that where fraud wasn't committed by at least those 4 men.
@justanotherfan I'm not saying that they should make players go to college for longer. I'm saying they need to take them right out of HS like they used to. That is the cheaper fix. That is the process that created more HOF players than the current system.
I'm not arguing with you that college doesn't prep players as well as another system might. But, I do not believe that the benefit of changing the system outweighs the cost in the eyes of the owners.
HighEliteMajor said:
@mayjay You said, "Paying someone to commit fraud on his employer for the purpose of achieving your own economic gain is criminal. Making an agreement to do so and setting up a network to do it is conspiracy."
Let's agree on that premise.
However, you have completely avoided my main point -- that the fraud committed is premised upon the violation of the alleged victim's internal and self created organizational rules.
This is completely different than other scenarios that fit your statement. We can envision Google paying a Yahoo employee for proprietary information, or Lockheed Martin paying a Northrup employee to sabotage a milling machine, or Nike paying an Adidas employee for Adidas' marketing plan. I get that. This is not a classic under the table payment to get a contract. Or even defrauding a university by providing fake test scores for entering students (in such an instance, a university is not getting the student they thought they might be getting).
But even in the last scenario with the student, you don't need anything else. It seems pretty clear that such a scheme amounts to fraud.
Here, the NCAA has set up internal, arbitrary rules of competition and eligibility. And, internally, it has varying and inconsistent methods of enforcement. The claimed "fraud" is claimed to be the paying a player or parent so that it creates possible ineligibility under the NCAA's internal rules.
Why should anyone in competition with another business be held to respect that other organization's arbitrary, internal rules?
Isn't this a shield to competition?
This is unprecedented. I'm not seeing anything that matches up here.
If they were paying people under the table, hiding payments, and lying "on the books" about payments, than it is fraud. If they tried to cover up any payments made, it is fraud.
If the books were clean and agents just blatantly paid players and then issued the proper tax forms for said payments, I see no evidence of a crime.
However, I would bet that the first item is what happened. Regardless of whether the act of paying a player or not is illegal has no baring on the act of fraud. At least from an accounting perspective, it is simply hiding something financially for personal or corporate gain. Which appears to have happened in this case.
You have to separate whether paying a player is illegal and whether fraud is committed. They are two separate things that do not rely on each other in this case. The question is, did Agents pay players and then conceal the payments for personal gain? The answer appears to be a yes.Therefore fraud was committed.
@BShark No doubt about that. Only two ways DB keeps his job IMO.
- 4 wins. Period. He gets 4 wins and he can stay. That would mean 2 wins against other P5 schools. Idc if they are Rutgers and Baylor. Just winning would be a good sign.
or
- 3 wins and we are within one score at some point in the 4th quarter of 5 other games. Really, just show that we are close to being able to compete.
@jayballer73 The 9th best Dual-Threat QB in the 2019 class.
@justanotherfan I just have a hard time seeing the NBA giving up a free developmental league.
It isn't like baseball where an NAIA guy can make the pros. So you don't have to cast a wide net.
Not to mention, there basically are NBA academies leading up to college. Almost all of these top 100 guys play for a prep school where they eat and breath basketball.
The dollars and cents just aren't there from what I can see. The more simple, cheaper fix is just getting rid of the OAD rule.
@BShark Still, to me, this is great news. Means he is still able to sell his vision for KU to solid recruits. Even with his name being on the chopping block. Perhaps they are going to pull a Mike Lee with him and somehow we just landed our starting QB for 2018? Hopeful optimism lol.
@KUSTEVE You're thinking too small if you are going with conspiracy theory.
If anything, this entire FBI investigation is a Kansas City Shuffle for something MUCH larger that has absolutely nothing to do with sports.
Good God I hope Beaty can win a few games this season. We will never be able to duplicate that Louisiana pipeline we currently have going for us. If the man can win some games and gain some more job security, I have absolutely no doubt he can bring in talent.
@KUSTEVE That would be a conspiracy on another level lol. Last nights game meant basically nothing. Would be different if that happened two weeks from now.
@BShark Really sucks the way it shook out. He would have played 20+ minutes a game I think had he stayed. Can't blame him though.
Someone is going to get an absolute bargain in the draft this year. DG is a glue man, alpha and warrior all in one. He will fit anywhere he ends up in the league.
@Hawk8086 Cal is clean. He already has two vacated final fours and would never do anything to risk that again.
It’s like girls continually getting back with their ex that cheats on them. “He’s changed! He won’t do it again, he promised.”
@BShark lol no joke. I do think they are going to be a nasty 4/5 seed that you don’t want to see.
Zags look like Thebes real deal again this season too. Play well all around.
Hard not to root for them too. Seems like they may be the cleanest program left in the top 10.
Duke looks like the best team in the country since they committed to a zone. Outzoned Boeheim today...
Mizery vs. UK. tough one to vote for. Should be a fun one to watch though.
@JayHawkFanToo because Ayton is playing today and Billy is in Bosnia? Lol.
Agree to disagree because I believe you don’t know much of the subject you’re trying to speak on.
@CRH107 the ones who get caught are always the ones that get comfortable and lazy. Just like any Ponzi scheme, Enron, or any other major fraud case. It’s because those who are covering it up normalize their actions to themselves and eventually become lazy. Clearly this is what happened to Miller.
Zona just needs to forfeit the rest of the season lol.
Jacobs gonna get KU a title. Dude is a winner
@KUSTEVE funny how one month can change things so drastically. He’s only an allegation away from putting him in the same class as joe pa
@truehawk93 FBI apparently chose them to be the ones who they trust to release the info
@Big-Clyde52 they are so screwed lol
@HighEliteMajor no more than Woodens should be...
@HighEliteMajor nah
The more I think about it, the more I think this is what is happening. The question as to why the FBI would be doing this keeps circling back. It has no logical explanation if it isn’t about money. These findings won’t even pay for the investigation. And in the whole scheme of things, it is basically victimless. Has to be other things at work.
Texas holding out Eric Davis. Only team that seems to not be denying it. Shaka earned a few points with me today...
@kjayhawks no
I'm just imagining the freaking Yahoo! editor and writers thinking they have this bombshell, and now the response across the country is mainly just people laughing at them lol.
this one had me crying.
@BShark That twitter account is fire today. Holy hell im laughing out loud at work right now and don't even care.
At least all the news today has made the day go by quickly.
Just still laughing that the "bomb" Yahoo was supposed to drop that could "take down programs and HOF coaches" appears to have been more like a tiny chink in a 6 foot thick lead door.
Honestly, the only thing I've seen from this that even peaks my interest is that Izzo seems far from the boy scout he has been made out to be.