🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@jayballer54 A lot of those kids are the fall back options for the KU's, UNC's and so on when they miss on top targets. The ones that are patient enough to wait until spring have a better chance of landing at a blue blood that's missed out on their top targets.

@jayballer54 Kids put schools like Kansas, UNC, UK, Duke, Louisville and other top programs to boost their own appeal to lesser programs and gain more offers from other P5 programs and top mid majors that rely on the sub 50 and sub 100 players to build their programs.

@mayjay Trolls that don't get the attention and reactions they seek don't stop being trolls, they just find a new place to be a troll.

@KUSTEVE This isn't someone entering my house though, it's an internet troll who craves attention and reactions. When trolls get neither, they eventually go away.

And if someone is dumb enough to enter my home without permission, they will be hearing a gun being loaded while being told to leave before something bad happens to them.

@Kcmatt7 Newsflash: College football is not the NFL and it takes different skill sets to be successful at each level. Look at Russell Wilson, he wasn't even good enough to win the starting job at NC State and yet he was good enough to win a Super Bowl.

Therefore, I DON'T CARE IF A KU QUARTERBACK IS SUCCESSFUL IN THE NFL. I care that a KU QB is successful at KU. KU will never be able to have the kind of talent to operate in manner you wish. You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first. KU has to find ways to win just like Baylor and OSU have and that's through finding great college QB's even if they don't have an NFL future.

You mentioned KU ended up with 9 players drafted off the Orange Bowl team in the years after the Orange Bowl. Consider that Alabama just had 10 players drafted in the 2017 NFL draft alone and still couldn't win a national title. They still got beat by the Air Raid and QB who could run. Do you Clemson fans care more about Watson being successful with the Texans or that he won a national title at Clemson? Do Kansas fans largely care that Todd Reesing never got a shot at the NFL? Hell no, we care that he won the Orange Bowl.

Do you know why so many programs run some kind of variation of the spread offense? It's because it exploits the fact that teams don't have NFL talent all over the field and we're even seeing those principles work their way to the NFL because of its ability create 1 on 1 match ups and spread the defenders out as much as possible. Throw in a mobile QB that probably doesn't have an NFL future, and you force defenses to spy the QB taking away another person to cover the receivers. This is why RG3, Tim Tebow, Johnny Manziel, and those types were so successful in college. They had big enough arms to stretch the field, but they were also mobile enough to force defenses to keep spying them which created more 1 on 1 match ups.

This what David Beaty is trying to build to because he knows KU is never going to outrecruit Texas or Oklahoma or ever have the talent that Alabama, FSU, USC, and those types of programs will always have. He has to exploit match ups and you do that by having a great college QB.

So please stop trying pretend that KU can be successful in college football by trying to build an NFL style roster because it's never going to happen. KU is going to be successful in college football by building a college style roster because a college style roster will be successful at college football.

That's not a bad schedule. Only 1 team didn't play in a postseason tournament last year and only 1 team finished with a losing record. Definitely not the hardest schedule they've ever had, but far from a weak schedule.

@KUSTEVE Why are you feeding it? That's what it lives for.

@Kcmatt7 KU's not getting 10 studs on offense other than the QB, that's a reality. When KSU is contending in the Big 12, it's the years they have a great QB like Colin Klein, Ell Roberson, or Michael Bishop. The years MAY doesn't have great QB play, they struggle quite a bit.

It's much easier to find one great athlete, stick him under center, and teach him how to read defenses at the college level than to have 10 great players and an average QB.

What turned Baylor and OSU into top tier Big 12 programs? It wasn't 10 great players and average QB play, it a was a great QB surrounded by average to slightly above average players and the supporting cast improved from there.

You coach HS football, great. Go look at a lot of non football factories at that level and notice who the QB is. It's almost always the best athlete on the team because that gives that team the best chance to win the most games possible.

@approxinfinity That was a freak accident and not a product of the practice style. Hell, Izzo has made players practice in football pads before to build toughness.

@Kcmatt7 QB's are huge in the success if CFB programs that aren't loaded with NFL talent at every position like Alabama. Baylor is the perfect example of this when they had RG3. The year he won the Heisman, I believe Baylor finished the year 8-5. Without RG3, that Baylor team finishes at or near the bottom of the Big 12.

Another reason a QB makes a difference is that one that can run forces defenses to spy him which takes away someone covering the receivers and creates more man coverage opportunities for the WR's. If the QB doesn't have great scrambling abilities, then a huge arm can force the safeties to play off the line much more frequently and open up the running game and short passing game more.

KU's QB issues of not having a good runner or someone who can throw a good deep ball has meant that opposing defenses could line up all 11 guys within 8 or so yards of the line and defend the running game and short passing game without worrying much about getting burned deep.

What KU has on offense this year is a QB who appears capable of throwing a good deep ball and forcing defenses to respect KU's deep game. This will open up the bubble and tunnel screens that we saw so much last year run with minimal success be more successful because now there's the threat that one of the Big 3 receivers can run a deep route with this combo and kill the defense.

KU has been a very good running team the past several years until last year, but couldn't score worth a damn because we had no QB to get the ball to receivers with any consistency. Part of that was the OLine with Crist and Heaps, but Cozart and Willis just had no accuracy and Stanley lacks the arm strength to hit deep throws.

This is how you build toughness for a team.

Don't see it. I'd take Robinson over Graham because of defense. I don't care about Robinson's offensive numbers because he wasn't asked to be a scorer. Robinson was a far superior defender than Graham will ever be and that's the advantage.

Newman has a chance to overtake Chalmers, but right now, I'd take Chalmers over Newman. Rush was a better wing than any option this year. Arthur as a sophomore is very likely going to be superior to freshman Preston and definitely better than Whitman. Azubuike is the one spot where I'll say the 2017-18 team has the advantage over 2008. 2008 also had a huge advantage over this team on the bench. This team has nothing close to Sherron or Sasha coming off the bench or a Cole Aldrich caliber player as a fringe rotation player.

KJ won AAC ROY? He only played 10 games as a freshman, wasn't it Dedric and his 16 and 9 that won ROY in '15-16?

Dedric is the prize here, KJ is a decent player, but not a star. KJ will be fighting Marcus Garrett for minutes in 2018-19 and trying to avoid being the odd man out in the rotation unless KJ moves to the 4 and becomes a stretch 4 for KU.

Best case scenario for KJ is 3rd option behind Vick and his brother.

@BShark Vick may not even start this season and even if he does, he'll likely be the 4th scoring option at best behind Newman, Graham, and Azubuike. I don't see him leaving early because he's not going to be a featured player this year for KU.

@BShark Why would you want to force out potentially the only senior on the 2018-19 team? Seems like a good way to ruin a potentially stacked 2019 class for KU.

@Kcmatt7 Not gonna be 2018 with the three replacements for the three outgoing seniors already on campus.

I don't think he will in 2017-18 because I don't see him getting the touches to put up the numbers to be a first team All-American this year. UA is likely going to be the third option this year behind Newman and Graham, so while I could see UA averaging a double-double, I think it would be much closer to something like 11 ppg and 10+ rpg, but I don't see him putting up T-Rob or Simien type numbers to get to a 1st team level this year. Maybe in 2018-19 if he's still here, but there's a decent chance that's not going to happen.

@nuleafjhawk Might be valid if not for the fact Garrett Riley became QB coach during this off-season and therefore bears no responsibility for past QB performances in any season at KU.

@KUSTEVE I like Svi off the bench better because of his versatility. He could sub for any of the starters and the line up wouldn't fall off, just move to a 4-1 if he came in for a big. Svi's ability to play 1-4 makes him a more versatile player off the bench than Vick is to me personally.

Stoops has health issues based on his press release. This does potentially impact KU's coaching staff as well because QB coach Garrett Riley is Lincoln Riley's brother so it's at least a possibility Garrett heads to Norman to join his brother.

@mayjay Pro sports leagues are exempt from anti-trust laws. Kind of hard to enforce even if they weren't because of the Raptors.

If a HS player was going to challenge the legality of a proposed TAD rule, they would've already successfully challenged the OAD rule. As long as the NBA and NBPA change to a TAD rule according to their bylaws, no court is overturning that rule.

The NBA didn't specifically wait until LeBron entered the NBA to enact a OAD rule. The 2007 draft with Durant and Oden was the first year OAD was in place and that was 4 years after LeBron entered the NBA in 2003.

@HighEliteMajor The Nebraska series was scheduled woth the intent of KU being the first opponent in their new arena and they wanted the best program in the region to open the arena. Last time we played Utah at Sprint, they were a top 15 team. Arizona St. was supposed to be Cal before California politics got in the way, and KU did not control their SEC opponent otherwise, Self probably picks Florida for his opponent. Colorado was scheduled so KU fans in western KS didn't have to drive 6-8 hours to see KU play in person (along with Tad Boyle being a Jayhawk). Davidson has veen a much more consistent program over the past 25 years than WSU has under McKillop and is always a good mid-major test.

@BeddieKU23 Where in the back court are starters minutes available? Self brought Moore in specifically to replace Graham. Cunliffe, Garrett, Lawson, and Vick are all interchangeable pieces at the 2/3 spots.

There's potentially front court starters minutes available if BOTH Azubuike and Preston jump, otherwise Lawson moves into the the next to whoever stays if one jumps.

There's back up PG minutes available in 2018 for someone who may end up being the 6th back court guy in 2018 which means there may be 6-8 minutes per game available at most once conference starts.

Unless a top level guy wants to come now, OSU is probably going with an interim for 2017-18 and then going for a big name in 2018.

@HighEliteMajor 1 NCAA tournament appearance between 1988 and 2012. MVC was traditionally a multiple bid league during that stretch amd WSU only had the 2006 run, not impressive at all. Let WSU show they can be good without Marshall coaching them and then get serious about playing them regularly.

He didn't announce his retirement. He ledt because he's been missing on a lot of recruits and both he and the AD agrred a change was needed. Matta will gone for 3 years (time left on his contract), probably at ESPN or BTN during that time and return to the sidelines after that when he's healthy again.

WSU is a school that gets good for a few years, then back into the toilet. If we're going to restart the series with them, let them be good for more than a 5 or so year stretch.

Whoever mentioned UK/UL, those two are almost always good and have very few down years unlike Missouri or WSU.

@BeddieKU23 There's not starters minutes available at guard and that's why KU won't land any of the top PG's.

Moore may not be an elite PG, but he was top 60 and will have a year in the system and is from Chicago so toughness is a nonissue with him despite his size. Self has always preferred experience at PG because he doesn't run a simple system. Unless any of the elite PG's are coming here to back Moore up, KU is landing a development guy at PG to back Moore up.

Even with Newman gone, the backcourt in 2018 is going to be Moore, Vick, Cunliffe with Garrett and Lawson off the bench. That's back up minutes available so I would cross any top level PG off the list right now.

@BeddieKU23 Is there really plenty of minutes to go around at this point? We lose Graham for sure and have Moore replacimg him already. We lose Svi and Whitman for sure and have the Lawson brothers replacing them.

We know there's a chance we lose Azubuike, Newman, and Preston, but that's not a guarantee with any of them. With Garrett and Cunliffe already here abd Vick probably not becoming the featured back court guy until 2018, even if Newman leaves early, KU already has 5 guards for 2018 including all 3 starting spots unless someone flames out. There's not really any backcourt minutes available for 2018.

The front court could be another issue if Azubuike and Preston leave, but not a guarantee either does. I know there's lots of talk about 2018 guards, but I don't see any way KU lands an early commit guard in 2018 with the personnel KU has projected back for 2018. I know Vick is on some 2018 mocks, but he's going to be 4th option at best this season and may not even start this year. It's essentially the same spot Svi was in last year, but Vick doesn't have the international ties Svi does.

I'm not putting much stock in guard talk for KU's 2018 class because there's not any significant minutes available. All recruiting efforts beed to be focused on the front court vecause there's a much higher probability of 1 or bith starting spots being available in 2018.

@jaybate-1.0 I didn't say there was no embargo, I just didn't see it impacting the 2017 class nearly as much as the players KU had coming back impacted 2017 recruiting.

Everybody knew Mason was gone, but everybody knew Newman was already here to replace him. Graham was the key player and he stayed for guard recruiting. JJ was known to be gone and Marcus Garrett committed in July so Svi was the key player and he dragged out his decision past the signing period so even if he went, there was nobody available at that point. Lucas was known to be gone and KU signed potential OAD Preston in November. There was nothing else needed in the front court that was needed because Azubuike was always coming back because of his age. Whitman is Self caring more about 2018 recruiting because it's possible KU loses their entire starting line up after and needs those scholarships to fill in around the Lawson's, Cunliffe and Moore.

Cunliffe is one guy that the embargo argument holds water for in 2017 to me. The other side of the argument is that once it became apparent Graham was likely headed back, the need for a wing greatly decreased because Self likely believed a Vick/Svi combo was better than any wing recruit Self could land in 2017.

Considering KU's history with wings, I don't buy an embargo at the 3 for KU at any point. 2018 could be much more telling about the status of the embargo because KU could have up to 6-7 players leave this year with a minimum of 3. If KU only loses 3, we won't know the embargo status again because Self already gas replacements for Graham, Svi, and Whitman on campus. If KU goes beyond 3, then we could get a glimpse of the status of the embargo and if we get up to 6-7 guys, we'll know for sure the status of the embargo.

3 of the starting spots are locked down right now. Graham, Newman, and Azubuike will start. Vick/Svi will fight for the 3 and Whitman/Preston will fight for the 4.

I think Vick probably starts and Svi comes off the bench bench because of his versatility of being able to sub the 1-4 spots. Garrett is the 8th man early on and then Cunliffe likely supplants him in December.

I don't see Lightfoot factoring into the rotation in any significant way and Garrett's minutes diminishing as conference rolls around.

2017 recruiting isn't the embargo. We've known for awhile this was a potentially small class and KU already had Newman and Preston was a pretty early commit. KU simply didn't have minutes available in 2017-18 when recruiting was at its peak. Not the first time and not the last time it'll happen.

@dylans It's not, companies are allowed to set whatever requirements they want (as long as they're legal) for employment. With regards to pro sports leagues, whatever is in their CBA is what the requirements are. As long as whatever age requirement the NBA comes up with is put in their CBA the way changes are made within their previously defined method for changing rules, there's no legal reason for a court to overturn that without opening Pandora's Box of labor laws and collective bargaining between a union and an employer.

@justanotherfan If the NBA and NBPA collectively bargain a two and done rule or whatever they end up changing it to and the SC gets involved and overturns it, that ruling would go far beyond sports and into labor law by invalidating the collective bargaining process.

People may not agree with the NBA raising their age minimum, but there is nothing illegal about an organization setting requirements to gain entry intro their profession.

@HighEliteMajor As long as any change like this is collectively bargained by the league and the player's union, no court will overturn the rule because of the implications that ruling would have elsewhere in labor rulings.

No court will go after a sports league on this issue and the players that have tried, have failed.

@HighEliteMajor The SC won't waste their time on this when there are more important issues for them to deal with.

No chance this goes to the SC. Maurice Clarett challenged the NFL's age restriction rule in court and lost. That set a legal precedent for professional leagues in the US setting age restrictions for their leagues.

As long as a new age requirement is collectively bargained and installed in a way that follows the NBA's rules for changing rules like that, there's no reason for courts to get involved.

@dylans Baker is a private school though.

@mayjay What I was always told was that because Topeka, Lawrence, and Leavenworth were the most important cities in early Kansas history, those three cities got to choose between the capitol, state prison, and university. Topeka got to pick first and obviously chose the capitol, Leavenworth chose second and chose the prison because universities weren't a big deal at the time and that left Lawrence with the state university.

At least, this is the story I was told by one my geographt professors at KU.

Missouri left and tried to destroy the B12 in the process and has been begging to restart the series since then. As much as I miss the series, why should KU do any favors for a school that tried to put KU in a bad position?

@JayHawkFanToo Big 10 didn't care about on field performance for their expansion, as evidenced by adding Rutgers and Maryland who were terrible in both football and basketball at the time. They only cared about adding new TV markets for their BTN which Rutgers which added NYC and Maryland which added DC and Baltimore. The B10 was wanting KC since Illinois already gave them enough of a presence in St. Louis, and Nebraska claimed they could deliver KC better than Missouri could. Nebraska hasn't done that very well so when the B10 inevitably goes to 16, KU will be in good position to be added for their market share in KC.

@HawkChamp USC has a very good coach in Andy Enfield who built up FGCU and took them to the Sweet 16. USC will be in the hunt for the PAC 12 all year this season.

@JayHawkFanToo Azubuike was dunking with his non-injured hand and was doing that pretty soon after his surgery. People tried making an issue of it when it was happening, but apparently forgot how big UA's hands are and like most big men, can palm a basketball and only needs one hand to dunk.

@jaybate-1.0 Worldwide Wes has his agent's license now. He can't do what he used to do for Cal as long as he is a certified NBA agent.

@JayHawkFanToo I'm pick Alonzo Trier for NPOY with Miles Bridges as his main competition.

@wrwlumpy They had KU #1 prior to Akot reclassifying and joining Arizona this upcoming season instead of 2018.

@Lulufulu Of course Self is a good coach. That's why he wins games unlike someone like Frank Haith who was blatantly buying players at Miami and still couldn't win games there with his bought players.

@jaybate-1.0 There's different degrees of shadiness.

Brandon Rush
Sherron Collins
Darrell Arthur
Xavier Henry
Josh Selby
Andrew Wiggins
Cliff Alexander
Kelly Oubre
Josh Jackson
KU may not have the volume of players that UK and Duke, but to think there has been no shadiness whatsoever with any of these guys is something I would have a hard time believing.

To me, it's just more about not being blatantly obvious that you're cheating that gets schools in trouble lile the fake classes at UNC or agents paying players and other stupid crap like that. Create enough deniability on your end and the NCAA is never going to catch you because of the legal powers they lack as we all saw with the Cliff case.

We all know that Cliff should've been ruled ineligible from the day his mom signed those loan papers, but someone was smart enough to make sure that specific document never reached the NCAA. And since the NCAA can't subpoena anything, Self and KU gets off clean by playing ball with the NCAA and sitting Cliff in a year where KU wasn't making a deep run to begin with.

I would just about guarantee that Self, along with any other high profile coach (regardless of sport) in the NCAA could be busted for some kind of major rules infractions. But as long as you play ball with the NCAA in the little stuff that might occasionally cost a team a scholarship or two and self report tge small stuff, the NCAA won't go after you for the big stuff.

Self just knows how to play the game so he doesn't get in much trouble.

@JayHawkFanToo Newman is a case of outta sight, outta mind.

Probably see some combination of 3-2 with the 4-1 next year with Svi at the 4 when KU goes 4-1.