🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Just started "The Rehearsal" on HBO. It's doc adjacent? Very strange, very funny (to me).

10 Years doesn't even include that ridiculously good 08 Defense. In fact, haven't we been complaining that KU defense hasn't been as great in recent years?

As far as team cohesion goes, I give a ton of credit to Och. He was a mostly quiet leader who led by example and was careful that every time he spoke to make sure his words reflected his values. That note to whoever took his room just solidified in my mind that 22 championship belongs to Och. His teammates saw his dedication, knew why he came back, and played for him. I can't count how many post game interviews with players other than och focused on HIS work ethic and how "he's our guy." He will be missed and losing his leadership more than his skills will be the most likely reason we don't repeat. It will be up to Juan and Wilson to pick up that torch. We will see if they can do it. I also have some wild hope that Yes takes a big step forward in this regard but I think I'm a bit out on a limb there.

As far as the NIL vs love of the program stuff, it definitely is both. Hard to feel appreciated when you know you are undervalued. Hard to build trust and love for a program if you are feeling exploited. People leave jobs when they are underpaid, undervalued, underutilized. Most people are looking for balance and will take less money for a job they really want, or put up with a job they hate for more money but there are limits on both those extremes.

@BeddieKU23 Really just depends on who the starter is. For the most part, starting guards get 30 minutes a game under Self. He likes to find who he thinks is the best guy and then stick with him and let the reserve be a change of pace type player. Anyone have stats on starters avg minutes under self? Feels like only bigs drop into the 2o range and that's if they are out of shape or injured.

I'll take 8 pts, 4 rbs, 40% from 3, 21 min.

@BeddieKU23 I've grown ridiculously comfortable with the FACT that we will compete and likely win the big 12 every year and have a legitimate chance at a title just about every year as we enter the tournament as a top 4 seed. Down years probably mean 2nd in conference and maybe a loss on a Thursday or Friday of the second weekend.

This year we started:
1 SMALL (Juan)
3 MEDIUMS (Och, Bruan, Wilson)
1 BIG (Dave)

If that's the model it would have to be Harris, McCullar, Dick, Wilson, Clemence.

I feel like Rice is Smedium and could fit either category but I don't know much about him tbh.

But I think there's a strong chance we start two smalls leaving Pettiford/Yes as the most important battle for minutes on the whole team I think. Really either way I think there's only ONE truly small guard joining Harris for major minutes this season.

I do think Self showed this year he is willing to play around with lineups early in the year to find the group that gels best together. I think he's sometimes less concerned with getting the 5 best players on the floor that many board rats would like.

Can't remember if I posted as much on here but I was pretty sure Remy was done playing for Kansas because of the injury/personality not giving him enough time to build the trust Self would need. I honestly feel like I was wrong on BOTH Remy and Self with those thoughts as Self was willing to play him despite not really having the evidence to trust, and Remy was truly all in as a Jayhawk and just wanted to win.

@justanotherfan said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:

This KU squad is a top 5 squad. They need to get into transition though, because the half court offense will be a work in progress for most of the season.

Hopefully this defense will be capable of forcing the turnovers and rebound well enough to get this team running. Can you imagine Juan, Yes, and McCullar as the perimeter D? Could definitely apply some pressure to the ball handlers.

@kuballin10 said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:

@drgnslayr technically we did in 2008 as well but Sherron and Remy played in those final 8-10 minutes not Juan and Russ.

I'm a HUGE Russ and Juan fan but this unfortunately for my opinion, very true. I think Bobby or Yes are the Sherron Remy role this year. I dynamic change of pace guard that when they sub in can make a significant impact and change the way a game is going. Juan is steady and won't get us into trouble but may need a little backup with the firepower to blow an opponent out of the water. I like having both as opposed to comparing which is better/more important.

@rockchalkjayhawk It's funny because his footwork in grabbing a rebound and spinning and pushing it up court was so strong while his footwork in preparing for a jump shot was so poor!

@drgnslayr I've been of the opinion that he simply hasn't LOOKED to score at KU yet. Not that he CAN'T score. His jumper is not great but not terrible, his floater game is ok, and he has the ability to convert some tough takes at the rim. He's seemed to be able to get into the paint when he wants to. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for him to take a significant step forward in the scoring department next year.

@DCHawker I said something in an earlier post that he'd be pretty even with Roy IF Self won another title but may not have brought that back up because I thought it was clear overall he IS like you said, behind Roy all time for me right now. I bet Self himself would scoff at being compared to Rupp, Smith, and Iba as they are more legend than coach at this point. But you know he wants one more title to catch Roy. They've competed enough that even though they aren't the SAME generation of coach, they are very comparable for sooooo many reasons. And to get 3 at KU where Roy couldn't get one....

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@justanotherfan Yeah. If CB is back I'd bet big money on him averaging over 16 a game. I just hesitate to put too much trust or expectations of numbers for newcomers because Self over and over again favors the guys he knows and trusts. I'd argue Yes is more likely to get 7 or 8 a game than a transfer scoring 16+ just because Self knows him and was able to see what he was capable of this year and if he makes improvement, he WILL reward him for that with PT and freedom on the court. I also think Harris could slowly develop into more of a 7-10 point a game type guy.

@justanotherfan I'd argue Self IS above Pitino and Calhoun just based on his ridiculous consistency. Neither of those guys has that. Dude just doesn't have a down year. I'd also argue against the "coaches them to win 20-22 games even if passing on the chance to win 30" but maybe just arguing semantically. I'd say he's more coaching them to win 30 games over the course of the season rather than preparing them to win the last 6. He refuses to give up a loss in January for the possible betterment of a player/team in March. So I agree with your sentiment of coaching for a high floor rather than peak ceiling but would just say that is WHY he wins so many games rather than the other way around.

I'd also push back that 2008 is talked about in that rarified air as one of those GREAT teams. Especially when people discuss Kenpom and advanced stats and such.

Great post! Sorry this whole response is everything I disagree with in you post because I really DO agree with most of it! Lol.

4 Top 50 is such a solid class.

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J will and big Dave on the list going to g league camp.

@justanotherfan 16+ is a VERY high bar for a player in Self's system. Especially if Wilson ends up coming back.

@Kcmatt7 So many seemingly reasonable people have gone down such significant rabbit holes. The Ps and Qs comment is VERY well done, btw.

Well I don't think he will catch K for most wins. At 29 wins a year (an absolutely INSANE number he is currently averaging at Kansas) it would take 15.1 more seasons to catch the big K number. Cal and UK is averaging 25.6 per year but has that one bad outlier of the 9 win season pulling his overall average down. The question is is he more likely to avoid another one of those or repeat it? Is Self due for a truly DOWN year? It does seem reasonable to assume as long as Calipari is at Kentucky and Self is at Kansas that we will continue to gain incrementally over time.

As far as where he stands now, I'd comfortably call him the best active coach in Men's College BB. Wright was the main competitor there with Roy and K gone.

My big concern is with seeing how K went out in contrast to Jay wright, what does that do for Self's thinking about retirement? I don't think he's done but also don't think he plans on having to take games off due to health concerns/back trouble/whatever else they said about K. I think he will abruptly retire before we are ready for him to do so.

The second championship does a lot for his place in basketball history. Self is already top 5 in total tournament wins. 16 coaches have multiple titles (according to wiki). And no offense to some of the older folks around here but I don't know a bunch of names on that list so pretty confident that Self is currently sitting top 10 coaches of all time in NCAA Men's basketball. No one will catch Wooden. One more title would line him up with Roy, Calhoun, and Knight. And on overall record I'd give the edge to Self over Calhoun and Knight if he gets there and really a toss up with Roy. But he's currently safe to be mentioned along with names like Dean Smith and Iba,

@Kcmatt7 Lol, good times.

@Kcmatt7 said in Where art thou, Jaybate?:

@benshawks08 said in Where art thou, Jaybate?:

@Kcmatt7 Wonder how many of those were about me? I know 3/31/19 for sure without even looking back but I suspect others as well. I know I'm not special. His condescension was truly without bounds!

Quite a few... I left out the Skinny Jeans quote though and I really shouldn't have.

Was that in the same one with the sentiment that he was smarter than me because his salary was at least 4 times mine?

I've never been one of the "stick to basketball" types because I think everything is so connected. But I really wish HEM would have. I generally enjoyed arguing basketball with someone with a different view from myself. And generally enjoy challenging conversations with folks who think differently than me. But there was definitely a turning point where all that became not so fun anymore. The radicalization of some groups of people have been intense to process in the last 6-7 years.

To @drgnslayr 's point, that all does make me miss Jaybate all the more. For all the knowledge, snark and wit, for the most part he never worked to tear others down unless they were truly trolls asking for it.

@Kcmatt7 Wonder how many of those were about me? I know 3/31/19 for sure without even looking back but I suspect others as well. I know I'm not special. His condescension was truly without bounds!

@jayballer67 Yeah. I honestly think these kids are smart for staying. It’s been made very clear self values experience. Any experience is good but experience in his system is extra valuable. And a lot of these fringe starters/likely bench players don’t have to be the next ochai to get minutes. They need to be the next Mitch. The next Harris. Self doesn’t decide who plays based on talent. It drives many fans crazy and drove some folks off the message board for good but he values hard work, defense, and reliability. He plays the guys he trusts. They all just watched Dejuan Harris not even really be challenged for his starting spot by the best transfer in the portal. Pre season player of the year sat the bench behind a dude with a mediocre jumper and a can do attitude. So who is self going to feel he can rely on more next year? Isiah Mosley or joe yesefu? A bunch of freshmen or the guys who pushed a team all the way to the championship? We can (and will) predict lineups all summer long but when late night hits, self will be looking for one thing as the season gets started. Who can he TRUST? Who knows the plays, schemes, etc. Who can execute? Who will give that extra effort? Who will rise to the occasion and take a big shot? And yeah, any of these guys could see there way into a role as the next Mitch light foot, landen Lucas, Brady Morningstar, jamari traylor, Christian moody, etc.

@BShark Like I said, recruitin.

@BShark But it's not COMPLETELY out of the realm of possibility, correct? Like Christian's mom is clearly trying to get Mosely to Kansas. I know she loves Harris too but could there be more motive than that?

@BShark Right? Just play north carolina again and it's winner takes all for 23?

I don't honestly think that will be what is best for Braun but boy it would be fun. Imagine being a legit threat to go back to back with your high school buddies playing next to you?

@FarmerJayhawk Man, if we get Mosely AND Braun comes back...

Harris, Mosely, Braun, Wilson, Clemence n company with HIGH talent game changers on the bench at every spot. Self couldn't use em all but I bet he'd figure out how to make the best of the players he did use. whew!

@bskeet I'm with you on that. Feel like he has a chance to be REAL good at KU and still has a few years left, no? Seemed to me he was just behind Juan and healthy Remy for PG minutes. He's now had a year in the system. I'd be surprised if he is in any way ASKED to leave. Think it will be a real battle with him and Bobby next year for that second little guard spot that sometimes plays with Harris and sometimes in place of. And I know we have some strong freshmen wing/guard types coming in but I never trust a freshman to get minutes until I see them play against real d1 competition.

@BShark I think there is a benefit to having 11 or 12 legit D1 players on a team even if only 7 or 8 get legit minutes. It allows the scout team to really challenge the starters. Self has shown and said he really prefers to keep rotations pretty tight. If a bench player can't bring something extra that a starter doesn't already provide then why play them? It doesn't ever seem like rest, overall minutes, long term wear and tear, etc. really factor into his in game substitution strategies. A player has to be visibly incapable of playing 40 for Self to consider dropping a starter under 30 MPGs (Dave this year on the foot, early Doke with poor conditioning, etc.) And we all know there are some non-negotiables as far as getting on the court on a Self coached team.

@BShark And when does Self ever really need more than 13? He said he asked a BUNCH of guys to red shirt last season because he knew outside of the top 8-9 minutes would be few and far between and those guys would be scout team players anyway. Only Cam and Cuffe took him up on it. He did ALSO say he'd never ask someone to redshirt unless he thought they could help the program down the line because that would just be a waste of everybody's time. And why keep a guy around that isn't good enough to help.

@BShark “Really just a school that deals with pros. A school that is willing to make their best player run suicides or make their best player get disciplined as much as their worst player. A school that holds everybody accountable. I’m just looking for a good team. A family first team like Missouri State is." This sounds like us... Self brought preseason conference player of the year, Remy Martin off the bench and basically refused to play him until he got better.

@FarmerJayhawk Is that by school or like ever? For example, could a student leave one program with a scholarship to be a walk on at another?

@BShark You think we are on the Mosely or bust train?

@Kubie Yeah, my memory of it is vague at best but I think it either happened or was discussed A LOT as a possibility.

Haven't we had situations in the past where students with means gave up their scholarship making room for someone without the financial backing to attend college?

@BShark Are walk-ons prohibited from NIL earnings? I feel like Teahan was cashing in with his shirts and stuff. Why wouldn't a high level player be allowed to walk on if they chose to knowing their NIL potential could outweigh a scholarship? Why does Tschibwe (sp??) need a scholarship at Kentucky? He can pay for his own education if he decided he'd rather participate as a walk on. It does seem murky but I'd be surprised if the NCAA had enough forethought to actually have a rule on this. Seems like the regulation side of this NIL/Transfer Portal mayhem is sorely lacking. But hey, the players are benefitting for the most part right now so I'm all good with that.

@drgnslayr said in NIL, transfers, NCAA Policies and where do we go from here:

I think the transfer portal concept will start balancing out as time goes by (a few years).

Watch schools like WSU... where they totally missed the early NIL train and now are trying to catch back up.

There will come the day when an organic balance is reached.

Meanwhile... try not to think of adding more rules. It is a great concept. It's basically "free agency" to players every year!

In the end, it will eventually be good for the player, which will also make it good for the school, which will make it good for the fans, too.

Not to mention the impact COVID and the COVID year are still having on this.

@drgnslayr Have you heard the story behind that game? Apparently Bill tried to take him out and he just stayed on the court and decided he would shoot every opportunity he got. He said he kinda had to earn that respect from Self in order to be able to do something like that but he thinks ultimately Self kinda liked him challenging him that way. He talks to Landen about it on his podcast. It was super fun to listen to!

From the ku athletics article linked above: "All the great things I’ve achieved this season are all well and good, but I’m going into a grown man’s league. No matter where I’m drafted, I’m going to have to fight my way in. That’s why it’s so useful to me that I’ve always had a chip on my shoulder, and I don’t see it going away any time soon. I still feel like I’m undervalued — just like I was coming out of high school, just like I was entering my senior year at KU. That motivates me. I’m not done working yet, and I think I still have a whole other level my game can reach."

@drgnslayr You may have been on to something with that whole chip thing.

@approxinfinity said in 08 guards appreciation:

@Kcmatt7 i have to admit i had withdrawl symptoms after that team. I was irritated with Self because it felt like he was restricting some of our later teams’ guards ability to gamble while he let Chalmers and Robinson jump whatever they wanted.

Russ and Mario didn't really gamble. They went after balls they knew they were getting. Part of it was it was a different time with mostly 2 bigs on the floor for everyone and not so many ball handlers on the floor at the same time. Rush was such a good on and off ball defender that he could deny his man the ball and force the other two guards on the floor to have to make plays when the set plays blew up. Russ was in his man's pocket from about 3/4 court making even the simplest of passes difficult. And yes, Mario's anticipation was simply elite.

@Gorilla72 Fairly confident they changed that rule so that players can go through the process as many times as they want.

@benshawks08 said in No more expectations moving forward:
But what I’ve concluded from the evidence I have is that this team plays better without Remy. It sucks for Remy. It sucks for the team because Remy has the potential to be a really good player. But that’s what I see right now.

Bad takes exposed...

Dave….
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@BeddieKU23 It would be a very Lebron, "taking my talents to south beach" type moment when he announced his move to Kansas.

@BeddieKU23 Any chance he enters the portal and comes to Kansas? I think I'd take him. Would definitely like him more if he did that...He did talk about liking playing for Bill in the under 18 game. lol.

@BeddieKU23 Never seen a guy who I believed ONLY cared about winning more. I mean, they all say it, but Och meant it. He did not care about any of those accolades except the third, the fourth, and the last one. I hope he lands with a decent NBA squad so he can keep on winning!