We have a problem:
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I don’t even know what to say. This is what we get when the “leader of the free world” repeatedly calls the press the “enemy of the people.” (Specifically CNN) This video is one of the many reasons that rhetoric is just not ok. I’m not saying he CANT say it. He’s free to say what he wants, but man is it irresponsible.
@jayballer73 exactly this so many times. Wish I could upvote it over and over.
@Hawk69 start a new thread if you want that to be the topic. See who engages. The two things have nothing to do with each other and that comment has no place on a COVID thread.
Stuff like this doesn’t help the confused and frustrated (myself included):
@Crimsonorblue22 For some reason my autocorrect changes shut to shit on me quite often. Guess I might type the latter too frequently!!!
Ok, fact or opinion? Is trump actually taking hudroxochlorine (I know I spelled that wrong...)?
If so, why?
If not, why lie about it?
My opinion is we have to start opening some things but like @jayballer73 said it has to be VERY gradual. We shit everything down because the virus was spreading fast with no way to track it and no way to evaluate what tactics might work to slow the spread. We basically threw everything we had into stopping the spread except massive testing and contact tracing. Now, those last two have been proven to work elsewhere but we for whatever reason still don’t have that capability. But again, this thing lies dormant for up to 14 days so if we start upping the openings week by week we will go right back to where we started which is not knowing what works and what doesn’t.
There are plans out there even from the federal and state governments but like here in Texas, we aren’t even following our own guidelines. We are moving through the phases because we feel like it, not because we’ve met the criteria the govt set. The lack of leadership in this mess at just about every level is astounding.
Seems like everyone has decided “let’s just wait and see” and then whenever they get to bored decide, “ok, now let’s do this”
The communication with the public on what the overall plan is just isn’t there.
@jayballer73 Confused, frustrated, scared, unsure, I’m feeling all those things right along with you. For me you can add on angry, disappointed, baffled, and occasionally depressed. And I still have my job, my house, my partner, my dog, and my health so folks who are losing one or more of those things right now can just multiply those emotions by about 100!
@HighEliteMajor My problem is the people in charge seem to be continually erring on the side of less caution rather than more. You are definitely right that there is still a lot we don’t know.
My understanding is that N95 masks are about the only kind of mask to help prevent an individual from contracting the virus. All other masks are to prevent the individual from possible spreading it unknowingly.
Seems to me the current plan is to get to herd immunity as slowly as quickly as possible without overwhelming the hospitals. Because nothing else has really changed from when stay at home orders went into place. Staying at home has flattened the curve or made it linear rather than exponential. But cases are still increasing just about everywhere thinking about or actually opening up.
My big frustration is a lack of a clear plan or maybe if there is a plan, a lack of transparency about what that plan is. Why did we work so hard and take such drastic measures if not to buy time for a clear plan?
Masks for everyone or at least all most at risk = plan. I haven’t heard that from anyone other than approx.
Testing for everyone or at least enough to reach a certain percentage? I know we are increasing testing but to what end? Most places people who have symptoms still are struggling to get tested.
Well, the ACA has done a lot for my family.
Speaking of science and stuff...
https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2 ↗
Um.... no.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Yes. That is clearly the connection (along with democratic governors). But I still don't get how yesterday it's up to the governors to decide how and when to open their states and today it's "liberate michigan" or whatever. Unless he means something else, which is what I'm trying to understand. I'm not trying to make a point, just trying to understand. There are so many things I don't understand and never will, this might just have to get added to the list.
@bskeet Tito's vodka had to put out a statement telling people their vodka didn't!
Stay in Kansas as the surrounding areas aren't looking good!
"The bump in coronavirus cases is most pronounced in states without stay at home orders. Oklahoma saw a 53% increase in cases over the past week, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Over same time, cases jumped 60% in Arkansas, 74% in Nebraska, and 82% in Iowa. South Dakota saw a whopping 205% spike.
The remaining states, North Dakota, Utah and Wyoming each saw an increase in cases, but more in line with other places that have stay-at-home orders. And all of those numbers may very well undercount the total cases, given a persistent lack of testing across the US."
That from this: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/17/politics/republican-governors-stay-at-home-coronavirus/index.html ↗
@Crimsonorblue22 Yeah. According to this no state really does.
@jayballer73 Love that your order is 1. Bbal, 2. buckets, 3. football 4. Only kinda football.
@jayballer73 Hope she doesn't read your posts!
@jayballer73 6 feet man, 6 feet!
@jayballer73 Other silver linings to increasing positive numbers could mean better/more testing but hard to say. Still seeing the peak supposedly around the beginning of May overall but locally will vary wildly.
@approxinfinity @jayballer73 I have some random ciders and beers folks left in my fridge from when people were still allowed to come over. Not much good though. Have to break into the whisky.
Looks life life after flattening could be better for some than others...
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article242003481.html ↗
Guess republicans snuck some stuff into the relief bill too.
@approxinfinity I just can't figure out what it even means. Like, there are only so many definitions and connotations for the word "liberate." Is he saying those states need to open now? Is he saying they need to remove their governors? It's just so unclear to me that I was hoping someone who thinks differently than me could give me a hand in figuring it out.
And does Virginia have some amendment undoing the 2nd amendment that I haven't heard about?
Curious if anyone knows what Trump means by "Liberate Michigan," "Liberate Virginia, and save your great 2nd amendment. It is under siege!" and "Liberate Minnesota!" I'm trying to keep an open mind but I guess I don't get the context or message being sent here?
@jayballer73 I feel that! Gotta entertain ourselves somehow.
@jayballer73 You ok, man?
@BShark a bit.
@FarmerJayhawk Lemurs need parents, too! Family units are the backbone of American Values.
@Crimsonorblue22 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@bskeet when I read it I thought it was strange, as I had the news on all am and never heard a word about it.
I mean it was posted on the appropriate thread... We are on "differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19." Might want to add "...and absolute rubbish" after the word opinion.
@jayballer73 I have a pic of me and Devonte from the Kansas City airport. One of my faves. Such a fun player to watch! Has so much passion and joy and love for the game!
@jayballer73 Let me know if you find any more completely and obviously made up stories that have made you very angry. Happy to google it quickly and let you know it's not real.
@jayballer73 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@benshawks08 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@jayballer73 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@benshawks08 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@jayballer73 Are you blocking me? For pointing out your story was false and based on a satirical post? You realize I'm not attacking you, right? Just the content of your post.
I'm not sure it is fake - -again maybe we better just not read anything -- watch anything listen to anything, that way we KNOW we are safe
It definitely is. But thanks for trolling.
ahhh there it is , NOW we are into the name calling -- I knew you had it in you so now I'm a "Troll " - - Nice, and very Mature too , ok like I said before have a great day
ahh there it is, NOW we are into the pretending to be a victim -- I knew you had it in you -- Nice, and very Mature too, ok have a great day.
@jayballer73 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@benshawks08 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@jayballer73 Are you blocking me? For pointing out your story was false and based on a satirical post? You realize I'm not attacking you, right? Just the content of your post.
I'm not sure it is fake - -again maybe we better just not read anything -- watch anything listen to anything, that way we KNOW we are safe
It definitely is. But thanks for trolling.
@jayballer73 Most major media outlets do this. There has been some movement toward the old "better to be first than right" mantra, but for the most part reporting from the big boys is reliable. Slanted, sure. Biased, probably. But rarely completely made up and based on no sources whatsoever.
@jayballer73 Are you blocking me? For pointing out your story was false and based on a satirical post? You realize I'm not attacking you, right? Just the content of your post.
@jayballer73 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@benshawks08 said in Differentiating fact from opinion on COVID-19:
@bskeet Stuff like this is what really frustrates me about Trump calling CNN, NY Times, and other news outlets he doesn't like, "Fake News." It totally muddles the media landscape and gets in the way of identifying truly FAKE news sources that target folks based on their internet activity. Fake News is such a huge problem, just not at all in the way Trump rages on about. There is a huge difference between protecting a source by keeping them anonymous and making up sources, quotes, and content out of the blue to play on people's biases.
understand - you mean like the things other Media says that Trump talks about. - -ONE vicious circle huh - -the old he said - - she said. - -maybe we just don't listen to anything - - anyone ya that's beter
That's exactly what I don't want the world to come to. I want there to be a free and reliable press that gets their stories from sources and verifies truth before posting. No one will ever do this perfectly but there are some that try, and others whose goal is to make stuff up. Gotta be able to tell the difference.
@jayballer73 Hit me with a link then, friend. I did some searching on the quote and the content and everything I find says it's a fake story from a while ago that has resurfaced for some reason now. The original came from a site that begins with "Everything on this website is fiction. It is not a lie and it is not fake news because it is not real. If you believe that it is real, you should have your head examined. Any similarities between this site’s pure fantasy and actual people, places, and events are purely coincidental and all images should be considered altered and satirical. See above if you’re still having an issue with that satire thing."
http://archive.vn/UXjQS#selection-231.0-231.407 ↗
@mayjay I agree to a certain extent. We saw the system pressure Nixon into resigning. But we've also seen the system fail to use its mechanisms to control this president thanks to, from my perspective, a lack of courage from well meaning conservatives. Politicians from both sides are so caught up with getting reelected, they hesitate to stray from their pack to do what they know and feel is right. I don't think that has ALWAYS been the case. Yes people with power have always wanted to maintain power but the factionalism is at the very least on a swing right now towards more divided than whatever normal is.
@DoubleDD said in The democratic nominee:
@benshawks08 said in The democratic nominee:
@DoubleDD I’d say some of that comes with being the president. Obama was accused of being a muslim (as if that was a bad thing), of not being a citizen, of wearing a tan suit...
And the rest of it Trump brings on himself by defiantly refusing to: follow any governmental norms, learn and understand what he can and cannot do as president, and live on the line (or over the line) of what is appropriate behavior from an elected official.
Have you ever participated in a “good debate” because your posts are not that. You don’t defend a position, you deflect, ignore, and accuse others of wrongdoing instead of defending your guy. For example, if a student cheats on a test, accusing another student of also cheating doesn’t prove that kid didn’t cheat whether the accusation is accurate or not. Nor does the defense that some other kid stole money from my desk so cheating isn’t even bad.
I’m sorry you feel that way. Because I feel like I’m going up against perception Created by the media and the Democratic Party. I mean have you ever heard of anybody woman or man black white green blue being wrong about everything. It seems illogical.
If you read one of my posts in this thread (I don't remember which one) I'm pretty sure I bring up just that point. He isn't wrong about everything! Even a broken clock is right twice a day! And sure, there is plenty of bogus criticism out there by people that simply hate Trump. My point is that's not what I'm seeing on this board. Especially during COVID-19 most of the perception has come directly from Trump's briefings where HE is "controlling" the message. And he has made sure that for every reporter in the room who is likely to ask him difficult, uncomfortable questions, there is another he can go to lob him a softball or lead him right where he wants to go. The media does shape perceptions, but both ways.
Also, we are good from whatever you apologized for last night. I appreciate the apology even though I didn't even see what was said. I've noticed you attempting to keep things civil and do appreciate that work.
@mayjay I would argue that just because this isn't new doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Additionally, I do think the current situation is a bit more perilous than anything in the recent past going back to Nixon as to me, the guy in charge simply doesn't care about preserving anything. I can't think of another president who thought so much for themselves over the country and whose plans were so shortsighted. I'm not that old and my memory isn't that good but I think everyone from both sides can agree that Trump is DIFFERENT from any leader we've had before. His stated goals were to tear the system down and in some places he's been successful in doing just that. Nothing that can't be undone long term but not everyone has the luxury of thinking long term, especially right now.
@mayjay I'm trying not to create my own dangerous little bubble where I only read stuff I agree with but it is a lot of work sometimes.
@bskeet Stuff like this is what really frustrates me about Trump calling CNN, NY Times, and other news outlets he doesn't like, "Fake News." It totally muddles the media landscape and gets in the way of identifying truly FAKE news sources that target folks based on their internet activity. Fake News is such a huge problem, just not at all in the way Trump rages on about. There is a huge difference between protecting a source by keeping them anonymous and making up sources, quotes, and content out of the blue to play on people's biases.
@jayballer73 This is an example of FAKE NEWS. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pelosi-ss-leeches/ ↗
That quote is completely made up.
@DoubleDD said in The democratic nominee:
modules:composer.user_said_in, @benshawks08, The democratic nominee
See evidence to support my previous argument above^^^^
I’m sorry. I’m in a bit of attack mode. I’m sorry. You spoke your thoughts and I was rude. Deleted my post out of respect. You should be proud of @approxinfinity he is a good dude.
I didn’t see it as I was typing my response to your earlier post. Not trying to get personal, just can’t follow your logic or argument.
@DoubleDD I’d say some of that comes with being the president. Obama was accused of being a muslim (as if that was a bad thing), of not being a citizen, of wearing a tan suit...
And the rest of it Trump brings on himself by defiantly refusing to: follow any governmental norms, learn and understand what he can and cannot do as president, and live on the line (or over the line) of what is appropriate behavior from an elected official.
Have you ever participated in a “good debate” because your posts are not that. You don’t defend a position, you deflect, ignore, and accuse others of wrongdoing instead of defending your guy. For example, if a student cheats on a test, accusing another student of also cheating doesn’t prove that kid didn’t cheat whether the accusation is accurate or not. Nor does the defense that some other kid stole money from my desk so cheating isn’t even bad.
See evidence to support my previous argument above^^^^
@FarmerJayhawk said in The democratic nominee:
@DoubleDD said in The democratic nominee:
@approxinfinity said in The democratic nominee:
@DoubleDD said in The democratic nominee:
@kjayhawks said in The democratic nominee:
@DoubleDD @approxinfinity @DanR We have to be able to see it from the other side without insulting and fighting each other. There is truth to both sides. Have the Dems labeled virtually everything Trump has done including his initial China travel ban racist? Yes, without question. Has Trump back tracked and gave circular reasoning? Yes, without question.
I’m not the one calling names. I’m just posting a different point of view. I guess it’s like how a conservative speaker can’t speak on on a college campus anymore for fear of their life. And conservatives are nazi’s?
Some extreme trolling right here. I didn't call it dumbass trolling. Just extreme trolling.
Yet is it not true? Are not conservatives refrained on college campuses? For the colleges can’t give them the protection needed. What are these kids being taught? Doesn’t the media treat and even says the rep party is Nazism? Just saying
As an instructor at a college campus I can say a couple things on this. 1) liberals are much more resistant to hearing opposing ideas than conservatives 2) this doesn’t necessarily mean conservatives are oppressed 3) I’ve had conservatives come up to me and say thank you for trying to include all sides of a conversation since they’re obviously a distinct minority.
Reading this board would convince me conservatives are more resistant to hearing opposing ideas with @DoubleDD as the prime example. Conservatives right now, led by trump are looking for every opportunity to play the victim and it’s as sincere as those procedural arguments you brought up earlier. It’s trumps playbook over and over. Take the position of the attacked so that it looks like punching up even though he has the highest office in the land and the only direction he can punch (or would ever have the courage to) is down. Notice how in most of the clips of him berating reporters, they are women and often women of color. He is the typical bully who is afraid of everyone even though he’s the biggest kid on the playground. So tired of the conservatives who accuse others of being snowflakes and the PC police having absolutely no spine to handle legitimate criticism.
If we think back to the one thing Jaybate was consistent on in his posts it was that the world is rarely one way or the other, it is always both. Are there people who criticize trumps every move without regard for whether they even might agree with it? Yes. Does that mean other critiques are automatically null and void?
I’ve seen @approxinfinity admit he was wrong, ask questions, and appreciate opposing views that he doesn’t share. I’ve seen most other folks on the board do the same thing. But when it comes to Trump there are some who simply refuse to see the plain facts for what they are and I don’t think this post or any other will change that but it’s disappointing as hell and makes me afraid for the future of our country, honestly. A country I love, despite what others may tell you I believe or feel.
@Woodrow I mean at this point, if things go back to the way they were before that would just mean we are ill prepared for the next virus. Hopefully, some meaningful change comes from this. Hopefully, we learn something.
@kjayhawks Don't forget he's the ONLY democrat left in the field! In other breaking news, Ivanka supports Trump's bid for reelection...
@FarmerJayhawk But quite memorably not ALL filabusters.