@drgnslayr Not sure if itâs looking back at 08 with the knowledge that they won it all or nostalgia or just that Chalmers and Russ Rob is still my favorite guard combo and Darnell Jackson was also a personal favorite. But it sure seemed like that team loved to compete. They wanted the other teams best shot and played better when they got it. They thrives on pressure defense from the other team and knew theyâd broken them when they had to drop into a zone. That team loves it when a team went zone. Might as well have just given up! I still remember self talking about that team and how they always checked their stats after every game and the stat they wanted to know first was how many points their man got. That team lives to scout and game plan. Miss those guys.
@HighEliteMajor It does hurt that 3 of those UNC NCs are with our old coach. Three! The only coach to win 3 since Self has been at KU. Was it the UNC brand that pushed Roy over the top or did he just leave Kansas as he was hitting his prime coaching years?
I personally appreciate consistency so I wouldn't trade The Streak for one national championship and a trip to the NIT. But two NCs? I'd make that deal.
@mayjay Yep. That seems to be the exact definition people use it for today. Hasn't changed a bit!
@Marco Guess that's what I get for trying to post at 2:30 in the morning! Sorry for misquoting you. Did you edit your post or was I dreaming that it said something different the last time I read it? Again, it was 2:30 so that is possible I was!
And no, it's not specific at all. It's quite muddy and vague at this point.
@Marco No word has a âvery specific meaning.â Language is about a combination of denotation and connotation. Both are constantly in flux as languages blend and meld, grow and die. Donât think anyone is saying donât use this word or that but are instead making sure people understand the different connotations a word might have. Hate speech is still protected speech in America but that doesnât mean you can say whatever you want without consequences. The words we use show who we are, especially on the internet where things like nonverbal indicators and tone of voice are wholly absent.
@nuleafjhawk We did absolutely nothing special the first game against Baylor. I mentioned after that game that I thought Self was relying on the building to create enough of an advantage for our guys so he could save some wrinkles for the game at Baylor.
@nuleafjhawk They won't go undefeated. That's for sure. I think we will win in Waco, but hard to see how they lose too many other games in this conference. You are right though that they are likely to surprise us with a loss or two at some point!
@nuleafjhawk Good win beats a bad loss every day of the week for me!
So we've argued in the past about how having a strong (or balanced if you don't like the word strong) conference top to bottom has been both a blessing and a curse. The tough opponents every night toughened KU and prepared them for the tournament or wore them down and prevented them from being healthy at the end of the year.
This year's Big 12 is NOT that. We can talk about a great win last night but if we are honest, it was pretty much a night off. The bottom of the league just can't compete with the top 3-4 teams. Will games like these benefit or hurt KU in the long run?
On the plus side, Dotson only played 25 minutes, the bench (well what bench we have at the moment) got in on the action and gained some valuable experience, and our younger players were able to see some success and gain some confidence.
Possible negatives might be that we saw the Jayhawks settling for some jumpers and losing focus for spurts in that game that could kill us vs. a stronger opponent. Will we be ready for our next big game after playing a few conference bottom dwellers?
Will the conference look better with 3 teams with a legitimate shot at the Final 4 or will getting in only 4-5 teams ultimately hurt the reputation of the Big 12?
These have been the meandering lunchtime thoughts of @benshawks08
@BeddieKU23 I think he honestly has a good shot and I'd bet money he cans his fair share in practice. I think his work is more on the mental side of the game. For him his issues seem to be more about decision making, being in the right spot at the right time, and getting comfortable on the floor. Braun has progressed much more quickly in these areas and that's why he's doing what he is in Big 12 play. I believe Enaruna will be every bit the player Braun is long run and certainly has potential to be special.
@Crimsonorblue22 He did but I feel like all the rebounding numbers from last night are a little inflated. Sooo many bricks from both teams!
Also, Enaruna isn't there yet but that kid has some defensive potential. He is just so long! I foresee many blocks, deflections and steals in his future.
Don't think we should discount the defensive dirty work Ochai has done this year. His offense definitely needs to come around but I don't think that's really his focus. I think next year his offense starts to flow a little better like Marcus has done this year. I think this team's strength is their defense and we should play to that strength.
@drgnslayr So far all the science points exactly to the opposite. Race doesn't even really exist scientifically. It's a social construct.
Mine still only works on Wifi, not the LTE network from AT&T.
@HighEliteMajor No one has argued that violent crime isn't a problem. Nor have a "mocked this issue" whatever that means. There has been significant argument about what you've "identified" as "some very large reasons why." Crime maps by race are not inherently racist but become that when a person uses it to argue that one race is better/worse than another. You either believe that all people are created equal or you don't. You can declare my stance as lacking credibility but I'm comfortable with the problems I've pointed out in your "wins in a knockout" argument. You see, I am not proposing to have THE answer to violent crime because I don't know everything about the statistics, the causes, or the people involved. It's clear you've spent more time studying the issue than I have but that doesn't make your conclusions correct. You can declare yourself the smartest person in the room and the winner of all arguments but you continue to refuse to reevaluate your own stance and accept the problems that many on here of pointed out.
Your little scenario gets directly at the problem with your argument. It seems you have a natural fear of black people and are comfortable attributing the actions of a few to an entire group of people. That prejudice tints your view of everything and closes you off to seeing things from another perspective. Perhaps try to "challenge your thoughts" and take the risk of admitting you could be wrong.
@mayjay If I remember correctly a couple of mine were threatened not too long ago! Lol.
@drgnslayr You are right that love over hate is the goal. Starting by giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming positive intent are also worthy aspirations. There are times though as Maya Angelou says, âwhen a person shows you who they are, believe them.â Thatâs kind of where I am with @HighEliteMajor at this point. At some point all that benefit of the doubt just becomes enabling or silent acceptance. Thatâs why I feel the need to call it out and call it racism whenever I see it. Racism is prejudice plus power. If we always give those in power the benefit of the doubt, those without power suffer.
It is really hard to respond to hate with love and definitely something we could all get better at.
@HighEliteMajor Positions that start with racism are in my book without merit so you got me there. You didnât talk just about out of wedlock births. They were specifically black single moms that were the problem. Or was it the black men who werenât around who were the problem? Itâs hard to keep track of which black person is your problem at any given moment.
@HighEliteMajor Yeah when one person says they know THE TRUTH and arenât just saying they are friends with paul pierce Iâm going to be critical. There is never ONE reason or factor to such a massive issue like the broad issue you call inner city violence. You tell people that they are ignoring what is right in front of them but do no self reflection on what you might not be able to see from your perspective. Try learning something instead of preaching for a change.
@mayjay pugilist is a very underused word!
@bskeet I think the key is to just describe the behavior instead of trying to then come up with a name to call a person. Itâs hard to do and often takes more words and significantly more thought, two things I donât always have. But I think itâs worth it to try.
@mayjay I just wish I could read about basketball without having to confront white supremacy every other day. Not sure how a person of color could stand to be on this site.
@HighEliteMajor Purposefully and intentionally racist. Got it. Glad your ok with that. I wonât be.
BShark said:
@benshawks08 when white supremacists use the word thug I cringe. Many times people become racist without realizing it. I've got a video I need to post about this later when I'm home.
Right, itâs might be different if the guy didnât overtly advertise how racist he is in about every third post. At what point is enough enough with this crap? Go post that crap on stormfront or breitbart, ya know?
@HighEliteMajor By your logic (and as youâve mentioned before) taunting happens all the time too but fighting and brawls donât. We all agree the taunt was wrong but it is entirely possible To be tainted and then not fight. I would argue that is the manlier response, to have enough pride and self respect to not let someone else define your masculinity. Get up and walk away. Master your emotions. Thatâs what we need to be praising boys and young men for if we want to prevent things like this from happening again.
Can some folks read or listen to this piece please about the word âthugâ? Itâs a solid academic take on language and race and how those things work together and against each other. Itâs not very long nor do I think itâs political in nature. Words matter.
https://www.npr.org/2015/04/30/403362626/the-racially-charged-meaning-behind-the-word-thug â
@HighEliteMajor Bold move bring a Pat Forde article in on this. That guy is terrible especially so when talking KU. Itâs like going to Fox News to hear about Democrats or MSNBC about Republicans. You already know what itâs going to say and the truth of the matter rarely matters in any âanalysisâ from the source.
@bskeet If your saying call the game the same from start to finish I agree on that. But I donât think blowouts and dribbling out the clock should have anything special or different from regular play. But Iâm honestly not that upset about the steal or the block. Clock is running, game on. Does it make the KState player look foolish, sure but thatâs for him to deal with.
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I feel like this is good from Self.
@bskeet Donât think we should change the rules for the last few seconds of games only in blowouts. What qualifies as a blow out? How many seconds can a team âdribble out the clockâ? If we change the end of games we need to go to the Elam ending. Completely takes stuff like this off the table. Every possession matters until the game is over. Every game has a game winning shot. Fouling to stop the clock becomes useless.
@jayballer73 Hard to dislike a coach who thinks and talks like this. Dude always says the right thing even if he may sometimes say too much.
Is Selfâs problem that he is too likely to talk to the media about these things? There arenât any cover ups (that we know of obviously). Every player that has had discipline issues has faced consequences and for the most part Self discussed these things as much as he can without throwing his players under the bus. Weâve seen recently that deny, deny, deny, then lie, lie, lie can be an effective PR strategy.
Does winning a title this year make him more or less likely to be gone?
@HighEliteMajor There is a difference between "standing up for a brother" who is being taunted 1 on 1 and "standing up for a brother" who is being physically assaulted 10 to 1. There is also a big difference between taunting and fighting. As several people have pointed out, taunting happens all the time without instigating brawls. Taunting is common, brawls are not. We are in complete agreement that Silvio taunted the K-State player and that was wrong. But pushing and punching a person is an order of magnitude worse offense.
I would then also argue that bringing the stool into it was again an order of magnitude worse than just pushing and punching as it is essentially a weapon. Because of this I think the suspensions are pretty much fair though could be persuaded that the instigator from K-State should have received equal time to Silvio.
The biggest issue I have at this point is the way the situation has been handled by the two programs. Self immediately took responsibility saying "we were in the wrong." Notice it wasn't my guys were wrong but "we." Long put out a statement right after the game apologizing for clearly unacceptable behavior. Self preemptively suspended Silvio indefinitely and still hasn't confirmed (as far as I know) if there will be anything beyond the 12 games. Silvio put out a statement (yes it was coached) expressing his regret and apologies. From Bruce post game we heard stuff like, yeah I guess maybe it could have been my fault, I called em off but they didn't do it, I didn't really see anything so..." We have a statement from the AD admonishing the behavior but showing no contrition and taking no responsibility. "We will live with the consequences" is not a message I can get behind.
Maybe from a PR perspective they had the better strategy because KU is certainly getting all the negative press but that doesn't make it right.
@dylans Studies have shown once you get to a certain point, the more money a person makes generally the less happy that person is. A few years ago the cut off was around 70k. Surveys showed once people made more than that they actually worried more about money than people who didn't have enough. They became tighter with their finances and less likely to give generously which is scientifically the best way to boost happiness.
@nuleafjhawk I don't think there will be a similar incident but I do worry that fans will take things too far. I would not attend that game as a Kansas fan. I'm biased because I view their fans as borderline inappropriate just about every time we play there and this is just going to add fuel to that fire. Add to that the school/program/coaches doing nothing to dampen that fire and I just get a bad feeling.
The most likely outcome is a normal game with some inappropriate fan comments/chants and signs and nothing more.
BeddieKU23 said:
At least there was a Statement. Haven't seen a peep from the Kansas St coaches or players. Where's their accountability?
This is definitely Strike #2 since he's been here. Strike 1 you can debate how much is his fault, Strike 2 you can't.
The chair photo will always be there. Definitely a black eye to the program.
Where was the accountability from K-St's assistants to stop the players on the bench from engaging Silvio? Silvio made a bad choice (standing over, taunting) and followed it with more bad choices. Hard to pin that on Self but I suppose you can if you want. Self did get in the melee and try and stop him. He wasn't absent once it got out of hand.
A 12 game suspension should be sufficient deterrent to this kind of acts. We have no idea what he's said to the guys behind closed doors regarding taunting, etc.
This is why I'm still worried about the game @ Kstate. Their players, coaches and fans are seeing that outside of 2 players there are no consequences for an entire team attacking a player for taunting. There doesn't appear to be any remorse or reflection from that program into their part in the craziness.
@HighEliteMajor I agree that this is good from Bilas. The only argument I'd really have with it is that the K-State kid who initiated the actual fight portion of the incident should have 12 games as well but since it's starting after he is medically cleared to play maybe it will be close to that.
I've also definitely been guilty of the "kids" stuff. I tend to do that because of the research that's come out around the brain and particularly the development of the pre-frontal cortex (long term thinking/decision making center) in boys/men. You've called me out on this before and the more I think about it the more I think you (and Bilas) are right on this. Accountability is good and calling players kids can work to excuse their actions and ultimately remove their overall agency in the system.
@HighEliteMajor Why should we presume guilt of Silvo? Agree that Self has lost credibility but seems plausible that a non-familial guardian of a high level athlete might not have the athlete's interests 1st. Not saying that's what happened for sure but we certainly don't KNOW what Silvio did or didn't know about.
Agree about the high character guys on this team. I've found it odd that some folks have had trouble enjoying this team or finding reasons to root for em. Lots to love still on this team.
@HighEliteMajor From KU's perspective yeah, but not really the same for the minor. The focus is on Silvio and there is definitely a difference if Silvio didn't know about the payment.
Also, proponents of upping the tempo will not be happy about the pace of these next two games.
Guess we will find out if we are even MORE efficient with 5 guards than we are with 4!
@Kcmatt7 Is @drgnslayr frying some tortillas or baking some thinly sliced potatoes because that smells like a chip.
@Crimsonorblue22 That little clip is just so reminiscent of all the replays to see who touched it last. It was within the last 2 minutes of the game so itâs definitely reviewable.
@Texas-Hawk-10 I have zero confidence that the second game of this series will go well. Bruce and his "we will take what they give us" on the punishment, the history of KU @ K-State, and just the overall nastiness that building seems to add to every game we play there. The boos for EVERYTHING, the F KU chants, that stupid Sandstorm song, storming the court, the chickens, this list could go on and on. Not sure the KSU fans are as bad as the Antlers but they sure have their moments. I just don't see that whole situation going well.
@COHawk Itâs what kills me about Marshallâs play angry nonsense. Play to win. Play for joy. Play to get better. Why anger? Cheapest motivator.
@kjayhawks Definitely. Plenty of blame to go around here. Many poor decisions both individual and systematic.
HighEliteMajor said:
kjayhawks said:
@bskeet yep @Texas-Hawk-10 said he claimed to have pulled them off but this wasnât the last few seconds and the steal, it was the whole time our walk ons were in. They still had starters in, Weberâs stupidity is definitely in play here.
Uh, no. Block the shot, high five your teammates, all smiles, game over. Easy.
Completely agree. A controlled response that doesnât insult the other person is always the best decision.
mayjay said:
@benshawks08 I learned a long time ago. Very simple. Rule # 1: Run. Rule #2: If running doesn't work, make a joke. Rule #3: If joke doesn't work, see Rule #1.
This works for sure. But a lot of boys have real and very deep pain. Humor can be an outlet for that pain but can also further bury it. Weâve gotta make it ok for men to talk about what they are feeling, how they are hurting so that the boys can see it and learn from it. We gotta change what it means to âman up.â
@Gorilla72 Totally agree. Weâve done a really poor job at teaching males how to deal with humiliation, frustration, and anger. Myself included.