🏀 KuBuckets Archive

kjayhawks said:

I’m sure ESPN is putting all on us, yet covering for Grayson being a complete nut case.

Wonder why that is?

jayballer73 said:

the return trip to Manhattan should be ummm - - - -interesting to say the least

Beat me to it!

This is going to be a nightmare in bramlidge.

HighEliteMajor said:

I wonder if Silvio will be suspended with or without pay?

Ok that’s funny

@HighEliteMajor It’s disgusting to think violence is a reasonable response to embarrassment? I thought you were against violence. Do you have a response other than crying leftist?

BigBad said:

Who the F brought up race....GEEZ

That’d be the guy with the whole thread about how black culture is inherently violent.

BigBad said:
MANY men would fight out of embarrassment.

Ding ding ding! There it is. Toxic masculinity for the win.

@mayjay Bird was as dirty as any of em!

BigBad said:

FarmerJayhawk said:

Bill didn’t boot Brady for a DUI. He’s not booting Silvio.

Dude that is an awful comparison. DUIs happen all the time. Brawls in college basketball are rare.

But which is really more dangerous?

@BeddieKU23 Honestly it’s us more than the NBA or anyone else that’s the problem. This stuff gets views, gets clicks, gets replayed over and over. We the American consumer are the problem. We all know and say it’s not what we want but our eyeballs say otherwise.

🐦 View Tweet?s=21

Of course Nick Krug got THE pic.

@BeddieKU23 WWE and basketball are not a good combo.

@Kubie Tristan at the 5.

@approxinfinity Ha. Just thinking about that fool myself!

The people responsible are the ones who did it. There are other factors obviously. Greyson Allen started more fights than most college basketball teams out together.

@BigBad Just as big an idiot as someone who would blame black guys. That’s the point.

@HighEliteMajor “Thank you, DeSousa, standing over our opponent like a thug helps prove a point. Look, this is destructive. It’s a cancer. It’s infected all of sports. Where did all this come from? I wonder.”
Professional wrestling most likely. A sport watched primarily by young white men.

Whatever man. Free your soul.

@HighEliteMajor Who seems more full of hate right now? Think about that.

Who is blaming others? You can only blame black people and leftists for ruining this country. I’ve come to understand you blame black people for the violence. What exactly is the left responsible for? How has the left hurt you recently? What would you like to blame them for?

@HighEliteMajor
benshawks08 said:

@HighEliteMajor
benshawks08 said:

@HighEliteMajor
from Muslim apologist Obama?

Tell me more about what you mean by Muslim apologist. I’m honestly curious.

Still curious on this one.

Still nothin?

HighEliteMajor said:

@benshawks08 Run along now before I drop your britches and spank you bright red, little one.

A clear anti-violence response of a man who “values life.”

@HighEliteMajor Classy. You sure the white man built it? Might check the history books to see who really did the labor and might while you’re there see how much they got paid for it.

@HighEliteMajor No, you can’t claim the moral high ground and criticize the culture of a race of people and their mistreatment of women and then make jokes about women’s breasts. I mean you can. No one is stopping you. But it is hypocritical. That doesn’t seem to be an issue for you so keep at it. But I will continue to call it out when you do. And when you write racist rants and whenever else I want to write what I think, leftist, centrist, or rightist (? We don’t really have a word for that huh). I will continue to try my best to treat you and your ideas with respect and engage in good faith argument. I would argue that white supremacy is far more dangerous to our country and our souls than whatever you think leftism is. But you do you, man.

@drgnslayr What? No chip? It's tough to develop a chip with a team like KSU coming to town. But lord knows they are going to have one. Little brothers always have a chip (I say that as a younger sibling).

Are you saying they just need to "go have fun"?

This one is one of my favorites and not one of the more well known,
“But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear?… It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.”

@HighEliteMajor
benshawks08 said:

@HighEliteMajor
from Muslim apologist Obama?

Tell me more about what you mean by Muslim apologist. I’m honestly curious.

Still curious on this one.

@HighEliteMajor Amazing that this is the moral high ground you stand atop looking down on others.

@Crimsonorblue22 It’s fine when he does it. You see he’s white so in his mind that means he is above black people. To him they are all rappers and thugs. The hate u give, right? It just blows me away that someone who likes the Jayhawks as much as I do could be a white supremacist (Pretty sure this is the first time I’ve called HEM a name but at this point he’s earned it). Guess it means I shouldn’t really generalize about a large group of people. Maybe we should all try that.

@HighEliteMajor Pain killers is actually a good analogy. For most people pain killers are medicine. Something that soothes and dampens pain. I would say that’s what music can do too.

To your second point all I can really say is, you see that’s racist, right? You see yourself generalizing and perpetuating negative stereotypes about people based solely on race, don’t you?

Third, I’m not sure where you’ve seen me advocating for violence or that violent criminals shouldn’t face consequences. Are there other factors influencing that violence that need to be addressed? Definitely. Is rap music top among them. Of course it isn’t. Generational poverty, systematic oppression, those seem a bit higher on the list of priorities.

Lastly, I do sleep well at night, thank you very much. I do my best to look for the best in people and treat others with kindness as much as I can and I have nice sheets.

HighEliteMajor said:

If I was a UK fan I'd drive my car off a cliff. That's what I'd do. But I'd sneak a peak at Ashley Jugs, er, Judd before doing that.

You could try being a decent human being...

@HighEliteMajor Pretty sure “massaging players’ egos” is a fairly large part of Self’s job. You can’t complain about “transfer u,” “not developing talent for next year,” and Self giving DM minutes. He’s not even getting huge minutes!

You have no way of knowing whether David or Moss will have more of an influence on this team winning a national championship. Can you honestly say Moss has a higher ceiling than David? Does Moss give us a better chance of winning games right now? Sure. But I thought that didn’t matter to you.

We’ve seen Mosses best game. He can make six threes and score 20 points. David can go for 28 and 10 and totally dominate a game. Is he doing that every night? No. But he can. He has the higher ceiling and needs to be getting minutes. I personally would rather they happen at the beginning of the game than the end but I can see it both ways.

@drgnslayr 100% agree! The numbers will never show everything but do tend to be less biased. That’s what I like about the Kenpom rankings is that he doesn’t actually rank anyone. He sets up an algorithm that he thinks gives the best picture of how good a team is compared to other teams based on the numbers he values (efficiency mostly) and then basically just does math every night to update the picture.

I can’t say it’s any worse then other folks who will leave Gonzaga at #1 until they lose another game. Every “eye test” and “gut feeling” is uncontrollably biased. The only ranking that actually matters is done by the tournament committee as it controls who plays who and who could potentially run into who. Even then, if a team wins 6 games they are number 1. The end. Even if that team wasn’t “the best team” they are the champs.

@BeddieKU23 I just don't think Self will go to a press. I'm trying to remember the last time I saw KU run any real press other than token full court man to man. What is a trap? I don't seem to remember seeing one! Is it that he hates the press being broken for an easy basket so much that he can't make himself do it? If that were the case though, wouldn't we score easier baskets against teams that press us (we DON'T)?

HighEliteMajor said:

@BeddieKU23 Well, yes, I do know that TT made the FF. Since OK St. made it in 2004, only OU in '16 and TT in '19 have made the FF from the Big 12 other than KU - '08, '12, '18. That is simply horrible. 15 seasons. 60 spots. And the Big 12 fills those spots just 5 times. Only 8.3% of the FF participants were Big 12.

Just to add some other final four appearance numbers for comparison, this decade (if my counting is correct)
ACC - 7 Teams Not Duke or NC - 1 (Virginia)
B10 - 7 Teams Not MSU/MU - 2 (Wisconsin twice and OSU)
SEC - 7 Teams Not UK/Louisville - 2 (SC and Auburn)
Big East - 7 Teams not UConn/Nova/Syracuse - 1 (West Virginia)
B12 - 4 - Teams not KU - 2 (OU and TT)

Seems to me that the Big 12 is missing that second team to hang with Kansas and help put up banners.

The Big 10 and Big East appear to be the most balanced conferences but also take into account the Big 12 with only 10 teams is by far the smallest. If you add in WV to the big 12 that takes us to 5 and the big east down to 6. And now that I think about it I'm not sure if Syracuse's most recent was with the ACC or Big East?

@HighEliteMajor What are 12 other teams with offense better than KU based on your feelings? Villanova, Duke, and Dayton are the three teams ahead of us in offense that we've played. That makes sense to me but Duke at 3rd should show how down offense is this year. That team we played was not an elite offensive team by normal standards but this year, who is better?

KenPom is a completely feelingless ranking. It's all numbers. It always baffles me when people talk about KenPom favoring one team over another or gives a conference too much credit. The ranking (especially the pure offense and defensive rank) is pretty simply based on a team's offensive and defensive efficiency based on points per possession. Is KU's offense as good this year as in years past? Probably not, but the ranking is not comparing that, it is comparing to other teams this year.

@BShark I guess I'm not smart enough to figure out what this chart says or means.

@BeddieKU23 Be interesting to see Dunk stats for this years team. Seems like we are getting our fair share...

@drgnslayr I think it has to be a balance. In education we hear a lot about being a "warm demander" and how that creates an environment that fosters learning and motivates students. A motivator needs some warmth to create a relationship so that the person cares enough to try for that person. With your examples your saying Self brings the warmth while Marshall brings the demanding.

Wright seems to have a good balance of that right now for the athletes he's bringing to campus.

The difficulty is that every person is different. Some people respond to negative consequences and stimuli. Threaten them, tell them they can't do it, insult their pride, call them soft etc. Point out their weakness and they will work their butt off to never show that weakness again. In general these are people who care about reputation, perception, collaboration, and mostly external pressures. People use anger, and fear of shame as motivation.
When I think about KU players who fit this mold I think about Frank Mason. He seemed to be all about proving people wrong. Early Frank wasn't good enough finishing at the rim/ he fixed it. Then he wasn't a good enough 3 pt. shooter/ he fixed it. Is he too small for the league? Got drafted/played some for a few years.

Some people if you do any of that stuff will shut you out or even shut down completely.

Others respond to positive reinforcement and stimuli. Praise them for something they do right and they will do it over and over again and will work tirelessly to earn that praise. Often these are people who are more internally motivated and don't respond to shame well. These people may not directly address their weaknesses but are much better at playing to their strengths. I think about Devonte as an example for KU players. "Go out there and have fun" would have been a great pre-game speech for him. watch him play basketball and you can't help but see the positivity, the joy. Devonte came in as a good passer and a decent shooter. He just continued (and continues in the NBA) to grow in both those areas.

I don't think one kind of player is naturally better than the other nor is a person always one or the other. Our brains are elastic and heavily impacted by our mood and surroundings. Most people are somewhere in the middle and fluctuate in between.

@drgnslayr KU as an underdog is a tough sell. At WSU it is an easy sell. I agree that Nova and Wright are intriguing. At 6500 students Nova is a smaller school but no one would argue Nova (and that other small school we lost to this year but won't name) are underdogs in basketball. I would guess Wright could be selling the fact that they aren't a traditional blue blood. I think more than your "chip" is the preparation associated with Nova. Now I don't watch every Nova game but when they've played KU they seem to have a superior game plan and are better prepared to execute that plan. That definitely builds confidence which translates to better play.

@drgnslayr You will always be the "Chip" guy to me! I hate that you bring up Marshall but that's just because I can't stand him as a person for the reasons you point out. Your post reminds me of another Jaybate classic, the "no amp," "medium amp," and "full amp" theory he had about Self motivating teams for games. If I remember correctly it was based on a quote from Self where he said something about dividing the season into 3 types of games, the ones you play poorly, the games you play amazing, and the middle section which is "who you are." He theorized that Self tried to manipulate scenarios to get the poorly played games when he wanted them and at times when he could still win the game.

If we use this idea I would say Self's biggest coaching error for Baylor was "amping" the team for the road game at Iowa State (evidence in big win, lots of dunks, high energy from players) and hoping that the marque match-up with the top 5 team in the Phog would be enough to get the players to that mid-amp and that would be enough to beat Drew whose teams usually fold in Allen. If you pay attention to the pregame huddle, Self's last words were "go have fun" (reading lips). Not the most intense energy for 2 v. 3 with B12 championship implications.

Several things aligned causing this strategy to fail.
1. ISU is just sooooo bad that even Hilton Magic can't save them. We heard Self post game talking about how that wasn't really Iowa State and not representative about what playing there is really like. He was surprised they and their building didn't put up much of a fight. He wasted a good motivational speech and a few "wrinkles" that gave the team confidence going into the game.
2. Nagging injuries and bad weather helped foster a low energy environment from the team and the building against Baylor.
3. Baylor didn't fold. They were pumped, they were ready, they maintained their intensity the whole game and responded to KU's feeble attempts at a run in the second half.

Self hoped for a game that showed "who we are." Let's hope this game actually falls into that bottom third for this year.

The crazy thing about post feeds this year is that Doke generally has really good hands. If he goes and gets even marginal passes with two hands, he's going to get em. Once he gets position, he's not likely to lose it. He is also growing in his ability to pass out of those double and triple teams IF and this is a big IF he feels he's getting the ball regularly. He can get frustrated later in the game and force the issue if the guards haven't gotten him a look all game.

Against ISU he had a few really good big to big passes and a couple kick outs as well. If teams are going to swarm Doke like Baylor, we still need to get him the ball and get him 6 assists instead of 6 dunks.

Good passing is as much the result of the player receiving the pass as the passer themselves. I think on top of being hesitant to let the pass go, our guards aren't great at seeing when the man will be open. They notice once he is open but by then the D has time to recover. On top of that, some of the guys are still struggling to get open and find the space. Baylor guards were able to guard up to 3 guys at the same time most of the Baylor game. One guy usually had his man, Doke, and often a passing lane to another player whose man was also shading Doke. I saw several times when two guards were standing on the three point line about 5 feet away from each other. Easy to guard, hard to pass to.

@BeddieKU23 Just so we are clear, I hope that too! Love the kid! He's a blast to watch and you can see every play how much he cares and tries.

Another question: Would it help Doke's stock if once every game he took a shot from the top of the key? I assume he would miss most of them, but just knowing he would get one a game, would that skill develop? If he made one or two could it get put on a highlight real and help his stock? Would a scout see it and think, "we can make that work"?

BeddieKU23 said:

Just to keep on the optimistic train here if your a NBA scout that evaluated Doke during the spring what were the things you would have wanted to see him improve this season. Let's list a few.

1. Rebounding

2. Rim Protection

3. Guarding the perimeter/in space

4. Ability to play extended Minutes

5. Improved body/finish a season healthy

6. Shooting, extended range, FT's.

7. Post Game

Now 13 games in..

1. Rebounding- Averaging a career best 8.9 boards. In a stretch where he's averaging 11 per game.

2. Rim Protection- Averaging a career best 2.2 blocks per game. Just had a career best 6 blocks against WVU.

3. Guarding the Perimeter- Still a major weakness

4. Playing Extended Minutes- Averaging a career best 26.8 minutes per game.

5. Improved Body/staying healthy- Shed over 40 pounds coming into the season. So far so good on his health.

6. Shooting- Major weakness. No range, still can't shoot FT's.

7. Post Game- Still raw, probably the best Self has ever had at establishing position, driving his man up the paint and establishing where he wants to be to get his angles and Dunks.

Besides his obvious weaknesses of Shooting from anywhere outside 4 feet and being able to guard bigs out to the perimeter he's improved everywhere else. The guy is going to break the NCAA record for FG% in a season and in a career. Analytically I'm wondering if a team is going to be intrigued by how effective he is around the basket. He's making 87% of his shots at the rim. That's not just above average, its borderline insane. I can see him being a backup C in the league somewhere, not heavy minutes but someone that gets in here and there. The NBA is a long season and guys get chances due to injuries and what not. He's not going to magically stop dunking the ball on people in the league. Just some thoughts

I just worry that those two big weaknesses make him almost unplayable in the NBA. Let's just compare to Joel Embiid (someone he'd likely be guarding at the 5 position). Embiid wasn't canning threes at KU but his shooting form and progression showed potential to improve his range. Doke just hasn't shown ANY of that.

I wonder if Doke is almost hampered by his own success. He's so good at bullying people, getting position, and scoring in close at this level that it's hard for him to even develop other skills. For KU this year, why would he do anything else? Dunk, dunk, baby hook, dunk, hook, GAME! What is even more concerning is most of those dunks and easy buckets are coming off lobs and passes over the top as he moves his man up the lane. He maybe has one or two times a game where we throw it to him in the post, he makes a move and scores, and when that happens if we are honest, it isn't all that pretty most of the time. WV just leaned on his left shoulder and he didn't have a counter.

Real question (meaning it's a question I don't have a good answer to): Would Doke have been better off in a different program that doesn't focus so much on angles and team concepts to get easy buckets and instead gave him more license to develop individual skills?

@jayballer73 Interesting stat I noticed was that Braun is already up to 9 offensive rebounds. Our best offensive rebounding guard total is currently Ochai with 12! To compare: Ochai has played more than double Braun's minutes. Kid has a nose for the ball.

Another telling stat on Braun for me is his 2-8 Free Throw numbers. It stands out to me not because I think he's a bad free throw shooter with a poor percentage but because I think it demonstrates more than any other stat how he is still just getting comfortable playing at this level. It shows how nerves are still a factor, shows he may be hesitating to attack some, and that his ceiling is still so far away!

This kid is going to annoy the crap out of opposing fans in the next few years!

@BShark Agbaji isn't getting the same recognition defensively but he is quickly approaching lock down level as well. He is really good at using his body and athleticism to guard players 1-4. I don't get nervous when he ends up on a big or if a play-making guard is trying to go to work on him. He's really good off the ball and according to some stuff I've been reading from Jesse, seems to get the team defense concepts well and is playing to scouting reports! I've noticed when MG comes out OA usually takes the other team's best player and sometimes even with MG on the floor.

@drgnslayr We definitely have the tools and the mentality is coming along as well. Jesse Newell had an interesting write up that apparently the defensive game plan was just wrong coming into the game and that's what led to 17-17 score. Time out and reverting to the defensive principal of clogging the lane on pick and rolls and strategically shying off poor shooters is what broke the game open. Jesse quoted Self from the side lines yelling "load up" after that time out and showed nice screen grabs of Doke and Ochai getting feet in the paint to clog the lane and really take Iowa State's lotto pick, triple double, scoring machine point guard out of his game.

The other thing Self was coaching was high hands to discourage passes to those strategically open players.

I'm optimistic that this team could make those adjustments on the fly like that but nervous that either the scout was bad or the players' ability to execute the game play may be lacking.

I still think this team goes as Devon does on both ends. If he is feeling good and fighting hard on D it sets the tone. I always look to see what Dotson does with the first few screens. If he fights over or slips under and recovers quickly it's going to be a good game. If he passively switches leaving Doke out to dry, or goes under and feigns an attempt to get back out to the shooter, could be a long night. I'm hoping he was just nicked up or sick or something for a short stretch and is feeling better now.

@KirkIsMyHinrich A closer look at our strength of schedule numbers from Kenpom was illuminating. We have overall the strongest schedule to date with our opponents' defense far and away the strongest. That should be contributing to what we see as this team struggling offensively and the numbers showing our offense near top ten. We have been playing teams with good defense and that's not going to change. As a fan I personally love our strength of schedule because it means every game seems to matter. We are playing really good to decent teams night in and night out so I always have reason to care!

Did we cover?

Iowa State is not good. I know it’s been said but wow.