🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@BShark good for cruitin’

System>>>athletes

But never question mr infallible

Sorry I’ll stick to watching auburn who’d boat race us like usc did heck usc would boat race us still got a mobley

@approxinfinity what happens when no one else is an offensive threat

Where is Braun

Post up Dave gtfo Bill it is what got us here sub him in and we all of the sudden gotta force feed him

@BShark welcome aboard lots of room on the Bill self in fact can’t be wrong about lineups train

@DanR we got a 1 man offensive show...that never bodes well in March
A pg who teams don’t guard
A defense that isn’t aggressive like tech

Texas tech has more athletes than we do......a blue blood

@DanR said in Payback Tech Game Thread:

Dave can't jump high enough to goal tend
Lol ain’t that the truth

@approxinfinity yet took ya this long to see Harris ain’t gonna lead us to anywhere and guess what you’re smarter than self he still has no friggin clue with this team like many others in years past

Let Self tell u that after the game and eat it up like all the other dorky fans

@approxinfinity hahaha

@Kcmatt7 not those two they defended him two weeks ago saying what anyone with a brain can see coming from a mile away. Harris isn’t taking us anywhere against legit teams. Against Louisiana tech sure we look good but that’s when he should have been playing the better talent letting them work through it

@FarmerJayhawk you surprised it’s what you and @BShark want as Bill can do no wrong followers.

Tech is legit athletically and smart they expose dajuan by stripping his weak handle and not guarding him then going right at him all game on d

Braun has been awful no surprise when he doesn’t have the athletic advantage

Dick will sit behind next year cause self gonna self!

@BeddieKU23 best on ball defender yet can’t see the floor. Thought self prided defense...nah only feeding the post which oh wait he drives and has proper lobs to Dave too.

Well he can’t buy a bucket...yeah we sure gave Harris that same leash as every team sagged off him...not the same for Joe

From reading this thread what I gather is we aren’t athletic enough to play d or play fast and we have rolled the same guys out there after Bill absolutely trashed the team and state of the program with the usc beatdown.

He then trotted out the same crew but with dajuan at pg and figured “this should fix it....system beats talent any day”

I said round of 32 or sweet 16 beatdown but that’s if we even get there

@BShark talent and athletes. Then have the play them.

Talent trumps system every time except in selfs mind.

@Marco said in Non-KU Games:

@BShark Yeah, pretty tough sec this year.

Who’s the guy from the other thread that said I need to “go enjoy my sec game” when I said auburn is legit and Bama - auburn was a much higher level of talent that what we’ve been watching?

@benshawks08 @drgnslayr agreed if 1,2 and 4 happen 11-7 goes to 13-4 in my mind real quick.

Jalen was so good to start last year and he’s been awful shooting the ball this year. I didn’t know it was possible to be that bad after last year he shot it fine.

Dave is the mystery if he could have some confidence it’d help. He was right in the middle of the huddle locked on coach at the end of the game that he wasn’t even in. That’s solid character really hope he succeeds.

@benshawks08 correct I think it’s the worst team he’s had and without Ochai going off (similar to Vick) we’d be in trouble.

Braun is coming back to earth but it’s a hurt remy and awful Dave that’s killing us.

Also the poster above me outlined why 11-7 because people keep thinking “self will fix this” yet each year is a new year and self can’t play for the players he can only controls who plays. We don’t have the horses this year it’s evident.

@BeddieKU23 yeah I agree not sure where he should go spot wise (don’t care just get that money) just happy for him.

In the nba he’s your typical athletic 3 and D guy. Needs to work on his quickness still laterally and get better defensively but the tools are there. His stroke is so pure he should be a great off the bench guy who knocks down threes and gets that second contract.

@benshawks08 great questions and discussion.

I don’t think people don’t want KU to win the big 12 in hopes it’s better for the ncaa. What people say is play guys those early non con games and let them have a long leash to learn. Best learning is in game on the job think about any job you’ve had. You can practice and practice but until you’re in it you won’t learn the best from mistakes.

Goal is ncaa title always. Big 12 mini goal as a stepping stone.

14 games must be won
We lose road games against top half of big 12 teams (Tech, Texas, Baylor, ou/isu)
Must win - every single home game must hold serve at home. Self’s system with winning league (which is winning on the road always holds true because we have been so dominate at home). Must split with the top 4 teams I listed.

Texas Tech and Texas then OU-ISU are next up if not Baylor. We are right there with OU-ISU in my mind. If ISU could not turn it over so much they’d be even more dominate. They turn people over like crazy but are then just as careless with it. Need two ball handlers like we had in graham-mason.

11-7 is our final record
Baylor-Tech-UT (unless Beard losses his team)- KU - OU/ISU

@BeddieKU23 I want to agree but recent history is we don’t and we don’t have the horses this year playing what Bill expected (Dave).

@BeddieKU23 he deserves it all. Shot is so pure...works his tail off and has learned to get his head and shoulders by guys (get low) when he drives and explode at the rim. Oh and he has the pull up game if defense slides as he doesn’t get called for charges....and last but not least he is the best off the pick on the wing from a big knocking down the 12-15 footer we’ve had in years. Literally a staple of nba wing play.

Dudes flat out a stud and is a better human being.

Glad Self pulled the redshirt when he did lol pretty funny we say coaches don’t look at rankings well we got Ochai here by luck and then after a half a season of practice he literally made it impossible for Bill not to pull the shirt!

@Kcmatt7 white, grimes, Tristan and biggest one Gethro.

Gethro with Drew would thrive he’d be given opportunity, miss defensive assignments but learn and do that early in the year in games we win either way. Game experience is the best Self can’t wrap his brain around this.

Gethro is 6’10 230 and long and athletic. Rim run, set screens, dunks, dump offs and put backs. You want to get to the league well this is what you do here.....look at Thamba at Baylor identical.

Gethro at UNM averaged 9.8 ppg and 5.1 boards on 19.8 mpg.

I get we say “he couldn’t get minutes here” and yet look what we are running out there.

Here’s the reality. Self plays favorites based on who he trusts. How he comes to the trust conclusions no one but self knows. Practice, summer league whatever it is....it isn’t games for this trust.

Quick leash for those he doesn’t and stunted growth.
Long leash for those he trusts and can do no wrong even if turnovers or bad shots are taken.

Apply it to remy, grimes, gethro whoever.

He didn’t make Grimes better....Sampson did that.

I can add Cheick too. He couldn’t “grasp” bills system or whatever your insiders claim close to the program. He’s in the wrong spot whatever yet he isn’t played through it against cream puffs he’s relegated to the bench.

Everyone who’s followed KU knows Self prioritizes system over better athletes and potential so that entails the system is literally stopping better players with higher ceilings to improve and REACH that ceiling in season.

@Marco that’s just wrong and ridiculous.

Frank played 33, 33 and 36 his last three years here.

Dtae’ played 32, 35 and 37

Get out of here with our best lead guard shouldn’t play 30 mpg this is asinine

@BShark that seems like an ignorant comment especially at this time.

How’s the team look? Are the majority of our players playing their best ball? Are they maximizing their potential? We need all 5 guys a threat to score and a three headed monster to win the big 12.

How’s Dave look? Does he look like end of year Dave who carried us the second half against the groves bro’s?

Ochai should shoot the most
Braun and Remy 2a and 2b (Braun disappears against better athletes and he’s too hot and cold).

@Crimsonorblue22 agreed no doubt about that. For him to be coached to change his game this drastically was a mistake.

Self wants guys to play with a free mind and just go play but system takes precedent over freedom to play. Similar to what I’ve pointed out in the game thread. If och comes down goes 1 on 5 and shoots Self isn’t mad or yanking him. Go watch any early games and tell me what happened with Remy. Remy plays less minutes than Harris and they took the ball out of his hands. I guess going undefeated in open gyms means more to a HOF coach than actual D1 games that were played. Never knew summer league practice would carry more weight than a years of games and resume’ a guy like remy had built up.

@approxinfinity said in ISU Game Thread:

@kuballin10 he’s also dominated the ACC. I think defense wins you ballgames, it’s just harder to get red hot for 6 games when you hang your hat on D.

Defense wins ballgames but it’s harder to do for 6 games??? Somehow defense helps you win just not enough?.....so you’re saying being a better offense team will mean you win more? That I can agree it’s the age old adage of basketball give me 5 gifted offensive players and I’ll teach them to be dogs and play D. If you give me 5 defense players they won’t get it done because I can’t create in them offensive skill set. I can draw up plays for easy buckets but if you can’t “go get yours” as the best for KU have done then we aren’t winning crap.

Do you ever wonder if guys like Self would have won more titles staying at a program like Illinois where you aren’t expected to land top 50 guys? Where you might have same level talent for a year sometimes 2 longer?

For Self 1000% agree he’s better off having guys stay 3-4 years so he can feel like he trusts them in his system and quits his short leash/quick hook deal. So yes, he’d be better off at a place like Illinois especially with the chitown connection.

I should add his 1 title was with upper classman. How often do stud freshman arrive only not to play how we expected them to come in or the minutes or a senior less athletic/potential gets minutes over them? That’s happened time and time again here so your logic is dead on.

@rockchalkwyo great post.

Yes, Self has no choice because Dave’s been that bad. The issue is we need good Dave to even remotely have a chance for the big 12 and ncaa title.
I thought after Dave’s showing in stilly we’d see him start any ideas why Self didn’t give him the go after the good performance?

It’d been the perfect atta boy based on him winning his job back. Dave when we aren’t required to post feed him is better than Mitch. When we play UK Oscar is going to eat Mitch and kj alive. Dave is our only hope.

If you want to hit on big transfers they system can’t be so complex they can’t pick it up easily. Remy’s played plenty of ball it shouldn’t take over half the season for him to go back to bring aggressive remy. That’s poor coaching.

Same issue though with recruiting and stud freshman staying. Self is extremely likeable but other coaches can sell against him easily with his track record and loyalty to his way and his system.

Remy came in with a me first attitude and got called on it. He bought in and started having fun winning then he got hurt. End of that story.

• feel free to share where on earth you got that story from as it couldn’t be further from the truth. Remy came here because he loved KU (always wanted to play here we turned him down) and wanted to be coached by the best (Hurley sucks), to improve his overall game. The thought process that he must completely forget about scoring and only distribute and defend like he’s Harris is where this coaching staff went very wrong. Kids so good he can buy in and be above it all even when he can see it ain’t what he signed up for. He is unselfish as they come can play with multiple stars just because he didn’t at asu because they were awful.... people have no clue about his attitude that is claimed. Self wanted Remy to do it his way...Self got what he wanted and now is realizing what he wanted and asked was dead wrong and why he didn’t utilize Remy like the last three stud lead guards (Dotson, graham and mason) no one will ever know but self.

Say what you want about Harris but he makes plays in crunch time. Game winner tonight, diving steal the other day. He’s a gamer. Nothing flashy but all heart. I see why self loves him. Sad you don’t. Basketball is fun. Watching basketball is fun. Makes me sad for you that you can’t enjoy an exciting win over a top 15 team.

• He made one clutch play yes, let’s not go overboard. If you think we can win it all with him you are going to be sadly mistaken. This is Kansas the expectations are supposed to be different.

No one is going to accuse this team of peaking too early in the conference season. That’s for sure! But it will be interesting to see how they turn out in late February, March, and hopefully April.

• I agree we definitely aren’t peaking too early.

@Kcmatt7 25 mpg....you know there’s 40 minutes played right? You remember how remy was supposed to come here and be the alpha? That attacking mentality.

Check what senior Frank and senior Graham’s mpg were and get back to me.

Before remy was hurt he still wasn’t planning even close to the 35 mpg he should have been.

When Harris is getting more minutes than the stud transfer and all American then something is drastically wrong with the guy calling the shots.

@Kcmatt7 appreciate the input.

Should have tried this earlier but that’s been said plenty.

The proof I’d have is guys are leaving our program and bring more successful elsewhere. They have longer leashes, play with confidence ect. You’ll get the rebuttal of they weren’t KU material well they are at other D1 schools excelling. The goal as a coach is to have guys play their absolute best and when they do that elsewhere and not here that’s something that needs to be examined.

Nobody likes the teachers pet imagine how that feels being a player on the team watching the coach have 1-2 when you aren’t the favored one yet more talented and a way higher ceiling. I’d transfer too.

@wissox great analysis. I agree and think had Bill loosened the leash early on in the non-con these guys he’s now stuck playing because those who he thought would lead are so bad...we’d then be better off and more prepared.

Same thing this board, TOS and countless fans have said about him for years. It’s catching up to him his lack of adapting.

Transfer rules, one and done, it’s no surprise it hurts him because he wants to make you buy in to his system and you have to earn his trust otherwise it’s quick leash in games and zero learning experience.

@Crimsonorblue22 if that was the case with Self why didn’t Remy play more minutes and why was his hook so quick?

What I don’t get is why self trusts lesser talented players instead of riding the guys who can get him to a title.

Remy came here having been the man at asu I get gunning it like crazy. He didn’t do that his freshman year he wasn’t the guy but he was a stud as we witnessed at AFH.

Where did that player go? The guy who could beat his man and make other guys better?

Akinjo went 1-7 from deep tonight Baylor lost but drew trusted him and he’s been letting him shoot all year.

We did the same with graham and mason self trusted them. Why does self not trust remy? Because he had a couple loose shots in fall practice? He’s gonna carry you to a title and Bill treated him like a freshman he needed to “break”.

The issue is self. If he likes you then you hardly ever take a bad shot and no quick hook. If he doesn’t like you any shot that he deems quick or not within the offense is bad. Mason and graham, akinjo and whoever come down on breaks jack wide open 3’s. Majority of the time they go in we win and move on. Self in his mind to break remy of bad shots stripped him of his aggression in scoring what we desperately need right now.

Not remy’s Dad by any means but I’m connected with some asu alumn’s who are pretty in touch with the situation (Hurley’s a joke everyone knows that).

Had remy went to duke, uk, unc you think he’d shoot this little?

Can you fathom graham or mason not shooting at all for an entire half? Thst was remy against msu. Unfathomable.

@Crimsonorblue22 assumed the clown reference is me. Again just throwing jabs not talking ball. Just proves my point.

I’m throwing out reasons on why the team has struggled not just this year but last year as well (you all never miss a game I’m sure like myself). The way we play, defensively and offensively along with what’s been said, adjustments that haven’t been made and then results again aren’t acceptable.

For the “we are a top 10-15 team and right there to win big 12 and elite 8 ceiling” crowd then if that is the new goal yearly for blue bloods let me know we can all adjust our standards.

For self that shouldn’t be the goal but based on how he’s handled things these last two years the buck stops with him.

@rockchalkwyo whether 2-0 or 155-153 just win...however since those aren’t legitimate options let’s look at what maximizes wins.

The better the team the more possessions helps them as they can score and other teams can’t keep up.

The opposite of this is Tony Bennett who I know the majority on this board want nothing to do with because he has his 1 lucky title and then some of the worst losses imaginable.

When you slow the game down and limit possessions you literally play into what an lesser team wants.

@FarmerJayhawk what’s Kenpom weight remy’s effect on the team to win versus his actual output (stats in games played)

If you’re going to go all analyst on me that’s fine appreciate the conversation at least. Haven’t been on the board in years because guys can’t handle a conflicting viewpoint if you don’t bow at the alter of Self. When I tried to pontificate on how the games played or really talk ball others just call names because they haven’t played a day in their life and literally besides name calling or grammar analysis they can’t keep up.

I appreciated HEM because he’d call people out begging for other viewpoints to discuss instead of

“Trust self”
“He can do no wrong”
“You don’t see practice”

We come to this board to discuss if people can’t do that because they have nothing to add then what is the point here?

@BShark solid - now tell me what you think

@DanR tell me you are watching this “sec” game

Pg just came down and dunked it on the Auburn big. We got a guard on our squad who can do that he just doesn’t play

@FarmerJayhawk when half the games are cream puffs it’s irrelevant. Bama and us would be a good game today. They can’t guard but with only two scorers, zero low post threat - we are easily guardable and then don’t guard on the other end

@Crimsonorblue22 no arguments here! I am not a homer you have to see the team for who they are and their potential.

Ochai would have to go Danny and the Miracles for us to make any noise this year unfortunately.

When you favor the system over better potential with players and it’s been noted since the HEM days the frustration level with every lack of a title grows louder (I know dok’s year we got robbed but honestly zero guarantees there. We’d start off throwing it in the post in another final four while some team plays modern ball and lights us up from deep. I don’t think that team gets it done but feel awful Dok was completely robbed of it).

When coach sits down and says we aren’t athletic enough and big changes are made then proceeds to not change the lineup and plays less athletic players over more athletic guys it’s frustrating and there’s zero accountability.

When guys transfer play with freer minds and long leashes and their coaches instill confidence in them while riding them go figure they play better. William doesn’t do that.

@DanR been wrong about what feel free to add more to the conversation? I like talking ball feel free to discuss your thoughts and how you view things.

20 huh? Now you just sound like an arrogant head in the sand ku fan.

Auburn would run us out of the gym if we played them tonight. I hate pearl he cheats everywhere he goes (granted its allowed now) but his teams always can play.

@FarmerJayhawk once we’ve finished the big 12 tourney we can talk about Kenpom.

In the tourney though it’s irrelevant only thing that matters is winning.

I just pointed out the differences in play and you said their D sucks that was it so responded with what you thought about our teams D.

@FarmerJayhawk how about us for the last two years?

@FarmerJayhawk how about auburn?

@DanR you can’t be serious?
Ames is going to be rocking as always when we come to town. If we lose by 5-7 I’ll be surprised. They will make more shots and their crowd will have us on our heels.

If we thought the tech crowd had us turning it over right and left them Ames will be amplified by 2-3 times.

@Crimsonorblue22 turn to this Bama game the speed of the game and amount of dunks and just overall ball being played is night and day different than what we just watched

@Crimsonorblue22 he drives never looking to score and other teams know it. He air balled the three. If anyone thinks he can lead us to a big 12 title or national title they are crazy yet he’s gotten and continues to get all the minutes.

Nice kid, plays hard but how we went from graham, mason, Taylor ect to wanting to have a non scoring, ball distributor who can’t shoot much from deep and allows teams to play 5 on 4

He had 4 TO’s but did take it away 3 times

@Jethro I wondered what he thought all night....probably unc would blast this fake ku team like usc exposed us last year

What a win. Harris doesn’t drive all night until it’s absolutely required and Och gave it up...couldn’t believe that figured he go mono e mono with brockington.

We are gonna get boat raced in Ames and turn it over 25-30 times but glad we held court at home

Anyone watching auburn play Bama? Level of play is night and day different. Auburn has some absolute athletes out there and they all play aggressive no quick yanks or short leashes and it shows

If Joe shot that air all he’d be yanked

If remy came down like och and went 1 on 5 he’d be sat too

I’ll address my poor sentence structure in another message but did Och coming down and going 1 on 5 count as a good shot?

If remy did that he’d be yanked. Self plays favorites and it’s killed this teams title chances for years.

Remy had to change what exactly?
He realizes he isn’t the number 1 scoring option because of Ochai but they can absolutely be a two or three headed monster with Braun. The problem is that was never presented or encouraged by Self with everything said in the media.

Remy’s a great kid and it was assumed he would come in and shoot 20 times a game and be this ball hog...why? You don’t think Remy’s never played on a team where he isn’t the best player or that he can’t recognize he doesn’t have to get 25 every night to have a chance but he can get 15 with 6-7 assists?

That’s where the staff flat out sucked. They made assumptions and any bad shot he took in practice they tried to act like they had to break him of this awful habit which was aggression and being an alpha.

Sure would be nice to have an alpha guard for the season and a tourney but unfortunately Self massively screwed his mind games with the key player up and reaps what he sows.