Oh boy, I hate this.

You are in our thoughts and prayers, big guy. Heal quickly.

@MoonwalkMafia Lol - I feel like I'm having one of "those" arguments with my wife. We're both right and neither one of us is backing down.

When I started this thread, it was slow and I was bored and I figured any mention of CW would at least get a conversation started.

Mission accomplished. I guess.

@MoonwalkMafia So everyone that transfers from one school to another is mediocre. We got a LOT of mediocrity out there!

Now what we were originally debating about? Oh yeah, Charlie Weis. Let me back up a few years and tell you that I was one of the (foolish) few who argued that we should keep Turner Gill. Had we done that, where do you think we'd be right now? We'd be winning 3 games per season and have about 87 people in the stands at home games. Before halftime.

If things don't change very quickly, that's where we'll be with Coach Weis.

@MoonwalkMafia Now you're the one being clueless. They weren't " mediocre " until they got to KU (and FYI, Charlie Weis is the coach of KU so he has something to do with their performance once they arrive here).

If you actually read , instead of reading into, I said I was close to falling off the bandwagon. I've not given up hope completely. At the same time, I'm not convinced that he shouldn't sell insurance or be a stand up comic.

@MoonwalkMafia I think you should tell us how you really feel.....

@MoonwalkMafia Was the whole rest of the country wrong about Heaps and Crist?

(I had to google Crist - that's how much impact he made. Two years from now, I'll google Heaps if I want to remember something about him)

So, what made two 5 star quarterbacks ( that's 10 stars!! ) turn to mush when they landed in Lawrence, Ks?

Weis may be the greatest coach since Lombardi, but he's keeping it a big secret so far. Maybe this is the year he's gonna pull the rabbit out of the hat.......or disappear.

Bye Guys! Best of luck to you, wherever you go. I hope you can find a place that will utilize your talents and where you can win more than 2 or 3 games in your college careers.

I'm REAL close to falling off the CW Bandwagon.....

@KUSTEVE WHOA Brother! Remember, Jethro graduated at the top of his class at Oxford.

His sixth grade class at Oxford, Mississippi. And he was " at the top " because he was the tallest student in his class.

Just sayin.....

@ralster lol - i don't know if Forte can dunk or not, but he can dunk it pretty well from 19-30 feet !

@Crimsonorblue22 No joke! It makes me sick that he didn't come here - I guess he got over his lack of confidence!

@JayHawkFanToo Actually, Forte was offered by KU. I'm not saying this in any kind of name-dropping way, just as a matter of fact - I've known the Fortes for 25 years. When " little Phil " was a sophomore in High School, " big Phil (an ex KU football player, btw) told me that his son was getting some offers from not so well known colleges. Then when he was a junior, people were starting to take notice. By the time he was a senior, he was in the hunt for some pretty good basketball schools. Big Phil told me that he was offered by KU, but after consideration decided not to go there. He LOVES KU, said his room is like a shrine to all things KU, but he didn't have enough confidence in himself and didn't think he could make a contribution at KU. He wanted to go somewhere where he could get some significant playing time. Big Phil told me - he's good, but he ain't KU good.

Good call, Big Phil.....

@Crimsonorblue22 No maybe about it - Smart and Forte were a package deal, no matter where they went. I think they both would have looked good in Crimson and Blue. And Smart most likely wouldn't have acted the fool under Coach Self.

I originally had in mind a Top 5 favorites, but it can't be done. Like many of you, I just LOVE so many of them and for different reasons.

Kirk, Scot Pollard, Billy Thomas, Aaron Miles, Jerod Haase, Calvin Thompson......aaaarggggh - there's so many!

But one group I originally forgot to mention -

Any player who stayed at KU for 4 years (or more) !

To flip the coin of drgnslayr's thread from a couple of days ago - who are your favorite Jayhawks players and coaches of all time and why?

Everything favorite about KU basketball, for me, starts with Wilt. After that:

1) Danny Manning. The guy is just a prince. Intelligent, humble, honest, incredibly talented. Top notch dude.

2) Nick Collison. Same reasons.

3) Jacque Vaughn. Same reasons again.

4) Raef LaFrentz. I'm starting to see a trend here.

5) Paul Pierce. More of the same.

I guess my guys are all going to have the same attributes, so I won't list any more. I could have listed about a hundred other guys that fit the same mold, but you guys help me out please.

Favorite coaches - Bill Self, Roy Williams, Ted Owens. I had to list Ted because he was he coach when I was growing up and started loving Jayhawk basketball.

@wissoxfan83 You know - I HAVE seen better bus drivers in my day....lol

This won't be a popular answer, but honestly, my biggest disappointment concerning KU basketball was Bill Self this year. I felt with the talent we had (possibly 2 of the top 3 NBA draft picks....), his stubborness led to the worst season we've had since he started. Ten losses (that hurts to even type it) is not acceptable in my view for any modern era KU team.

@justanotherfan Good call on Giddens. I had forgotten about him ( or blocked him from my memory ). Also Lester Earl - it's been quite a while, but they were really high on him, we were all salivating just waiting for his first game - the air was let out of our balloons pretty quickly.

A true point guard is a coach on the floor. Self doesn't want to give up any power - therefore we have no point guards.

A little sour? Yeah - it's 5:34 in the morning. But I still think it's true.

@JayhawkRock78 Great minds............

A license to complain? YES!!

OK, the teams that bothered me the most - in no particular order:

The ones that lost to :

Stanford

Michigan

VCU

N. Iowa

Bradley

Bucknell

Syracuse

I believe the Syracuse game bothered me the most because if we had just shot free throws POORLY instead of not at all, we would have won the game easily.

Players that bugged me? (still in no particular order)

Tharpe last year.

E.J.

The Morri - stupid antics brought down their "stock" in my eyes. I always liked them, but wish they had been a bit more mature.

Selby - enough said.

X-Henry - more of enough said.

The non NCAA game that bothered me the most - the home loss to Texas right after the passing of Thomas Robinson's mother. No way we lose that game under normal circumstances.

@JayhawkRock78 How many Danny Manning type players will never win a NC because they won't stick around until their Senior (or Sophomore, for that matter) years?

@drgnslayr I tried peeing on the potted plants, but that didn't work out so well.

Stupid mall security........

@MoonwalkMafia lol - that doesn't even make sense. That's like someone telling a Texan - "You're from Texas, what do you know about bullsh*t ?"

I don't give a sh*t about North Carolina right now.

Congrats to Charlie Hoag (posthumously) and Walt Wesley for their ensuing induction on October 5, 2014 to the Kansas Sports Hall of Fame.

Here's an excerpt from my local paper highlighting their careers:

One of the best athletes on KU’s 1952 basketball team, Hoag was a four-sport star who won an Olympic gold medal in basketball and was drafted professionally in football.

A two-time All-Big 7 football player for the Jayhawks, Hoag scored nine points in the 1952 NCAA hoops title game. Hoag was named, along with six of his Jayhawk teammates, to the 1952 U.S. Olympic basketball team which won the gold in Helsinki, Finland. Hoag was drafted to play halfback by the Cleveland Browns in 1953.

Wesley, who is a native of Fort Myers, Florida, was a two-time All-America selection at KU. Wesley led the Jayhawks in scoring in both his junior and senior seasons and averaged over 20 points per game both years. Wesley was named an All-Big 8 selection in 1965 and 1966 and was also selected as a Helms Foundation first-team All-American both seasons.

Wesley’s career scoring average at KU of 19.1 points per game ranks in the top ten of school history.

He was selected in the first round of the 1966 NBA Draft by the Cincinnati Royals and played 10 NBA seasons, registering over 5,000 points and over 3,000 rebounds.

@drgnslayr I don't know - Perry is no T-Rob, but I tell you what, when he's on the court, I'm pretty confident. His smarts outweighs his inadequacies by a lot. He can score (about) anywhere, he rebounds, passes - MAKES FREE THROWS.

For some reason, he's been the go to scapegoat and I'm not convinced it's deserved.

I likes me some Perry Ellis. And his slacks fit me nicely too.

I haven't read all the comments, but many of you know how much I LOVE the OAD rule. (where's the dang eye-rolling emoticon?)

To me, it's no different than telling a kid that it's ok to drop out of High School as a freshman/sophomore - whatever - to go work for......let's say the Railroad, because it's a great paying job. Wouldn't everyone agree that it would be a stupid move? Please say yes......

It's the same with college - to me. The pay scale is grossly exaggerated, but the principal is the same.

You're giving up an education (not to mention several years of the best times of your life) for a whole boatload of money.

As my buddy who used to be stationed in Hong Kong always tells me -

"Same, same - Hong Kong name"

@drgnslayr UK does not have elite football. I'm not sure KU even HAS football. Sorry for the negativity, but the last 5 or 6 years have kind of wiped me out.

@JayHawkFanToo Hypothetically - if Marshall were the coach of KU, would HE play Wichita State ?

@icthawkfan316 I realize he made the Final Four last year, plus had 35 wins ( and ONE loss) this year. But - and we all can argue this all day - the level of competition that WSU plays is NOT what KU plays. Not what Self played at Illinois either.

You may say what about the NCAA run last year? * Under the Radar *

This year - the first time they played a good team, they were packing to go home.

Greg Marshall may be the greatest coach since John Wooden (or whomever your "great" coach is) Then again, he may not be. I want to see him coach a team that plays STRONG competition most of the time before I'm ready to label him great.

@JayHawkFanToo With all due respect, Marshall's going to have to be successful somewhere besides Winthrop and Wichita State before I buy into the "flat out coach" statement.

@jaybate 1.0 - I think the fans should have the final say. How many years they stay, what position they play, how many minutes, etc. They could do it like the " Instant Save " thing on The Voice. ( Yes, I watch The Voice. Also American Idol, X-Factor, American's Got Talent and Last Comic Standing) Everybody vote during time outs who they want to see on the floor when play resumes.

@HighEliteMajor This year ended for me like most football seasons. " Thank goodness it's finally over ". ( 10 losses, really?? )

With the exception of 3 or 4 games, we looked lackluster and very Un-KU like all season long.

Having said that - heck yeah, I was extremely disappointed with the way we finished this year. I ain't on that planet.....

@JayHawkFanToo - It's almost like another year or two of college would have made him a better pro......

@HighEliteMajor I think it's a little spooky that you can look into the future.....

I know it's been documented that Self had to continually get on Andrew Wiggins to be more selfish, but looking at your post, I can actually see Self having that conversation with just about any gifted shooter/scorer. I think the young fellas might be getting mixed messages.

"Shoot more. Score more. But only after 5 passes and only when there's 6 seconds or less on the shot clock."

I've watched a fair amount of film on S.M. ( not S AND M ....) and I believe that his biggest asset is that he PLAYS the game.

I hope Self doesn't get him to think.

@HighEliteMajor "Best" = goofiest looking?

@Crimsonorblue22 Thank you!

@joeloveshawks I clicked on the link to check it out, but decided to back away (didn't realize it was kusports). I refuse to answer their stupid questions. I'll check it out somewhere else to see how difficult the schedule really is.

No fault of yours, by the way. Not everyone is as hard headed and stubborn as I am concerning that website.

@JRyman "Dementia and probably Alzheimer's are in my future"

I haven't posted for several days, it's been a busy time and honestly, I just can't get that amped up this far from the start of basketball season (or even football, for that matter).

But I read your "Dementia and Alzheimer's" comment early this morning and it's been gnawing at me ever since.

I know this is primarily a basketball forum, but sometimes we wander a little off topic. I'm going to wander a long ways off topic now and I apologize ahead of time for those I'm about to offend.

I've read all of your posts lately about your brain injuries and the suffering that you've been through and it grieves me to hear what you have to go through on a daily basis. It humbles me and makes me feel embarrassed when I complain about an occasional backache or headache and have to take two ibuprofen in a month's time.

I said that the Dementia/Alzheimer's comment was gnawing at me today - (here we go) - I would encourage you, no - I would plead with you not to think or speak that way. Proverbs 18:21 says that "Death and life are in the power of the tongue". I know you've been through a lot and sometimes it's easy to think that way. You may have even been told by medical professionals that that's what's in the cards for you. Don't believe them. It doesn't have to be that way and it may NOT be that way. Things could change for you in an instant.

I don't know why we go through the things that we do. We ALL have things that we endure, whether physical, mental, emotional or spiritual, but I do know this - God loves you and has a plan for your life. Don't get discouraged and don't be surprised if things change for you soon. I will be praying for you and I know that many others will as well.

Again, I'm sorry if anyone is offended by this. I understand. I spent many years scoffing at "weak" people who put their faith and hope in an invisible god. Then about 25 years ago I found out He wasn't invisible - that He's real and that He cares for us. (and He's probably a Jayhawk fan).

OK, I made the Jayhawk part up. Probably.

@JRyman If you got game - BE A BALL HOG! Your teammates, coaches and fans will let you know when it's time to dish it off.

@icthawkfan316 I hope Conner Frankamp doesn't become the basketball version of Jake Sharp. I watched almost all of Sharp's home games in High School and my jaw was on the ground at every game - he was unbelievable. (I know High School and College aren't the same)

I just get this sick feeling that Conner isn't going to get nearly enough pt as he should. I hope I'm wrong, I hope he works so hard that he FORCES Self to put him on the court a lot.

@icthawkfan316 I REALLY wanted this guy - don't know anything about him except for his name and that's enough for me.

Goodluck Okonoboh

Well, I tried to bring his picture in from ESPN, but I ain't smart enough. Anyway, he's #26 on ESPN's top 100 - signed with UNLV.

What a name though!

@wissoxfan83 Get off your soapbox.

I'M KIDDING! You're spot on - kids with no fathers is tearing our society up. It's a huge, huge issue. If men would, well, man up and be real fathers to their kids, all of us - especially the kids - would reap big benefits.

A few years ago, we went to some sort of awards ceremony at our son's High School - don't remember exactly what they were handing out, but it was an academic thing. This has stuck with me and probably always will. There were about 25 kids that got awards and every one of them - their parents were still married to each other. Now, I know that there are plenty of smart kids who are from single parent or divorced families, and I know that many who are divorced/seperated/single may not be that way of their own choosing, I'm just saying that it seems as though the one's whose parents were still married had less "distractions".

I certainly hope I don't offend anyone who is in this situation, that's not my intent at all.

But whether you're married or not, and raising kids, you are a blessing and your "job" of raising them is the most important job you'll ever have.

Wow - @wissoxfan83 - talk about being on a soapbox. Sorry.

The more I think about it, the more I think I'd like to keep it just the way it is - as @justanotherfan so eloquently stated -

KU and the 9 dwarfs

If the rest of them want any notoriety they'll have to earn it.

@justanotherfan - Thanks for the explanation. I can't really take it all in right now - I'm too busy thinking about

KU and the 9 dwarfs

lol - I truly love that. I wonder if we can petition the Big 12 to officially change the name of our conference !

Is this news? A buddy of mine called me 15 seconds ago and said that he just heard on a sportstalk radio show that Tharpe was requesting a transfer.

@justanotherfan Not to be argumentative, but I'm just curious - how would another Big 12 team winning a National Championship help KU? Thanks!

@Kip_McSmithers Not a slam - just an observation.

This guy looks like a cross between Gilligan and Steve Urkel.

1) None

2) Kansas St ( I could go on living if they won in football - would be touch and go if it were basketball.