wissox said:
No Fran tonight? Not really complaining, just curious!
Jay and Dan. Good pair. When Jay isn't working Duke games anyway.
BShark
33646 posts
Self is working it I see.
As announcing pairs go, this one is pretty livable.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BShark that's funny after everyone was griping
Well, he's important to winning games right now. That was part of my point that his floor is fairly high because he gets after it on D. We need Grimes to commit defensively.
BeddieKU23 said:
We will have to play our best game of the year to beat them. Its going to take at least 4 guys having their A game
I think Michigan State might be better than Tennessee, but missing Garrett hurts.
Maaaan, this game is going to go to 11pm CST most likely. RIP east coast hawks.
BeddieKU23 said:
Never seen a guy pick against us every game and lose. And then repeat himself again, again. Just funny
Didn't he do this last year too?
BeddieKU23 said:
Sethy would pick his grandma to beat us
Little blind sisters of the most poor sacred heart by 15 over KU - Seth
@bmensch1 Hope you are correct.
DEEEELAAAAAAAAAAAYS.
BeddieKU23 said:
Will be interesting to see how we play without him. Lots of minutes for others.
We might get to see extended minutes for Chuck or KJ...
Well then...
Gorilla72 said:
Danny Manning and Wake Forest fall to Houston Baptist in OT. His chair must be getting warm. Really want him to succeed!
I believe this game doused the chair in gasoline and lit a match.
BeddieKU23 said:
No Garrett tonight. Concussion like symptoms. Rut roh
Despite the nature of this thread, this really sucks!
Arizona lost three commits last year @Hawk8086 it's why they have been struggling a bit this year. But yeah, they are currently full steam ahead recruiting.
Woodrow said:
Garrett out tonight in concussion protocol
Shit.
@BeddieKU23 I think if his jumper develops he could end up a high pick. Also, very solid chance Doke is back. Self will make things work, KU will be top 25 next year.
Good defensive effort today. With hopefully an improve staff and eventually more talent coming in, maybe KU could make a bowl game in year 2 under Les.
BeddieKU23 said:
So far its looked like Dotson will be a OAD. It's super early but I cant imagine scouts are not impressed with his ability to defend, jet in the open court and run the team. Again this is just from what we have seen early but I can imagine he will only get better and more comfortable as the season goes. He is already one of the 5 most valuable players on this team and that wont be lost come spring
Eh, I still think there is a high chance he stays.
Arizona has a former assistant on trial in the spring.
But man, they are still out there dropping bags. Wild.
wissox said:
@approxinfinity The 2nd link I posted has Duke as 2 and us as 3! Sharpen your pitchforks! Tomorrow we storm the media castle!
Do we have a wheelbarrow and a holocaust cloak though?
jayballer73 said:
So did I miss it OR did Stanley not sign in the early period? - -IF he didn't commit early then I would think that should help us . I would think. Think that would mean were still in the game , cause if he was going to Sign or knew that he was going to commit to Oregon or UCLA then he would of done that now. - -so were still there. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
He did not, and yes it is good for KU.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
Homeward bound
Original or 90s? I think either is a good choice for kids. Err, I guess you mean the 90s one, I think the original was just "The Incredible Journey".
approxinfinity said:
Hey, I recently downloaded an old movies app, in addition to watching the Andy Griffith show and some Tom and Jerry with the boys. Do you guys have any recommendations for old movies or shows that would be good watches?
Hmm. No idea what's on there.
I always did enjoy Hogan's Heroes.
@Fightsongwriter He's not hurt, he's just...this unathletic. He graded out as the absolute worst athlete at the combine after his SO year at Memphis. If he had a lick of hops, he'd be in the NBA right now.
The MSU win continues to look great...
Huge win for Texas and the league.
That would be pretty absurd but obviously they would have brought it upon themselves. That sure adds a lot of pressure.
Bosthawk said:
Is Dotson considered a 4-year guy?
No. There is a chance he leaves after this year but likely a 2-3 year player.
@Bosthawk So role players are of course okay, pretty much essential even. Not everyone gets to be the star. Teams like 08 KU or 09 UNC are fairly abnormal where you have a bunch of high level players. The problem actually is the lack of being an offensive threat. The other part of the problem is when Self takes a subpar player like Jamari and plays him too much. Let's take JR year Jamari for instance. 10 minutes a game is probably fine, but 20? No way his stats were that of a play half the game player. Landen was a serviceable big, a 15 minutes a game kind of guy. He should have started 1 game for KU though, SR night, instead he started 63. The difference with, say, a player such as Russ Rob is clear. Role players like Russ Rob are what you want. Good and willing defender, does all the little things you mentioned (box out, make smart passes, run screens, rebound, play within the team etc) but doesn't kill you on offense. The trouble comes when Self likes a player for the little reasons, but is an absolute albatross offensively. Self can't help but play them, it's his kryptonite. However like @HighEliteMajor mentioned, it's why KU is so good in the regular season, it will assure you win games against lesser competition and athletes. Making the right plays is a sure way to steal games. The bigger issue is that what if you can teach your higher ceiling players to play like that. Self has his approach that's for sure, it resonated with Oubre, but flamed out with Diallo, Cliff etc... It eventually worked with the guys Brady played ahead of kinda, just not that year. It's a slow burn with Self, and why typically his best teams are loaded with guys experienced playing for Bill specifically. Garrett not starting IS big, let's hope it continues.
GREAT point about NBA talent and fit in specific college systems. Some players have definitely felt like a bit of a waste under Self. Of course in the past Self was too rigid at times but like HEM said he has softened up a bit. This is also a big part of why I am not worried about the McBride and Braun commitments. They should be good college players. Both can shoot it and are constantly described with words/terms such as winner, competitor, tough, gets after it etc... So if the staff thinks they are a good fit, and you develop them over 4-5 years I am all for that. In fact if all three stay at KU, I almost have no doubt that RS JR Agbaji, + 3rd Year Braun/McBride will be very salty back court pieces.
@wrwlumpy Entire thread appreciated as always. Thanks.
@HighEliteMajor Nice discourse, thanks.
@Bosthawk I feel like part of Garrett's off-ball movement was because Marquette basically wasn't guarding him.
I hope the message got through to Grimes, there is no way he should be THAT bad and disengaged.
@AsadZ Dotson is a blur on TV too.
Kcmatt7 said:
I have to 100% agree that Garrett should barely be touching the floor he is so bad offensively. The period where him and Mitch were on the court at the same time, I'm not sure we scored.
But he did play decent D in the 2nd half. Still, putrid offensively. 11 points on 13 shots, and missing 3 FTs. However he did have the 2nd best defensive rating after Dotson. And he actually had a better offensive rating than Grimes...
The truth is, playing Garrett isn't the issue. It's Grimes not forcing Self to play him. 3 shots in 26 minutes means he isn't looking to score. 0 assists means he wasn't doing anything that would get someone else open. Grimes just plain sucked last night. Maybe Garrett was the better option last night... Even as ugly as it looked.
He was better than Grimes in all facets last night. Grimes was terrible.
Having Garrett and Lightfoot out there at the same time is atrocious and as good as Dotson as been it gets worse if he is in that mix too. You can't afford three non-shooters on the court at the same time.
dylans said:
Beyond the starters I don’t see much guard talent. I thought this team would be much deeper.
Here’s hoping Charlie gets up to speed and Garrett stops shooting 3s! Usable depth would be nice! Charlie as a spark plug off the bench with a deadly shot and Garrett off the bench to shut down the other teams best wing and drive to create fouls is what I’m hoping for.
Agree. Dotson and Vick are good. Grimes is streaky. Outside of that...Garrett is...consistently mediocre? Charlie and KJ are non-factors...
It might have been a mistake to RS Ochai. If KJ is never going to play and Garrett is this blah.
KUSTEVE said:
@BShark I think you're taking Grimes not playing harder than Grimes did.
Grimes played 26 minutes which is fine. He didn't do much. I'm more worried about Garrett's high minutes when KJ never plays. Moore gets too many minutes too, he played 14 last night and was practically invisible on the court.
I wish Dave could play more, but this year I don't know where the minutes would come from. He will be very good for KU down the line.
kjayhawks said:
@BShark Self can most definitely be wrong, in fact he is often if you think about it. I honestly disagree that MG played to much tho. Grimes did absolutely nothing tonight, he was burned repeatedly and was flatout lazy for much of the game. That was the story on him coming in, super streaky shot and lack of effort. He played 26 minutes to 28 by MG. Charlie Moore and K.J. are pretty much here just because at this point, I see neither guy ever making an impact here (would’ve rather Sam stayed and Moore left). Moore recorded a steal that was knocked loose by someone else and a rebound in 14 minutes. My question is, who else pays then? I think MG shot the ball a little much but most of his shots were late in the first half with Doke out, Dedric ineffective and not much really coming from anyone else. I was most disappointed in his 2/5 from the line. I thought he played good defense and drove the ball fairly well tonight, just needed to finish a few more. It’s funny how Dedric gets about 25 shots blocked right back in face in a 3 game stretch and it nothing to bat an eye at but MG has struggled shooting it and it is a huge deal. MG needs to improve offensively no question but so do several other players on this team and most of those players can’t guard as well. At this point I’d be shocked to see Grimes go pro after this season. I honestly think Dotson is the better player of the 2.
Disagree about Sam. He was really bad.
As for who else plays, I am interested in seeing more from KJ. Garrett can't shoot. Marquette was letting him take open looks because that's a good strategy. He drives the ball okay, but without a real purpose or knowledge of what to do after the drive. Still, at least he is willing to do it. Him and Dotson are the only willing drivers on this team. If he were making his lay-ups, he'd be a much better overall player. His dribble is kind of suspect as well.
Dedric has a proven body of work. He settled down a bit last night which helped. He just needs to get a feel for playing with this team and get back to playing real games again. He's pretty crafty.
Based on what we are seeing, Grimes shouldn't be an NBA pick. He can't get by guys in college so he's going to do it in the NBA? Yeah right. that said he is dead set on being OAD.
Dedric was far and away KU's best player last night. I'd say he definitely "took over". It will probably never look pretty but he was great last night. Efficient with very high usage.
@Bosthawk I get WHY Garrett plays. I think Self is wrong for doing so. Other, better players with more potential can learn. Self has shown a penchant for playing low ceiling, low risk guys in the past and he is doing it again. This is BRADY MORNINGSTAR all over again. It's Jamari. It's Lucas. Etc...
I actually like the fact that he drives. He should do that every time instead of taking a three.
@dylans His on ball defense is pretty good. Off-ball is another story, though it was an issue for KU all year until the 2nd half tonight basically.
There is another impact of this too - recruiting. I brought this up in another thread about another player but it's not a good look that Grimes barely gets any shots tonight (this is on Grimes somewhat) and that he gets benched for his defense (classic Billy, and known info but still it hurts in recruiting). Speaking of that other player, Dave looked pretty okay in his whopping two minutes tonight.
wissox said:
We have a hall of fame coach who doesn't know what he's doing I guess.
Are you for real with this?
@HighEliteMajor I need you here.
Self called Garrett the best player tonight. Sometimes Self can be wrong. It's okay to think this or discuss the possibility. No reason to stifle discussion.
My hope is that he is playing Garrett to prove a point to Grimes or someone else. Grimes got 26 minutes tonight after all, albeit highly invisible minutes. But we've seen this rodeo before. Remember when Jamari played 20 minutes a game and KU got dumpstered in the tournament by Wichita State? Playing Garrett huge minutes is pretty short sighted. It's not the kind of move that helps the team improve. However this was also an interesting game because of the match-up, and Self did go 4 guards pretty often.
I'll end this with a quote from Tully at halftime.
"If Marcus Garrett takes that many shots in the second half they gotta remove Bill Self from the Hall of Fame."
Tonight he was closer to what I think will be normal for him.
StLJhawk said:
Doke on the bench all late first half, got our butts kicked. Doke playing hard all early second half, out scored them 22-0. Coincidence?
Doke is very important.
@Kcmatt7 Very excited about Dotson. Especially if we get 3 years.
jayballer73 said:
Hmm , Dedric plays against Quality opp. -- Look how he played against Michigan ST = =Big time - - tonight 26 points and 12 rebounds. - -Is this how i's going to be ? - -but last to starting to show Think they say he had 19 and then 26 tonight - -hope he can continue to improve as the season goes on ,
This game against Tennessee is gonna be a war. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
3 assists 2 blocks and just 1 turnover as well. Great game from Dedric.
@Kcmatt7 I'd vote Dedric, but Dotson was very good.
13 shots tonight!!! That's about 10 too many.
Dotson was extremely good tonight. He shut down Markus Howard completely in the 2nd half.
@Kcmatt7 The 2nd half was a very encouraging sign. I hope they keep it up!
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
Kcmatt7 said:
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
Kcmatt7 said:
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
Kcmatt7 said:
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
StLJhawk said:
Fair enough. I Just have trouble with the “entitlement” vibe here sometimes. We can’t win em all.
Cool. I have a problem with our perimeter defense.
17 points so far in the 2nd half... I still think this team ends up being dominate defensively. My 1st half meltdown has been rescinded.
291st ranked team in 3-point defense. Got torched in the 1st half knowing that Marquette was going to shoot 3's. Played better in the 2nd half. Good. Still a lot of work to do if they want to be a dominant defensive team.
Based on what? Percentage? I can find favorable stats. 3rd ranked Kenpom defense before the game. And I'll go ahead and say it will still be ranked top 5 after holding a good offensive Marquette team to under 70 points.
Yes, based on 3-point percentage. As I've said for the 100th time now. And my complaint was about Kansas' perimeter defense and opponent 3-point percentage. Thank you for finding KenPom stats for me, though.
Thanks for finding 3pt % for me.
I complained about opponents shooting 3's against Kansas. I found opponents 3-point percentage against Kansas.
You found random KenPom stats. Good job I guess?
Bwag said:
StLJhawk said:
Good guys win yet again and are the number 1 team in the country yet again. Good to be a Jayhawk fan
I think Gonzaga will jump us. Cause...Duke.
Well, I do think Gonzaga is the better team right now. They are experienced and used to playing together though. They got this Duke win without one of their best 2 players too!
Bwag said:
Bwag said:
I think we tightened defense on perimeter. That shut them down.
Good win.
Marquette had 10 3 attempts in second half vs 21 in first.
That’s what I was complaining about. Let’s continue that approach and be ready for balance of the year.
Yep! We have the horses inside to hedge and funnel guys into the paint. Run guys off the line. 3>2 especially when the 3s are open and with the twos there is a behemoth patrolling the paint.
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
Kcmatt7 said:
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
Kcmatt7 said:
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
StLJhawk said:
Fair enough. I Just have trouble with the “entitlement” vibe here sometimes. We can’t win em all.
Cool. I have a problem with our perimeter defense.
17 points so far in the 2nd half... I still think this team ends up being dominate defensively. My 1st half meltdown has been rescinded.
291st ranked team in 3-point defense. Got torched in the 1st half knowing that Marquette was going to shoot 3's. Played better in the 2nd half. Good. Still a lot of work to do if they want to be a dominant defensive team.
Based on what? Percentage? I can find favorable stats. 3rd ranked Kenpom defense before the game. And I'll go ahead and say it will still be ranked top 5 after holding a good offensive Marquette team to under 70 points.
Yes, based on 3-point percentage. As I've said for the 100th time now. And my complaint was about Kansas' perimeter defense and opponent 3-point percentage. Thank you for finding KenPom stats for me, though.
It's very obvious that the 3 point defense for KU needs work. The 2nd half looked a lot better obviously.
Ruh roh
We saw it with Jamari and we are seeing it again with Garrett. There have been some others as well but these are the two most severe.
This crap has to end. Play your best players.