Hopefully Dedric wins the POTY award that matters. I get why they won't vote for a guy that hasn't played a single league game though.
BShark
33646 posts
Woodrow said:
Yes, there is going to be a season this year and I think KU might be pretty good.
The Big 12 announced its preseason awards today.
POY: Dean Wade
Newcomer : Dedric Lawson
FR of the year " Quentin Grimes
Preseason All-Big 12 Team
Name, School Pos. Ht. Wt. Cl. Hometown/Previous School(s)
Lindell Wigginton, Iowa State G 6-2 188 So. Dartmouth, Novia Scotia/Oak Hill Academy
Dedric Lawson, Kansas F 6-9 235 Jr. Memphis, Tenn./Hamilton/Memphis
Barry Brown, Jr., K-State G 6-3 195 Sr. St. Petersburg, Fla./Gibbs
Dean Wade, K-State* F 6-10 228 Sr. St. John, Kan./St. John
Sagaba Konate, West Virginia F 6-8 250 Jr. Bamako, Mali/Kennedy Catholic
Honorable Mention (listed alphabetically by school)
Cameron Lard (Iowa State)
Udoka Azubuike (Kansas)
Quentin Grimes (Kansas)
Alex Robinson (TCU)
Kerwin Roach II (Texas)
Jericho Sims (Texas)
Jarrett Culver (Texas Tech)
:thumbsup:
@HighEliteMajor Well before this trial, I've said that KU has creatively paid players. When it's a topic of course, and it frequently wasn't. But I have brought up Sherron, Julian etc... before the trial. I was often met with scorn but the reactions here were mostly pretty tame from what I remember, compared to other KU boards.
@Woodrow Makes sense with MPJ and Trae. Good info, thanks.
mayjay said:
@BShark Is there a trickle down to the rest of the team? I can't believe there wouldn't be resentment and jealousy by lower-echelon players, even walk ons. You would expect some of the kids who get recruited over to anonymously blow the whistle to get someone booted and get back their PT.
Well it's not just the elite players getting paid.
The walk-ons are a different animal though. One could even say, they have the opposite role of the scholarship players.
kjayhawks said:
@BShark That happens everywhere aswell IMO. Michael Beasleys mom went from rags to riches when he at KSU. She lived in a multi million dollars condo out by the country club, his former agent leaked a ton of info about this and the NCAA didn't even care to look at it. Also Shaq, Charles Barkley and Jay Williams all have admitted to being paid in college for nothing to happen. Several football players have as well. The SMU death penalty is still laughable because they knew several other Texas schools were doing the same thing.
Absolutely. I didn't mean to imply that it only goes on at KU. It is wide-spread.
I wouldn't say I am gleeful, but it was the worst kept secret.
In one of the threads on the Phog about it so far 65 schools have been remembered as having been caught to some degree or had a player caught over the last 15 years. So when people say everyone does it, that is pretty much the case. I mean, those are just the schools that had something caught.
Woodrow said:
How many parents of players have moved to Lawrence, and found a nice apartment / house to live in. You think they are paying market value for those...??
And have nice new cars. Plus a cushy job that is completely legal and not directly attached to KU in most cases (Ronnie Chalmers an obvious exception here).
Woodrow said:
Exactly @Kcmatt7 . You have to be extremely ignorant and naive to believe none of this was going on. It has been going on FOREVER!! You think Julian Wright just goes to KU without ever visiting. You think Darrell Arthur really just had a dream and picked KU. I mean get a clue.
Sherron, the Morris twins, Cole...
I would actually struggle to think of a player at KU under Self that wasn't compensated. Which, again, I am fine with.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@Woodrow I think you are missing my point, I love KU, that's why I'm disappointed. I'd never stop watching or going to games, I watch every KU fb game. I don't care that "everybody" does it.
Serious question, would you rather KU struggle to even be .500?
Woodrow said:
@Crimsonorblue22 I am not missing your point. You should be disappointed in the NCAA and college athletics if you do not like what is going on. This is a business and this is how business is conducted due to the current structure of college athletics.
So you can sit here and say you are disappointed all you want, but you are still going to support the team, love Bill, etc... so how disappointed are you really??
Well said. I covered this earlier but the problem is systemic because players obviously have value and the fake system trotted out there isn't realistic. The market adjusted.
@BigBad Exactly. This kind of stuff goes on at Washburn for crying out loud.
But it is how CBB operates, I've been saying it well before the trial. @jaybate-1-0 has long been saying it, though I don't know his thoughts on KU's involvement of course.
@Hawk8086 Given that they already have put out other texts and phone calls, KT/Self aren't the only ones.
I didn't say it was, I'm just saying threads shouldn't be locked because of that.
STEVE is just giving you shit.
Differing view points on the situation are fine, and this thread doesn't need to be locked.
@justanotherfan The shooting has been really poor so far. Dunno if you've been watching.
Also, we will see very soon, but I don't think anyone gets convicted in the current trial. I think the defense did a reasonable job creating a "shadow of doubt". Now, there will be more cases to come with those other assistants. Maybe the NCAA sham will finally be over but it's way too early to say.
@HighEliteMajor Fair enough. I was always pretty sure about some things that happened at KU under Self. So I assumed he wasn't really clean by NCAA standards. But I also don't think it's a big deal because these kids obviously have more value than a scholarship. I know I've been beating that drum for awhile, but that's all but impossible to deny now, right?
This is systemic because the system is broken. Clean because a kid wants to go there recruitments are the exception. This happens across all levels of college athletics, schools and recruits of any and all rankings. Even kids that are in-state or have connections to the program will often take because they know it's on the table.
I particularly disagree that KU is in a different place now. Maybe for a short time publicly, but KU has always been deep in the crootin' waters. You don't field a good team if you aren't.
Like I said previously, KU players are never wanting for anything. Even the kids from poor families have new cars. I don't think that's a problem though. The sell tickets and apparel for the university. College athletics are major sport, hardly truly amateur.
I agree with some of what you are saying and it needs to be said, but I'm surprised with your candy coated view of college athletics. I'm not stunned by this, but then I was always fairly confident about things that happened at KU, so I didn
Self isn't going anywhere unless he gets convicted of something.
Also in that thread, Will Wade incriminating himself. Very interesting that these weren't allowed in court.
FarmerJayhawk said:
It’s about Zion so who cares? Not like we pid him not to come.
I mean it's Townsend on tape offering to pay for Zion. This one is not spinnable, imo. KT might have to fall on the sword. I hope not, obviously.
What is there isn't anything KU hasn't done before, it's just KT saying he will get it done is a bit dicey, imo.
Shit
Yeah, a lot of his game in HS was driving it and pulling up for mid-range jumpers when needed. He was really good at that. He isn't a catch and shoot 3 pt guy.
Adam Zagoria
Verified account @AdamZagoria
23s24 seconds ago
Update from the trial: defendants Gatto, Dawkins and Code all elected not to testify
Jury will hear closing arguments Wednesday- Thursday and could reach a verdict as early as Thursday. Otherwise it will go into next week.
I'll have to check that out when I'm not on my phone.
Does anyone here have a favorite team? I'm kinda a Celtics fan because of Paul but mostly I just like watching match-ups between two good teams and or great players.
Excited
Some stuff from Scott Chasen at 24/7
"Our freshman class, I think, is probably the highest basketball IQ for an entire class that we have had for a while. I do think that as far as interaction with others and communication, I do think it's a pretty good class. I really do," Self said. "If you guys remember, when Frank [Mason] first got here, we couldn't get him to talk. Of course, by the time he left here, we barely got him to talk. But Devonte' [Graham] was one of those guys who just had it from the first day he walked on campus from the communications standpoint. I do think Ochai and David are in that same boat."
So now comes the big question: Who will be left on the outside looking in?
Popular names to throw out before the season as potentially receiving a redshirt were Lightfoot, who may be the fifth big in the frontcourt, or Agbaji, a talented freshman who may be better served holding off a year and making things up on the back end. (Theoretically, McCormack could also be in that conversation as a potential fifth big, but that would seem extremely unlikely, especially given his status as a McDonald's All American.)
Of course, Sam Cunliffe was once in that conversation as well, but he has since transferred to Evansville, where he's since added at least one set of responsibilities to his work on the court.
Regardless, here's what Self had to say about the rotation when asked about it back at media day:
"I hadn't thought about a rotation yet. We don't even know how you play 12," Self said. "Do you try and play 10 and redshirt a couple, play 11 and redshirt one, play 12 and redshirt none? I do think our players that are young are good enough that if they're playing five or seven minutes a game they will be better at age 23 than 18. We haven't got that far yet. We could play long or two little guards at the same time. I think it's too early to tell."
kjayhawks said:
@BShark I personally believe everyone is getting something, I think the NCAA just doesn't care if you don't leave a paper trail. Several former top recruits on the matter have said everyones getting paid but we didn't when asked about it. I think its been going on since the 50s when UK got busted. ESPN radio had a former D1 assistant on a few years back that asked not to be identified and he claimed there is no such thing as a free recruit in today's game, claimed even the local guys that were fans of the school wanted something because they knew they could get it.
Of course. Don't ask, don't tell.
I'm sure KU players paid for their brand new car totally on their own though. A lot of stuff that happens is totally legal like the parents of players being employed (and overpaid) by alumni but not directly attached to the university.
Agree, college athletics have been dirty the entire time. All the way back to the 40s or w/e. We know Wooden was dirty and like you said UK as well.
@approxinfinity Ha. ESPN definitely has an agenda.
That's another part I like about The Athletic. For the most part, writers are free to write what they want to write about.
The athletic is worth it, the writing is so good.
TL;DR: Some coaches recruit purely based off the rankings and not their own eyes. Which we knew, but lots of quotes from current coaches (thinking the paywall helps here) and just all around a good read imo. Bowen was the key player used for this, because Pitino maybe saw him play once and thought he wasn't even all that good.
Thought about posting this in the FBI thread, but didn't want to get buried plus it's mostly about another point and not the dirtiness of college ball.
SkinnyKansasDude said:
To me it’s just like even if Self was aware of the shoe company’s payments what exactly can he do about it? If it’s the best player he can get he has pressure every year to build a championship caliber team and will recruit that player regardless. I think Bill Self and the program are 100% in the clear but as for Silvio I’m not convinced. Probably for no fault of his own but it’s a dirty game these shoe company’s are playing.
This is a great point. If KU were to field a team of players that didn't take money, they'd be the worst team in the B12.
mayjay said:
Not a word, or even a hint, in those texts about money.
Self will be fine at the end of this unless something new and crazy comes out. Which I do not expect to happen.
BeddieKU23 said:
approxinfinity said:
I havent kept up to date but I just read this on ESPN. Is everything there stuff we already knew?
The texts involving self are new.
But still just confirming previous claims that Gassnola chatted with Self/KT frequently.
approxinfinity said:
I havent kept up to date but I just read this on ESPN. Is everything there stuff we already knew?
Yeah everything today was known, it's basically just being confirmed with evidence.
The Gary Parrish article is pretty good tbh.
This is some info from Ryan Noel for those that don't read the Phog.
"From the bits I've heard. like I said, I think it'll be mostly Devon and Garrett handling the "lead guard" duties rather than Grimes or Moore.
And being a PG in high school mainly means you have the ballhandling ability to run things. He was widely billed as a PG by everyone that scouted him, and Self watched him run PG a bunch before his commitment.
Is he a traditional PG like Dotson is? No, but he's most comfortable with the ball in his hands rather than playing off the ball. I think a lot of people on this board are in for a rude awakening when Garrett plays a lot at PG and Charlie Moore struggles to get minutes."
@BeddieKU23 Well I mean, are you surprised? I'm not.
Per Zags
TJ Gassnola is done testifying and the judge told the jury they should be ready to deliberate this week
Pretty easy to infer shit here. Like, it's obvious now, but legally it seems unlikely anything will happen as of now.
Kcmatt7 said:
Yea this was probably the biggest blow I've heard so far.
Which is still basically nothing, so that's pretty great.
That's pretty not great for optics but shouldn't hang Self.
Kcmatt7 said:
Add in that the Pats had extra days rest and prep for this game...
After week 4 I said I would be happy with a split the next two weeks. Just sucks to lose though.
Belicheck showing he is still a masterful defensive coach.
Not looking good.
Villanova for anyone wondering. JRE's recruitment is feeling more and more like one where he and his family don't put anything out there so people just throw shit at the wall.