He was automatically gone before he stepped foot in College. These kids are funny
BeddieKU23
31745 posts
Ray Spalding hiring an agent from Louisville.
Nevada's trio, twins Cody & Caleb Martin & Jordan Caroline testing without agents
BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 I want Vernon Carey lololol. Hopefully Self makes a strong impression at team USA U18.
Carey's a big name and he's good, really good but give me JRE, Hurt & Achiuwa and we can trot out a better lineup made for the modern game right? We have Dave and Silvio who figure to be around as well. Hurt has so much Keith Van Horn/Sam Dekker in him that he's tailor made for today's game. JRE is really looking like Ellis 2.0 and Achiuwa is a monster we have never had.
drgnslayr said:
This team deserves all the credit in the world. Just erase that last game because Nova was on the "run of runs."
Let's not forget some of the memorable games.... smashing teams like Mizzou, KSU, WVU, OU, Shaka, Coach K, Calipari...
Hard to erase the game when Nova's gone on a run of runs 2 of the last 3 years and ran through KU to get there.. But I agree a great season full of memories. Just getting to the F4 was epic
Green, Harvey, Wilson, Achiuwa..
Jalen Wilson starting to get attention from Roy.. Say's he's 6'8 now and could be 6'9 before going to College. Wow has that kid grown. Hope he's a big target for KU especially given his Adidas affiliation
BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 Usually the problems come when KU misses on top targets. Though Diallo was heavily recruited all year and then Self wouldn't even play him. A total waste.
I would be stunned if DiVincenzo left early. Villanova will be good next year again. Though assuming Bridges and Brunson leave I think Spellman's decision plays a huge part of if they are a title contender or something like a 4-5 seed.
Very good point. I'll add to that because its important. Imagine if Self and Co were still looking for a post player in this class, aimlessly chasing the Jordan Brown, Moses Brown etc types.
Instead we identified a target early that had talent and room to grow (McCormack). That to me marked a shift because not even a year before that we put so many eggs into Ayton then Preston and got nothin'. Not only that I think we've already identified some traits that make Dave a good fit at KU. Dotson & Grimes were home-runs at guards. Silvio coming in early and producing was even more evidence of shifting to players that fit KU instead of getting talent that you hope fits for a year.
If your DiVincenzo you have to test right? Your iron can't get any hotter then it is. Spellmen is a fit in the modern NBA so I imagine he's got to be thinking about testing. Both are old for their class as well. If they leave wow that's a big tumble for them but if they return they get another year where they need 1-2 guys to step up to stay right at the top
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
Shine and Sima leaving Okie St.
Oklahoma St returning 3 players who even played. lol. 5 open scholarships
I thought they were going to be interesting next year but now......
Dumpster fire now. Except when they find 4 grad transfers that play like Kobe against KU.
We know what we are getting from Garrett the next 3 years defensively. He can only get better right?
Anyone notice the staff trying to work him into a secondary ball handler like the end of half play against Seton Hall with Graham in foul trouble. It's good to have options. No ego on the kid, unselfish and wants to win.
I trust the staff will work with him diligently to improve his shot the next 3 years. Really we need to see the improvement next season or his value can be argued along the lines with Brady, Reed, Lucas etc. Even if they can get him to 33% from 3 and 60-65% from the line we are talking a good jump next season. He is a proven scorer around the basket and I can imagine Hudy will continue to improve him so he can play a bigger role. Now that he's gotten a chance to learn from the veterans I can see him taking on more of a vocal and leadership role.
Josh Jackson on a heck of a run since the Suns went full on tanking. 10 straight games of 15+ points. Since January 1st he's had 10+ games of 20 or more. Needs to put some serious work into his shooting but at least he's proving he can play at this level
Barry Brown from K-St declares without Agent.
Dewan Huell from Miami declares without Agent.
Clemons's duo of Reed & Mitchell declare without Agents.
Kevin Knox and Alexander of Kentucky expected to declare with Agents any day.
BShark said:
Shine and Sima leaving Okie St.
Oklahoma St returning 3 players who even played. lol. 5 open scholarships
Brunson & Bridges are gone. Both are graduating this spring.
Spellman & DiVincenzo likely will test the waters after their tourney run. Nova really needs them both to return badly.
Booth & Paschall have another year. Recruiting class is their best on paper- 3 Top 50 recruits including Burger Boy Quinerly. Their freshman class from this year all played besides Samuels (A Top 50 recruit himself) who was hurt most of the season.
I had mentioned that last year they lost in the 2nd round without Booth & Spellmen. Return everyone and those two play and they win a title. Definitely a perfect storm
Diallo & Preston are examples of what Villanova avoids when building a roster. They have stability and it works for them and it could work for KU as well. They don't take gambles on kids that represent the less then 1% of athletes that have issues getting qualified and staying qualified. KU gambles and we've had some epic collapses doing so.
Garrett & the 2018 class looks promising for getting high character kids that can impact the program for years to come. I hope we continue to stick to this path .
CRH107 said:
Precisely why Coach Self will never 'bet the farm' on over-reliance of the 3, ever. He plays percentage basketball. Villanova is very, very comfortably ahead with a sub-par shooting 3 night.
Winning a title isn't enough to bet the farm?
Yes, lots of options for him to play pro.
Transferring out to sit a year to play 1 wouldn't seem likely
cragarhawk said:
I wouldn't have wanted to spend that kind of cabbage to watch that live.
Not sober at least
Thanks! I think the general consensus out there is that the G-League isn't paying well enough but if that's where they are headed towards then we will see a dramatic shift in the top HS kids in the future as well. Bazley is yet another example of this from this years class.
I'm surprised its taken the league this long to go in this direction.
BShark said:
Jaren Jackson JR declaring w/ agent. What a wasted one year at MSU.
Top 3 pick potentially, yeah that was just a matter of time. I'm a little on the fence with him. Lots of talent, not sure he's really ready for this.
Nova has done a great job of identifying talent that fits their needs. I remember seeing an article run after their title win that talked about the in-depth things they look for. The type of character they look for in kids, they vet these guys very well and don't take chances on guys that don't fit the criteria.
Compared to KU that's not always the case here, for every Frank Mason or Devonte Graham we get Billy Preston and Cheick Diallo in the program who came and left without leaving a single positive impact on the team.
I think we've talked about this here and there that KU should get back to an established criteria for kids they want. I think Garrett, Grimes, Dotson, De Sousa, McCormack and Ogbaji have all been a step in the right direction with that. We've even heard rumblings from those around the program that Self and his Staff have changed it up. If there is a character flaw in any of these kids we've yet to see it. No loose ends, no Pre-Madonna's that won't come in and work. The culture is different at KU then at Villanova so I'm not trying to say KU needs to be like Nova but there's certainly positive things KU can take from their model that they can apply.
Nova also has gotten pretty lucky.
Booth missed a year with injury and Bridges red-shirted behind other wings already in the rotation. Bridges goes from Top 80ish kid to potential lottery selection. That's part player and coaching success. Booth I believe has another year if he wants it which is crazy.
DiVincenzo was another player stuck behind others so he took a shirt and being a +100 recruit you just never know what they will become.
Spellman shirted due to academics so they have 4 guys who took a shirt that they got lucky with this season. If they had Booth & Spellman last season, doubt they lose in the 2nd round.
Brunson was a recruit everyone wanted, the Burger Boy with the old man game taught by a former NBA player. Those kids are not grown on trees unfortunately.
For all their success developing guys Delaney & Painter have done nothing.
Then theirs Paschall who KU wanted when he transferred. Had the game of his life against us (of course).
Their 2017 class looks like another gem. Samuels who turned down Duke was hurt most of the year. They get solid rotation minutes from Roundtree & Gillespie. Their 2018 class could be their best yet.. Success for sure
Was that the one Garrett three that hit side backboard instead of rim? Man he's got some work to do. Sounds like they will be changing his shot this summer
Usually when we are saying a player should come back to work on this and that they leave.. Sometimes we get lucky but most of the time they leave.
In this case Doke isn't on NBA radars but still has a decision to make. Will be looking forward to seeing what Self has to say about him when the team banquet and such comes up
BShark said:
:fire: :fire: :fire:
Matt has certainly thought we had a good chance for a while. Might as well put his money on it
When did the contracts for the G League get that high? I thought most were around 25k? Is that taking into account 2 way contracts?
benshawks08 said:
@BeddieKU23 yeah. That was my initial reaction too. I believe the commentator pointed out you can “get that shot anytime” but the problem is we couldn’t. Whether it was our offense or their defense, the ball never made it inside out. I think I counted 3-4 of those hero ball thees. Take those away and out inabilities to create open looks from three is even more problematic.
In the first 7-8 minutes of the game we had 8 shots total and a bunch of turnovers ( I want to say 4/5 by that point). I believe Nova had already made 6 three's and we hadn't even attempted one. Once it hit 22-4 panic really set in. We made that run for a few possessions going to zone but as soon as they made an open 3 panic just set right back in and we left the zone.
The team was neutralized and it didn't seem like anything KU did to adjust was working or even looked like there was an attempt to adjust. It just felt like once the score was getting out of hand the players were unable to mentally shake the deficit and play 0-0 ball which led to forced shots. Honestly I don't know many that could just black that out after being hit with haymaker after haymaker. There was a point in the 2nd half Graham made a 3, Nova answers with one, Graham hits another, I believe Nova hit another shot. Graham shoots another shot (without passing that clanks off the back rim). That kind of basketball probably doesn't happen if KU is in a manageable situation to comeback from which never felt like the case.
benshawks08 said:
Just curious what people’s opinions are on the several quick threes Newman and Devonte took. On one hand you see a guy dribble down the court and pull a moderately guarded three without any passes and think bad shot. I think I even heard self get on one of them after such a shot. But it’s not like moving the ball and running offense got any better looks. I don’t know if they are actually bad shots or not in the context of that game. Any thoughts?
I thought they were bad shots. I believe Kenny Smith pointed out those two shots in particular on the broadcast as saying nobody had even stepped foot in the paint when they shot them. The Newman one was worse as the defender got his hand right there as went up with it. Graham has made that shot plenty over his career but I always thought they were low percentage shots. Hero Ball at its worst
Nick Ward from Michigan St declares without an agent
Drew Eubanks from Oregon St declares with agent. LOL at that one
True. I'm just hoping he gets a bit bigger to compensate a bit and with him being 2 years out there's a good chance he isn't done. I'll take his shooting ability any-day and twice on Sunday.
Harvey has looked more fluid this year from video but its hard to tell. Anything to shed on that?
dylans said:
Any 4 year program players that’ll win KU a championship on the line? McCormack and Agbaji possibly?
I would expect both are here four years atm
BShark said:
Should be a 2G/CG. Doubt he grows enough to be a wing.
Perfectly okay with that, would just like to see him more in the 6'4ish area as he doesn't look like a standout athletic type at the moment
BShark said:
If Newman comes back I will temp ban myself.
I'll join!
Looks like a very good shooter. Hope he continues to grow a little and settle into a position
Agree on all.
Great post by the way.
I can definitely see Doke looking better with a return to the Hi/Low and having another big alongside him.
It will be interesting to see whether Doke views himself returning as beneficial with Lawson coming in to take a big role. Doke might not get the touches & usage he was enjoying this season with the thin roster. I don't know how much that plays into his decision really. McCormack could have been insurance for him leaving after this year all along. Who knows..
Evans of Cincinnati w/out Agent. I would however expect he stays in the draft
Bryce is looking good this far out.. Good thing we have some advantages with this one already
jayballer73 said:
@BeddieKU23 We all saw was given a perfect example of what would happen to Doke if he tried to opt for the NBA right now. - -he would be eaten alive just as he was tonight. - - he is going to be in trouble as he is not the typical 5 in the NBA today and he can't defend the typical 5 of today in the NBA
I generally agree that the game vs Nova was not a good look for Doke. I thought his effort was the most troubling part, I thought he gave up on plays. But we have to remember Doke was what 80-85% maybe? He was just not 100% for the entire tournament and put in a ton of work just to play for us. I'm glad he was able to get back out there and sacrifice his body for the team.
Stretch 5's are a mismatch for everyone which is why a player like Kristaps Porzingis is such a tough cover in the NBA for example. But there isn't 30 teams with a Porzingis so its not fair to say Doke is a mismatch defensively for the NBA but there are a few teams/players he will probably always be a bad option for. I think I heard Self recently within the past month say his pick and roll defense was really good (before the injury) so that's something Doke can hang his hat on as something he does well that the NBA relies heavily on.
I hope Doke comes back and wants another year to work on his game. He's had about 50 games of actual basketball in his life so there is no substitute for a player like him simply getting more experience. If he leaves and hopes someone gives him a chance, anywhere, he might not get the personalized treatment he would get at KU over this summer/fall that can actually help him.
I think he's been gone this whole season. Just my thought and his post game comments certainly didn't leave much to decipher from the way I saw it in regards to his decision as well. Knowing his family situation and the struggles he's been put through to get here he's certainly in a position to change that now. Another year doesn't guarantee anything, he could get injured again and miss his chance or he could have a really good season and give himself more stability in seeking a contract. Whatever he chooses I support, selfishly I'd like to see him in a KU uniform another year. I do think if he leaves KU is prepared for it.
Thank you for making this great board possible!
People will see the loss differently. Just remember that, no one likes to see this team lose and the fashion in which we did it wasn't pretty.
I mean the announcers kept saying how shocked they were during the game how the game was going they certainly expected it to be close and competitive and it wasn't.
I happen to feel nothing from this loss personally. It was over early, there was never a true moment KU was making a comeback. Sucks, we played so great to get here. Maybe we shot our shot against Duke. The mental hurdles we crossed beating them was huge. Losing to nova 2 yrs ago was tough to take given how close it was and in the nature of how the game got away from us. This one just felt over after 4 possessions which is never a good feeling
Anyways I wouldn't take others opinions of the loss too serious, we are all a grieving bunch today. So close to glory but yet still so far..
As soon as it was 9-2 We looked like we were hit with a haymaker. Once it was 22-4 they were already mentally defeated.
Whatever they had worked on all week was gone because it was all about playing catch up. Taking 8 shots in the first 8 minutes was deflating. We couldn't make shots or get them up. That killed everything. We looked slow and just not ready. Congrats to Wright for having them ready to go.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BeddieKU23 so you could care less what happens to doke?
Not at all I hope he seeks options to get money to support his family. 2 significant injuries in 2 years, someone will take a chance on him. He's young and there is already enough skills to work with and obviously some that can be worked on. All I'm saying if he leaves I support it and with the kids we have we might actually be better in the long run going that route
In my opinion ku would be better starting Lawson and silvio and getting started on the future with McCormack and Kj
As we have seen with his story and his mom doke has a family to look after. He's going to find someone that can take care of him and his family. In 4-5 years he could be something if he's healthy.. definitely young enough for some pro team to take him. And by pro team that could be anywhere overseas
Michigan is helplessly overmatched but they defend so it will be lower scoring then 95
He's better then sam. Sam apparently didn't know much about being a basketball player so I wouldn't lump them together
What I always come back to is we took Charlie and could have had someone to help us this yr.. he better pay off
Barrett is a future stud. Jones is going to have some tough moments, Dotson is better then him. They look like a team that will have no bench or size but they might get another 5 star in montgomery.. who knows I don't see it with them
kuballin10 said:
BigBad said:
I see Moore as a Russel Robinson type for Self.
Yikes u will be really dissappointed. He’s short, not quick, doesn’t produce turnovers. Not sure where u got ur analysis
He was a freshman asked to carry a big role on a really bad cal team. His size is what concerns me the most as he's looked like a middle school player since he got here. He can play and with a possible 4 years here it will be impossible to expect he won't step up at some point
kuballin10 said:
@BigBad I know I’m gonna puke when Nova comes in and pounds us by 15 in Allen...I know they lose a lot so we probably win but duke will destroy us next year playing what I call golden state ball
I don't see duke being any better then this year. Even younger no knock down shooters a lot of positionless players
Moore will be nice in future years
After tonight we might be better off having doke go