How is that we get beat so often down court with the team speed we have???
DCHawker
4842 posts
We are supposed to be the veteran poised team - WTF!
Stop settling for quick 3s dammit - drive the frigging ball.......
@BeddieKU23 said:
@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BeddieKU23 wasn't even expecting that
When Is he
Not sure it would matter if he was expecting it....
Missed lay-ups, missed dunks and WAY too many TOs....
And we need to take advantage of Bridges being out...
I don't think they have anyone who can check Frank - drive all night long...
Lid on the basket for us. But, not sure why we are settling for so many quick jumpers. Our guys are "sped" up. Run the offense....
MSU certainly isn't showing any jitters...
JJ needs to show Bridges who should be the first pick.....
@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@Hawk8086 only getting 1 million
I think he was only getting $1M at OSU and will double that at Illinois?
@wissox I am a Kansan, and I'm rooting for them and KSU. Heretical, i know....
@BShark Don't know about UCD, but the team they beat was actually much higher ranked in RPI and Kenpom than most 16s.
I've been in and out, so apologies if already noted, but all 5 starters in double figures. Great to see everyone contributing at the same time....
@Crimsonorblue22 What's the risk now? - more risk with starters in....
Mitch is in, but Colby should be in for LL - why risk anything at this point????????
Where has this team been the past 2 months?????
@jaybate-1.0 Well, if theory didn't start there, certainly more practical experience than about anywhere else...
@approxinfinity said:
Wow Svi!
Wow on the great shot or idiotic foul.... Didn't learn his lesson from TCU....
I want half a century at the half...
@HawkChamp said:
@DCHawker much of that is hitting shots.
Yeah - but contribute in other areas if the shots aren't falling. Not put your head down with you tail between your legs...
At some point during this tournament we are going to need at least one of Vick and Svi to step up. Not just avoid the negative plays, but actually be value added on the court....
@Texas-Hawk-10 said:
Turning it on now, keep it up and stretch the lead to 15-20 by halftime.
And not the more typical, immediately give most of it back....
JJ come to play....
What is with these rushed outside jumpers. Drive the ball or feed the post. This is one team where we can dominate inside and draw lots and lots of fouls. I don't get what is going through their collective heads right now. Sped up as HCBS would say, but all self-inflicted...
Svi isn't set on a lot of those 3s - rushing the shot...
UCD really doesn't have much - we need to win this by 20 or 30. I don't want to see anything like the Villanova and Gonzaga games where it was basically tied at half. Not sure I can believe i'm saying this, but we should be going down low to LL or JJ every time down the court.
The good news is that we at least appear to be much more engaged on the defensive end. Still a bit tight on O....
@jaybate-1.0 Spot on. Don't know if it still is, but was known as the "bike capital" of America (make silk purse out of the flatness). Home of the leading oenology program; has been a critical part of the growth of the CA wine industry. The Mondavi Institute there is great to visit.
@KirkIsMyHinrich said:
The only way NMSU is going to beat you is by shooting 3's. So keep playing a zone, Scott Drew.
And, he will, which raises the distinct possibility that BU will go out for the 3rd years in a row in the first round to a double digit seed. BU is supposed to be a top defensive team and gives up 40 points in half to the NMSU. Just boggles the mind...
@drgnslayr Great stuff, 'slayr. I haven't gone back and re-watched many games, but I've certainly noticed on various occasions - and noted them during game threads - that our weak side guards are caught in "no-man's land" - esp. an issue for Svi. Apart from watching our own tape, it's like we've not watched tape of the opponents to know their tendencies. Even casual fans, and I expect most on this board are far more than that, know that there are certain guys on the other teams that you simply don't leave open on the arc, but we seem to routinely do it. The problem is compounded by the fact that the guys getting caught in "no man's land" not only don't close out quickly enough when the ball is reversed or there is a skip pass, they also languish there when shot goes up from the strong side, not really providing any help on the boards - and not blocking out their guy if they crash the boards.
How they do watch some tape - or at least your post gets posted in the locker room!
Our buddy Fran has an all ACC and P12 Final Four - no love for KU - but we know that... Chalk it up to envy of Self - Fran won exactly one NCAA tournament game in his distinguished career. Did really well in the NIT, however....
So sayeth HCBS following the TCU game. Now, he was talking about the defense, rather than tightening up during NCAA games, which has arguably been a separate problem - and he said they need to work on "everything." But, there isn't time to work on everything, right? So what should be the focus?
A couple of interesting data points in a Washington Post article today (forget the source, its the data that is relevant) looking at vulnerabilities of several teams. I've noted elsewhere that this has been worst KU team from a defensive efficiency standpoint during the Self era, but a couple of things really leaped out.
According to the Post, opponents are shooting 36% from 3pt range against the 'Hawks - which ranks 212th!!! in the country. Already was an issue against ISU at Allen. Both Purdue and ISU are ranked in the top 20 in 3pt FG%. Is that mostly an effort issue? Poor ball screen execution?
Perhaps more problematic - we are allowing opponents to get 30% of available offensive rebounds - those second chance point opportunities help keep even poor shooting teams in the game and help wear down the defense.
And, not sure I believe this one, but apparently, we have the ball stolen on almost 10% of possessions, which ranks 294th in the country. Ouch. Certainly was painful against TCU when they had 12 steals and 10 offensive boards against us.
Can we "tighten" these things up? Anything else Self is likely focused on this week?
One other thing that we probably can't fix at this juncture. Our FT % ranks 283rd in the country - only 4 teams in the tournament shoot FTs worse than we do. But, as Self noted, our FT % during B12 play was 3-4 % points higher than the season average, so at least that one is trending the right direction.
Let's hope the boys can do some major "tightening" on defense - but otherwise play fast and loose....
@BeddieKU23 Good analysis - agree with all of these as at least potential upsets. Would add to the mix Xavier over Maryland, which is one of the most over-seeded teams in the field and Wake Forest over Cincinnati (and yes, I would pick WF over KSU in the play-in game).
A related question to yours - how vulnerable do folks think the B12 teams are to a first round upset? Our higher seeded teams have crashed and burned early and often in the past few years. Believe of the 4 either 14-3 or 13-4 upsets in the most recent tournaments, 3 of them have been B12 teams.
Frankly, other than KU, I'm not highly confident with any of the B12 first round match-ups. And, although I hope it doesn't come to pass, I could easily see KU as the only one surviving the first weekend. Even if they win their first round games, I like ND over WVU (ND is a very good ball-handling, passing team) and SMU over Baylor. I think ISU can beat Purdue, but Nevada could present a very strong first round test as they are probably under-seeded and have a couple of potential NBA guys on the team. And, I think OSU got a bad match-up for them, and even if they get by Michigan, I don't think they have a snow-balls chance against Louisville.
And, at risk of going down the @jaybate-2.0 rabbit hole on East Coast bias and the whole thing is engineered is anyway, the ACC was clearly handed gift seeds and match-ups. Easy paths for UNC and Duke. Notre Dame was given the only easy 5-12 match-up. FSU as the overall 10th ranked team????
As much as I wish it were otherwise, I do think the ACC is the strongest conference, especially over the top 5 or 6 in the conference, but this is ridiculous...
In the "the Selection Committee is officially a bunch of morons" category, how can it be that Wisconsin is an #8 seed - behind Maryland and Minnesota and on the same line with Northwestern? Finished tied for second in the conference regular season and got to the title game, which none of the other 3 did. Truly defies explanation...
Looking at all 4 regions, I kind of wish we had fallen to a #2 seed and been shipped West, which looks to be easiest bracket overall by far. Toughest is the South, although almost all of the strength is the bottom half. UNC and Duke seem to have easy paths to the E8; no surprise there.
Midwest presents some challenges, but if we're playing well is manageable. I don't like the potential of ISU in the Sweet 16 game, but we both have to get there first....
Not apropos of that much, but SMU just won the AAC tournament over Cincy - basically a 6 man rotation. Remarkably, according to the announcers, their starters scored all but 11 of their points during the tournament. There are teams out there with even shorter benches...
@drgnslayr To answer your question, is this the worst defensive team under Self, the answer is YES, at least as measured by KenPom defensive efficiency ratings - and it's not really close. In 10 of the last 12 years prior to this one, KU has had a top 10 ranked defense; 6 times in the top 5. The two lowest ranked years were '09 at #12 and '14 at 22. Right now we're ranked 30th in DER. As I've pointed out elsewhere, no team has ever won a national championship with that low a defensive ranking. Now, those rankings are post tournament, so perhaps we will tighten up on the defensive end - although we've actually regressed on the metrics over the past few games.
You and @HawkChamp suggest that its that we're just not hungry enough on defense. I do think effort and awareness does come into play - esp. on transition defense (or lack thereof) - we've given up way too many transition baskets, which is very uncharacteristic of a Self-coached team. And, I agree that the short bench is used too much as an excuse, although it may be in the back of the guys minds that they need to pace themselves. But really, with every game from here on in, you get all the extra TV timeouts and you only play two games in a week. No excuse not to go hard the entire game.
But, I don't think it is just an effort issue. We simply don't have the right line-up and skills sets to be elite defensively. Other than LL, no wide bodies and other teams get more offensive rebounds and put backs, which means giving up more points per possession. We have virtually no rim protection to make up to cover up easy penetration - many of the blocked shots we've recorded have actually been from behind on transition - not in the half court rejecting drives to the hoop.
I think the primary issue is that certain players have no lateral quickness at all - Svi on the perimeter and LL and Bragg in the post. The former problem is obvious; with the latter two it means that they are often late with help defense. Combine the above with the apparent lack of court awareness on the the part of Svi, Vick and Bragg and the tendency of DG and JJ to lunge at the opposing player trying to get a steal, which allows an easy blow-by if not successful, it adds up to a team that gives up a lot of easy baskets - and to make at best average teams look like offensive juggernauts.
I'm hopeful that with the short calendar - there really is no tomorrow - and additional rest due to TV timeouts, the guys will put in the requisite effort on the defensive end. And, I would like to see us throw in a few possessions of zone and pressure to keep the other teams off-balance. And, I think our guys get much more focused on the defensive end when they are applying pressure.
We're not going to be an elite defensive team. But, we don't have to be. Given that we are an elite offensive team, we just need to be better that we have been. We shall see...
@Crimsonorblue22 True, but I seem to recall that UConn once had to win 4 in 4 nights in the Big East and went on to the title. And, whoever wins the B12 tournament will have had to win at least 3 in a row....
@kjayhawks said:
The trouble yesterday was flat out not competing on defense or the glass. ISU is spanking TCU.
Spanking is an understatement. And, ISU is definitely NOT known for their defense, but they've held TCU to 50 points with 5 minutes to go. And, yet we gave up 85 to a team that hadn't scored more than 74 in their 7 game losing streak to end the season - only broken 70 twice.
@JayHawkFanToo said:
KU and Villanova are pretty safe as a #1 seeds in the Mid West and East. Whoever wins the ACC will get #1 seed in the South and either the winner of the PAC 12 or Gonzaga will get the #1 seed in the West. It is really that simple.
I agree that Villanova is a safe #1 seed in the East. I guess I would agree that KU is "pretty safe" #1 seed in the MW, although I don't think that is a slam dunk. Back to that in a second. I respectfully disagree that the ACC winner is the #1 seed in the South, UNLESS it is UNC. I don't think there is any chance FSU, Duke or ND get a #1 seed if they end up winning the ACC. In that case, I think the most likely scenario is that UK moves to the top line in the South, IF they win the SEC or the P12 winner gets moved to the South as the #1 seed.
As to KU staying on the #1 seed line, I think there is at least some possibility they could be supplanted by UCLA if they win out (and assuming UNC does win the ACC). In that case, they would be 31-3. Worse overall strength of schedule that ours, but certainly comparable top quality wins - same win at UK plus 2 wins each against Oregon and Arizona, plus a decent Michigan win, and, more importantly, no bad losses. Again, I do think KU holds the #1 in the MW, just that it isn't a slam dunk given that conference tournaments can impact the overall season long profile.
Gosh - I really think folks are over complicating things. Seedings per selection committee rules are based on the overall body of work. 3 most important things are who did you play (strength of schedule, esp. non-conference); who did you beat (are there good wins); and who did you lose to (are there bad losses).
The reason that there can be at least some movement as a result of conference tournaments is that it can result in bad losses, i.e., first round losses by high seeds to the lowest seeds, and that there are opportunities to pick up multiple quality wins if you continue to advance.
KU had either the best or second best (to Villanova) overall body of work at the end of the regular season, but that is NOT the complete body of work that the committee considers. So, we "added" a not good, if not bad, loss and have no further opportunity to add quality wins. In contrast to us, others positioning for the #1 seed line have all avoided bad losses and are picking up additional quality wins - with more still possible - which would improve their overall body of work relative to KU.
Having said that, I think it is still likely that KU ends up with a #1 seed, although I don't think that is assured. I think Gonzaga will stay a #1 at this point. Villanova will be a #1 regardless of what happens in their game tonight given that they and KU were close before and they advanced further and a loss to SH would not be as "bad" at the one to TCU given a much better RPI. IF UNC wins the ACC, having beaten Louisville, Duke and probably FSU, then they would certainly be a #1 - maybe as Lunardi had projected, the overall #1. But, if UNC loses, then they probably fall off the #1 line - at the very least, KU would stay ahead of them. The question mark is the P12. I think there is at least a possibility that that the winner there gets a #1 seed - whether Oregon, UCLA, or Arizona - most likely in that order - win out. One would get 2 more quality wins. And, if UNC does lose in the ACC tourney, then I think it is highly likely that the P12 winner gets a #1 seed and the ACC gets shut out.
So, I think there is at least a possibility that KU gets passed, but we would then end up with as no worse than the highest #2 and would still play in Tulsa and probably KC. Not the worst fate, because either Gonzaga or more likely the P12 winner would be the #1 in the bracket and I'm not afraid of any of those match-ups....
@mayjay said:
@DCHawker said:
But a short bench doesn’t explain the blow-bys, the poor blocking out, not closing out on 3 point shooters, and poor transition defense.
FWIW, precisely what do you think does explain these things? And do you think they happen to KU more than other teams?
I think they happen more with this team than other Self coached KU teams - this is statistically the worst team Self has had during his tenure at KU. By no means are we statistically one of the worst teams defensively in the country - other top teams aren't particularly strong defensively, e.g., UCLA and Duke. But, there clearly are much better defensive teams out there, e.g., Louisville and UVA (although they can be offensively challenged).
As to the why, IMO the primary issue, although not the only one, is a lack of lateral quickness at some key spots. Svi, Bragg and LL, particularly. This impacts not only guarding on the perimeter, but also in the post defense. When combined with limited rim protection from a length and athleticism standpoint, we give up way too many easy baskets at the rim. And, other than LL, we don't do a very good job of boxing out, which is why we also give up too many ORs and easy put-backs.
What has particularly vexing has been our poor transition defense that past several games - we've given up a lot of lay-ups after we've made buckets on the other guys have gotten the defensive rebound. We have plenty of team speed - that is an issue of hustle and awareness.
Some of it is correctable but some isn't. I don't think we are or can be an elite defensive team. But, we don't have to be - we just need to be better defensively than we have been and Self clearly knows it - which he characterizes as "tightening up a few thing."
Personally, I would like to see us mix it up a little during the tournament given that we are simply not a typical Self man-to-man team - throw in a few possessions of zone and apply some pressure in key situations. Not only would that keep the other team off balance, and mask some of our deficiencies, but I think it also helps our guys with focus and intensity - esp. when we apply pressure or trap.
@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@DCHawker do you think part of our poor D is based on our very, very short bench?
Strikes me at an excuse or rationalization. Sure, with a short bench - and really no shorter than a lot of teams - it means we can't pressure the whole game and need to manage foul trouble. But a short bench doesn't explain the blow-bys, the poor blocking out, not closing out on 3 point shooters, and poor transition defense.
@Texas-Hawk-10 said:
@DCHawker They were playing without Jackson today and Self has never cared much about winning the B12 tournament. There's a reason why is winning % in this tournament is anything worth bragging about.
Maybe Self doesn't put a lot of stock in winning the B12 tournament, but he seemed pretty animated today. The technical seemed intended to get the team fired up, esp. as it was an easy goal tend call and he really lit into the players during TCU's early second half run. Just didn't seem to me like he didn't care.