🏀 KuBuckets Archive

DoubleDD said:

I'm not sure you can fix Doka's shooting mechanics. Remember this kid didn't start playing organized basketball until later in his life. He so far behind the learning curve on how to actually shoot, I'm just not sure there is enough time to catch up?

there may not be enough time, but of course it can be fixed. I don't believe that he is physically incapable of moving his right elbow inward toward his rib cage, nor do I believe he is incapable of releasing the ball on his right side instead of his left. Until definitively proven otherwise, I believe it can be fixed.

benshawks08 said:

@Big-Clyde52 Ok buddy. Just relax. Bill Self made a calculated decision. He knew his actions could likely cost THIS GAME, but he wanted his player to know he had confidence in him for the rest of the SEASON. He was thinking long term. He knew we had a two game lead in the league race, he knew Doke is going to have to shoot free throws at some point in March. He decided to sacrifice the security of winning this game for future benefits. Will it pay off? Maybe, maybe not. But it wasn't bone headed and shouldn't cause anyone to lose any sleep.

Honestly, I'll be surprised if he doesn't leave Doke in again at least one more time in conference play and likely once in the conference tournament. It is abundantly clear that KU is at its best when Doke is in the game and Self wants to maximize the time KU can be at its best. That means giving Doke opportunities to fix his freethrow situation in game. You know he's been practicing and Self must have seen at least some progress to give him that opportunity. It just isn't showing in games yet.

I do also think Self left him in do get at Lon a little bit. Self prescribes to certain myths about manhood and I think he was challenging Kruger's manhood by leaving him in there. Kinda saying, "if that's how low you want to stoop to win, I'm not going to bail you out by pulling him. You can't control what players I play when. I'm going to make you go into that press room and talk about how your team couldn't defend mine and had to resort to intentional fouling to eek out a win in your own building." If Kruger prescribes to similar myths, this may very well impact future matchups and the confidence of his team. If not, well...the #12 team beat the #5 team at home by 5. Next.

I hope your explanation is not what Self thought, though it may be true. Last night was one the dumbest times to prove a point. Summer time is the season for improving your free throws, not a conference road game against a top ten team. As others have said, very disappointing to see the staff and Dok fail miserably at something so simple.

Hawk8086 said:

@HawkChamp Self gave his explanation.....He believed you should leave your best players in. Also, he believed that Doke could hit half of those FTs...if so, it might have been a different game.
He admitted that it turned out to be a bad decision.
I don't think there was a hidden Agenda.

The thing that leaves me questioning a hidden agenda is it just wasnt one time, but OU kept fouling. This happened from the four minute mark onward, yet no adjustment from Self. I mean, the four times Dok went to the line were a turnover because we didn't even get a shot off. Not acceptable.

BeddieKU23 said:

HawkChamp said:

BeddieKU23 said:

wissox said:

Vick and DG shooting 1-13 on threes might have had something to do with the loss too.

Graham was 4-19 from the field. He took 9 shots last night without making a single pass. Certainly didn't help

And yet we were still in a position to win the game. Dominated them the entire second half and whenever Dok was in (outside the last tv timeout).

Yes we were in a position to win, we controlled the first 18 minutes of the 2nd half. However when you shoot that poorly and take a bunch of "me, me, me" shots, the FT's and our coaches decision (lack their of) were not the only contributing factors to the outcome of the game.

When Graham shoots poorly this team is always going to be in a position to lose.

Even in spite of a bad shooting night from Devonte, we still could have won the game. Not everyone is going to be on their A+ game every night shooting wise, but the team as a whole did enough to win until Self decided to allow Dok to be in a free throw contest. He's paid millions to make the correct decisions, especially about obvious stuff.

@ParisHawk that would have been the logical decision yes.

mayjay said:

Maybe Self let Doke find out what the consequences are of not accepting coaching. Only half way thru the conf season, so there is time for a major Dok attitude adjustment.

Lots of critics on this site have claimed Self wins the conference at the expense of March. I think we just witnessed Self risking the conference in order to prep Dok for March. "Scared straight."

So your point is Dok may not be accepting coaching? Possible, but unlikely. Look at how far he has come with his game.

HighEliteMajor said:

@KirkIsMyHinrich I would suggest that Doke bears NONE of the blame. It is this coaching staff that has permitted him to shoot free throws like this. That is permitting a player to be in a clear and distinct position to fail. What would one think if that staff permitted Doke to shoot hook shots on his free throw attempts? I personally think this is worse. A hook shot at least is acceptable in form. This abomination is not. If the staff puts a player in a position to succeed, that's really all you can ask. This is the opposite. Self took responsibility for the result, but of course the supposed "reporters" don't ever ask any tough or direct questions related to the clear and obvious "form" issues -- the "why" is this happening inquiry.

I wonder if any of Self's assistants wondered "what the blank is Self thinking?" I rarely question the quality of Roberts and Townsend and they seem like quality coaches who genuinely care, but sometimes I wonder if Self needs a coach who is not afraid to be fully honest with him in these situations. Sure, it'd be risky at times, but that move was not about confidence and, frankly, was wrong and unfair of Self to do to his own player. I imagine Dok feels he lost the game for them which is not true. The coach is supposed to know limitations and maneuver around them when its crunch time - maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses. Unless there is info we don't know and arent privy to, last nights late game maneuver is possibly the worst D1 coaching decision I've ever seen.

@mayjay thats entirely possible. If that were the case, I would like to think Self would be smart enough to not put Dok in those kinds of situations. He must have a hidden agenda for doing what he did because even people who dont know much or care at all about basketball knew what the proper move was.

BeddieKU23 said:

wissox said:

Vick and DG shooting 1-13 on threes might have had something to do with the loss too.

Graham was 4-19 from the field. He took 9 shots last night without making a single pass. Certainly didn't help

And yet we were still in a position to win the game. Dominated them the entire second half and whenever Dok was in (outside the last tv timeout).

DanR said:

Listening to Self in the post game interview, it was probably not Doke's confidence on the line tonight.

Guess you have to see what you've got to work with in crunch time at some point.

Thanks captain obvious. Because none of us were aware that Dok is a horrible shooter (sarcasm).

cragarhawk said:

The idea that you can't work on changing his shot at this point in season is just foolish. What's he gonna do go 0-7? Big deal. From the sound of it the strategy isnt gonna change moving forward...

So... Same strategy, and same mechanics=??? I guess alot more "This is on me, I screwed up"

Sounds like the definition of insanity and the reason we don't win in March. Self is still stubborn about things and that won't change.

DanR said:

@nuleafjhawk In the past, I would agree. I liked Lucas over Diallo (who couldn't be in position on an inbounds play to save his life). Where'd that get us in the tourney? Loserville.

I'm liking this new coach who lets players screw up in real time and lose games. The Big 12 is meaningless. Final fours and championships are the goal.

If you are hoping for final fours and titles, you are rooting for the wrong program. Self struggles mightily in March.

Big Clyde52 said:

@Bwag Of course Self lost this game. Even worse he may have cost us the streak. Instead of 7-1 and in complete control of the conference, we are now going to have to scramble and claw to win it. I am still in disbelief of the way he blew this game. Complete stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and failing each time. And I do not give a damn what excuse he uses for doing it. Build confidence? Bull Sht! Send a message? Bull Sht!! There is absolutely no excuse to take away a hard fought road win from your team. And that is what he did. I wonder what confidence he instilled in his team with that coaching decision??

+1000

DCHawker said:

@HawkChamp I don't know if choke is the word, but if HCBS gets credit for coaching genius for the other close wins, this loss is on him. Simply can't have Doke in at the end of close games. 6 straight missed FTs and not one was close. Plus, the offensive after we were down 2 had Doke in the corner - what the f*** is the point of that - no reason to have him in the game if they can defend 5 on 4. The last 4 minutes, we didn't come close to have a good offensive possession - only score was a put back. Really solid 35+ minutes just wasted in the last 4-5 minutes....

Agreed. Really dumb move by Self. Just makes me wonder what is going on sometimes.

@cragarhawk or someone who has received any sort of instruction. Simply pathetic for a program to not teach any sort of basic mechanics. Unacceptable

Reminiscent of the Michigan choke.

Yes he absolutely cost us the game. An elite eight style choke for Self again.

That was an elite eight style choke by Self. No doubt we are the better team but the score won't show it.

hawkmoon2020 said:

Was thinking the same thing. Must have been a reason. Maybe to give him more confidence and experience making FT in future games? Nah!

You'd think Self is smarter than that. But two final fours does say a lot.

hawkmoon2020 said:

We're not going to win every close game, but I think we blew it with Doke missing FTs. Should have subbed him out earlier.

Self blew it. Three straight times were three turnovers. Kept Oklahoma in it. Self was an idiot.

No way we should have lost. We were clearly the better team when Dok played outside of crunch time. Self was an idiot tonight.

What was Self thinking? Three straight turnovers! This loss will be because of his choke.

Need to continue to attack and play smart defensively. Need stops!!!!

Malik has been good. Need Devonte to make smart decisions, Svi and Malik to continue to drive the ball and Dok to stay on the floor. OU doesn't have an answer for him and only went on that run when he was on the bench.

@Crimsonorblue22 that's why playing smart is so important. Oklahoma went on this run when Dok went out. He has to play smart and not try to block every shot. That's playing stupid, not smart. Could cost us this game. They aren't better than us.

HighEliteMajor said:

!alt text ↗

OK, got the photo to load right. That's better.

Holy smokes thats bad! Not to boast, but i went to state in the elks hoop shoot in high school and the third round in another. A decent form is not rocket science and it makes me wonder what they are telling him about his stroke. Shoot, just give me a half hour and I could fix several issues he has.

I also don't buy the "big hands" excuse. I can shoot with proper form on a nerf hoop, so I think it's kind of a bad reason for improper technique.

@BeddieKU23 you don't have to go back forever to find a team that struggled at home. Folks complained about these exact same problems last year. This time last year, everyone was convinced the team had a sweet sixteen ceiling or something similar.

@BShark beard has quite a squad this year. I don't think we win in Lubbock but maybe I'll be surprised again.

@JayHawkFanToo he was very inefficient and took bad shot a on multiple occassions. He did not have a good game by any stretch.

@BShark yes

@JayHawkFanToo and west virginia. The physical and tough defense of both teams caused Oklahoma a lot of problems.

Statie again helping us be in position to win the league. Thanks Bruce and co!

Bosthawk said:

Is it me, or did we see a semblance of a real “team” tonite? They might have just gotten an identity ..
they looked to me like a band of brothers fighting hard and playing scrappy tough D and sticking together. Let’s hope it’s a big step forward!!

(Awaiting a pithy lengthy tome on this subject from Sir Jay of Bate...)

You are correct. They fought side by side through thick and thin.

After all the crap the team has received about being soft and Self's worst, that was 2012 level tough. Very impressive.

@Kcmatt7 I agree. This is blatantly biased.

@KirkIsMyHinrich agreed. I rarely get frustrated with officials, but that was awful. I hope someone follows up with this. Konate is allowed to celebrate all he wants

If we defend and rebound like this when they come to allen, I like our chances. We always play stupid there and the officials get caught up in the environment. We can win it at home.

This is why we lose here every year. Just playing stupid. I'm having flashes of Jordan bell last year. I wish there would be some coaching about how to handle this stuff better.

@Kcmatt7 I like your opinions. West Virginia is not a great shooting team, so we should use a zone and pack in the lane. Better than getting bullied in the lane and giving up offensive rebounds and layups. Self won't do it. Bank on it

@Texas-Hawk-10 did that matter in 2010 with Butler? Or 2011 with VCU? Or in 2017 with South Carolina and Gonzaga?

@AsadZ agreed. That's the only way we will win. Too weak and undisciplined in other areas.

@Texas-Hawk-10 you don't have to have sweet sixteen or elite eight experience to be a final four contender. That has zero to do with how teams will do in March. People hang on to these notions that we see year after year do not matter once the tourney starts.

@BShark the eye test reveals zero difference between the mistakes the starters make and the mistakes Sam makes. I see zero difference

JayHawkFanToo said:

@Gunman

The 5 minutes would be great, the 5 fouls not so much as they get the other team to the bonus situation that much sooner which is not a desirable thing.

Which is why teams don't foul Dok more.

@BShark how is what you just described different than what the rest of the team occassionally exhibits every game?

BShark said:

Graham did a great job being a PG tonight.

In big 12 play, he's been putting up Trae Young numbers.

@BigBad agreed. I like what I'm seeing as far as attacking the basket.

BShark said:

Got killed on the glass again so hopefully we get reinforcements soon.

Right - soon.

cragarhawk said:

@HawkChamp ?

You said verboten.

cragarhawk said:

@HighEliteMajor I notice it more even at HS and Jr. High levels these days. All that type of thing was strictly verboten when I played. In fact. Any sort of end zone celebration at all after a touchdown would get you unsportsmanlike... I'm not sure why or when it all became okay. I find myself looking for the kids that don't do it. It's a rarity.

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