@Gunman The women only lost by single digits 3 times last year in Big 12 play and one of those was a 9 point loss. Washington's injury didn't have that big an impact on their record. 10 of their losses were 15+ points with several by 30+. You're kidding yourself if think Jessica Washington's injury would've made a significant difference in KU's record last year. 3 wins at best is what she probably would've changed, probably 2, which still is a crappy season.
Texas Hawk 10
9941 posts
@jayballer73 I can still support the women while being skeptical what they'll accomplish this season. Not much different than football.
It doesn't take nearly as long to turn around a basketball team as it does a football program and Schneider chose a route that is not the best. He went with a lot of transfers from other P5 programs. Just like in football, very few of those transfers have panned out as expected it's hurt the program.
I don't hold the women to same standard as the men because they don't have that history. But Schneider has yet to even sniff the postseason and if he doesn't make the NCAA tournament this year, it'll need to be time to move on from him.
I'll also say the same thing about baseball. Ritch Price has been here far too long for how little he's accomplished on the field. Price has only finished in the top half of the B12 three times in 16 years. They've also been especially bad over the past 4 seasons with only one winning season.
@Gunman God forbid I'm skeptical of this team being able to do much in B12 play considering the past 3 years after they've had good nonconference records the past 2.
The UH athletic department is a complete mess right now. Tilman Fertitta is trying to be Boone Pickens for them by essentially running the athletic department himself, or least final approval on all major issues.
There's two reasons why Holgerson is going to end up at UH. One is he was a former assistant coach at UH, and two is he's wanted out of WVU for several years now that's not a secret either.
It's not going to be a look for either side when stories start leaking about specific reasons Holgerson wanted out of WVU and it won't be a good look at UH because they're trying to get into the B12 the same way Missouri tried to get into the B10.
It's going to backfire on UH big time and they're getting into the B12 anytime in the bear future.
The women played a very soft nonconference schedule. They have yet to play an RPI top 75 team. LSU at 76 is their best win. Their SOS is in the 160's which is really low among other P5 teams with similar records.
Basically, this group has to actually show they can win in the B12 because they did this last year going 9-2 in nonconference and then only going 3-15 in league play. If Schneider doesn't get this team to the NCAA tournament this year, he needs to be gone because he's been about as bad as Beaty in Big 12 play. KU is 5-49 in Big 12 play under Schneider which is 9%. His seat is just as hot as Beaty's was.
mayjay said:
@kjayhawks @Texas-Hawk-10 T
Perfectly willing to watch big event soccer like World Cup--but not interested in paying. As to Euro soccer I just cannot fathom American interest.
Top leagues in Europe are where the vast majority of the top players in world play so the quality of play is much better than in MLS. MLS has made some serious strides in the 25 or so years the league has been around, it it still has a long ways to go to even be a top 10 league in the world. The number US national team players based in MLS instead of Europe is a huge reason why the national team is average at best.
kjayhawks said:
@mayjay @Texas-Hawk-10 If I wanted to watch someone struggle to score for 90 minutes, I'd take my friends to the bar lol. Baseball is almost as bad when a pitchers duel. I stopped playing baseball after my freshman year tho I lettered in it. I played all 3 positions in the field and had multiple games where zero balls came my way. It was a complete waste of time IMO.
I'll agree that baseball can be very slow paced and extremely boring at times because of how much down time there is during a game.
Soccer may not be high scoring, but there is always something going on during a match. I really would highly recommend checking out a match in person at some point because it is a lot of fun and a great atmosphere.
mayjay said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 The next time I pay to watch soccer would be my first.... But it would be good for fans who watch that and other things you mentioned. Not moi, however!
You're missing out. It took me a long time to get into soccer, but it really is a lot of fun once you get into it. I wouldn't recommend MLS as a start though because it is a 3rd tier soccer league compared to the big 4 in Europe (Premier League in England, La Liga in Spain, Bundesliga in Germany, and Serie A in Italy).
I would also recommend watching the Women's World Cup next summer as a way to get into it as well. US Women are one of the most dominant nations in women's soccer and there's much less flopping and overacting in women's soccer which is one of big knocks by most fans against men's soccer.
It's also a lot of fun to go to in person. If you're in the KC area, Chidren's Mercy is a really nice stadium and one of the best environments in MLS. Sporting KC is also usually one of the top teams in MLS on a yearly basis so it's a good team unlike what I have down here in Houston. Ticket prices are comparable to Royals games as well so it's not insanely expensive like Chiefs games are.
BShark said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 If I didn't already have PSVUE I'd consider it.
I don't live in Kansas or KC, I don't get KC channels, I have to have it for KU games which was my initial reason for getting it. However, I started watching other stuff and it's definitely worth the $5 a month for all of other content on there that's not on national TV.
mayjay said:
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
I can't wait to cancel my ESPN+ subscription after the game. I'm really excited about it.
Did it! Thanks for the reminder. Mine would have renewed on Jan 1.
There's a ton of good stuff on ESPN+ to watch, including KU women who seem to be quite a bit better this year so far. Not challenging for the B12 good, but should be able to make the NCAA Tournament good. There's also soccer from international leagues along with MLS, NHL, NBA, other college games from non P5 leagues. I didn't think I'd keep it, but I've used it pretty regularly and think it's a pretty good deal.
@justanotherfan KU could win the Big 12 and still not sniff the CFP. Texas went into the B12 title game at 9-3 this year. Had they beaten OU a second time this year, they still wouldn't have sniffed the CFP as they were ranked 14th going into that game. They weren't moving up 10 spots.
Even though the 2nd place team has been 7-2 since the return of the game. I don't think it'll be all that uncommon for a 6-3 record to make the B12 title game. It'll probably be a 3 way tie or something like that to get a 6-3 record in the B12 title game so KU could get there in a few years and if they get lucky with tie breakers.
I don't see KU making the CFP because the B12 schedule doesn't allow for something like 2007 to happen anymore. I don't think KU would've beaten OU that year anyway.
Garrett will never be a great offensive player so the best way to overcome that is to mask his deficiencies. He was a PG in HS and is a very good facilitator on offense. Let him run the show and be the 1 on offense. That's his best use on offense because it forces the defense to pay attention to him.
He is however KU's best defender by far and can effectively guard 1-4 as we've seen the past 2 years. The points he prevents from being scored on the defensive end make up for his lack of scoring ability on the offensive end.
JayHawkFanToo said:
Difficult situation. When several generations of the family have played for KU I will guess they expected some preferential treatment that apparently Miles was not willing to give. While I understand that the coach has to look for the best players available, given that there are scholarships available, perhaps a good will gesture would have gone a long ways and it is possible that the local pipeline might have been damages in the process.
If it was a bigger class with closer to the full 25, you could do that. Les Miles is not in the business of kissing ass though, he's in the business of winning football games and has to be very selective in this recruiting class because it's only 60% of a regular class size.
This also says that KU will be running Chip Lindsey's offense and Les Miles offense because Miles absolutely utilized a fullback more than just about any other P5 program not named Georgia Tech. Were KU running Les Miles pro style system, Jax would've been one of the first players offered by Miles.
With all this said, I do wonder if Jay Dineen will transfer out due to this.
The problem with Garrett and Grimes is that they stayed in Texas for their HS careers. Texas is not good HS basketball. The level of competition just isn't there. A lot of players here are very soft and afraid of contact. Grimes played in a district made up of some of the most affluent parts and schools in Houston, and those kids are as soft physically as one would imagine.
It's not something that Self or Hudy can fix either. It has to be the players who decide they're no longer scared of contact before anything really changes with them.
FT's were the difference down the stretch. ASU shot 32 of then to KU's 16. There were also a couple of missed calls that went ASU's way late that had a huge impact as well. A missed travel on ASU when the were pulling closer and Grimes got fouled on the 3 that he air balled and the refs didn't call it.
The officiating in this game was horrendous, but ASU was the more aggressive team once Lawson picked up his 4th foul and KU couldn't adjust. Lawson is KU's offense and until KU gets develops a reliable second and third option, KU won't blow decent teams out, let alone good teams.
Dotson is getting closer to being that second option, but KU desperately needs Grimes to get going. I'll also tell everyone right now what his problem is. Texas HS basketball is garbage, especially the Houston area where Grimes came out of. The AAU scene sucks here so it's rare to see elite players come out of Texas ready to make a huge impact right out of the gate unless they leave the state to go to a prep school somewhere else that's more competitive.
Vick and Moore are also both very streaky players and are not reliable to get points every night. Garrett, like Grimes, is a product of the poor Texas HS scene.
McCormack just isn't ready yet to be anything more than a guy getting put backs as a means offense and Lightfoot is Lightfoot, he's in there for his defense.
KU needs Doke back and us really missing DeSousa because he could've been that consistent offensive threat off the bench KU needs.
Tech is going to give KU a lot of trouble this year. They are one of the best defensive teams I've see all season.
Time to empty the bench now.
I'd like to see Dave play a lot in the second half. This is a low risk game to get Dave some extended minutes. EMU between Christmas and New Year's is going to be the only other chance for that.
Dave is where T-Rob is as a freshman. He's going to be a beast of a player when the light comes on for him at some point.
wissox said:
If I had paid for a ticket for this game I'd ask for a refund. I don't want to go all negative nanny right now, but this is the #1 team in the country. This is quite pathetic.
They've won everything so far. It's a very different team than the last two. The last two teams were very experienced and played close to their ceiling very early on. This is a much younger and inexperienced team and still nowhere near their ceiling.
The defense has gotten vastly better since the start and I expect Self to work a lot on the offense in the next couple of weeks when KU will have a lot more practice time.
This team is winning and has beaten 3 currently ranked teams, all on neutral courts and all currently top 20 with 2 in the top 10 and will play a 4th top 20 team away from AFH Saturday.
If KU beats ASU Saturday, they'll be 4-0 against current top 20 teams and none of those wins will have been in AFH.
This isn't a team that's going to blow many teams out, but this is becoming a very good team very quickly.
KU does have a couple of good receivers coming back. Stephon Robinson was solid all year and Daylon Charlot came on strong the last couple of games to give himself some momentum going into next season. KU really only needs one more reliable receiver for next year to have a solid receiving group.
Charlie Moore is a reckless player a lot of times. Not surprising he would pick up that foul.
FarmerJayhawk said:
@jayballer73 not so fast. Les still hasn’t made the decision yet. Drake from CU still in the mix.
It is officially Drake Kwahn as the new DLine coach.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@mayjay https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jacob-walter-anderson-accused-of-drugging-and-raping-woman-fined-400-and-set-free_us_5c0fb9eae4b08bcb27ec996e ↗
I wasn't thinking about all those stinking rich frat boys! That's a whole new level!
The same week the girl who was traffick victim that murdered her captor gets 51 years.
I normally don't get into politics, but those two cases illustrate what white privilege in this country is about.
A civics class should be mandatory in middle school, high school, and college because there are too many people who don't know those basic things. It's something that should be common sense, but too many people are brought up in scenarios where they're taught differently or in environments where they see terrible things happening so they assume that's a normal thing.
@tundrahok Remedial classes can also be for nontraditional students who haven't been in a math or English class in awhile and need a refresher.
BShark said:
@jayballer73 Russell + Agbaw is the start of a toughhhhh secondary.
KU is going hard to flip Garber too.
That's not the start of one, that's the continuation of one. Co Harris was the start.
@JayHawkFanToo Gene Chizik won a national title and was fired 2 years later and hasn't gotten another head coaching job anywhere since then, yet Gill got another HC job after his tenure here.
@JayHawkFanToo I've read that article, I just don't put much stock into anything Whitlock has to say because he's been a really poor journalist for a very long time.
@JayHawkFanToo Turner Gill being black definitely impacted his candidacy at Auburn. As much as we want to think race is no longer an issue, the fact that rules like having to interview a minority candidate prove race is still an issue. There's still plenty of racism going on in Alabama today along with other places in the deep south. The reason Charlie Strong didn't get the Florida job when Urban Meyer left was because his wife is white and there's a lot of people, both black and white, who have issues with mixed race marriages in the deep south. No matter how much people want to downplay it, race is still a big issue when it comes to coaching jobs in the south.
Gene Chizik went 3-9 and then 2-10 in his two years at Iowa St. before Auburn hired him. Gene Chizik didn't get that job because of his resume as a head coach. He got that job because of the good ol' boys network. He was definitely not more qualified than Gill at that time to take over Auburn. Chizik was not a good coach and got lucky that a booster paid off Cam Newton's dad to bring Cam there.
Gill getting passed over at Nebraska isn't that telling about what they thought of his coaching ability. It says their administration knew their defense was shit at the time and they hired the defensive minded coach over the offensive minded coach because their offense wasn't in bad shape at the time. They hired the guy whose strengths were where Nebraska's weakness at the time was, simple as that. Had their offense been garbage and the defense still living up to the "Blackshirts" reputation, then Gill would've been hired over Pelini instead.
20-30 in a vacuum is not impressive for a 5 year stretch. However, go look at Buffalo's previous 7 years from when they moved up to the FBS prior to Gill taking over. That 7 year stretch for them was 0-11, 2-9, 3-8, 1-11, 1-11, 2-9, 1-10. 20-30 in 5 years is much better than 10-69 over 7 years. That 7 year stretch is one of the few that can give KU's current streak of futility a run for its money and Gill is the one who made that program competitive.
Gill was never given a fair chance at KU because people were still slobbering all over Mangino's junk because Mangino had one fluke season and couldn't back it up.
@JayHawkFanToo 20-30 at Buffalo at that time was very impressive. KU was not the only school highly interested in him at the time. Both Nebraska and Auburn were legitimately interested as well. Had Nebraska's defense been in better shape, it's like Gill would've taken over there instead of Pelini. There was definitely a racial element involved in Gill not getting the Auburn job.
Those 20 wins in 5 years were double what Buffalo had done in the previous 7 years since they had joined the FBS. That's not smoke and mirrors. Winning consecutive division championships is not smoke and mirrors either.
His system would've worked at KU had he been given his 5 years to get Mangino's players out of the program because those players were the issue at the time. Gill needed those players gone, but was too nice of person to kick them off the team like they needed to be. Those 3-4 years after Mangino were never going to be easy on KU football because had they gotten another hard ass coach, most of those players would've transferred out and KU would've been fighting the depth issues sooner.
@HighEliteMajor Gill's philosophy has always been about personal accountability which was the exact opposite of how Mangino ran the program. It went from one extreme to the other philosophy wise during that transition from Mangino to Gill and what happened wasn't unexpected. When people who are used to having a routine set for them whether it be tmgoing to HS to college, transitioning from the military or prison to civilian life, and a lot don't know how to properly adapt to that change without learning some hard lessons.
That's what was going on with Gill at that time. Players were learning life lessons about self accountability the hard way. Since most college football players will never sniff and NFL field, that's a life lesson they have to learn and so that's what Gill was preparing them for. It was always going to be a 3-4 year process for the culture change to happen and get to where KU could have been successful. Gill was letting those players learn that lesson the hard way.
Year 3 and the following offseason for Gill was going to be the most important part of his tenure had he gotten there. Those players who weren't handling their business in the classroom and were rumored to have eligibility issues included a lot of leaders on that team that had been a huge negative influence. Gill needed those younger players to see the consequences of not handling their business which was going to be year 3. That offseason between years 3 and 4 is when the negative influences were going to be gone and new leadership within the players was supposed to take over and change the toxic culture of Kansas football for the better.
I'm not going to say Gill was ever going to win B12 titles at KU, but given his full 5 years, I think he would've had KU bacj in a bowl game and in that 5-8 wins over year area that Mangino had KU in as well.
@HighEliteMajor Those issues you mention about conditioning was Mangino's players rebelling against Gill which I've said countless times was the core of every issue Gill was facing while coach. That was what Gill needed the most was time to get Mangino's players out of the program to establish his culture the way it's supposed to work.
What screwed Gill the most was losing to North Dakota St. in his first game. Hindsight says that wasn't a bad loss given the run the Bison have been on since 2010. People also forget Gill knocked off a top 15 Georgia Tech team the week after NDSU.
A lot of people also forget that 2011 class Gill put together was a great class by KU standards (34th nationally) and had his QB of the future in Michael Cummings. That class had a lot other players who would become big players for KU including Ben Heeney and Tony Pierson. There were also 7 Olinemen in that class.
I do believe year 3 would've been rough under Gill (2012), but I think years 4 and beyond would've seen the upward climb up the standings for Gill because those 2011 recruits would've been in year 3 and taking over that program from a leadership role.
Georgia Tech hired Temple HC Geoff Collins to fill their opening.
I will wait for the details of the incident to come out before passing judgment on Pooka. Best case scenario is he put himself into a bad spot and this is a teachable life lesson for him. Worst case is he's a footnote in KU football history as a one year wonder with off field issues.
@jayballer73 It would be ideal if the basketball team was at AFH, but this staff doesn't have the luxury of picking and choosing when potential recruits come in. They need to get as many recruits in ASAP to try and salvage this class as much as possible.
Dedric has never been a good deep shooter. He was around 30% in his 2 years at Memphis. Other than Vick, none of these players have a reputation for being able to make 3's and even Vick has always been a very streaky shooter and a consistent guy. When Vick isn't making 3's for several games in a row, it'll happen at some point this year, KU is going to have to get the ball into the paint and muscle ball it to the basket and live at the FT line.
If I'm an opposing coach, I pack the paint and only worry about Vick on the perimeter. I really wouldn't be worried about anyone else hurting me with perimeter shooting at this point and could live with myself is a 30% shooter has a hot night.
Looking at the top 25 scores tonight, Furman!?!?!? WTF, that's not someone I expected to see ranked ever. When was the last time a SoCon team was ranked? It's gotta be either Davidson when Steph Curry was there or College of Charleston back in the beginning of the century, right?
jayballer73 said:
well looks like Lindsey is already re-connecting with recruits.. -- Lindsey/KU - -has offered 2020 QB - - - Robby Ashford from Hoover Alabama -- has offers from Penn State - - -Georgia - - -Auburn - - & Mississippi State - -sounds like he already had a relationship with him while he was at Auburn -sounds like might be pretty good with those kinds of schools coming after him also. - - ROCK CHALK AL DAY LONG BABY
Hoover is an elite HS program that typically sends a lot of players to P5 programs.
Post game just said why Dave doesn't play more yet, he's still out of control too much to leave out there for long stretches. Once the game slows down for him, he'll be fine and see a major upswing in minutes.
In regards to Grimes, it was about this time of year the light came on for Kelly Oubre as well. Hopefully that's what this was for Grimes.
There's a Teahan in the game
Dedric Lawson = an upgraded Perry Ellis.
This is the team that was preseason #1. This is the best stretch this team has played all year.
I've been saying since summer this team would have times where they struggle on offense because they didn't have multiple 3 point threats. It allows the defense to pack the paint and make the team work harder to get a good look which they're not doing very well tonight. This team needs to passing around the perimeter and working the ball to the 3rd and even 4th side to get Dedric, Doke, and Dave good looks under the basket.
kjayhawks said:
@Woodrow Dedrics defense isn’t worth a crap
I don't remember him being this bad the rest of the year on defense. Not saying he's elite, but seems like he's been decent most of the year though.
Wofford is getting half their misses. They have 15 offensive boards and KU has 15 defensive boards.
DanR said:
Dedric is the rim protector. Ugh
Dedric is a good defender and rebounder. He won't block a ton of shots, but he'll make shots harder for people.
DanR said:
@BShark Doke does two things: 1) Dunks and 2) freaks out the opponents. Doesn't rebound, block shots, screen or play d
Doke has always been a very poor rebounder for his size.
approxinfinity said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 So who gets most of Doke's minutes? KJ? Garrett? Mitch?
Dave should see an uptick in minutes while Doke is out.
I wouldn't be shocked if Self kept it primarily a 4 guard look with Dedric the lone big until Doke gets back while mixing in some two big looks with Mitch and Dave rotating. I think Garrett would probably be the new starter on Saturday replacing Doke in the line up.