🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@JayHawkFanToo Mitch has future coach written all over him. You redshirt him so he can get a head start on his masters and when he's done at KU, he joins Self's staff as a GA and works his way up the coaching ladder from there.

@DoubleDD Here's the thing about redshirts, if Mitch redshirted this year and let's say Silvio gets ruled ineligible and Doke has a long lasting injury, Self could take the redshirt off Mitch and play him if needed.

If a player voluntarily redshirts under Self, it means Self has plans for them down the line like he did for Morningstar, Releford, Teahan, and Landen Lucas.

@DoubleDD There's nothing wrong with the idea of Mitch redshirting. This year's front court is going to be stacked, especially if Silvio plays. That would give KU 5 legitimate bigs and that means someone is not playing many minutes.

If that person ended up being Mitch, why wouldn't you redshirt him. When would he have more value, 2018-19 as the 5th big playing primarily garbage time next season or as a 5th year senior in 2020-2021 when he could be a legitimate starter for KU playing 25-30 minutes per game.

You're focusing on the small picture of the 2018-19 season impact of a potential Mitch redshirt, take a couple of steps back and look at how a move like that impacts KU long term.

KU is likely going to be an incredibly young team in 2020-2021 and having a 5th year senior like Mitch on that team would be a huge boost for a group of very young players because he is a great leader and could be a coach on the court type player.

@justanotherfan Perry Ellis was quiet as well, but he was still a leader when he was a junior and senior. There are different types of leadership that are effective, but when the lone senior on a team has zero interest in being any kind of leader, that's not a good thing and Vick has no interest in being any kind of leader which is why Self essential pushed him out of the program.

This supports what Self said earlier this offseason about Vick not wanting to step up and be a leader.

I would put some money on Nevada right now with their odds. That's going to be a really really good team next season.

@BeddieKU23 Lightfoot said he was 225 when he left campus for summer so he's in the 240 range now.

Vick does have baggage and it's not really a secret. Vick was the antagonist in the Josh Jackson/Mackenzie Calvert case. He was the one Calvert threw a drink on because he was being an a-hole to her after their breakup.

Bill Self explained that Vick had little to no interest in stepping up to be a leader on the team next year when he would have been the only senior.

There's definitely enough supporting evidence out there for people that want to argue that Vick was the team cancer last season and KU is better off without him being forced into a leadership role he has no interest in.

@jaybate-1.0 KU should also be a much better defensive team because other than Moore, KU is going to have good length this year. That's going to equal a lower shooting percentage from 3 for opponents. KU's 3 point defense wasn't horrible last year as opponents only made 33% of their 3 pointers against KU. I don't think it's unrealistic that KU holds opponents under 30% next season.

So while 3>2 is true, 3 at 33% loses against 2 at 50% every time. KU is probably going to have one of the best 2FG% in the country next season and with KU shaping up to be a very salty defensive team, I'll take KU 2 over opposing 3's next season.

@ReggieKansas Self basically kicked Vick off the team because Vick didn't want to step up and be a leader next season.

Vick ain't coming back to Kansas.

Since this is based on what teams look like on paper, KU quite frankly will be the best team on paper with or without DeSousa next season. Having DeSousa back just means that the front court next season would be in the conversation for best front court in recent college basketball history.

This ain't gonna be a team shooting many 3's next year. My one big concern on offense next year is with Doke's lack of ability outside of 5 feet, will that take away Grimes ability to drive the ball? If I'm an opposing coach, I'm telling whoever is guarding Doke to let him do whatever he wants outside of 5' including setting screens and just hang around the paint and take away drives.

Basically, I would double anything in the paint and let KU shoot jumpers all night long and take my chances with a team that on paper is not a great shooting team.

@jayballer73 The starting 3 will either be Garrett or Grimes. Depends on if Self starts Moore and Dotson or just Dotson.

jaybate 1.0 said:

Counterfeiting is NEVER perfect.

If it were there would never be originals.

But counterfeiting is never completely imperfect.

Otherwise there would be no counterfeiting.

You always have to have an original. If people could counterfeit perfectly, one of two things would happen. The original loses its value because it's no longer unique and rare. Or you only have originals and no counterfeits because everyone is creating their own thing.

I think it shows a huge amount of respect for KU. To lose 4, potentially all 5, starters and still be considered for the #1 ranking is a huge show of respect for the transfers KU has, for the recruits Self has brought in, and for Self himself.

@justanotherfan Again, I've seen Grimes play in person multiple times because I work 15 minutes from his school. Grimes is a top 5 freshman Self has brought in, but he's 3rd at best behind Jackson and Rush.

I also don't know that I can definitively say Grimes is better than Sherron Collins was at the same point.

@justanotherfan As good as Grimes is, and I saw him in person a couple of times this past season, he's not better than Josh Jackson or Brandon Rush. Those are the two best players Self has recruited to KU.

I'm selfishly disappointed, I wanted this year's game to be in Reed Arena so I could make the hour drive up to College Station for the game.

Beating Kentucky again is a nice consolation prize to watch I guess.

@HighEliteMajor The timing isn't odd at all. Girod recently met with the high value donors in Arizona. They likely withdrew financial support of the stadium project unless changes were made. Since Girod said there was already a search committee in place, that means he likely started assembling that committee shortly after the donors meeting.

That's the why on the timing. The lack of progress is likely specifically referring to the fundraising of the stadium project.

@kjayhawks Schneider has had way too much turnover and instability on his roster to ever have consistent success. He's 6-48 in Big 12 games that cast majority of those losses have not been the least bit competitive.

Ritch Price has been here 16 years and has 3 NCAA tournament appearances and has missed the B12 tournament 7 or 8 times I believe.

Softball has regressed from a few years ago when KU was safely making the NCAA tournament.

I think Price's contract is near its end so firing him shouldn't be a concern.

Glad it finally happened. Sounds like Girod has already started looking for Zenger's replacement even before he fired Zenger. I think Girod gave Zenger the courtesy of finishing put the academic year before pulling the trigger.

I also don't see Beaty being fired immediately either because there aren't any quality coaches available around Memorial Day. I would expect a new AD to be hired in late June or in July and that Beaty will start the year as football coach, but won't make it to the end of the season. KU has a bye week halfway through the season, I would expect Beaty to be fired after 6 games unless there is significant on field improvement and in the W-L column. That'll give the new AD ample time to identify and hire a quality coach for 2019.

Other coaches that need to go are Brandon Schneider, Ritch Price, and the softball coach because those 3 programs have been really bad either since Zenger got here, or significantly regressed since he got here.

@JayHawkFanToo ESPN paid the B12 $10 million extra over the remainder of the contract to eliminate that clause. Fox didn't do anything because they knew the B12 didn't have the guts to follow through because of the fear of what would happen next go around.

@dylans Don't know where you're pulling doom and gloom and me not being happy about the reality that the Alamo Bowl outdraws a Duke/UNC basketball game from, but if making baseless accusations floats your boat, then have it.

@dylans Most 3rd tier bowl games draw bigger TV ratings than any regular season college basketball game.

Most people don't pay any attention to college basketball until March and because of that, TV deals for college basketball don't even live in the same neighborhood as football TV contracts.

@dylans You do know that 1/8 of the entire U.S. population lives in California right?

Did you also know that 7 of the top 25 biggest media markets are in P12 country and only 3 of those are in California?

I think it's more that you don't give a crap about the west coast as opposed to the rest of the country because the evidence sure doesn't back up your statements.

@dylans So Washington didn't make the CFP in 2016? I just imagined that one?

The P12 has had 2 different teams make the CFP just like every other P5 conference except the B12.

@HighEliteMajor This article and several others like this explain why ESPN and Fox were angry with the B12 for looking into expansion.

https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/espn-and-fox-angry-with-big-12-expansion-080116/ ↗

Reading that, it should be pretty clear why ESPN and Fox want the B12 dead. Basically, ESPN and Fox don't want to own up to a bad deal they made with the B12 and are using their power to say they won't even renegotiate with the B12 if they expand. The B12 could've expanded 2 years ago and told the networks to pay up, but that wasn't a legal battle they wanted to get into so despite being able to, the weakness of B12 leadership has prevented the B12 from doing so.

A strong B12 leader would've looked at the upgraded that UH and Cincy have done recently to their facilities (football stadiums in particular) and told ESPN and Fox to "watch this" as they build UH into an 8-9 win B12 team and occasional title contended like OSU is and made Cincy a regular 6-7 win team and made those programs worth the money that ESPN and Fox would be paying them by the end of the deal.

@dylans Basketball has very little to do with conference realignment. It's still a football driven decision and the PAC 12 is in much better shape in football than the Big 12 is.

The College Football Playoff is the biggest moneymaker in college athletics for the networks and ESPN and Fox have committed themselves to that.

P12 and B12 basketball will not impact those negotiations when they happen in a few years.

The biggest issues for both the P12 and B12 in football right now is that their marquee programs are not title contenders right now. The B12 has been on a downward slide since 2009 when Texas lost to Alabama and the league hasn't recovered since then. The P12 has struggled ever since USC went on the decline. In college football, you have to have your marquee programs in contention every year. The SEC was down when Alabama was struggle big time in the late 90's and early 2000's. It wasn't until they started to rebuild that the SEC went on their title run. The ACC was thought of as an afterthought while FSU was down. If FSU doesn't recover like last year, the rest of the league including Clemson will regress.

Don't forget that during the last go around, the ACC was a league that many thought wouldn't survive and it was because FSU was not in a good place at the time. They've recovered and the ACC is now neck and neck with the SEC as far as the best overall conference goes.

Back to the B12 and P12, USC is working their way back into title contenders which if they do that before Texas, the P12 will survive and the B12 will be the one to bite the dust.

@kjayhawks The Big 12 won't survive because ESPN and Fox don't want it to survive. The networks made that very clear when they denied the Big 12 adding teams by telling the Big 12 they wouldn't amend the current TV deal.

What's going to happen is the Big 12 will get absorbed into the other P5 conferences after the current TV deal is up. Then when the current CFP deal is up a couple of years later, they will expand the CFP to 8 teams which will be a much cleaner thing to do with only 4 major conferences.

The Big 12's only real hope of surviving beyond the current TV deal would be if NBC came calling and offered a contract that allowed for the Big 12 to expand to 12 or beyond.

10 is the easiest number scheduling wise, but with all the other P5 conferences having 12+ teams, 10 teams doesn't equal survival.

Based on what Fox and ESPN told the Big 12 about expansion last summer, it's not going to happen.

Should those networks ever reverse their minds, I would still argue the Houston and Cincinnati have to be the top two options.

I've lived in Houston for 25 years, and the Big 12 is an afterthought in football recruiting at this point in Houston. Almost all of the elite recruits go to SEC schools at this point. Getting UH into the Big 12 opens up Houston recruits to the Big 12.

Having Tom Hermann at UT should help, it having UH in the Big 12 would help more.

I know most don't want another Texas school in the Big 12, but Houston is legitimately the best realistic addition the Big 12 could get.

@JayHawkFanToo The FBI is not investigating specific schools. They started their investigation of the Adidas AAU circuit last summer, announced their findings in August shortly after the AAU season was done.

They were looking for connections between agents/runners and coaches/players. They have never announced anything about a specific school paying players. They have found agents financially influencing players to certain schools and coaches taking money to influence players as well.

This upcoming summer is when they will get to the meat of their EYBL investigation and we will likely here more in August/September about what kind of stuff is going on within the Nike ranks.

Also, Adidas didn't pay Under Armour for DeSousa, they outbid Under Armour for him. That's why he flipped, not because Adidas paid UA off.

HighEliteMajor said:

@jayballer73 To your response, this is crazy. Like with many things we hear that people do, it is simply unreal to consider the lack of foresight, thoughtfulness, and common sense.

Did Zenger know?

At this point, does it matter? There's been enough incidents that are shining a negative light at KU under Zenger's watch that indicate one of two things. He's either complacent in taking action or he's too ignorant of what's going on to effectively run the department.

This isn't even factoring in the Adidas investigation or the incredibly poor performance of most of the athletic programs at KU under Zenger.

@JayHawkFanToo The FBI is currently investigating the EYBL circuit. Nike schools are going to get theirs as well.

Sounds like KU is trying to join the club with Baylor and Michigan State.

Girod needs to clean house in the athletic department. This is not a good path KU is headed down right now.

Based on what else KU will have next season, I don't think KU needs Garrett to carry the scoring load. Let him focus on his defense and become a NDPOY, or at least B12DPOY level of defender. I'm fine if never progresses beyond a 35% outside shooter as long as the defense is there.

I think the scoring leaders next year in order will be D. Lawson, Grimes, Dotson, KJ Lawson, and then Garrett.

JayHawkFanToo said:

So...unless KU gets a senior transfer, no senior night? When is the last time that happened?

Pretty sure it was 2009.

@HighEliteMajor I don't think Doke can but at this point, I don't think Doke should come back either though. Playing next to Dedric would only further expose Doke's weaknesses and hurt his draft stock more.

Wayne Selden needs to be his role model at this point. Left early knowing he would go undrafted, but still at the peak of his draft stock. Then he went on and made a team and has become a key piece for the Grizzlies.

Doke needs to stay in the draft, know he's not likely to be drafted and hope he can make a team during the Summer League.

Doke's draft stock will not be higher than it is right now which is unfortunate because Doke would likely have been a top 5 pick 15 years ago.

@HighEliteMajor Doke is a much less complete player than Thomas Robinson was when he left and T-Rob couldn't stick. Doke right now would go undrafted and would struggle to make a roster in Summer League because he can't rebound for his size or guard away from the basket.

He has to do both those things much better than he currently does to have any shot at sticking in the league.

@justanotherfan Schools don't pay for basketball players because most basketball programs already operate in the red.

Schools are going to be connected to football players through boosters.

I actually like this line up better. I think there's a lot more flexibility without Doke in the middle. KJ and Mitch as stretch 4's with Dedric and McCormack in the low post isn't bad. Dedric is also someone capable of making some shots on the perimeter.

@Fightsongwriter He already announced for Indiana.

@Woodrow It doesn't matter what anyone else says about Beaty, former player or not, when you keep changing your vision of what you want the program to be, keep reassigning coaching duties, and abandon your recruiting strategy, it's going to lead to failure.

The longer David Beaty remains head coach, the longer it will take KU to begin an actual rebuild.

Dorrance was drafted by the Dallas Cowboys in 4th round today.

@Kcmatt7 I'm not holding one game against him, I'm holding the season against him. Just about anytime KU struggled, it was because a team got Doke away from the basket and exploited that match up. That also made Doke much less effective on offense because his stamina still isn't great.

In order to win a national title, which is still the goal every season, KU would have to figure out a way to beat teams with athletic 5's who could take Doke away from the basket and guard on the perimeter which he has yet to show an ability to do.

You're trying to turn this into a debate about Doke's talent which I'm not questioning. I'm questioning how well that skill set meshes with what KU has next year and I don't see his skill set meshing as well with a lot of new faces next year as it did with last season's group.

@Kcmatt7 Being a good player doesn't equal being a good fit. Isaiah Thomas with the Cavs was a terrible fit for that team, but he's still a very good player.

Doke is a good player, but his skillset doesn't mesh well with the current game of basketball. Get him more than 5 feet from the basket on either end of the floor and he's pretty useless.

It's not about talent level in this case because Doke is a very talented player, it's more about how well his style of play meshes with the current style of play.

His lack of rebounding ability also leaves a lot to be desired and Dedric is a far superior rebounder than Doke is.

kjayhawks said:

I don’t wanna be preseason number 1, seldom does that team win anything in March. What happens with Doke with play a big hand IMO on how good we can be, the high low with him and Dedric could be pretty salty. Experience is what really worries me a bit, I know the Lawson boys and Moore have some D1 experience but they’ve never played in the NCAA tournament. You also never know how freshman will play at this level regardless of the number by their name. @KUSTEVE I really hope this team can guard, I have been unimpressed with our defense or lack of the last 4 or 5 seasons.

KU might honestly be better off without Doke from a style of play standpoint. A KU line up with KJ and Mitch manning the 4 spot gives KU a pair of stretch 4's that match up better than Dedric guarding on the perimeter.

justanotherfan said:

Beaty changing directions on recruiting is a big indictment to me. Signing HS kids that you can build around gives hope for the future. Signing a bunch of quick fix hopes from JUCO is a bad path. That's what put KU in this hole to begin with from Weis, who remains the worst hire in the history of the program (saying something when Terry Allen exists). This is heading in a bad direction. I've tried to remain optimistic, but this story probably won't end well.

I don't even know if I could put Terry Allen in the bottom 5 considering our last 3 coaches plus Bob Valesente have all coached here. Allen might be 5th, but there's probably worse out there in KU's history at some point considering KU's history.

@Woodrow It does not take more than 5 years to restock a roster in college football when the man in charge is competent. 5 years is a full recruiting cycle so there's no reason it should take longer than that to have a full roster again.

Nicholls St. made the FCS playoffs last season and return a lot of their team. That's not a gimme game. KU hasn't won a road game since 2009 so CMU is not a gimme game. Rutgers is still a B10 program that beat the crap out of KU a couple of years ago, not a gimme game.

It's a very real possibility that KU could be a home underdog to an FCS team next season.

Name another job in the world where being successful 9% of the time is good and deserving of doubling your salary and getting an extension?

David Beaty is never going to succeed at KU because he can't make up his mind about what he wants the program to look like. Inconsistencies in his coaching staff because the amount of turnover and Beaty changing job responsibilities every year has done nothing to help KU. Programs need consistency to improve and KU has had none of that under Beaty in 4 years. The time to end this experiment was Novemver but the AD can't fire Beaty because it means he's gone as well because AD's don't get 3rd chances at hiring football coaches.

David Beaty is the poster child for how not to build a program.

@Woodrow So he's claiming it's going to take 8 years to get back to normal? 5 is the maximum it should take.

I've defended Beaty longer than most people have, but he needs to go. He's never going to get the job done here because he's abandoned his plan in recruiting and he's abandoned his goals for the offense. This team has no identity because Veaty keeps changing what he wants to do every season.

0-12 is a possibility next season. We already don't have enough OLinemen to play a spring game so even with reinforcements coming in the summer, the depth isn't there.

Changes need to happen because Zenger has no clue what he's doing on the administrative side of the job and Beaty has no clue what he's doing leading the football program.

@Woodrow KU went cheap with the last hire and they got what they paid for. There's been minimal, if any progress made. KU has to pay Beaty $3 million to go away, that's it. When he was hired, KU was still paying off Weis an absurd amount of money. Right now, KU can afford a buyout at a Group of 5 school and give that coach $3 million per year.

In any walk of life, quality doesn't come cheap and KU went cheap with Beaty and are now regretting it deeply.

Even if Doke stays in the draft and DeSousa can't play next year, KU would still be fine in the frontcourt. All it does is make KU go back to the 2016 and 2017 versions where Self used a stretch 4. This version would have Lightfoot and KJ Lawson as the stretch 4's with Dedric and McCormack as the low post options.

Maybe not what we thought the frontcourt would be, but that's still a pretty solid frontcourt in a worst case scenario.