@Woodrow $3 million per year would be 7th in the Big 12. A P5 coordinator or Group of 5 HC could absolutely be worth $3 million per year to KU. If KU wants a quality up and coming coach, they will have to pay a premium because of their past decade.
Texas Hawk 10
9941 posts
@Woodrow If the right candidate comes along, $3 million is not an issue.
Also, KU is not at 65 scholarships, they're somewhere in the mid 70's right now.
In order for Beaty to keep his job, he needs to get to a bowl game.
Doke should test the waters so he can get some feedback. Ultimately, he needs another year though. He needs to be able to make a shot from beyond 5 feet and he needs to improve his rebounding quite a bit. Only 20% defensive rebounding and 15% overall is bad for a player his size.
JayHawkFanToo said:
Two completely different levels of recruiting. Illinois recruits or tries to recruit top tier, i.e. 3-5 Star players where KSU goes after middle level tier, i.e. 1-3 Star players and they migh now be able to go after fringe 4 Star players.
And you just completely missed the point. The point had nothing to do with the caliber of recruits. Weber has taken teams to the E8 and deeper before and never saw a meaningful
spike in recruiting so why would he now? That has always been his weakness. He's a great X's and O's coach, but the man can't recruit talent to level he should get. Huggy and Martin showed you can bring in top level talent to KSU, Weber just sucks at recruiting.
@JayHawkFanToo Weber took Illinois to the title game and saw minimal spike, if any, in recruiting from that. Illinois is in a much better spot to recruit than KSU is. Situated pretty close to both Chicago and St. Louis, that is a program that should never hurt for talent, but Weber did and Illinois slid into irrelevance where they remain today.
FarmerJayhawk said:
@BShark shot selection. If Dedric plays within the flow of the offense he can shoot a good percentage, a la Perry or the Morii.
If it's the high-low, Dedric could easily see quite a few open looks from the top of the key. That also means when teams adjust, Doke should have a lot of 1 on 1's deep in the paint as well.
If Dedric hits 35% or better, the high-low will be back in full force and very fun to watch between Dedric and Doke.
Fightsongwriter said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 You missed the point entirely; however @HighEliteMajor did not. I never equated him with Keith "the scoring machine" Langford. I did suggest he would be a great source to help Vick navigate foreign waters, because LaCobra will not be earning a penny on US soil unless it's G League.
Langford would still be a bad choice because Vick isn't going to play in top leagues like Langford did. Vick would need to find a mentor that's been around the lower divisions because that's where Vick's future is in Europe.
Based on Self's comments about Vick, I really don't see Vick having much of a future in basketball anywhere unless Vick has a major shift in attitude.
KUSTEVE said:
@jaybate-1.0 He's cut from different cloth. You can throw the normal reactions away with Mitch- he is all about KU winning above his own personal aspirations. He is the epitome of team first. He won't want to leave after he graduates.
I'm going to call it now, Mitch Lightfoot will be the head coach at Kansas at some point in the future.
@jaybate-1.0 Mitch is a born and bred Jayhawk. He bleeds crimson and blue and isn't leaving. He came to Kansas knowing being buried on the bench most of his career was a possibility.
@Fightsongwriter Vick is not Keith Langford. Langford was playing for top division teams and occasionally inquired about by NBA teams. Vick will end with 2nd and 3rd tier teams in Europe.
@approxinfinity On paper, next season's front court is deeper than that one. Mitch Lightfoot could legitimately end up the 6th big man next season. I don't think Self has ever had that kind of depth before.
@Blown Vick was at the center of the incident with Josh Jackson and Mackenzie Calvert last year. That's by far his most high profile incident, but I've rumors of several other smaller incidents involving Vick as well.
The Vick situation feels very similar to the Brannen Greene and Naadir Tharpe situations of a player being forced out, but not publicly being thrown under the bus. It feels like Self is allowing Vick to figure out his next move and allowing Vick to announce to save face for Vick.
With Vick's lack of maturity apparently coming through with his lack of leadership and lack of even wanting to be leader combined with him being the only senior next year had he stayed was something troublesome brewing.
Doke absolutely needs to stay, his skillset does not fit with the current NBA. Extending his range is something Doke needs to do on his own this summer to help his draft stock out. We wouldn't see it in games because of the high-low next year that should be returning, but scouts could still him extend his range in practice or pregame warm ups.
Vacated or not, Louisville's 2013 title came as a member of the AAC, so the AAC unofficially has 2 national titles.
nuleafjhawk said:
NFW we lose 8 or 9 out of 10. I don't have crimson & blue glasses, but we're better than that. Maybe 50/50. If you don't believe me, set up a 10 game series.
It wouldn't be 50-50. I know we've played Villanova at least 5 times under Self. KU is 1-4 in those games that I remember. They smoked KU by 20+ in 2006-07, KU beat Nova in the 2008 tournament, Nova beat KU in the Bahamas, 2016 Elite 8, and last Saturday. Villanova has never been a good match up for Self.
@FarmerJayhawk Newman is going to be the first Jayhawk drafted most likely. He could be a late 1st rounder too according to some mocks now.
Svi is intriguing as an NBA prospect because he's still only 20 years old and would be 21 when the draft happens. That's still young enough to be a potential late 1st round draft and stash player. I really wouldn't be too shocked if Graham ended up being the 3rd KU player taken in the draft this year.
@Lulufulu There's nobody worthy of the KU job right now with KU ties that hasn't already coached here previously outside of John Calipari.
Calipari is the only coach out there with KU ties that wins at a clip high enough to be considered for the job. Gregg Popovich of the Spurs is the only coach with KU ties that I would take right now.
Neither Cal, nor Pop are coming to KU which means there's not a realistic candidate worthy of the KU job with KU ties right now.
jaybate 1.0 said:
Itâs a good question and I will be serious.
Most offensive action is now run from two feet beyond the trey line to the baseline. Thus, less than half of half court is having to be defended. And even now defenses are camping on the three point line more and more.
This is what we are used to: running actions in the lesser, closer-to-the-basket half of half court.
Nova tries to penetrate to two point range to collapse defenses to kick out to open treys. Or ball screens outside at the 3point stripe so itâs shooter can step back to 22-28 to get the unblockable look. There are almost no passes into the post for b2b play. Driving is the preferred means of collapse.
In a 100% 3PTA offense, the entire half court would be used to run actions to get open looks in an 8, or 6, or 4, foot swath beyond the trey stripe, depending on the skill of your 3 point shooters.
Contraction of defense and stretching of defenses will no longer be in relation to the basket, but in relation to the swath.
Some offenses would start with players on both sides of the swath with a trey shooting post man in the swath. Players would cut in and out of the swath. Screening and ball screening would occur. Others possessions offenses would begin with weaving starting at the mid court line and weaving into the swath. Other possessions the ball would be worked to say the low blocks and the ball would be weaved outward to the swath.
All past offenses would be adapted over time to generate open looks âin the swathâ, instead of âin the paintâ, or âat the stripeâ and new offenses would be devised to do the same.
Every defender would be camping in the swath same as every defender used to camp âaround the laneâ before the 3 pt shot and âalong the trey stripeâ after it, when coaches were still trying to balance 2 and 3 point scoring.
Shots can be created any where on a basketball floor regardless of whether players are camping here, or there, or elsewhere.
Defenses will be devised to guard âthe swath.â
Offenses will be devised to create open looks in the swath. Where the shots are created will depend on the skills of the shooters.
The kind of athleticism required to play swath-centric will change from what they are today, same as the kind of athleticism changed from the 1950s to the 1980s and thenfrom the 1980s to now.
Look at the KU-Nova game and the UM-Nova game. Novaâs muscular, hooking defense and 3 point shooting completely obsoleted the âathleticismâ and âgo get a basketâ abilities of KU and UM.
We saw the same obsolescence occur when the jump shot, great leaders and highly mobile footers entered the game. The horizontal set shooting of fences and players were obsoleted.
Jay Wright has not just built a great team. He has obsoleted playground descended basketball of the kind played airborne and exploding for one on one plays. The playground shaped modern game is now as obsolete as the horizontal set shooting game became before it.
Now the great players and teams will increasingly be those that have the kind of athleticism and shooting range to get open looks in the swath.
Itâs all about the swath, not the trey stripe, or the paint.
Here's how I would defend you proposed offense of 100% 3 point attempts. A defender where the wong and sideline meet to take away the base shots since there isn't much room there, then I zone the other 3 players from wing to wing and force the offense into shots from beyond 25' which are extremely low % shots. The offense would effectively be operating in just 1/3 of the half court which makes spacing an issue.
If players go inside the 3 point line, I wouldn't care because the goal is still to take a 3 pointer no matter what in your proposed offense. It's just not a sound offensive strategy to me.
@BShark Weber has always had players transfer out, even at Illinois. And the players he's run off at KSU were some pretty good players like Marcus Foster.
@jaybate-1.0 Doke shot 77% from the field this year. Over 100 shot, that's 154 points not including any FT's he would make so we could assume his number would could assume that number to be higher.
In order to reach that 154 mark from 3 point shooting, a shooter would have to make 52% of their 3 point attempts.
Shooting all 3's just isn't a smart or feasible strategy because of the percentage a team would have to shoot over the course of a season to make it an effective strategy.
@jaybate-1-0 Let me ask you a serious question about your opinion that KU should shoot 3's every possession.
How long would it take a team to realize this strategy and camp out with all 5 defenders on the 3 point line and force KU into shooting 25'-30' shots where the % is probably at or under 30% in a best case scenario. Over 100 shots, that's 90 points or less.
I just don't see it ever being a feasible strategy that would win many games because it would be too easy to defend.
@BShark KSU has also had a lot of players transfer out under Weber. I would wait and see about their transfers before anointing them a top 25 team.
HighEliteMajor said:
@justanotherfan No, I agree totally. I had no real issue with our offensive gameplan
You said KU had the right gameplan. My point was that given Nova's 40 threes, it wasn't the right gameplan. I stated that "they did not have the right gameplan if Nova was shooting 40 three pointers."
Thus my initial point in this thread about our lower volume of threes being an important reason "in hindsight" as to why we didn't win.
I don't think Nova planned on 40 three pointers. I do think they planned on a high volume though. It would make sense given their team construct, and our strengths.
From a scheme standpoint, I'm puzzled by our passivity at defending the three point light, particularly once the "solarflare" you mentioned was evident.
Villanova always plans to shoot a high volume of 3's. KU's help defense was obviously an issue from the beginning because it runs counter to what Nova does so I'm not gonna harp on that because we all know ignoring the defensive scouting report was the reason KU got smoked.
KU's offensive gameplan was a good one had they stuck with it. Pounding it in to Doke early would force Nova to either start doubling Doke leaving a capable 3 point shooter wide open, or they man up on Doke and Doke keeps abusing the rim. That was the match up advantage KU had against Nova and exploiting that match up to open up other parts of the offense was the right game plan on offense. After Nova hit KU in the nose though, KU completely abandoned that game plan along with any chance of winning.
I know this is going to sound harsh, but this loss is on Devonte to me. I was in the Alamodome Saturday night and Self was pissed the entire game. We almost never see Self use 2 timeouts in the first half and he used 2 in the first 8 minutes or so trying to get KU to execute their gameplan. At that point, it's on the players to execute and they didn't do it. Since Graham is the leader, that's his responsibility to run the sets they needed to on offense.
Also, does this mean Villanova are the real Big 12 champs this year? They beat the top 3 teams in the Big 12 3 straight games from the Sweet 16 through at night.
KU's body language was terrible after Doke missed his second shot.
The effort went way downhill as well. I didn't think the initial gameplan of playing through Doke was a bad strategy to open with. After Nova started making 3's, KU started with Iso-ball and were sharing the ball and quit running their offense. KU ended up with 8 assists for the game.
And Nova just hit another 3.
kuballin10 said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 feel free to point out their dribble weave and pound it inside to their big guy....thatâs all we run so not sure what game youâre watching. Weâve never ran 4 flat except end of half threes and we donât even come close to mimicking them with our sets. Just playing 4 guards is mimicking them
It's a 4 guard offense tailored to our personnel. Jay Wright has run a 4 guard offense for most of his tenure at Nova including just about every variation of it. There's nothing KU can run in their 4 guard offense Nova hasn't run in the past.
I want to know how the football team traded places with the basketball team.
StLJhawk said:
Not so much on our guys or coach imho - bad guys are just all shooting record breaking lights out all night, hard to guard 7 hot trey shooters
KU isn't guarding them though, this is just a shootaround for Nova's players.
kjayhawks said:
Jay Wright is a better coach than Bill Self.
We're running a version of Nova's offense. They're the best 4 guard system in the country and showing why tonight.
kuballin10 said:
Bill copy jay Wrightâs offense please
Or we could try this new invention called defense, I hear that's pretty good at keeping teams from scoring.
This should be the fuel for everyone to come back next year that can and destroy everyone.
This isn't even an issue of Self getting outcoached tonight. KU just flat out no showed and their body language has been terrible all night
This is painful right now, Nova isn't missing anything this half. Need some kind of junk defense to at least get the deficit to single digits before half.
@kjayhawks Wagner already has a double-double. Since I'm sitting among mostly Loyola fans, let Michigan keep wasting that match up. Go Ramblers!
DanR said:
I hope we shoot better than Michigan and Loyola (and villanova). This is awful
These are two of the slowest teams in D1 tempo wise. KU is the only team in the top 50 of tempo so if we can get an up tempo pace going, that bodes well for Kansas.
Don't even care if I'm in the Loyola section, holy crap this is awesome being here!
I'll be there, but doubtful my seats are anywhere near where yours will be. I'm also only going for the Saturday games because I can't take Monday and Tuesday off of work. Had to buy them off of a 3rd party site, but only ended paying about $225 a ticket for the Saturday games when they were peaking at around $300 on Stubhub.
Also was able to secure a hotel north of the airport for about $125 when I bought my ticket. Houston is a little too far for me to make safely after the game Saturday night.
I hope Doke and and Silvio each posterize someone on Saturday night!
I will hopefully be driving over to San Antonio tomorrow afternoon. I already have my ticket for the game on Saturday so I'm insanely excited about that and got a hotel room in San Antonio for under $150.
If only that had been Allen taking that blocking foul, that would've been sweet!
If they drive, it'll be to get Doke and Silvio in foul trouble and force Mitch into the game. That would be a nightmare scenario for KU. I'm honestly not that worried about our guards getting in foul trouble.
KU will headline the 2019 Maui along with Michigan State and UCLA. Other teams in the field will include Chaminade, BYU, Dayton, Georgia, and Virginia Tech. Looks like it should be pretty stacked Maui.
BShark said:
Good stuff from Jay Wright here.
I'm excited for the Graham/Brunson match up. These are the 2 best PG's in the country and should be the ones splitting the NPOY awards this year.
Bosthawk said:
True - funny how things can turn out (especially when you have a great coach )
Wonder whatâs going thru Colby and Whitmanâs head right now.. what they could have been part of and contributed towards especially with the Preston sadness.
I don't blame Coleby at all for his decision. He was projected as the 3rd big at best behind Doke and Preston. Had he known what was going to happen to the roster, I'm guessing he would've stayed here.
@JayHawkFanToo OU didn't have a lot of talent around Young. That was largely the same core of players who finished 9th in the Big 12 in 2017.
@JayHawkFanToo Haase hasn't done enough at Stanford and appears to regressing, Tad Boyle and Mark Turgeon have been a major programs long enough now without elevating them that I wouldn't trust either at KU. Rex Walters failed at a low major so why would he be worthy.
Dooley hasn't been a head coach long enough to ruin his chances, he just needs to show that he can be successful at a higher level first and he should have plenty of opportunities this off-season to move up to a higher level program.
@JayHawkFanToo That's why I said in my initial post that I want to see Dooley at a higher level before KU. but he's the only guy with KU ties right now I think I would even consider in a few years, but that's dependent upon him doing well at a better program as well.
HighEliteMajor said:
@Bosthawk The Silvio decision, and getting him eligible, saved this season. Period.
Newman the best transfer ever? I'm struggling to come up with another name. This is where Self's management is masterful. Think about where we were two months ago? Have to give Malik complete credit two. Buying in when your basketball DNA is somewhat counter the flow is impressive.
Only other player I could think of in the neighborhood is Witney because we don't reach the 2012 title game without his rim protection.