This is exactly what I thought should happen. UT make the decision based on the findings of the police investigation, regardless of where this goes legally because of what his girlfriend is doing right now trying not those her meal ticket.
Texas Hawk 10
9941 posts
@wissox said in Bill Self the GOAT:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Wow, that's an interesting list. It goes without saying that we hit the jackpot. Of course it's all speculation, but we dodged some bullets for sure. Wasn't Doherty a failure at UNC? Turgeon, wow... Mark Few may have found similar success here, he's pretty solid. But Calipari? Oh my, I didn't like that guy even at that time, always thought he was kind of sleazy.
@wissox said in Bill Self the GOAT:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Wow, that's an interesting list. It goes without saying that we hit the jackpot. Of course it's all speculation, but we dodged some bullets for sure. Wasn't Doherty a failure at UNC? Turgeon, wow... Mark Few may have found similar success here, he's pretty solid. But Calipari? Oh my, I didn't like that guy even at that time, always thought he was kind of sleazy.
That was just a poll KUSports created at the time to gauge interest. I don't know how deep the search actually got because Self was the top candidate.
@wissox said in Bill Self the GOAT:
Patrick Beverly, Anthony Davis, Robert Covington, Terrance Shannon, are some other names from Chicago that pop up into my mind. @DanR It's just fun to speculate on who might have gone where had things been different.
Of course if Self stays at U of I, who would KU have hired instead? I don't remember the names being thrown about back then. Would Brad Stevens have been on their radar? Jay Wright? Matt Painter? He was definitely a coach with some upside in 2003 making a name at SIU. Would they have considered Tim Floyd? Bo Ryan? Thad Matta? I'm thinking we got the best man available and it's not even close.
So looking back at KUSports coverage from the time, Self was always the top choice to replace Roy. But, they did have a poll of who could've replaced Roy and there's some names that may have flopped here. The list was Self, Mark Few, Mark Turgeon who was at Wichita St. at the time (and had a career losing record at that point and no NCAA Tournament appearances yet), Matt Doherty (who Roy replaced at UNC), Steve Robinson (who was a KU assistant at the time), Larry Brown (76ers coach at the time), Joe Holladay (another KU assistant at the time), Tom Crean (had just lead Dwayne Wade and Marquette to the Final Four), John Calipari (completed 3rd season at Memphis and coming off of first NCAA Tournament at Memphis), Mike Brey (completed 3rd season at Notre Dame amd had made 5 NCAA Tournaments in 8 years as a head coach at that point), Tim Floyd (out of basketball at that point after being fored by the Bulls after the 2001 season), and Kevin Pritchard (spent two seasons with KC Knights of the ABA).
@wissox said in Bill Self the GOAT:
Patrick Beverly, Anthony Davis, Robert Covington, Terrance Shannon, are some other names from Chicago that pop up into my mind. @DanR It's just fun to speculate on who might have gone where had things been different.
Of course if Self stays at U of I, who would KU have hired instead? I don't remember the names being thrown about back then. Would Brad Stevens have been on their radar? Jay Wright? Matt Painter? He was definitely a coach with some upside in 2003 making a name at SIU. Would they have considered Tim Floyd? Bo Ryan? Thad Matta? I'm thinking we got the best man available and it's not even close.
I know Tom Izzo has mentioned the KU job in the past as one of the few he would've left MSU for so that'd be another name that could've replaced Roy.
@DanR said in Bill Self the GOAT:
@wissox said in Bill Self the GOAT:
@DanR Illinois' near national championship team was nearly all Illinois kids. Deron Williams the one exception.
You don't have to go too far south from Chicago to get into some serious racist ass-backward country. I grew up in west central Illinois.
Dee Brown was the only significant guy Self brought to that F4 team. I was just saying that Rose, Parker and Okafor weren't interested in playing for Self anywhere. He probably had a better shot at those guys at KU than at UofI. Maybe if Self had a couple natties by the time Parker and Okafor were old enough they would have thought about it, but we got Cliff Alexander instead of Okafor.
As for KU:
Sheron Collins, Jamari Traylor (my favorite) and Cliff Alexander... probably a few others... Mario Little...?
Julian Wright, Sherron Collins, Mario Little, Elijah Johnson, Jamari Traylor, Cliff Alexander, and Devon Dotson are the Self recruits to KU originally from the Chicago area. Elijah Johnson is Gary, IN right across the border and Dotson grew up there before moving to Charlotte.
Chicago is a big enough market that Self wouldn't have landed every high profile Chicago kid at Illinois every year, but I think he'd have kept the relationships with AAU and HS coaches good enough to not have the issues that Weber largely brought on himself there with recruiting. I don't think Self would've landed Rose because of the AAU politics and Rose being an Adidas guy, and I don't think he'd have landed Jabari Parker or Okafor over Coach K at that point because I don't know if Nike would've funneled those guys to Illinois at that point, probably a lot of that would've depending on how much Self had won in the NCAA Tournament by that point.
I do think Self would've cleaned up the non-OAD Chicago area guys though amd gotten pretty much whoever he wanted out of that group of guys which still included plenty of 4 and 5 star players.
@DanR said in Bill Self the GOAT:
Bill Self is a footnote in the BIG like Bobby Knight is a footnote in the Big 12. Both guys would've been huge winners in either conference though if they coached a career there.
I don't know if you could build a basketball dynasty at Illinois with Chicago kids. Weird. It's not that far from Chicago, but it's a different planet. I don't think many of those players you mentioned would have wanted to play for Bill Self regardless of where he was coaching.
How many Chicago kids did Self get to KU? I have little doubt Self would've continued mining that Chicago to Illinois pipeline and turned Illinois into a power similar to what he's elevated KU to. At the end of the day, he is that good.
Nobody should be shocked by the officiating. Whenever Higgins does a KU road game, it's always close.
How does Fran not know Self doesn't foul in that situation by now?
@BeddieKU23 said in 2024 recruiting thread:
@jayballer67 said in 2024 recruiting thread:
@BeddieKU23 said in 2024 recruiting thread:
Yeah not expecting KU here. Elmarko scared him off
But this is a 20224 recruit
Yeah, Juan, Bobby and Elmarko at the PG spot for the next how many years? Not sure they have pushed for anyone at that spot given what they have. He's probably also looking for a starting spot among other things.
Is Dejuan gonna be here in 2024-25? He's a redshirt junior this year so doesn't that mean next season would be his final season here?
The officiating in our game was very inconsistent. Stretches of the game, each team was getting away with murder and other stretches, they calling every ticky tack thing. That makes it very difficult for players to get into a flow because they don't know what's going to be called and what's not.
Michigan got hosed twice on that drive they fumbled on the goal line because the refs moved the ball back a couple of yards from where that drive should've started after the interception.
TCU with probably the biggest win in school history upsetting Michigan in the Fiesta Bowl to advance to the National Championship game in a thriller.
@approxinfinity said in KU/Oklahoma St Game Thread:
I would argue with you about kevins block not being clean but app still sucks, couldnt rewind to check
It was a foul. The block itself was clean, but the body contact should've been called. These refs were just really inconsistent with what was or wasn't a foul throughout the game and that was really frustrating to me.
@Jethro said in Other games:
F'ing CBS. I have UT/OU coming up. Are you serious?
How, that game's on ESPN+, not CBS
Everyone seems to looking ahead to going down to Mass St. later tonight.
@wissox said in Desperate Moments...:
Let's see, when we go 18-0 will is it possible for the all the other teams to be 9-9? That will get everyone in I think.
And goodness yes, lets play a game. At least we had our super bowl the other night for a diversion.
If we go 18-0, best we could get is 8 others at 9-9 I believe. All 10 conference records would have to be .500 so if we went 18-0, 8 teams went 9-9, someone would have to go 0-18 and I'd be perfectly okay with KSU being that sacrificial lamb.
@nuleafjhawk said in Other games this week:
@jayballer67 I hope the Big 12 keeps sucking tomorrow.
I'd rather see the B12 go 1-1 tomorrow with the B12 winning the game in Phoenix.
@wissox said in BOWL THREAD:
Things I learned from whomever the color commentator was. KU receiver gets obviously interferred with and Mr. SEC announcer says it wasn't, kept going on and on.
When we scored in the last minute and we were down by two, he informed us KU is going to have to go for 2 here.
Other than the announcer, I had a miracle myself. I was at my daughters in Minnesota, new we wouldn't be able to make it home in time for the start of the game so I figured out how to record the game and had the foresight to record the next game for the inevitable game overlap.
The two turnovers were deadly. We win if Jalen doesn't make a really bad throw and the kick returner doesn't fumble.
Lance Liepold will have a statue someday.
Glad we're getting Jalon back. Hopefully we get a defense next year because our D was pourous.
Like others I was a little miffed by the last minute call. It was a bit strange to take it out of Jalon's hands.
Here's the thing with the last play, the play worked as designed as KU had a wide open receiver and Bean likely could've ran in himself. I also don't think it was a bad play call because Arkansas absolutely expected Daniels to keep it. We've also criticized the play calling being too conservative in key situations this season and that was definitely not a conservative play call with the game on the line.
@Kcmatt7 said in Other games:
Is Mizzou good?
I mean i knew UK would struggle because their best PG is Wheeler, but damn. Maybe they shouldn’t have shoo’d off Keion Brooks
Missouri also smoked Illinois. At this point, I think it'd be safe to say Missouri is probably an at-large team at this point.
Three biggest things for KU to work on during the off-season is limiting self inflicted mistakes, getting off to a quicker start, and most importantly, keep building the depth on defense.
That 5-6 minute stretch at the end of the 1st quarter is what absolutely killed KU tonight. Probably a 21 point swing during that stretch with the fumbled kickoff and first pick. KU was driving as Arkansas hadn't showed an ability to stop KU to that point so KU probably scores a TD on that drive.
@approxinfinity said in BOWL THREAD:
Bean didnt see 89 wide open. Great game
Bean could've ran in himself, so disappointing, but amazing comeback tonight.
I think KU fans are outnumbering Arkansas fans at least 5 to 1 from what I've seen around town at my hotel, the parade today, and the Suns/Grizzlies game tonight.
Too bad there aren't any KU players on either roster and Devin Booker is out injured. But I looking forward to seeing Ja Morant in person for the first time.
@Crimsonorblue22 said in BOWL THREAD:
@Texas-Hawk-10 did you hear they're cancelling some rooms due to lack of water? I guess it's due to so many frozen pipes bursting. Sounds like a huge problem. Matt Tait's room was cancelled. Some people were moved to other hotels. Hope you are good!
My hotel's good
@stoptheflop said in BOWL THREAD:
@Crimsonorblue22 said in BOWL THREAD:
Not a lot of fans at the Mizzou bowl.
I sure hope attendance is much better at our Liberty Bowl game than Missouri's bowl game yesterday. The attendance looked like a USFL game. The crowd was shown as 29,000, but looked much smaller in the 66,000 seat Raymond James stadium. It sure seems to me that enthusiasm for all these bowl games has really dropped. I haven't watched a whole game yet. I was really disappointed that Baylor played so poorly against Air Force after beating us so easily.
KU sold out their allotment of tickets and have been trying to secure more tickets. I expect there to be a big showing of KU fans in Memphis.
@DCHawker said in B12 Non-Conference Performance:
The non-conference schedule has mostly wrapped up. The B12 has again demonstrated that it is the best conference top to bottom. There are no bad teams, which is not something that any other conference can claim. All B12 teams are ranked in the top 52 on KenPom. Collective record at this point: 96-19 for a 83% winning percentage.
Having said that, without going back and comparing games from the past few years, my sense is that the B12 hasn't been quite as strong this year as in past years, but that is at the margins. I don't recall that any conference had any bad losses last year, but there are at least 3 this year - NW St., Sam Houston, and SIU (although all 1 point games). And, the B10 and SEC arguably have a better collection of really top tier wins, although the B12 does have a few. All B12 teams have at least one quality win, with the exceptions of TTU and OSU. And, 15 of the 19 losses would all qualify as "good" losses.
KU Quad 1 wins are Duke, Wisconsin, Mizzou and NC State. Best wins for others:
KSU - LSU
TCU - Iowa, Providence, Utah
UT - Gonzaga, Creighton (?)
WVU - FLA
Baylor - Gonzaga, UCLA
ISU - UNC, Villanova, St. John's
OU - FLA, Ole MissThe question is whether the B12 is as strong at the top this year? Is the SEC the strongest at the top - Alabama, Arkansas (at least without the injuries), Tennessee, Auburn, and Kentucky?
Right now, Sam Houston is ranked 20th in NET rankings so based on quadrants, they're considered a quality loss right now. Also, you missed Indiana as a quad 1 win for KU.
@approxinfinity said in Hudy at UConn:
I guess i missed this: https://uconnhuskies.com/staff-directory/andrea-hudy/2605 ↗
Went back after Shaka Smart got fired.
@Crimsonorblue22 said in KU vs Haaaarvard Game Thread:
Dec 28, liberty bowl? Anybody?
I'll be in the stadium so doubt I'll be on here much. Supposed to be mid 50's in Memphis that day so temperature should be nice.
@wissox said in KU vs Haaaarvard Game Thread:
@Jayblaze Is that our next game? If so, then yes, but I am keeping an eye on the playoff. Was thinking we'll be Liberty Bowling a few days before that though so maybe then?!
Liberty Bowl is on Wednesday the 28th.
@wissox said in KU vs Haaaarvard Game Thread:
For once I agree with Fran.
These refs have not been great tonight.
That's not gonna happen much for Dick
McCullar pissed at someone
@KirkIsMyHinrich said in KU vs Haaaarvard Game Thread:
He lowered his shoulder. I don't know about that
That should've been an offensive foul, but we've benefitted from a couple bad block/charge calls as well.
@benshawks08 said in KU vs Haaaarvard Game Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in KU vs Haaaarvard Game Thread:
This looks like a typical KU looking ahead to Christmas break performance. Been a fairly common occurrence over the years under Self. Just survive tonight and get ready for OSU next Saturday.
Think he turns up practice before break so the guys play tired this game?
Doubt it, more likely young kids looking forward to going home for Christmas and spending time with family. Performances like tonight have happened semi-regularly under Self.
This looks like a typical KU looking ahead to Christmas break performance. Been a fairly common occurrence over the years under Self. Just survive tonight and get ready for OSU next Saturday.
@Gorilla72 said in Other games:
Juwan Howard got into it at the UNC game last night, which UM lost. He yelled at his players after they pulled him away from screaming at a ref. Really?
I watched a bit of that game, the refs were not good. That was a physical game the refs were letting get out of control.
@rockchalkjayhawk said in Do you think of possibility of ?:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Do you think of possibility of ?:
Supposed to be 5 below at tip. Not worth it IMO.
Shoot, Most of us used to walk to campus in negative temps from our dorms. Suck it up, buttercups!
The issue is travel. Can Harvard safely get in and out of Lawrence to and from KC? Can KU's players safely get to KC to go home for Christmas? And most importantly in determining if the game gets played or not, can the fans safely get to and from AFH? The temperature itself isn't the issue, it's the other stuff the Artic front is bringing with it that's the issue. If it's whiteout conditions, does KU want people on the road that night for the game? And based on the timing of the temperatures, is there any ice accumulation as well? It's a situation where things are going to have to be monitored and decisions will have to be made for the safety of the players and fans and it may be necessary to call the game off.
@drgnslayr said in KU vs. The Indiana Hoosiers Saturday 11AM This is a BIG GAME!!!:
I question more why MJ isn't playing more.
Maybe he's having a struggle keeping up in practice. He is still relatively new on the floor. Maybe he's still not quite up to speed. Self mentioned he needs more PT!
This is why I don't understand why he didn't play today with Jalen having a terrible game. This was a perfect low risk situation to get Rice extended minutes against a quality opponent.
@drgnslayr said in KU vs. The Indiana Hoosiers Saturday 11AM This is a BIG GAME!!!:
I hear what you are saying... I think Self's strategy is to iron out a really tough starting 5 before expanding much bench time.
All our guys had fresh legs today and it was important to run our starters for much of the 40.
KJ is now our big that has the most experience and I feel sure he is plugged into all our practice offense with the starting 5.
In just a few games we are seeing how much more he is contributing... and it isn't that his personal skills have improved, but he is plugged into an offense. He now knows what he is supposed to do.
In most areas now, KJ is setting the expectation standard for the other bigs to learn from.
Just my opinion. I'm sure Self has his reasons!
I didn't really bring up KJ because I didn't have an issue there. My issue with the minutes today is Self didn't back up his own comments about using the bench more today. Jalen Wilson was bad today so I don't think he should've played 33 minutes today. Give the last 10 minutes of the game to Rice amd get him experience against a good team. That's where my issue is with today's game.
You also know as well as I do that Self's bench doesn't expand once B12 play starts, it contracts. With some of these games KU's going to have, Self needs to have options. In about a month, KU is going to have a 14 day stretch of KSU in Manhattan, TCU, Baylor in Waco, Kentucky in Lexington, and the second KSU game. That is a stretch KU will need the bench to produce quality minutes, and 2 guys playing off the bench isn't going to cut it during that stretch.
@Crimsonorblue22 said in Things just got worse for K/State in Bowl:
@mayjay I think if you lived here it might make a tiny bit of a difference. My really good ksu friends are nice. Others are not, not true friends. One guy actually told me he's happier if KU loses than if Ksu wins. No kidding! Kids at school bully me about me being a KU fan. They really out number me. I don't say much. I never ever go for them, but I don't say anything in front of anyone except family and here.
T-shirt fans tend to be the worst about being assholes about rivalries.
@Jethro said in KU vs. The Indiana Hoosiers Saturday 11AM This is a BIG GAME!!!:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in KU vs. The Indiana Hoosiers Saturday 11AM This is a BIG GAME!!!:
Wow, that was a helluva balanced performance by the Jayhawks today. Very impressive.
Juan with the show boat assist! Making me eat my words. nice.
One complaint (sorry): Cmon, Bill. Play the bench more. We're gonna need some of these guys at some point. I know 7 guys got 10+ minutes, but we need to season some of these players. We had plenty of margin to give them some run.
We needed to build the lead up as much as possible, and beat them as badly as we could. Our next 3 games should give us ample opportunity to expand our bench.
That lead was built up as it was over 15 most of the game. There wasn't a great reason to not give Rice some extended minutes today against a quality opponent, especially with Jalen struggling like he did today. And I'm going to disagree about the next three games being ample opportunity to play the bench more because there's only 1 more non-confernce game left before B12 play starts and OSU might be the worst team in the league, but how often do we see KU truly blow out and dominate B12 teams? Not as frequently as we'd like because of the familiarity these teams and coaches have with one another. And that 3rd game is a road game against a Texas Tech team that doesn't have a bad loss this year and is probably going to be in the NCAA Tournament. So I don't see KU getting to expand the bench much over the next 3 games, maybe Harvard, but I'm betting on it happening with OSU or Tech though.
And the Vikings win in OT to finish the biggest comeback in NFL history.
@stoptheflop said in KU vs. The Indiana Hoosiers Saturday 11AM This is a BIG GAME!!!:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in KU vs. The Indiana Hoosiers Saturday 11AM This is a BIG GAME!!!:
@drgnslayr said in KU vs. The Indiana Hoosiers Saturday 11AM This is a BIG GAME!!!:
Amazing how our 5-spot looks so good now that we are getting into a real offense. And for every play we run that finishes with a KJ dunk... he just gets that much more pumped up and kickin' arse!
Yes... we look fast and a big part of that is fast ball movement!
This team learns fast and the sky is the limit this year with this team! Might end up being even better than last year's team! Might...
Depth is still an issue as we basically only went 7 deep in a game that wasn't particularly close. Especially when the announcers were talking about Self developing the depth on the bench a bit and to not see it happen in a game that wasn't particularly close is concerning. Rice should've played some more today, especially with Wilson struggling with his shooting today and it would've been nice to see Yesufu get some more minutes today as well. It looks like the back up 5 spot is still going to be by committee based on match ups.
This would be my one gripe from the game today as this was KU's most complete game so far this season.
Bobby and Zuby got a bunch of minutes today. 21 bench pts is a big improvement.
That's my point, Self only went 7 deep in a blowout game after he talked about needing to use more guys and having a perfect opportunity to get Rice some decent minutes in a game where Jalen Wilson struggled. Outside of the first few minutes of the second half, this game was basically never within 15 points, so why didn't Rice and Yesufu get some minutes today? Only going 7 deep is going to catch up to KU later this season.
Not college basketball, but the Indianapolis Colts blew a 33 point lead in the second half to the Vikings and are now in OT.
@drgnslayr said in KU vs. The Indiana Hoosiers Saturday 11AM This is a BIG GAME!!!:
Amazing how our 5-spot looks so good now that we are getting into a real offense. And for every play we run that finishes with a KJ dunk... he just gets that much more pumped up and kickin' arse!
Yes... we look fast and a big part of that is fast ball movement!
This team learns fast and the sky is the limit this year with this team! Might end up being even better than last year's team! Might...
Depth is still an issue as we basically only went 7 deep in a game that wasn't particularly close. Especially when the announcers were talking about Self developing the depth on the bench a bit and to not see it happen in a game that wasn't particularly close is concerning. Rice should've played some more today, especially with Wilson struggling with his shooting today and it would've been nice to see Yesufu get some more minutes today as well. It looks like the back up 5 spot is still going to be by committee based on match ups.
This would be my one gripe from the game today as this was KU's most complete game so far this season.
@benshawks08 said in KU vs. The Indiana Hoosiers Saturday 11AM This is a BIG GAME!!!:
What a luxury to have two McDonald’s all Americans that can’t find the floor. I know we’d like more from them but importantly THEY know we need more from them if they want to even play.
3 McDonald's All-Americans.
@dylans said in Mike Leach:
@FarmerJayhawk I wanted Leach at KU then, but I didn’t think he wanted KU. Never heard any of the inside workings of the coaching hiring fiasco(s) of the time.
I believe KU didn't want him at the time because he was dismissed for similar reasons to Mangino and PR would've looked bad at the time for KU to hire Leach at the time.
@dylans said in Going to Memphis:
December 27th is a tough travel time (as in desire to travel). Hope the stadium gets packed!
KU's already sold out their allotment of tickets so the KU side at least should be packed.
@dylans said in Mike Leach:
MSU has no AD currently. I assume the defensive coordinator will coach their bowl game.
61 is awfully young to die of natural causes. Too sad. We all lost quite a character today!
He had a massive heart attack and had been dealing with pneumonia for a chunk of the season so it doesn't sound like he had been in great health recently.
Sadly, Mike Leach has passed away. That man was absolute national treasure. I understand why KU didn't pursue him in 2012, but I would've loved to have had him as coach here.
Put him on administrative leave while the legal process plays out, then make a decision based on the outcome of the facts gathered during the investigation, not the trial because he might get off easy with a plea deal.